Merrion Rumors

kencleary

Right so after 9th last night in the Fitz €270 I got a taxi home to Balbriggan. Unremarkable by itself, except the taxi driver does regular jobs for both the Fitz and the Merrion and he had a couple of interesting rumours. Normally I don't pay much heed to anything taxi drivers say but this guy insisted he had a little inside information - Namely that the Collossus (sp?) and the Jackpot are closing down and that the Merrion has been given 2/3 months to improve its profitability or it too will be shutting down. He claimed this information came from some staff at the Merrion who have all been put on 6 weeks notice of redundancy. The reason given being the loss in business to the Fitz. Can anyone lend any credence to these rumors?? Or care to just indulge in wild speculation?

**Wild Speculation**
Well I can imagine the profit margins on a casino in Dublin being pretty tight considering they make fu*k all really from tournaments and I gather the rake in cash games doesn't amount to much either. This leaves the games like Punto, Blackjack, Roulette where the house edge ensures they clean up on a regular basis. From this they have to subtract staff wages, rent & upkeep. I imagine the rent on a building in Merrion square is pretty substantial and the Fitz does seem to have attracted a large and growing patronage which aside from Boardies I imagine is canabalised from the Merrion. So its quite conceivable that the Merrion is in trouble which IMO is a bad thingtm. After all no competition could lead to less cool tournaments for us poker players and other house games occupying the floor space in the Fitz. Anyway enough rambling for one afternoon I think.

DeVore

I too have heard this rumour and apparently its source was from dealers etc in the Merrion. I find it hard to believe that a casino can *lose* money but all the same, I'm shocked at the appalling job all of them do of promoting themselves. I mean, Boards brings in what, 30-40 new players and I dont think we've ever seen anyone from the casinos come here and promote themselves or get feedback...

I hope it doesnt go, even though I dont play there much as it does create competition!

DeV.

Marq

Considering that on the Merrion Tuesday Night, the €100 euro freezeout which is their biggest tournament, they don't provide dealers to all the tables (one or two at most, and even then, intermittently), it's not surprising that they're losing business to the fitz. As far as I can tell, the Fitz seems to be on the up and up business wise: They're opening a new card-club / casino in Cork very soon (this is confirmed), and as of next month the Premises will be open from 4pm each day, with Sit'n'Go tournaments and other poker events. We hear time and time again, and it's true, that the casinos make nothing off the poker tournaments (even the big game, with it's 20 euro reg, only just covers the costs of providing dealers and a meal for everyone that attends). It is the gaming business that they get from poker players that brings in the cash, and facilitating Poker as much as possible contributes to this. The Merrion certainly does seem to be in trouble, which is a great pity, but they don't seem to be doing much to try and turn the tables. I've never seen the Merrion as packed as I see the fitz's gaming tables after one o clock, and their poker tournies are nowhere near as attractive anymore. For example, the sunday night ten euro multiple rebuy tournament, the prize-fund of which the Merrion doubled every week, has now been replaced by a 15 euro multiple rebuy tournament with no bonus in the prize-pool. This has very little appeal to those for whom the twenty-euro 2+1 in the fitz is their regular game, and has now been priced out of the range of most student types who played the tenner in regularly - 15 isn't a lot, but as the pre-big one free-roll in the fitz can stress, where rebuys are 15 as opposed to 10, with multiple rebuys you feel the difference in your pocket.

Obviously we come from a very much poker-orientated perspective, and gaming tables and their customer dynamics and demands are very different from this, but I've always just gotten an unwelcoming feeling in the Merrion, and I would imagine that this extends beyond just Poker. Not every card club can have Luke Ivory at the helm, but a friendly hello wouldn't go astray when you walk in the door.

It would be a terrible pity if the Merrion closed down, the more places to play poker in dublin the better, and I think the Fitz benefits from that competition, as do all of us.

MadsL

A few quick points:

1. Totally agree on the marketing thing - the Merrion was out in force at Toys for Big Boys 2 years ago, didn't see them at all last year. IIRC they didn't mention poker when they were handing out memberships.
2. Tables and chips need a good retirement home from the Merrion. Wobbly and Ughh respectively. Cash chips are also nicer at the Fitz.
3. Apart from that i can't really see how they can be so doing badly. 250,000 euro main media tournament, Betfair lounge, Mags is efficient and v.friendly (remembered my name anyway) > Wait service is great and the place itself is very comfortable.

My guess is that the asian customers have moved to the Fitz (possibly also Silks), and I would say that the loss of kind of money that now gets laid on the fitz roulette table every night has hurt them (I would say when it is busy possibly around 250 - 400 a spin!)

Maybe they need to bring in a few ideas from Vegas and start offering comps and other marketing incentives. My €2's worth anyway...

Monsa

Hi

I have been playing some poker (very amateur) for a while. I would like to join a poker school/club in Dublin, but can only find it in the Merrion/Fitz/Silks etc which I think might be too hard going for me (ie terribly serious players and serious cash!) Is this the case? If so, any ideas where I might be able to play a game once a week somewhere a bit more laid back and amatuer friendly?

Any ideas floating out there?

Cheers

TwoShedsJackson

Monsa wrote:

Hi

I have been playing some poker (very amateur) for a while. I would like to join a poker school/club in Dublin, but can only find it in the Merrion/Fitz/Silks etc which I think might be too hard going for me (ie terribly serious players and serious cash!) Is this the case? If so, any ideas where I might be able to play a game once a week somewhere a bit more laid back and amatuer friendly?

Any ideas floating out there?

Cheers

There are home games posted on here fairly regularly which are anything but serious (apart from the one there was nearly a punch-up at ) Get your name in for the next one of those that comes up.

Davey Devil

Thursday night at The Fitz 9pm, you can't get any less serious than that, it's a qualifier to win a place into the big end of month tournament that usually would cost you €270 to enter. It's a total crap shoot.

Corben Dallas

wouldnt suprise me if true, they've done nothing to try and even compete with the Fitz, (btw the Collosus club is a hole dont ever go there.(should have been closed down years ago.)

my beef with the Merrion is the touranment chips, the quality of the fitz is there for all to see and they really should as someone said give them a retirement. Was in their on Friday and didnt enjoy it same poor set up and didnt enjoy even more than 25 a throw hold em rate. they're even more expensive than the Fitz!!

Merrion just needs to put a bit more effort in, it would be a shame to see tehm go.

pokertroll

I have been reliably informed that there is absolutely no truth in these rumours whatsoever.

Taxi drivers, as we all know, are not the most reliable source of information so I decided to ask the merrion directly.

This is not the first time such rumours have been posted on this forum - is there a dirty tricks campaign in operation?

Surely it is in everybody's best interest to have 2 competing clubs in dublin.

Lets be honest, Poker is absolutely booming in Dublin at the moment. Take Sunday night, for example. There were 5 tables in the Fitz 20 Euro tourney (which I played) and an amazing 8 tables for the Merrion 15 Euro tourney. There was also a long list for the cash games in the Merrion.

Has one club got the capacity to handle this amount of regular players?

From what I saw on Sunday night, the Fitz struggles with 5 tables or more - I was playing poker on the Punto Banco table on Sunday night ffs

One of the more frequent complaints that I read about the Merrion on this forum is the lack of dealers. Generally I think the coverage is quite good (4-5 dealers)- about the same as the Fitz only the Merrion has more players - It was self-deal on the fifth table in the Fitz on Sunday night. Admittedly, there was a brief period where dealer coverage was less than adequate (forget about freerolls) but I think management have addressed this.

Anyway, enough of the scaremongering - we are lucky to have 2 great clubs in Dublin so support them both and enjoy your poker.

Juan Pablo

The place seemed dead to me last night. I was expecting at least one cash game to be in action last night but all there was going on was our sit and go. And why have they gotten rid of half of their gaming tables on the first floor? From experience I remember the Merrion being far far busier before than what it was last night.

Marq

And with crushing inevitablity, Pokertroll pops up to die-hardily defend the Merrion from its would-be detractors. Pokertroll, not a single person here has said that they want the merrion to close. In fact, as far as I can see, everyone is quite worried at the prospect that it might close. I play there the odd time, I like the club, and it would be a terrible shame if it were to close. I have it on good authority that some members of staff have been put on six weeks redundancy notice - nothing more than that. This doesn't mean the place is closing down, but it does show that there is some instability there. Having said that, I was pleased to see outside the Merrion last night an application for planning permission to extend it, so that would suggest to me that they have no intention of closing the place down.

This is not the first time such rumours have been posted on this forum - is there a dirty tricks campaign in operation?

No, not at all. I can't see where you're coming from there. I heard many people talking about this in work the other night, it's ridiculous to suggest anyone from this forum is making up these rumours, why would they?

From what I saw on Sunday night, the Fitz struggles with 5 tables or more - I was playing poker on the Punto Banco table on Sunday night ffs

I could be wrong, but AFAICR, if the punto table was used for the tournie, it was only briefly, as when we broke the fifth table was on Cash table 2, and yes, Oscar was dealing it (fair play to him). That's unfortunate, no argument there, but not earthshatteringly terrible now is it? As for struggling with 5 tables, one only has to look at the big game last thursday - 9 tables, each one with a dealer, the whole thing ran like clockwork.

Did get my friendly hello last night in the Merrion, perhaps the doorman was just having a bad day the last time I was in there

Pokertroll, your posts always strike me as aggressively over-defensive and Puritanical. Nobody here is trying to attack the Merrion, they are merely expressing an opinion on rumours that they have heard. Attacking the fitz certainly isn't going to bring people around to your way of thinking.

MrPudding

We were talking to Mags last night. To say she is not best pleased would be an understatement. Hopefully she will be coming on to boards later and will post something up. She has assured us that the rumours are just that, and there is no truth in them.

I don't think anyone wants to see the Merrion close. Whether you like it or not or whether you think some things need to be improved the city needs competing clubs.

MrP

pokertroll

Hi Marq,

Perhaps you should re-read my post, or any post that I have made for that matter. I am amused that some people automatically think that my defending of the Merrion is somehow an attack on the Fitz

Nowhere will you hear me attacking the Fitz - I play there a bit and really like the place. Nor will you hear me saying that people here want the Merrion to close. All I said was that there seems to be a stream of mis-information coming from somewhere. I am not implying that it is from somebody on this forum but there is obviously somebody coming up with this BS in the first place and I think it is unfair to the club. There was a similar thread quite recently where El Rifle posted some unsubstantiated claims about the place being closed for a couple of days etc

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=159662&page=2

Yes 'with crushing inevitablity', I do try to add a little balance to any discussions re one club versus other. You should notice that I didn't respond until I had facts. It saddens me that you think I am 'aggressively over-defensive and Puritanical'.

I appreciate that you work for the Fitz and maybe a touch sensitive to comments about having to self-deal and playing on the Punto-Banco table.
To be honest, self-deal doesn't bother me at all and the punto table is preferable to the round table that is wheeled in from time to time. I was just drawing a comparison with the Merrion whereby that type of situation occurs quite frequently with four or more tables and that I think 4-5 dealers is generally adequate coverage.

To Juan Pablo's comments re the place being dead on Monday night - I think it is fair to say that most of Dublin's tourney/cash players would play in the 100 Euro Fitz tourney on Monday nights. You will find that the opposite would be the case on Tuesday nights when the Grannies roll into the Fitz and the 100 Euro game is on in the Merrion.

Before I get any replies about the health of the BlackJack/Roulette business, let me state that I only proclaim to know a bit about the state of poker in both clubs.

Defender to the end,

Pokertroll.

huckleberry

[snip]

be careful - be very careful!

Hyzepher

pokertroll

But I've seen a few posts by that the idiot Pokertroll. I don't like the way he consistently sticks up for the Merrion by belittling players who play in the Fitz

I don't post here to please you, chuckleberry. Please give me an example of a post where I have belittled a player(s) from the Fitz. I think you are missing the point.

DeVore

I dont see HOW you could argue there are better players in one then the other when the clientele for both are drawn from the same group. With the exception of the freerolls or low stakes games, the players in both are very good and often greatly over lap. If you are playing the FR's for anything more then a laugh and a spin of the wheel to see if you win a ticket, you're nuts.

DeV.

huckleberry

Maybe I am missing the point Pokertroll why dont you explain it to me again.

pokertroll

No need - all you have to do is re-read my comments in this thread. I am still waiting for your examples of where I belittled the Fitz players. A bit dreamy today maybe?

huckleberry

Just wondering why you're such a staunch supporter of the merrion. The only time I see any posts from you is when somebody mentions something negative about the merrion. Then you seem very quick to reply. I play in both aswell I'm just wondering is their something Ive missed about the merrion ?

pokertroll

I support both clubs actually

The only time I see any posts from you is when somebody mentions something negative about the merrion

Yeah I don't post too much here - only when i think there is something that needs to be said. I have posted on a couple of other threads but not too much.

As for you, the only posts you have made so far have been about me.

Would you like me to post about other issues? Maybe I could send you on my bad beat stories for scrutiny.

Waylander

Huckleberry as you onlyu have 4 posts to your name all today, I'm thinking you are another user in a new account. If this is so why are you logging in under a different name? Are you aware you are acting like a twat? So far as I can see Poker Troll tries to add a bit of balance when the Merrion is being discussed, I cannot see why you would have a problem with that.

dubwhite

I heard Marion McCormick, the Merrion's Sales & Marketing Manager, had left the company recently. Any truth in that?

huckleberry

I didnt hear anything about Marion McCormick leaving the Merrion. Where the hell is Pokertroll, he is bound to know the ins and outs of any rumours effecting the merrion.

pokertroll

I wasn't aware they had a Sales and Marketing manager!
Hopefully her replacement will do a better job.

huckleberry

Pokertroll I'm just wondering do you have any ideas how the merrion casino might promote themselves better. If you do I would be very interested in hearing them.

DeVore

Both casinos could do a LOT more to promote themselves in my opinion. How many people have I dragged in there through this site but not once has something like a complimentary contest entry been offered or any approach made. Now, I could care less but they dont know that. If I were the Marketing Manager for either casino I'd be all over us to get the exposure.

The problem springs from the fact that they just dont make money from Poker tournies, even the cash games arent all that profitable. Stand by the roulette wheel or the BJ table for 10 minutes and watch more money go down the chute then the 20-in brings in in 6 hours.

They should run beginners games. Free with seats into the 20-in as prizes. Teach people the game during quiet time. Encourage them to bring their mates along (how many of us got into it through our mates?)

Leagues and weekly-results keep loyalty up.

Spice things up a bit, play some team games, change things around (like the Fitz are trying to at the moment). I mean, look at the group that has formed from here and what they are doing, we're regularly getting bigger crowds at our game then the casinos because we are listening to the players, flattening the structure, playing earlier, adding some fun things and having a bit of crack at the same time. I wouldnt say it will be long at all before we break the 100 mark!

Obviously corporate events are big business but despite the fact that I ran my own company and am responsible for sports and social activities (partly) in my current job, I've never seen anything from them about company nights out!

Anyway, enough free consultancy.

DeV.

pokertroll

Pokertroll I'm just wondering do you have any ideas how the merrion casino might promote themselves better

I agree with dev's comments.

There is lot of simple changes that they could make. I believe the Fitz is doing the right thing with the earlier opening hours, sit 'n go etc so the merrion should follow suit in this regard.

I am amazed how busy both clubs are considering how little marketing they do.

A couple of improvements they could make:

- Corporate events
- improve website - both always seems to contain outdated information
- Radio campaigns - Merrion did a lot of promotion during the WPC - last word, newstalk etc but they need to get more exposure
- Newspaper - In may, the Irish Times magazine had a front-page write up on the poker scene in Ireland but I have seen very little since. How about weekly/bi-weekly reports?
- handing out fliers/concessions in nearby pubs and clubs -

They could also reach out to surrounding towns etc. A couple of months ago, a busload of people came up from the north to play the Friday tournament. There were over 100 players. This type of package could be promoted more by the clubs.

They should also improve their tourneys. Look how popular the Fitz 250 game is. A weekly 200 game with feeder satellites would be very popular. This would attract the big spenders.

There would also be a lot of interest in head-up tournaments - league basis maybe.

As for Saturdays, time for both clubs to cop on. The merrion don't even run a tournament on Saturdays. I think a lot of people would play Saturday afternoons if there was a game.

careca

Some good ideas there alright pokertroll.

BTW there is a small and I mean small report each thurs in the herald giving results from both clubs. The only problem with it is they say how much each player wins. That can be a disaster when you've told her indoors a different (obviously smaller) amount

huckleberry

Ah I think your full of sh*t Pokertroll !

Davey Devil

Can somebody ban this muppet.

henbane

huckleberry wrote:

Ah I think your full of sh*t Pokertroll !

Constructive argument there.

DeVore

Huckleberry banned. He signed up with the email "bobbylemotta@hotmail.com" in case anyone is interested. Anyone know him?

DeV.

dropsy

Something else that either club could do to promote themselves might be some kind of loyalty programme aimed at the (presumably) money making side of the house. Maybe a points programme for spending money at the tables - points which could be converted into Poker Tourney entries etc. I know that in the U.S. Harrahs have some of the best Customer Loyalty programmes of any industry and their level of repeat business from customers is extremely good.

I know that in the Merrion at least (never been to the Fitz but I assume that their club structure means the same) they have a record of all customers that come in - seems a shame to have that kind of customer information and not at least try to use it to market the clubs better....maybe ask for permission to gather and use email addresses for a newsletter, inform of special offers etc.

Dropsy

Kelter

Personally if I were marketing manager I’d remove the tournaments, and make the cash games higher stakes. I don’t think the fitz make much off the punters on this website. They make it off the high rollers, who can be seen winching in their seats when the place is so hot and sweaty from the big cheap tournaments.

Also lets just look at what happens at the break. A bunch of tight fisted young fellas crowd around the black jack and roulette tables and discuss how stupid you would be to play on them.

When I plat black jack I play for €3 or €5. You have guys on the table playing for €25 or €50 a go. All I am is an annoyance to him and make him likely to leave.

Basically what I’m saying is that they actively shouldn’t encourage people who are interested in gimmicks your talking about

Waylander

Kelter wrote:

When I plat black jack I play for €3 or €5. You have guys on the table playing for €25 or €50 a go. All I am is an annoyance to him and make him likely to leave.

You shouldn't be so hard on yourself Kelter! I am sure soembody out there does not consider you to be an annoyance.

DeVore

How and when did the old-timer with a wallet stuffed with notes get addicted to BJ?

How and when did those high roller cash players learn to play NLH in the first place.

DeV.

Davey Devil

Kelter wrote:

Personally if I were marketing manager I’d remove the tournaments, and make the cash games higher stakes.

You wouldn't last long in the job, tournaments bring the punters in. Without them you'd just have the same old faces in the club every week.

henbane

DeVore wrote:

How and when did the old-timer with a wallet stuffed with notes get addicted to BJ?

How and when did those high roller cash players learn to play NLH in the first place.

I'd say it's highly likely a majority of the older players only came to the conclusion that serious gambling was a good past time once they had made their money. We are probably the first generation (in this country anyway) to want gambling which suits our meagre resources.

Fitz is busy trying to win hearts and minds and the merrion is catching up. I don't see either casino abandoning the younger crowd in an attempt to appeal exclusively to the well heeled players but Kelter raises an interesting point. At what point are you losing business by mixing your high rollers with your young poker enthusiasts? When does it cease to be profitable? What percentage of young players are likely to stay around in their later years when mortgages/families etc start to become priorities?

Spiritus

henbane wrote:

...when mortgages/families etc start to become priorities?

What are you talking about? With some careful budgeting these should never become priorities.

henbane

Spiritus wrote:

What are you talking about? With some careful budgeting these should never become priorities.

I'm talking about the normals with their responsibilities and ambitions and such.

Spiritus

Surely none of them are on Boards

dropsy

Kelter wrote:

Basically what I’m saying is that they actively shouldn’t encourage people who are interested in gimmicks your talking about

Casino's are just like any business - you need a mix of big customers - high rollers and small. It's next to impossible to survive long term with out both. In the US, the casino's all know that their poker rooms make a lot less money per sq metre than slots or tables but they still have poker rooms because they pul in people that might not otherwise be in a casino. They also locate them so that poker players have to walk past slots and tables to get to and from them - the Merrion recently moved poker tables 1 & 2 upstiars near the tables, presumably for the same reason.

Quite apart from the young poker players who may end up playing at the tables (and as I see it, the only time that you want to discourage small stakes players at the tables is if they are taking seats that higher rollers might play in - which is more of a space issue), what about trying to encourage young and older people who gamble in other ways - horses, football etc - the Betfair lounge in the Merrion is proably there for that reason. Point being, there is a large untapped market of gamblers out there, a lot of whom I bet don't even know about the Merrion and Fitz - surely the two clubs should be trying to attract and retain those kind of punters too. If poker is the way to get them into the club and some kind of loyalty programme is the way to get them coming back, then surely that is what the clubs should be doing?

DeVore

Remember during the week there are big games on (100 FO, 50/50 etc) its really only on Wed/Thurs that these crowds become an issue so they can have their cake and eat it. Ideally the merrion should be able to accomodate high rollers and beginners more easily given the compartmentalisation of the building.

In the states they separate the high rollers from the public and give them additional perks.

DeV.

Hyzepher

Spiritus wrote:

Surely none of them are on Boards

*ahem!!* cough!

Hyzepher

henbane

Hyzepher wrote:

*ahem!!* cough!

I think he just choked on his mortgage payment

Spiritus

I hope he prioritused it sensibly

Spiritus

My spelking!

mewso

It's interesting having returned from the US and Atlantic City to see the difference. For one thing poker is all over the TV. I was watching celebrity poker, WSOP poker (ESPN are showing the final table of every event from the WSOP 2004).
Walk into a poker room in any of the 5 or 6 big casinos and they are packed round the clock, 50-70 tables. Most of them are playing cash games and I imagine it's a situation where cash game rakes actually do make money for the casino.
I was in my element when I saw it. For my low budget I could sit at a 2/4 limit holdem game (SB=$1, BB=$2) and buy-in for $40.
The choice available is incredible in it's difference. 7 card stud/omaha high-low, limit/pot-limit/no-limit.
Now obviously the casinos in Dublin cannot match this kind of choice. It takes 50 tables plus and the customer basic would not be there. Having said that some kind of limit holdem or omaha would probably be quite popular.
I'm no expert on the realities of these casinos. Do you want to attract more players when you don't have the tables or the dealers to cope? Do you therefore want to add more space and tables, hire more dealers and risk not having the demand?
As far as getting the numbers in I think the Fitz got lucky. I'm absolutely convinced that boards.ie was the main spur in take-up on the thursday free-roll. You can even date it by looking at the Poker Links sticky. Before I posted that topic I had been at the thursday freeroll twice and both times no more than 20 turned up. Within 2 weeks of this forum opening the place was mobbed.
Besides boards I agree they both need to improve their websites. Neither site is kept up to date and I honestly think they do not see the importance of it. Alot of people not working in the web development area dont realise how hugely effective it can be to have a website that is up to date.
In fairness I actually found and visited the Fitz based on a web search. At the time I thought the web site looked dodgy and expected to be told that the tourney I was looking for was done away with. Instead I walked into a room at 8.30 and met Luke. The place was empty. How things have changed.