Asus AX800 XT vs Asus V9999 Ultra

.ak

vs

Okay, so I need a new 3d card, and these two boys look pretty tasty. The real kings of ATi's and Nvidia's new range. Now, for those of you who may thing the names are pretty unusual, that just Asus being all weird. The AX800 uses the Radeon X800 XT (R420) chipet whilst the V9999 uses the Nvidia 6800 Ultra chipset.

Now, I've read several 'x800 vs 6800' reviews, and they all vary, some say ATI beat Nvidia, and visa versa, most of the time the reviews are peppered with mixed benchmarks, but no two reviews put the overall winner as the same.

So I was wondering if anybody had any personal experience with this cards, and if somebody knows what I don't? I'm a loyal ATI fan, but the 6800 seems to be taking the lead...




Adam

L5

Why not go for a 6800GT? Its exactly the same as the ultra, except a lower clock rate, which can easily be clocked to Ultra or higher speeds for a lot less money

Creamy Goodness

you'll need a beast of a power supply to run the ultra if i can see correctly there are two power connectors on that card.

BloodBath

Well for starters I wouldn't go asus. Seriously overpriced all the time for a card that perfroms the same.

Both cards have a lot to offer. You can't really go wrong with either. They are pretty evenly matched although the 6800's have sm3 which will be put to use in the near future.

The driver set for the 6800's is still in the beta stages as well so they will improve a lot over the next few months. The x800xt's handle AA and AF better at high resolutions but the 6800's are not far behind. Opengl performance with the Nvidia cards is a lot better than with Ati. The Doom3 benchmarks demonstrate this well.

I'm still undecided on which to go for so i'm waiting another month or two. That's how close it is but the 6800's do seem to be improving more and i'd be edging towards the 6800 ultra.

HIS make great x800xt's. Better and cheaper than the Asus model. Look at the HIS Artic model.

You could also get a 6800gt and overclock it to ultra speeds. The vast majority of them will.

-edit- the 6800's only use slightly more power than an x800 which is only slightly more than a 9800xt. A lot of the models have one molex.


BloodBath

jesus_thats_gre

Originally posted by BloodBath


-edit- the 6800's only use slightly more power than an x800 which is only slightly more than a 9800xt. A lot of the models have one molex.


BloodBath

At that, Nvidea have stated that you will only need to use the second molex adaptor if you are overclocking...

Azza

Having an Asus card I would disagree with bloodbath to a point. Normally there more expensive but usually they preform marginally better at stock speeds. The real price hike with asus comes with the huge amount of software they throw in with. Having a an asus card myself its good quality but I don't use the extra software so I can't really claim ther the most cost effective by for me. A good brand just a tad expensive.

The HIS x800xt and x800 pro ice II will feature the artic cooler revision 4. But from what I'm reading the card still only overclocks about the same from a review of any its competitors but its still an excellent card manufacturer but there is yet no reviews of the asus x800 so can't directly compare them yet. Its way too early to say which card it better.


I think for pure overall all round performance the X800XT Platinum edition is the top preformer. The majority of the reviews I have seen give the overall advantage to ATI but no review has given any card a clean sweep. So a x800 will rock at Half Life 2 while a 6800 ultra will be awesome for doom III. Your not going go too far wrong either way.

.ak

I see. So, unlike the x800 pro, the 6800gt can overclock to a ultra? Can it extend past ultra speeds? and is it a good overclocker?

BloodBath

The x800pro's only have 12 pipelines. 4 of them have been severed but on some models they can be reconected with some conductive paint.

This is not guarenteed and is a tricky job as the area is tiny.

The 6800gt's have all 16 pipelines intact so it's just a case of raising the core and memory speeds and from the tests i've seen they will reach ultra speeds and higher. Of course every card is different but most of them will reach at least ultra speeds. The 6800gt is definetley a better card than the x800pro.

Having an Asus card I would disagree with bloodbath to a point. Normally there more expensive but usually they preform marginally better at stock speeds. The real price hike with asus comes with the huge amount of software they throw in with. Having a an asus card myself its good quality but I don't use the extra software so I can't really claim ther the most cost effective by for me. A good brand just a tad expensive.

You prove my point exactly. They come bundled with a load of software that you don't use. The margainal performance difference is what? . There should be no difference unless some of them are using crap memory. The cores are identical. 100 euro more for a the same card is overpriced when manufacturers like Sapphire and HIS offer quality products for a lot less.

Here are some benchmarks comparing 3 manufactueres including Asus.

http://www.bit-tech.net/review/325/6

If you go through the next few pages you will see that all the cards perform identically.

So a x800 will rock at Half Life 2 while a 6800 ultra will be awesome for doom III

There have been no benchmarks for HL2 yet so we don't know. Supposedly the ati's perfrom reasonably better but we will have to wait until some public benchmarks are done.





BloodBath

jesus_thats_gre

I remember being concerned as to what manufacturer to choose from when I buying my 9800 Pro.. Through reading many reviews and studying many benchmarks, I discovered that there is little difference between different manfacturers. I always wondered why Asus cards where more expensive and the only difference I could ever find was the bundled software or some tiny cable..

I went with Saphire and its ended up being a stormer of a performer...

The benchmarks Bloodbath has linked to for the X800 prove that the same applies to this generation of cards... The only decision now is what level card to get, oddly the same applied to the 9800 Pro and XT. Get the 6800GT and OC it to the Ultra speeds or get the X800pro and mod it to the XT whatever it is...

CombatCow

.ak i will give you some ''real results'' from games this week when i get my 6800ultra,Regarding the power issue for the 6800,they recommend a 400W psu,I would be surprised if anyone had lower than that in a good spec pc atm.:rolleyes:

Both cards according to benchmarks are fantastic,the differance is only a few frames in most cases...you wont de disappointed whatever one you get.

CC

Azza

Bloodbath a €100 euro is not the price Asus cost on average more than otherbrands. Your probably compaing it to the sapphaire cards who are usually the cheapest but at that its at most € 60 euro and compared to the other cards about €30-40. Thats what I have seen compaing alot of cards so your exgarating some what bloodbath with that €100 crap.

Having said that I won't be buying Asus again because I do think they are too expensive myself so I will be considering various cards. I'm thinking of getting a second system so I may end getting a 6800GT and X800XT if the price allows. I was reading an anandtech that here will be 6800gt and x800 pros going for around $ 300 so hopefully we will see similar prices here.

BloodBath

Woah calm down there Azza.

Right it's not 100 euro, they are actually more competitively priced than they used to be.

I remember when I was ordering my 9800xt that the asus model was nearly 100 euro more. It's about 60 now between them and the cheaper models like Sapphire who make some of the best cards.

Ati own the company Sapphire. Sapphire makes ati's own cards as well as their Sapphire brand and powercolors cards too.


BloodBath

Azza

Yes but did you not get your sapphaire card at on a special offer. How much is your card new now anyway?. The gap at the time of your purchase was on average around €50 euro dearer than sapphaires equivelent.

I'm not against sapphire in anyway but reviews I have seen show them down towards the bottom in performance and benchmarking (still very small gap) the preformance between various manufacturers is like 1%. There still excellent cards the sapphaires but there not the best in performance but there excellent value.

I see the Asus 9800xt is at €417. I assume the sapphiare one will be slightly lower.

duridian

I must say I think your anti-Asus ranting here is unwarranted too Bloodbath. Asus make quality parts and just cos Asus costs a bit more than the cheaper brands doesn't mean you aren't getting value for your money.

jesus_thats_gre

Originally posted by duridian
I must say I think your anti-Asus ranting here is unwarranted too Bloodbath. Asus make quality parts and just cos Asus costs a bit more than the cheaper brands doesn't mean you aren't getting value for your
money.

Unless he provided benchmarks to back up his argument.. Woops he did.... :dunno:

CivilServant

I've an x800 xt pe, and can play far cry @1600x1200 4aa + 8af with 40fps average. UT2004 with 1600x1200 4aa + 8af 80fps average. Image quality is amazing with the ati. You're getting value for money right off the bat, the improvement in current games is phenomenal. And this card can only grow stronger because it's cpu limited.

Time will tell how ati do with doom3, but I'm not going to be quaking in my boots. If counterstrike is your thing, then strongly consider an x800. CS-Source will be out shortly after HL2, which is meant to be debuting just as doom3 hits the retail market.

Benchmarks wise I get 12000 with a 2.5Ghz barton (3dmark03). 21700 ish with 3dmark01. Paired with an A64 it will really fly.

If noise is one of your pet hates, then the x800 is your friend. It's a lot more quiet than the ultra, which can be categorised as a jumbo taking off. Also the asus has a single slot cooling solution for the ultra which is really not enough, thus limited overclocks. It has a higher idle and load temperature when compared to dual slot cooling solutions from other manufacturers. Don't be seduced by the blue leds.

unkel

Originally posted by duridian
I must say I think your anti-Asus ranting here is unwarranted too Bloodbath

Eh? I don't see any ranting here and it looks to me that Bloodbath has put in some sound and well researched comments in this thread

.ak

Originally posted by CivilServant


Benchmarks wise I get 12000 with a 2.5Ghz barton (3dmark03). 21700 ish with 3dmark01. Paired with an A64 it will really fly.

Hrm, that's interesting. I've got an A64. I think maybe my deciding factor will be this: Can you OC the x800-xt by much? And the drivers coming out for it might tweak it a little, no? Are the x800 drivers still in the beta? Will there be softmod drivers?

-Adam

CivilServant

Haven't done much overclocking with it yet. Haven't needed to, every game is already magic with the stock settings. Currently using the 4.7 cats no probs. Softmod, to what?

duridian

Originally posted by jesus_thats_gre
Unless he provided benchmarks to back up his argument.. Woops he did.... :dunno:

Originally posted by unkel
Eh? I don't see any ranting here and it looks to me that Bloodbath has put in some sound and well researched comments in this thread

By HERE I mean the boards not this thread alone. This is not the first thread I have seen where Bloodbath has been slagging off Asus' pricing, which as far as I'm concerned is ranting. Here for example is another thread since you are sooo into hard evidence:
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&threadid=175511&perpage=20&pagenumber=2

Also I don't see how you think that a benchmark proves the basic argument made that the Asus card is €100 dearer than other brands(which is what I am criticising, in case you didn't understand:rolleyes: ), when a visit to a page such as this page on Komplett shows plainly that this is not the case. That makes about as much sense as prooving how much a motor car costs by showing its 0-60 time against that of another car. How would you mind telling me can you call that a "sound and well researched comment"??? And just for the record I have an MSI graphics card but that doesn't mean I will slag other brands of graphic card.

jesus_thats_gre

Originally posted by duridian
Also I don't see how you think that a benchmark proves the basic argument made that the Asus card is €100 dearer than other brands(which is what I am criticising, in case you didn't understand:rolleyes: ), when a visit to a page such as this page on Komplett shows plainly that this is not the case. That makes about as much sense as prooving how much a motor car costs by showing its 0-60 time against that of another car. How would you mind telling me can you call that a "sound and well researched comment"??? And just for the record I have an MSI graphics card but that doesn't mean I will slag other brands of graphic card.

Your argument would be valid if the sole purpose of a graphics card was not raw performance!! Think of it as a drag race!!

Azza

Whopps whats this the Asus X800 Pro is now €20-30 cheaper than sapphaires equivelent at overclock.co.uk

Since people ruled out advantages that one card had over the other just because they don't use them I can rule out having tv out as an advantage to Sapphaire.Since I don't use that Asus would be better value to me.

They actually have the stuff in stock at the moment.
They also have a MSI Geforce 6800 going for around €360 but its only the 128mb version.

duridian

Originally posted by jesus_thats_gre
Your argument would be valid if the sole purpose of a graphics card was not raw performance!! Think of it as a drag race!!

And your argument would be valid if the Asus was in fact €100 dearer which it is not. I'm not claiming anything about performance, I'm talking about pricing. You are so caught up in your benchmarks that you aren't even listening to what I am saying.
Showing that the card does not perform much faster does not prove that it costs €100 more.
It doesn't make a difference, even if the other cards were a million times faster than the Asus that would not change the fact that Bloodbath's wild claim that the pricing of the card was €100 dearer than other cards was wrong and unresearched.
Now that I see what Azza has just posted it makes even more of a joke of the kind of Asus bashing posted earlier in this thread.

BloodBath

Yes but did you not get your sapphaire card at on a special offer. How much is your card new now anyway?. The gap at the time of your purchase was on average around €50 euro dearer than sapphaires equivelent.

No I didn't get it on special offer. When I ordered it was 420 euro from Jes-computer. The Asus model at the time was just over 500.

I'm not against sapphire in anyway but reviews I have seen show them down towards the bottom in performance and benchmarking (still very small gap) the preformance between various manufacturers is like 1%. There still excellent cards the sapphaires but there not the best in performance but there excellent value.

This is the whole point of my thread. The view from many people that manufacturers like Sapphire are inferior to Asus. There is no performance difference. Get over it. Any 1% difference can be put down to margain of error as no benchmark score or frame rates will be identical every time.

I must say I think your anti-Asus ranting here is unwarranted too Bloodbath. Asus make quality parts and just cos Asus costs a bit more than the cheaper brands doesn't mean you aren't getting value for your money.

Your missing the point. I never said Asus were not a good manufacturer. I said they were overpriced. I don't want a load of crap software that I will never use. All I want is the card. I'd buy a lite card normally but the 9800xt had a HL2 voucher so that's the only reason I went with retail.

By HERE I mean the boards not this thread alone. This is not the first thread I have seen where Bloodbath has been slagging off Asus' pricing, which as far as I'm concerned is ranting. Here for example is another thread since you are sooo into hard evidence:

I'm entitled to my opinion. They are overpriced for a product that performs the same.

Also I don't see how you think that a benchmark proves the basic argument made that the Asus card is €100 dearer than other brands(which is what I am criticising, in case you didn't understand ), when a visit to a page such as this page on Komplett shows plainly that this is not the case.

Eh I think I already covered that in a previous post but it's still 70 euro difference between the Sapphire pro and the Asus pro. The cards cost a **** load already. I know i'd sooner save that money for something else.

Whopps whats this the Asus X800 Pro is now €20-30 cheaper than sapphaires equivelent at overclock.co.uk

I looked at the site and the Sapphires were cheaper. Kompletts prices are cheaper overall so why buy from there unless stock is a problem.

So the price difference is 70 euro on the pro's and 30 euro on the xt's.

BloodBath