new ipod the way forward?

Woden

Friend will be soon in the market for an mp3 player.

i have an ipod myself but i got it cheap when i signed up for eircom broadband. while i love the thing i found i wouldn't necessarily recommend it to another person forking out a load of money for reasons associated with battery life and price and capacity.

however i've been looking around with my friend now and we see the 4G ipod which for 340euro which now has 20Gb capacity and the battery has been increased to 12 hours.

so baring this in mind would people now recommend the ipod over similarly priced mp3 players from creative and iriver?

cheers

data

cormie

iRiver IHP series is still the best and until something comes out that actually is better than it, I will stick by my statement.

Your friend should buy the iRiver. It may not look as good as the ipod but it has been rewarded the best reviews by pc magazines over iPod and other players.

The cheapest place to get it is here

Just for your information, the iRiver was still voted the best player even though it doesn't yet have such features as on the fly playlists, gapless playback and more things other players may have.

These features should be released in firmware within a month so iRiver will be miles ahead of the competition when it is released.

Rew

I have a 60 gig Zen Xtra and Id swap for a 40 gig iPod any day. The new iPods are smaller with longer battery lives and better software all round a deadly bit of kit...

Pacifico

Oh great another iPod vs iRiver thread :ninja:

Edit:

I have a 60 gig Zen Xtra and Id swap for a 40 gig iPod any day. The new iPods are smaller with longer battery lives and better software all round a deadly bit of kit...

:eek:

Davey Devil

I recommend the iRiver, I have one and it's the business. Most reviews by tech journalists prefer the iRiver, just do a quick google and read a few. The only area the iPod seems to come out on top is fashion. Since I listen to music and don't look at it - the iRiver seems the most logical choice. Not that the iRiver is ugly by any stretch, it certaintly looks much better with the naked eye, than some of the pictures I've seen. Here's some helpful links,

Cheapest place I've found for the 40 gig and 20 gig iRivers (40 gig currently out of stock but back in beginning of Aug. :

http://www.mx2.co.uk/acatalog/MX2_co_uk_MP3_Players_50.html

Review:

http://gear.ign.com/articles/457/457818p1.html?fromint=1

Makaveli

Originally posted by Rew
I have a 60 gig Zen Xtra and Id swap for a 40 gig iPod any day. The new iPods are smaller with longer battery lives and better software all round a deadly bit of kit...

I have a 30gb Zen Xtra and I'd never swap it for a 40gb iPod.
2 hours extra playtime isn't that much and who listens to music for 12 hours straight?

Granted iTunes is better than Mediasource but I use Notmad Explorer which is imo better than iTunes.

Woden

aye it looks like it will turn into that alright

thanks for the speedy replies btw what is it that makes it better than an ipod apart from the radio feature and ability to support OGG neither of which will be of interest to my friend?

is the sound quality much better or something?

Pacifico

Originally posted by Dataisgod
aye it looks like it will turn into that alright

thanks for the speedy replies btw what is it that makes it better than an ipod apart from the radio feature and ability to support OGG neither of which will be of interest to my friend?

is the sound quality much better or something?

From what ive heard its better in every way.....iriver owners are indeed passionate about "their" product!

Anyway, The battery life and price are the major differences. As said above the software is nowhere near as good as iTunes.

I'm happy with my iPod anyway

Rew

Originally posted by Makaveli
I have a 30gb Zen Xtra and I'd never swap it for a 40gb iPod.
2 hours extra playtime isn't that much and who listens to music for 12 hours straight?

Granted iTunes is better than Mediasource but I use Notmad Explorer which is imo better than iTunes.

Feels like a brick compared to the ipod. Its that liitle bit too big, and thats compared to the old ipod the new one slightly smaller again.

My girlfriend will have a 4g 20 gig ipod this week so will be able to compare better then...

Pacifico

Originally posted by Rew

My girlfriend will have a 4g 20 gig ipod this week so will be able to compare better then...

Are they out already? They only anounced them last week :eek:

Davey Devil

Originally posted by Axel
Anyway, The battery life and price are the major differences. As said above the software is nowhere near as good as iTunes.

iRiver doesn't need any software although you can use it. Personally I don't feel the need, I just use the root folder structure from the PC, and just drag and drop the music in.

segadreamcast

Originally posted by Dataisgod
aye it looks like it will turn into that alright

thanks for the speedy replies btw what is it that makes it better than an ipod apart from the radio feature and ability to support OGG neither of which will be of interest to my friend?

is the sound quality much better or something?

Soun quality depends hugely on the quality of the music file itself and the earphones - not really on the unit at all - so any arguments on either side of this are BS AFAIK (?).

Put it this way - which of the following is your friend more influenced by:

Society and popularity/fashion or technology magazines.

Basically, that's what it comes down to. If your friend wants instant gratification upon entering a room and people noticing (s)he owns an ipod - then get that. However, if (s)he wants to get an iriver and then try to explain why it is better than an ipod to an indifferent public (who will still buy the ipod in their millions anyway) - then get the iriver.

Rew

Are they out already? They only anounced them last week

http://www.apple.com/ie/

Yup. She had a mini ordered (would be delived first week of Agust) but eith the price drops she cancled the order and went with the 20gb one. Free laser engraving on the back atm as well.

Woden

Originally posted by Axel

Anyway, The battery life and price are the major differences. As said above the software is nowhere near as good as iTunes.

I'm happy with my iPod anyway

well the new ipod seems to address those issues its similary priced to the ih120 and the battery life of the new ipod has been addressed.

the ih120 however for the same price comes with remote control earphones and a leather case i believe which the ipod doesn't.

so i need something more than better in everyway .

i like the ipods ease of use myself, but if there was a major difference in sound quality.....

cormie

Sound quality has been proven to be better. You also get a nice lcd remote control with the iRiver. Very handy for cycling or other uses. Better battery life. More user friendly (just plug into computer and you have an external hard drive, use it for anything you would a normal hard drive) it has optical ports, recorder (I recorded a Counting Crows gig with it, pitty it was in the point!) and also the price. If you were to buy an iPod, besides the fact it is dearer, if you were to buy all the things to make it have as many features as the iRiver, you would be spending a helluva lot more. This would also bulk up the unit making the iRiver easier to carry around.

I can't agree with Davey Devil more. I bought it for the music. If you're friend is into music and doesn't want it so he will look cool, then go with iRiver.

Also, even though you wont really need it as it has 16hr battery life, you can buy an external battery pack in maplin electronics for about €5 incase you ever run out of juice. The same thing will cost about €30-40 to be compatible with iPod.

Shrimp

CLICK HERE

H300 Series, With color display and High Speed USB On The Go, takes the Hard-drive MP3players to a new level.

This latest marvel from I-River not only gives you all the advantages of a small sized large capacity multi format MP3 player, but you can also use it's colour screen to display your photos - not only that - but it is the first portable hard drive player which can act as a USB master device, meaning that you can plug in your digital camera and transfer your photos onto it.

segadreamcast

Originally posted by cormie
Sound quality has been proven to be better.

Where? Sound quality is negligible when you're going to be uploading 128kbps MP3 files to both units anyway. But please, show me where this is 'proven'.

GET THIS!!!

Jesus, are you Iriver fans earning commission or something?

cormie

I've read many sources stating iRiver is better sound quality. There are allot of people who know allot of things on the iRiver forums. I don't know too much about the different DB levels and frequency and all that malarky but they do. With the same mp3 file iRiver will sound better as far as I know.

Woden

@youssef the h300 series is out of my friends price range as he has a limit around 350euro nice piece though it is.

@cormie i use my ipod very easily as an external hdd you just plug it in as well and it shows up as a removable drive i think you may have to click on something to do this when you just set it up iirc but thats about it.

@noel rock i'm thinking along your lines of sound quality as well as it will mainly be 128kbps files or perhaps some ripped at 320kbps and that the player might not make much difference but perhaps the head phone might?

Rew

You wont hear the diferance so its pretty academic...

cormie

This series is nice indeed however it is pretty expensive at present. The USB On the Go function could come in very handy but for me I just need it for music so the IHP-140 would be my choice unless the H300 drops in price a bit.

Shrimp

Jesus, are you Iriver zealots earning commission or something?

I meant it to be read like i was saying "get a load of this"

Makaveli

Originally posted by Rew
Feels like a brick compared to the ipod. Its that liitle bit too big, and thats compared to the old ipod the new one slightly smaller again.

That's down to personal taste I suppose. My mate has a 3g iPod. With the Zen out of it's pouch it's only slightly larger than the iPod and they weigh pretty much the same.
I don't even think the iPod is that stylish. That track dial on the front is a pain in the ass, and with no buttons on the side you still have to take it out of its pouch to change songs.

segadreamcast

Well youssef...ever consider joining the salesman industry ?

Rew

Originally posted by Dataisgod

....the player might not make much difference but perhaps the head phone might?

I bought new Sony headphones for my Zen made a huge diferance over the **** they give you. I used to listen to sons at 20/25 vol, with the new headphones I listen at 14/25 vol.

cormie

I thought you need to install software on a pc for it to recognise the iPod? With the iRiver you can just plug it into any pc and take or give files.

iRiver also has a handy TEXT viewer. you can view text files on the screen.

Pacifico

Originally posted by cormie
Sound quality has been proven to be better. You also get a nice lcd remote control with the iRiver. Very handy for cycling or other uses. Better battery life. More user friendly (just plug into computer and you have an external hard drive, use it for anything you would a normal hard drive) it has optical ports, recorder (I recorded a Counting Crows gig with it, pitty it was in the point!) and also the price. If you were to buy an iPod, besides the fact it is dearer, if you were to buy all the things to make it have as many features as the iRiver, you would be spending a helluva lot more. This would also bulk up the unit making the iRiver easier to carry around.

I can't agree with Davey Devil more. I bought it for the music. If you're friend is into music and doesn't want it so he will look cool, then go with iRiver.

Also, even though you wont really need it as it has 16hr battery life, you can buy an external battery pack in maplin electronics for about €5 incase you ever run out of juice. The same thing will cost about €30-40 to be compatible with iPod.

1)Proven? Ok, where? How?
2)LCD remote. Ok
3) Hard drive. the iPod is an external HD without the need of drivers.
4) Theses "extra features" that bulk it up are what? A radio and Optical inputs! they should hire some better engineers!
5) The size/Weight of the iPod is a major selling point along with its "cool" factor.

Edit: "Sources" what's that mean? You read it on iRiver fourms?

Edit No. 2: iPod has this .TXT viewer aswell.

Rew

Originally posted by Makaveli
That's down to personal taste I suppose. My mate has a 3g iPod. With the Zen out of it's pouch it's only slightly larger than the iPod and they weigh pretty much the same.
I don't even think the iPod is that stylish. That track dial on the front is a pain in the ass, and with no buttons on the side you still have to take it out of its pouch to change songs.

Yeah iv compared em directly before but its that little bit extra on all sides that makes it too big.

Woden

ok lads thanks very much again for the speedy replies

i set up this thread thinking i'd get back to my friend tomorrow it some information, however we've been here watching the debate roar.

i think he has enough information on both sides to reach a decision when he gets the cash together

more opinions of course welcome

cheers

data

Makaveli

The 60gig Zen is €415 on komplett at the moment.
That's a pretty good price.
So just some more food for thought.

http://www.komplett.ie/k/ki.asp?sku=122310

Raskolnikov

Originally posted by Axel
1)Proven? Ok, where? How?

Even my ancient Creative Zen had better sound quality than the iPod and that was comparing it with the same hearphones and same mp3's! It was only marginal, my friend with the iPod didn't notice any difference though

My opinion on the current batch of HD based players.

iPod, smallest and most stylish player with an intuitive interface. It's the McDonalds of mp3 players, not necessarily the best but it's a good preformer and branded well.

Creative Zen, no-frills iPod wannabe! It's cheap and cheerful and has a few advantages over the iPod. Suits casual users who want to get on the mp3 ladder for cheap.

iRiver, the challenger to iPod supremacy, loaded with features and extras that the iPod can only dream of, not so simple or stylish though, appeals to the techies.

L5

can open................worms everywhere.........

cormie

By bulk I mean it would bulk up the ipod to have compareable features to IHP.

You would need this , this and.. this

This adds an extra £100+ to the price.

I can't find the accessorie to get the radio so that will add another bit. So It's going to add bulk and price for less features still.

maxheadroom

When / If I get myself a hard drive based player, its going to be a rio karma (link forums )...

Davey Devil

I think a big factor is the battery. iPod uses Lithium-Ion and iRiver has a far superior Lithium Polymer battery. Not only does this mean that playback is longer with the iRiver 16hr+ vs 12 hrs(questionable, haven't seen any independent tests yet - someone may care to unlighten me on this), the iRivers battery expectancy is alot longer.

Ipod Battery

A Replacement costs $99, plus $6.95 shipping. The total program cost is $105.95 per unit. If your iPod is personalized, your service will take approximately two to three weeks from the date we receive your iPod for service to the date you receive your replacement iPod.

iRiver

Can be replaced at the cost of €39.99, and under normal use the battery can be expected to last 4-5 years. How long does the iPod's last, well that's anyones guess. Stories of them buring out in under a year and half are common enough. So not only can the iRivers battery perform about double duration of the iPod's but the IRiver's battery is also more than half the price to replace.

Which company is ripping off its customers? I don't think I need to tell you. I'll be listening to my music for alot longer while I watch you fashion victims walking past following the sheep.

Tusky

Originally posted by Axel
1)Proven? Ok, where? How?
2)LCD remote. Ok
3) Hard drive. the iPod is an external HD without the need of drivers.
4) Theses "extra features" that bulk it up are what? A radio and Optical inputs! they should hire some better engineers!
5) The size/Weight of the iPod is a major selling point along with its "cool" factor.

Edit: "Sources" what's that mean? You read it on iRiver fourms?

Edit No. 2: iPod has this .TXT viewer aswell.

the size weight of the ipod is very slightly smaller/lighter than iriver , there isnt much difference.

I got an iriver 140 and it broken in the post ! Im awaiting a replacement.

Raskolnikov

Originally posted by Davey Devil
I'll be listening to my music for alot longer while I watch you fashion victims walking past following the sheep.

Not unless they buy another iPod?

daveirl

This post has been deleted.

Creamy Goodness

data if you friend can get him to buy the ipod 4th gen in america

the 40gig is $399 which works out around €320

that's if he still want to stick with the ipod.

Woden

he seems to be leaning towards the iriver when i left him today, but i won't be in the states until november and he's planning on getting it out of his birthday money in september so he doesn't want to wait

he's not big on needing capacity either, just his 64mb muvo is feeling the strain

pyrogenx

Personally i don't need that much space just for music. Im happy with my 128meg usb player, especially because of its size. The smaller the handier and 40 tunes is well enough, since that they can be changed within a minute.

OfflerCrocGod

iRiver Vs iPod - meet the winner. For a cheaper version look around .

OfflerCrocGod

I just had to add this by the way *points finger at iPod 12 HOURS HAHAHA:D

cormie

Here is the proof you were looking for.

The following images represent a test done by a Finnish computer magazine MikroBitti in their summer 2004 number, where they reviewed some HD-based portable music players:



Those are the measured frequency responses of the players. They also measured the frequency responses of the other four or five players in that review. (iRiver won)




The player mentioned above is supposed to be really good also. For me, I would not buy it as I need LCD display on the unit itself.

segadreamcast

Yet they used the second generation of ipod for some reason...in a review in summer 2004? When we're on the fourth generation of ipod? Oops...

cormie

Well I'm sure not much has changed in the frequency responses. I copied that from another forum maybe he meant to say 2003? I don't know.

segadreamcast

Maybe. Or maybe that was all they had to hand.

Regardless, most sound files wouldn't be that far down the frequency scale AFAIK (?) - and generation four ipod improves in that regard anyway I'm led to believe, so I think the graphs, whilst proving a point, aren't as relevant now as they were a year ago.

Irrespective - I still believe iRiver is simply a poor mans iPod. The name says it all - imitator, not innovator .

cormie

iRiver has been around longer than iPOD. iRiver is the company. IHP is the product (iRiver Hard driver Player it probably stands for) or as they are now known H.

"a poor mans ipod"

If the ipod was worth the extra money, I would have bought it. Even with them both being approx the same price now, I would still buy the H. There is no doubt it is better.

It's not like I ended up with the iRiver by chance and I'm trying to make myself feel better about it. I researched which of these to buy for about 5 months before buying. It's allot of money to me so I wanted to be sure I was getting the best. I am sure I have the best. The only thing better about the iPod are its looks. I do think the H looks more serious though and I like that.

segadreamcast

People still refer to it as the iriver though... but yes, I was wrong on that count.

By poor mans I didn't - in any way - mean it was the inferior choice due to being cheaper. I meant that in the public domain, it simply comes a distant second to the ubiquitous iPod.

Much like you, I too am certain I have the upper hand because of the superior software, aesthetic appeal and unrivalled third-party support for the product.

cormie

Public domain? That's not why I bought a music player though. I bought a music player to listen to music. If that's what your worried about though, the H will impress the public when you say "like the iPod... but better" It will kinda give the stranger riding into town on a horse appeal... all the ladies will be fanning themselves in the tavern doors whilst Big Jim who owns the towns only diamond mill draws up the Jack of hearts.

Superior software? H doesn't need software.
Aesthetic appeal? Ok but it will be in your pocket most of the time... you could get a t-shirt with an ipod on it and text that says "it's in my pocket, look at me!"... although you will have to take it out of your pocket to navigate properly.. you can just use the H remote.
Third party support? This is a good way to replace the crappy pouch they give you... to get a radio, to get a remote, to get a voice recorder.. but this is gonna cost you more big bucks. Although ipod owners seem to have money to burn already so it's no big problem. I say this because they obviously haven't researched choice of products before spending about €500 avg. on a product.

Stephen

you can't let a single ipod thread exist without droning on and on about the iriver can you?
I've had an iriver player in the past but I bought an ipod - i love it.