Are we too promiscuous?

villain_97

There can almost be no doubt that the our generation is a very promiscuous one.Not wishing to be controversial or boring I just feel I have to point out the dangers of this on our society.

I have just spent the last week consoling my little brother.After spending months prepairing for,and months spending money on his grad,his date ends up with 3 other guys on the night of his grad.He hardly was with her during the night though she tried it on with him after she had been with the other 3.My brother is quite old-fashioned and moralistic and shunned her advances after her earlier carry on.He claims she hadn't much drink on her but saw the grad invitation as a chance to ''let herself go''.My brothers feelings didn't come into it at all,she was quite brazen about the affair.

Apart from the obvious risk of increased unwanted pregnancy and stds,I think there are other dangers facing our system as a result of the dropping of standards.People like my 17year old brother who are slightly un-prepared for this harsh world,face being cut adrift and being abandoned.People who long for a fullfilling emotional relationship are in the same boat as are those who want to love and wish to be loved.I am convinced that the reason for the high rate of depression,and high number of suicide and attempted suicide is linked in some way to the promiscuous,selfish,self-centred, uncaring society we have constructed.people become isolated or get hurt so badly that they are scarred for life.

The frustration is added to the fact that like minded people have no-where to go to find each other.Clubland is no place to find somebody like yourself.dating in Ireland involves getting twisted drunk in clubs and pulling as many attractive members of the opposite sex as possible.Is it any wonder society is collapsing?How are people supposed to find ''the one'' and live a fullfilling enjoyable life?We need to provide a new environment for singles.We need a new outlet for them to meet up in that doesn't involve booze and choosing based on looks alone.Those people cut-adrift deserve a lifeline.The question is how do we do it??

Zulu

find a hobby

Beruthiel

I believe this is more suited to Humanities
B

ballooba

Can we ever be promiscuous enough? (BTW country girls are easier than dubs, fact)

The Corinthian

Originally posted by ballooba
BTW country girls are easier than dubs, fact

No, they just tend to have their own places rather than live with their parents from a younger age.

ballooba

Originally posted by The Corinthian
No, they just tend to have their own places rather than live with their parents from a younger age.

touché my good man. (or however you spell it)

Beruthiel

you should write a book TC

Third_Echelon

I was just saying to a friend last night that I was thinking of writing a book on a similar sort of subject...

ballooba

I'm not this shallow .

But do all lads figure out after about year and a half (I'm a slow learner) that Dub birds are a waste of time.

JohnnyBravo

Nope i think they are great

BaZmO*

Originally posted by ballooba
I'm not this shallow .

But do all lads figure out after about year and a half (I'm a slow learner) that Dub birds are a waste of time.

What do you mean by "a waste of time"??

seamus

Originally posted by The Corinthian
No, they just tend to have their own places rather than live with their parents from a younger age.

Indeed. The vast majority of Dublin girls I know still hang around in the parental home until married. Even those who leave home (and say go to college in London, or down the country), will eventually return to live in the home once their course/contract/etc is over.
Once they do get married, they'll kick and scream and pout until their boyfriend/fiance/husband agrees to buy a house close to the parental home, although this is becoming less common now due to obvious financial differences between a first time buyer and a well-established homeowner. I still know plenty of girls who would prefer to live in a pokey 2-bed apartment 5 minutes from their parent's house, than pay a similar amount of money in a less...um...posh area, for a 4-bed 30 minutes from the parental home.
It's this neediness of their parents that makes them less easy, since they constantly feel (subconsciously) under the control or within the circle of their parents, and as such still feel like they're bound to some extent by what their parents would feel.

Country girls however are more used to moving out in order to secure better employment and better men than toothless Sean from down the road. Once moved out, they obviously no longer have a subconscious need to conform to their parent's ideals, and are freer to develop and explore their own.

(In general)

My 2c.

The Corinthian

Originally posted by ballooba
But do all lads figure out after about year and a half (I'm a slow learner) that Dub birds are a waste of time.

Under 25, one could argue that country girls tend to be easier, in so far as they tend to have their own apartments (and are additionally rebelling against a stereotypically conservative upbringing) and that (coming from small towns) are often easier to impress.

However, there’s little difference between a 30-year-old country girl and Dubliner other than accent. Both will most likely be living away from home, experienced and in the case of Dublin Southside girls probably have the same provincial Catholicism taught to them from an early age - as, let’s face it, most Southsiders are just first generation bog-hoppers anyway.

So while one may find country girls easier, that hardly means that Dublin girls are a waste of time. It just means that they’re less likely to be gullible at an earlier age. As such, I suggest you polish up your act if you want to keep catching their attention in ten years time

As to the original poster, I think you’re looking too much at promiscuity as the cause when it is in fact a symptom of the problem. People are not getting drunk, having fights, becoming more selfish because of promiscuity, but because of the individualistic nature of modern liberal Capitalism - the individual is a better consumer than the family (which is now billed as an oppressive mechanism to oppress individual rights).

And as for your brother, I recommend that he learn to become more aggressive and less old-fashioned. No man can ignore Darwinism and unfortunately old-fashioned is all too often a term used to mask the word obsolete.

DadaKopf

The Irish sociologist Tom Inglis (UCD) wrote a book called Lessons in Irish Sexuality on this very topic. Villain _97, you might find it interesting. It's probably a little hard to find but was published by UCD Press and would probably be in most academic bookshops or from UCD press itself.

Anyway, that wan sounds like a tart.

lee_baby_simms

I've always found that when it lights go off and the action gets hot, ladies from the country seem to have more of an axe to grind. Plus they never get the wrong end of the stick in the morning.

Sleepy

So we're more promiscuous than previous generations? I think not tbh, just look at the babyboomers of the states, the hedonism of the 80's.

I don't think we're any more, or less, promiscuous than previous generations, we're just bitter, cynical and greedy.

fragile

Originally posted by villain_97
....Is it any wonder society is collapsing?

Is it? can you give an example please!

I think society in Ireland is the best it has ever been. People are freely making decisions for themselves about life, love, sex, marriage etc.. without the influence of the church. The majority of people are liberated, independent and perfectly capable of enjoying themselves while also living a responsible and fufilling life.

I would certainly rather live in the society that Ireland currently has than in any other time in the past.

These are the good old days, enjoy it while you can!

Fingers

I know 1 or 2 girls like this, if i was him i wouldn't worry about it, she's just a slut, maybe she was abused as a child, etc.

alleepally

Originally posted by fragile
Is it? can you give an example please!

I think society in Ireland is the best it has ever been. People are freely making decisions for themselves about life, love, sex, marriage etc.. without the influence of the church. The majority of people are liberated, independent and perfectly capable of enjoying themselves while also living a responsible and fufilling life.

I would certainly rather live in the society that Ireland currently has than in any other time in the past.

These are the good old days, enjoy it while you can!

Bullsh1t. Talk to anyone over the age of 55 or 60 and they'll tell you that they had much happier times AND funnily enough, any that I have spoken to aren't walking around with an axe to grind about "the church" . Main reason was that they weren't ABC1'd and marketed to and told they must have this or that product. They were simple times .

These are the good old days?

hmm... Why is there so many self help groups out there. more people seek counselling than ever before. Suicide on the increase. Binge drinking, street crime, teen rape on the increase etc etc., more people feeling disconnected?

Do you read or listen to any of the reports in the media?

Was watching the repeat of Des Bishops programme last night. There was a guy from a country in Africa who was working in Superquinn. THe only place he found any connection or community was in the local church. It's a force for good for many people despite the knockers like yourself who probably consider themselves very liberal and right on, except when it comes to "the church"

seamus

Originally posted by alleepally
Bullsh1t. Talk to anyone over the age of 55 or 60 and they'll tell you that they had much happier times AND funnily enough, any that I have spoken to aren't walking around with an axe to grind about "the church".

Funny that you'd quote Des Bishop below, and not think about that. We all think the past was great. Hindsight may be 20/20, but it's funny how we forget about the bad things. When you're 20, it was great being a teenager, and none of your responsibilities, and bills to pay. When you're 30, it was great being 20, when you had no kids and no house. When you're 40, it was great being 30, etc. It does change a little, but both my parents are over 55, and they've no doubt - we have a much better life than they did. They're certainly much happier than they used to be, and we're much happier than they were at our age.

hmm... Why is there so many self help groups out there. more people seek counselling than ever before. Suicide on the increase. Binge drinking, street crime, teen rape on the increase etc etc., more people feeling disconnected?

Some of those are partly because of increased uncovering of such issues, and others are symptoms of modern life. If you think that teen rape, drunken violence and suicide didn't occur 50 years ago, you're sorely mistaken. There are plenty of bad things from 50 years ago which are on the decrease now or are non-existent - Systemic abuse of power by Gardai, sexual assualt in prisons & schools, women being "blessed" and cleaned out by Priests, young single mothers being virtual outcasts, devoid of support. That's the nature of society. We remove one evil, and another takes its place. It's constantly evolving and changing. Which is why there are other problems in society today which didn't exist 50 years ago, or were certainly very rare. To say the world is any more evil than it was before is taking a very narrow view of the world as a whole.

Was watching the repeat of Des Bishops programme last night. There was a guy from a country in Africa who was working in Superquinn. THe only place he found any connection or community was in the local church. It's a force for good for many people despite the knockers like yourself who probably consider themselves very liberal and right on, except when it comes to "the church"

You'd probably label me as someone with a grudge against "the church". I would have exactly the same sentiments as Des Bishop last night - I have no interest in religion whatsoever, screw sins and all that bull****, but what was taking place in that church was just phenomenal. People just enjoying life, coming together, praising life - that's religion! Religion at it's purest should simply strive to unite people in enjoyment of life, any beliefs in Gods, common moral goals, are just a tool to attempt to create that unity.

fragile

Alleepally, Seamus put it better than I could, anything I could say would just be repeating what he has already said.

And no, I do not have an axe to grind with the church per-se, I do however feel that the church has its place and that in the past it had way too much power in Ireland, and that this power was abused, causing needless suffering.

Oh, and I have asked people in the 50-60 age group which times were better, and all of them agree, that working, raising children, growing up etc., is much easier now.

alleepally

Do I have to go and get a happiness index poll or something to prove a point? I don't believe that lifestyle gurus or life coaches were de riguer in times past. There was no "self help" industry. How can that be a measure of a happier society?

I'm well aware there are issues and ills in every generation but it really, seriously irks me that "the church", and more specifically the Roman Catholic Church gets dragged in and battered in such discourses.

And on your thoughts about the church below, I fully agree with you and amazingly enough, it is quite possible to hold those views and find the same community and vibrancy in the Catholic church too. What spurred my response is the niggardly attitude and constant dredging of the past.

seamus

Originally posted by alleepally
Do I have to go and get a happiness index poll or something to prove a point? I don't believe that lifestyle gurus or life coaches were de riguer in times past. There was no "self help" industry. How can that be a measure of a happier society?

How can that be a measure of happiness? Society has changed, but the people are still the same. The Self Help industry is once again a manufactured component of modern life. It doesn't indicate that people are less happy. It's something that can be sold to people. Who's anyone to say that if the same things were marketed just as aggressively 50 years ago, people wouldn't have bought it? Human nature never changes. Marketing has exploded in the last twenty years, to exploit human nature. What you're saying is a bit like saying that 100 years ago we didn't have computers because we didn't need them.

I'm well aware there are issues and ills in every generation but it really, seriously irks me that "the church", and more specifically the Roman Catholic Church gets dragged in and battered in such discourses.

Well, the church was the major player in Ireland over the last 100 years, and to be fair, we probably wouldn't be an independent Republic if it hadn't bothered. It has its fair share of abuses too though, and can be blamed for many of the more conservative laws and taboos imposed on a new Irish society which is dying to free itself of these restrictions.
It's like anything else really. There are still thousands of people around the country who hate the current-day English people because of what happened many years before they were born. People hold grudges, that's the way we are. Many people bear grudges against today's church for what its predecessors did. The difference is that today's church is slow or refusing to admit its wrongs, and very resistant to change to stop these happening again, and to serve modern society better. Denying an action ever occured is almost as bad as allowing it to happen again.

And on your thoughts about the church below, I fully agree with you and amazingly enough, it is quite possible to hold those views and find the same community and vibrancy in the Catholic church too. What spurred my response is the niggardly attitude and constant dredging of the past.

As I touched on above, dredging up the past may seem unfair, but it does serve a very useful purpose. As for finding vibrancy in the Catholic Church, well, we'll have to agree to disagree on that one . To be clear, I have great respect for quite a lot of clergy. Many of them are truley nice people, who do good work. My problem is with the administration. Too many chiefs, not enough indians.

uberwolf

Originally posted by fragile
Oh, and I have asked people in the 50-60 age group which times were better, and all of them agree, that working, raising children, growing up etc., is much easier now.

And we'll be saying the same thing in 30 years time ourselves,
/Grandpa simpson voice
I remember, nineteen dickety two it was, times were tough then, not like today... etc / Grandpa simpson voice

The leaving, my finals, all easier in reterospect. I've no doubt I'll find the same is true of parenting and other challenges I'll face

villain_97

I do agree with the people who say my brother needs to toughen up a bit,but he is only 17 and has spent hundreds on his grad,planned it meticulously just to see the girl he liked show her respect by doing that.He is devestated and I'm sure he's not the only one.He is heartbroken and for once I feel for him.

We live in harsh times.Our way of life may be easier and our individual freedoms enhanced but there is something missing.Talking to people who grew up in the 50s,you wouldn't recognise the youth they experienced.Community spirit,togetherness and fun were all in evidence.They basically were not judged and expected to meet a certain criteria.They had values which held the nuts and bolts of society together and relationships were allowed blosson more naturally.People got to know each other,men wooed women.Now its complete bedlem.Relationships are all about sex not emotions.People do not care who they walk all over so long as THEY get what THEY want.People don't communicate like they used to because of work and when they go out they cannot talk because of alcohol and drugs.People are incapable of expressing themselves.They are cought up in a cycle that renders them robots.People know more about their due than their duty.

People say the Church was a scourge and that life in the past was a scourge.For 2000 years the church provided a way of life for people and ideals that I feel were noble.Ok there were amny wrongs with the past and the church's influence,but it stood the test of time.This is in contrast to the social experiment we are currently involved in.This is untested and it shows.After thousands of years of living by certain values we are ''liberating'' ourselves.Do we know that the future will be better for this liberation?Who knows,we'll have to see.The change we are undergoing is cosmic,if it goes wrong the results could be catastrophic.

I drink but don't take drugs.the week-end should be about communicating with pals,instead I watch my friends get stoned off their eyeballs after getting pissed of buckfast (my pals still think they're teenagers).People cannot be happy if they're feelings are being supressed.

Just to end,a man I know went to Bulgaria a few months ago to adopt a child.He had to stay their for 6weeks.He said it was like Ireland 50 years ago.He said the people had nothing but were far far happier than those in Ireland.A simple life is satisfying.Life today is complicated hence we are unfullfilled and see sex,booze and drugs as a false escape.

BlitzKrieg

while i cannot agree with your viewpoint that the past was a happier life (i bend towards same world different problems) i do agree there is something missing on the social level in many young people today.

Your brother sounds familer to alot of friends i have and they seem to be going through similar problems with their lives and i personnally draw the line at what is considered a 'social' life in the western world (not just ireland) niether the modern bar (not a pub now a BAR) nor the nightclubs are places of socializing, in fact i could draw the line that they can be among the most unemotional, animalistic places in the world. People tend to either stay in groups of friends they know (Claiming couches with their coats and securing that said coach for the entire night) or you get frenzied attempts to impress the opposite sex with dancing drinking etc. NOW i'm not saying this is all bad and boo hiss. BUT i ask you have you ever thought pass the physical attraction in the night club and how often have you ended up with a semi-long term relationship. Rarely in my and my friends experiance. There is a lack in the modern world a place to sprout a successful relationship more akin to what the original poster is thinking of. Our inspirations, romantic films and novels tend to have chance meetings in parks etc. But in real life people tend to pass off more as stalkers or other unsavory characters in those situations. The best places seem to be work places, school and college. But that also leads to problems of friends becoming lovers with all the worries that if said relationship failed what about friendship? There does in the end seem to be a lack of a constant place where to meet new people on a social level. The best situations tend to be events which are not constant, festivals concerts house parties so on can be good.


And for those asking why only now, they had clubs in 60s etc.:

They are not the same as the tightly packed nightclubs of today whose main focus is the dancefloor which is where 80% of the interaction occurs. also its kinda difficult to catch someones name in those same nightclubs.



but thats only my 2 cent.

Sleepy

Technology and societel changes have given us more time alone.

We're far better educated and I dare say smarter than we once were.

Time Alone + Intelligence => introspection

introspection => depression

IMHO at least.

A question for you though: how often do you see a stupid person depressed?

And how many of the smartest people you know do (occasionaly) get depressed?

simu

introspection => depression

Not necessarily. I'm quite introspective but don't get depressed.

I don't take anything all that seriously because oblivion is just around the corner.

villain_97

Thank you Blitzrieg for understanding my viewpoint.You have pretty much expressed my feelings.bars and nightclubs nowadays are designed purely to make money of the fact that people feel they need drink.A guy I know who worked in a pub,won't say where,said the reason bars are full of loud music is so people won't be able to chat and will end up drinking more.

Itis my belief that a new generation of forgotten batchelors is currently being created as a result of our societal situation.People are with noble aspirations about life and settling down are being abandoned-thrown on the scrap-heep.Will can people find their soul-mate?

last year 10,000 of our people attempted suicide.This is a problem.I doubt that such a number would have attempted it in the 'simple' days of the past.More and more people are being cut adrift as friends are eroded by drugs and the possibility of love diminishes.More and more people are being hurt by partner's infidelity.Sicide is a tragic symptom of the cancer gripping society today.

To those who dismiss the people of the past as being stupid,these are the people who managed to survive despite living in a world of little.These people had self disipline and were able to find life partners by woo-ing.They couldn't hide in a club and hope.The ingenuity of these people brought us to the world of plenty we have today.The shame is what we have done with our inheritance.

BlitzKrieg

while i appreciate your complement. I feel the problem is slowly beginning to address itself,

spurred on by the overshadow of the smoking ban pubs and clubs are forcing themselves to be appealing for more reasons then just dancing and drinking this makes the problem more of an economical situation where if one is wise would invest in ideas to make a more social orianted service in the cities and towns (for example in new york the rise of the cafe as a social point, of course media encouraged it with shows like friends)

outside ireland i have seen clubs attempt to make themselves more varied and appealing, most of the clubs in studant areas like cambridge are divided between a traditional club area and the sound proof social areas. One club is split into 4 distinct area's including a casino, the problem with that club though is that each area is horrendisaly small and leads to messy overcrowding like cattle.


Other variations, long since considered...nerdy, such as online chat services etc are becoming more popular, so a large percentage of your bachalors are ending up there, wether you feel they should go to such levels or not.



on your term of 'simple days of past' can you please give me a rough date your thinking of. Cause i cant really think of a simple time in irish history in the last 100 years. I mean War of independence, Civil war (affected everyone), The 'Emergency' The problems in the north flooding down here, the large amounts of unemployment and emmigration. I cant find anything simple there. And though you can argue some of those problems are too big, trust me they hit the normal 'simple' people quite alot.


On your notions of suicide *sigh* i cant really give you a defitnite answer. There are so many diverse reasons for suicide from medical, psychological to social to drugs and so on as you have named a few. You can argue that many of today's modern teachings indirectly encourage suicide while in the past in a very Hobbes (not the board member) viewpoint the average person was'nt allowed to commit suicide. Today we have the scary notion of personal freedom, which in desperate times can be very misleading.



Yes I did state something was missing in today's world but it will slowly heal itself over and if it doesnt people need to teach themselves to patch over the problems. I like nightclubs, but thats not where i meet new and interesting people and i tend to do that by diversing myself through events in college around my home town and in dublin and thats how i meet new people, my friends who i mentioned in a earlier post dont have this diversity i have because they feel trapped in the small town we are all from and this is where the lack of a social place in such a small town leads to problems experianced by them and i assume in some roundabout way by your brother. Thats not to say every person with this problem come from a small town, it can appear anywhere a person feels trapped (not literally but in choice).


i'm rambling and losing train of thought so i'll shut up.

villain_97

I'm glad you understand my quite ''all over the place'' view.I like clubs myself but just feel they are only a place to go after a massive piss up in order to get off with rather than get to know members of the opposite sex.You cannot communicate in them.The other draw is the music.

Part of the problem is our culture.We drink.I'd love to see cafe bars springing up across the country.They have such potential to make people happy as communication is the essence of well-being.However I don't think there is a market for such an establisment in Ireland.Too many people are afriad of being different.The idea of going out for a cappucino rather than a session would be too different.The idea of meeting people of the opposite sex while sober would be a strange concept to many,regretably,even the people who in theory should find it advantageous.

The past has been anything but simple in terms of international events.When I say simple times I mean when the pace of life was slower.When we had communities not sprawling housing estates.When men had to pluck up the courage to bring a girl to a dance or ask a girl for a dance.The context in which I used the term was mis-understood. I mean the times when people were people and people had values.The reason those tough times such as the tan war,the civil war and the emergency were survived was because of the ingenuity,bravery and community spirit of the people.Would todays 'breed' of human pull together in such ways?Would we survive on basic rations?Would we be capable of sacrifice?I doubt it when we cannot even refrain from ditching those who invite us to grads,and run off with somebody else.People now have no self-discipline.You'd think that a girl could ,for one bloody night,show her appreciation by not giving herself to another guy.My brother is fairly good-looking,lots of admirers,but fairly conservative.I just wonder.Does it say much for our education system that after finishing school,people cannot behave like civilised disiplined adults??

impr0v

Originally posted by simu
I'm quite introspective but don't get depressed.

I don't take anything all that seriously because oblivion is just around the corner.

BRILLIANT!!!

impr0v

Is the issue here not the increasing parity between the sexes when it comes to promiscuity, rather than an increasingly promiscuous society per se? Would it be all that unusual for a guy to score three girls at an occasion such as this? The act would still be selfish, but would it warrant such levels of condemnation?

You mention guys wooing girls back in the good old days, do you feel threatened by the increased sexual liberation of women, and the changing roles of the sexes in society? The disenfranchisment of the male in modern society is a recurring theme in recent (male-authored) literature, and is a well documented phenomenon, rather than something to be ashamed of.

It seems somewhat sensationalist and self-important to use the actions of one girl to tar society with, and if you were shouldn't the question have been 'are we too selfish?' It seems to me that your brother made an unwise choice in his date for the grad and deserves to take responsibility for that choice, or at least to learn something from it and move on.

In my opinion rose-tinted talk of the good old days is a pointless endeavour, given how you can't bring them back, and the tendancy of memory to be selective. Progress inevitably brings some new challenges with it, one either adapts or gets walked on by those who are in the process of adapting. In my opinion Irish society is infinitely better than it was in the good old days of comely maidens dancing at the cross-roads. To me the existence of self-help groups in society is less evidence of a growing malaise in society than evidence of a healthy demand for them. Previously people had to turn to the church, the very definition of a self-help group, or to keep quiet about their problems. To admit a personal problem or to seek help for it was to volunteer oneself for the role of pariah in ye olde irish society, you can't honestly bemoan the passing of those days.

The vagaries of the irish, sponsored by diageo, 'dating' system are well documented. Either change the system or refuse to subscribe to it if you feel it needs to change and once enough people agree with you, commercial and/or societal pressures will force the system to adapt.

Kell

Originally posted by impr0v
The disenfranchisment of the male in modern society is a recurring theme in recent (male-authored) literature, and is a well documented phenomenon, rather than something to be ashamed of.

It is also one of the cited reasons for the increase in male suicide in the mid teen to early twenties age bracket. I can see how the rise to power of the feminine influence on the Irish landscape can cause young blokes to wonder what the fúck their role is when the parameters keep changing. Now I am not saying that women should go backwards to pre-suffragette days as the female parity movement must be accepted in order for us to develop as a nation.

However, another thing that I have noticed on the flipside of females becoming "empowered" if you want to call it that, is the decreasing number of women in the early thirties age bracket with little sparkley rings on their wedding fingers along with gold ones. I am not making out that marriage is the be all and end all of everything, however lack of stability and an absence of a long standing committed relationship can be a contributary factor in female suicide, and generally is. Female equality (in the hunter gatherer sense) can be a turn off to some blokes and in a way a cause for the absence of what I am told a huge amount of women really want "romance". (I do not know what women truly want, nor will I as I am male).

Another increasing trend that should be looked at in terms of nightclubs and promiscuity (yes, I do think we are a bit promiscuous) is the fact that the sub twenty age bracket and indeed into the mid twenties, communicate with eachother almost entirely by text message (evidence to be found on PI's). It is not surprising then that when they visit nightclubs they havnt a clue what to talk about and invariably end up getting twisted and laid. Conversation was at one point an art, which has been replaced by an almost arcade like game of texting. I will never forget being in a friends house and four out of the seven people in the room were texting eachother rather than talking to eachother, and no they were not talking about the other three.

Maybe the original poster should have posted "have we lost the ability to talk to eachother without alchohal and has this lead to increased promiscuity?" I say we have become a tad desposable with our regard for sex and I base this on the fact that I would personally not feel comfortable if I knew that my partner had shagged half the country and I doubt any other poster would either.

K-

impr0v

Originally posted by Kell
I will never forget being in a friends house and four out of the seven people in the room were texting each other rather than talking to each other...

Frightening.

gom

Have a read of "Promiscities" by Naomi Wolf(The ARch-Feminist)

Its a good book that shows how promiscous behaviour is liberating for woman and for the unaccpeting male it is a bit of a bind...

All in all. I think that your take on promiscuous women/men as a cause for concern in society is unfounded. Your little brother simply was not very in touch with the social reality of modern ireland. If you go out with a girl for a night she isn't bound to you because you paid for her or anything as such. That is what prostitution is for. What she did was intensly rude, selfish and sluty but she does have free will and did not break any laws.

She betrayed your brother so why should he trust her again. On the other hand if it losses the ability to put any trust in another woman again he needs serious help and you can't blame some random bird he took a fancy to. He must find fault in his own personal social ideals. And then perhaps blame your parents for bringing him up with too many morals that were not formed from experience but inherited from his da no doubt

villain_97

Our da considers himself Liberal!!We weren't wrapped up in cotton wool or anything,at least not the older ones in the family.My brother is the youngest by 5 years.perhaps that is a part of his problem.However I don't go along witht he whole idea we shouldjust accept lower standards because thats the way things are going etc eyc.And no,I'm not pointing her out as an example.The guys who she was with are equally to blame,in fact more so for taking advantage of her drunken state.And don't make out like the issue here is what my brother paid,the fact is his feelings were hurt cuz he liked her.Gom that is what is worrying me.I'm afriad he will never trust women again.He is an angry young man at the moment which is why I posted this in the first place.

You have to admit the signals women give out are very difficult to decode.I'm not sexist but its a reality.I'm all for equality and feel its about time women are considered to equal to men.They are gifted in so many ways men are not.However this should not come at the expense of men.We also have rights.

I stand my original argument that promiscuity is not good.In the long term it could prove disasterous.As already mentioned by Kell we no longer communicate.As a result relationships are less and less about love and emotional fulfillment but about sexual pleasure.So the main benefit of a relationship is one's own pleasure.Inevitably people become bored and cheat because that same emotional attachment that once (in the good aul days) charecterised relationships is gone.

STDs are on the increase whether we like it or not.Think of the abuse of trust in society.How does the girl lying in bed with HIV feel about the trust she had in her partner?What did her partner care more about his duty or his due?We thought we were more responsible regarding safe sex but we are not.Our secondary schools provide no basic learning regarding social issues.Our teenagers ,who are obviously raising the bar of promiscuity even higher, ar having un-protected sex.The consequences could prove frightening.

The paternity of children can no longer be guarenteed.Call me old fashioned but that cannot be a positive development.I suppose you thought in-breeding was confined to the history books,but lets face it will our grand-children be able to trust that we behaved ourselves enough to be sure the girl they're dating is not a sister??Wait, I can just sense the anger towards me welling up so will stop.But don't discount these possibilities no matter how far fetched they or looney I sound.

My take on the whole grad thing and my bruv is that its a fairly damning indictment of our education system that after 5 years of secondary education our ''young adults'' cannot behave a little more civilised for just one night.Our education system is flawed if people are not given guidance on how to live.What matters more?How equiped we are to earn money or how equiped we are to lead our lives.Once we have that education we can make infomred decisions on how we want to live our lives.

JohnnyBravo

Whos to say in our modern world with our modern ideas
All i know is a man can only live to the morals and standards he sets himself so that he can wake up in the morning and look at himself and be proud of the reflection staring back
Telling someone to lower their standards because that is the way the social ladder is going is ignorant and weak minded
Not everyone is the same
Some people have high morals standards etc some do not
Dont compromise yourself to be part of the social scene

Georgiana

A few thoughts for villain 97

Its a harsh old world and there are loads and loads of pressures of all kinds. This has always been the case in every society. Young people of seventeen, of both sexes, face enormous pressures, risks and dangers of being hurt in all kinds of ways. I think they always have, but the sort of situations you describe are the particular pressures of our own environment in 2004. Getting through that is easier with understanding and support and your young brother is lucky to have you on his side. Also, getting through the pressures of early life is part of the process of maturing. So it more or less has to happen. Hopefully significant risk can be avoided, but getting hurt by members of the opposite sex is par for the course in the maturing process. Its unfortunate your brother had such a bad experience with this girl on an important night, but nobody died. I generally agree with your assessment of how things are in relation to young people's behaviour etc. However, anyone who wishes can spend their time engaged in sport, the arts or any other more uplifting pursuits than drinking etc. If your brother is the kind of guy you say, he would be best trying to meet a girl who suits him through an activity he enjoys. Call me old fashioned if you will. I'm a hell of a lot older than 17!!

villain_97

I agree Georgiana.Thats what i've been saying to him.The only problem is his favourite hobby is Gaelic Football!I've been telling him that when he goes to Uni he'l join a society where he can meet like minded girls.However,I think it's gunna be a while before he trusts women.He says he's gunna use women cuz thats all women do to men!I think he will get over it,Dunno if this new couldn't give a sh1t attitude is the way to do it.

As you say nobody died,but for a few days after his grad,he acted as though somebody had.It's difficult to convey those sentiments to a guy who is in despair.

I wouldn't call you old fashioned!I'm glad other people understand what I'm on about.As you say,it's easy to be labelled old fashioned.I think modern like is wonderful,I'm just unsure of certain side-effects.

I hope you're right and that this will be a major learning curve.However I hope the lesson he has learned hasn't embittered him towards women.

Zombrex

Hold on a minute.

There are two completely different issues that are getting very confused here, cheating and promiscouity.

You and your brother need to have a serious think about what exactly this girl did "wrong"

Was your brother "going out" with this girl? Did he feel she was cheating on him. If that was the case, then surely he would have been just upset if she had shagged only 1 guy at the party.

All this talk about this girl being promiscuous, and about promiscuous society is a deflection of guilt to an issue that isn't relevent. The event you and your brother should find objectionable is the fact she cheated on him, not that she was with 7 guys. If she was with seven guys but wasn't cheating on him, then that would be fine.

She certainly sounds promiscuous, but why is that upsetting your brother? It is not the issue that he should blame her for.

I am saying this because it is very easy to let the resentment and anger your brother (justifiably) feels towards this girl rest on an issue (promiscuity) he shouldn't actually be angry about. This could effect future relationships with women. What if he meets a nice girl, who has fooled around a bit in the past, but is serious about him. Would his miss-placed resentment towards the idea of promiscuity, effect his feelings towards future girls.

Iago

we're not getting more promiscious, as was mentioned by a previous poster it's just that the sexes are catching up with each other here in Ireland, as Ireland is catching up with the world in terms of sexual freedom.

People are more likely to try different things before settling down with one person and dedicating themselves to them. Again as mentioned by a previous poster I'm simply talking about promiscuity as opposed to infidelity, which is a topic all it's own.

I think that people should be free to do whatever they want, with whoever they want as long as they aren't hurting anyone else, and for their own good health that they are being safe.

Promiscuity is subjective, for some people having had 5 sexual partners is promiscious for others having 20 is, dpeends on who you are and what your situation is, the people who only want to have one partner will still find that person and people who want multiple experiences first will find that as well.

At the end of the day the world is diverse enough to cater for everyone's ideal, and all you have to do is find someone with the same ideals as you

villain_97

Exactly what I told my brother,said he'd find somebody in college.I know she didn't do anything wrong but all the same it can't be good that people are so promiscuous.I doubt safe sex is a thought when people are that drunk or stoned.I feel that if we are to accept the new era of very ''free love'' then we must have more sex education,social studies etc in school.I'm all for people having a good time,my main concern is people's safety and frankly i think many people are not responsible enough to be safe.

Wicknight,you have to put yourself in his shoes.They were not going out together or anything but good friends etc.While your argument makes perfect sense,if he feels anger there is nothing he can do about it.Just as a depressed person cannot help the fact they are depressed my bruv cannot help it if he finds this carry on offensive

Zombrex

villain_97 wrote:

Wicknight,you have to put yourself in his shoes.They were not going out together or anything but good friends etc.While your argument makes perfect sense,if he feels anger there is nothing he can do about it.Just as a depressed person cannot help the fact they are depressed my bruv cannot help it if he finds this carry on offensive

I understand that your brother is angry, and I think he has every right to be angry. What I am saying is that he should maybe have a think about what exactly he is angry about.

I mean, you say he took offensive that she was so promiscusious. I don't know your brother, but I would say that is more likely that he was upset that she was with other people, rather than him, because he likes her and wanted to be with her that night. But because they were not going out it is hard from him to express that he is upset by that, because he has no real claim over her. So instead his anger is directed at the actions she took that night, being with a load of guys.

If he didn't like her, then would her actions have bothered him so much? I doubt it. It is the fact that he likes her and wanted to be with her, that is making him upset, not the fact that she was with a load of guys.