Give Bush a break!

Spock

I saw Fahrenheit 9/11 on the 28th of June and after much contemplation I think public opinion is too hard on Bush. Granted I don’t like the guy but I think he deserves a bit of a break.
The public scolding Mr Chirac gave Mr Bush for daring to say this week that it would be a good idea for Turkey one day to become a member of the E.U was amazingly rude. Chirac is not alone either, most European leader are postponing reconciliation till after November in the hope that Kerry will be the president after then. It is worth remembering that Bush did try very hard to persuade the Security Council to authorise the war in Iraq, a war that Kerry favoured. It is also unlikely that Kerry will change America’s policy on Kyoto or the international criminal court. And the probability is that a Kerry administration would stick to the Iraq plan it inherits from Bush.

Bush has done all that foreign governments have demanded him to do in Iraq. Iraq has its own sovereign government fully endorsed by the UN Security Council and Saddam has been handed over to this new sovereign state. Yet foreign politicians still despise Bush.I say give the guy a break, he’s trying to run the only Superpower in today’s troubled world, it can’t be easy.

mycroft

The public scolding Mr Chirac gave Mr Bush for daring to say this week that it would be a good idea for Turkey one day to become a member of the E.U was amazingly rude

And bush trying to muscle the EU into accepted a country with a brutal human rights effort was what?

I say give the guy a break, he’s trying to run the only Superpower in today’s troubled world, it can’t be easy.

Esp if you're a coke sorting, business ruining, alcoholic, convicted felon, C average, draft dodging, can't even finish the cushy get outa jail free card assignment you got to avoid going to vietnam, lying, cheating incompendent, nap taking, lazy idiot.

It is worth remembering that Bush did try very hard to persuade the Security Council to authorise the war in Iraq,

That would be what we now affectional know as "the tissue of lies and bul**t" we refer to as Colin Powells UN speech?

Bush has done all that foreign governments have demanded him to do in Iraq. Iraq has its own sovereign government fully endorsed by the UN Security Council and Saddam has been handed over to this new sovereign state

Except that the "soveriegn" govt is proped up by a US force it can't remove, can't charge it's soldiers with the death of Iraqis, a council hand picked by the US administration, lumbered with laws it can't remove which allow US business all the rich pickings and does not force them to reinvest in Iraqi, oh and Saddam is still held by the Americans.

grumpytrousers

The public scolding Mr Chirac gave Mr Bush for daring to say this week that it would be a good idea for Turkey one day to become a member of the E.U was amazingly rude.

Scandalous, indeed, how dare a jumped up European tell the nice Texan to butt out of European Affairs. Doesn't Gerhard Schroeder offer regular advice to the States on how to cut the Federal Budget defecit...

It is worth remembering that Bush did try very hard to persuade the Security Council to authorise the war in Iraq, a war that Kerry favoured.

I remember that 'very hard persuading'. They sent along Colin Powell with some spy sat pictures that wouldn't look out of place on Tony Harts 'Gallery' whereupon CP gave a running commentary on 'That could be a missile silo, and that could be a lab making weapons'

Btw - that pain in my ass could be piles and it could be Dubya. Hard to tell from this distance...

It is also unlikely that Kerry will change America’s policy on Kyoto or the international criminal court. And the probability is that a Kerry administration would stick to the Iraq plan it inherits from Bush.

Aye - you're prolly right there, but just cos Kerry inherits a clusterf*** from Dubya ain't a good reason to give ol' monkey face an easy ride

Bush has done all that foreign governments have demanded him to do in Iraq.

Right - and the next shuttle bus for your planet leaves at what time precisely. maybe he has in the last few weeks - when he realised that all that guff that Dick'n'Condi'n'Colin and the lads said wasn't all true

he’s trying to run the only Superpower in today’s troubled world,

There's an 'i' in the word 'ruin'

ChipZilla

Give Bush a break!

F**k no!

Mycroft just about summed him up as a "a coke sorting, business ruining, alcoholic, convicted felon, C average, draft dodging, can't even finish the cushy get outa jail free card assignment you got to avoid going to vietnam, lying, cheating incompendent, nap taking, lazy idiot."

He's a clown. I had to laugh at him at the end of F9/11 when he goes: " Fool me once, um, ur, um." Looked like his earpiece malfunctioned and his lackey on the other end didn't get to tell the punchline to the quote. Either that ot his tiny brain had a spasm of some sort...

chewy

the point i'd like to take up in the first point is about kerry, i do have fear that even if kerry wins things won't change that much and people eye will be taken off the ball

but i think a fair number of people know kerr ain't the answer

Hobbes

Originally posted by Spock
I saw Fahrenheit 9/11 on the 28th of June and after much contemplation I think public opinion is too hard on Bush.

You must of been watching a different movie to me then because a lot of what was said in that movie Bush should be impeached.

Or do you think someone who was sitting on his ass enjoying a holiday instead of reading documents that would of warned him about 9/11 is a good thing?

Or prehaps how him, his friends have all profited from 9/11+Iraq.

chewy

did you read this in the paper today

as i read it a friend of bush hs giving a large donation to nadar in the hope that it will detract votes from kerry in oder for bush to win

the crafty bastard, can you say bastard?


imho i think the rise of a third party (fourth, fifth, sixth, seventh etc) is vital for a better democracy in america

not that im a fan of party/parliamentary politics

althought not many here seem to agree with me

and of course they'll never be a good time in democrats eyes to do that since they still blame nadar for gore's loss

Hobbes

I see Bushes friend Tom Ridge has said AQ are planning to attack the election.

Any bets it will be areas that don't vote for bush.

Champ

Aye - you're prolly right there, but just cos Kerry inherits a clusterf*** from Dubya ain't a good reason to give ol' monkey face an easy ride

You know it's amazing; i know people from all parts of Ireland who don't know each other and yet refer to Bush as "Monkey Face"... :rolleyes:

A friend even brought me back a little something from the states; from the Anti-Bush movement. It was a fake dollar; though very realistic with Bush's face really giving credit to the theme "Monkey Face"... :rolleyes:

I tend to try to avoid politics except when they can potentially affect me; and with Bush currently in charge of a world superpower.... he hasn't made much of an impression on me except that of a gung-ho cowboy... whether he ultimately does good or bad would be one massive debate... :dunno:

Ajnag

Spock Have you been reading the economist?

Bush sucks, However the reality is that he is here until at least november and until that time all policy with america has to ran through him.The problem being that grudges from last year now mean that all moves made by the bush admin to comprimise are being rejected by predominantly european leaders.

Now Considering that those of us who were against last years war claim to have had the Iraqi's best intrests at heart, is it not a little hipocritical to dismiss attempts at diplomacy that can help just because of last years farce and the admins record.

Theres 3 months of bush left, should Iraqi's or afghani's be cut short simply because we cant get over ourselves to take any positives offered?.

Even if the admin are ****?

ChipZilla

Afghanistan? Where's that? Didn't Bush send an army out there once to look for some guy called Bin Laden? What happened to that?

Now where did I hear that there are more cops in New York city right now than there are American soldiers in Afghanistan (~11000 IIRC)? Not a lot of manpower to look for one of the most dangerous men in the world, is it?

Victor

Originally posted by ChipZilla
Now where did I hear that there are more cops in New York city right now than there are American soldiers in Afghanistan (~11000 IIRC)? Not a lot of manpower to look for one of the most dangerous men in the world, is it?

Ah ye sure? An awful lot of the NYPD is in Iraq at the moment.

ChipZilla

I think the statistic came from Fahrenheit 9/11. The Pentagon doesn't list numbers but estimates on different sites vary between 10000 and 18000.

Any way you look at it, they're not exactly tearing Afghanistan apart looking for the dodgy-kidneyed one...

por

Originally posted by ChipZilla
they're not exactly tearing Afghanistan apart looking for the dodgy-kidneyed one...

I'd imagine if they were 'tearing Afghanistan apart looking for the dodgy-kidneyed one...' people whould be complaining about that too.

Originally posted by mycroft
coke sorting, business ruining, alcoholic, convicted felon, C average, draft dodging

I have not and will not get a chance to see the film for another few weeks, I am aware of the business running, coke cnorting, alcoholic, C average and draft dodging, but when was he convicted of a felony ?.

gom

That is the same kind of attitude that existed in Ireland pre-scandal years.
Its the same attitude that allowed Charlie Haughey "STEAL" hard earned tax moneies from the citizens of this country.
It is the attitude that defines what is wonrg with Ireland.

"Ah, sure feck it anyway"

ChipZilla

Originally posted by por
I'd imagine if they were 'tearing Afghanistan apart looking for the dodgy-kidneyed one...' people whould be complaining about that too.

:rolleyes: People complaining about Bin Laden being hunted? Now who's going to do that?

Hobbes

Originally posted by por
I'd imagine if they were 'tearing Afghanistan apart looking for the dodgy-kidneyed one...' people whould be complaining about that too.

Only because Bush gave Bin Laden a two month head start and anyone with half a brain cell would realise hes long since gone.

mycroft

but when was he convicted of a felony ?.

Wasn't actually convicted of a felony, sorry spock got me caught up in my retoric, two misdemenors in the 80s however for DUI

Incidently I've figured out why I don't like Bush, (aside from that smug grin during press conferences)

We're talking about a man who has never once had to take responsibility for any of his actions.

Doesn't get the grades he wants to get into college, no bother dad sorts him out.

Needs to avoid national service, dad sorts him out.

Decides, eventually, to get into the family business, oil, and fails, Dad sorts him out.

Decides to run a baseball team, Dad fixes it.

Daddy suggests he runs for office, and buys him the governship of Texas.

Is told to run for President, is surrounded by the kind of people who were running Nixons whitehouse while he was lighting his farts in a frathouse in Yale.

That all being said I think it's fair to say, Spock is a troll, he hasn't said anything since this thread started.

ALLGOOD

Look people, it doesn't matter who the prez of USA is, American foreign policy will always remain the same, the only difference is what type of a PR slant each administration puts on things. What everybody fails to notice is that the foreign policy was the exact same under Clinton as it is under Bush, just Bush doesn't care how the world sees him, or his administration.

Remember the peace deals that tramp Clinton had running in the mid east - ALL COSMETIC short term feel good factor ****e that ignored the reasons for the conflict in the first place but the world loved him for it.

The USA isn't perfect but its better than Nazi Germany !

Hobbes

Originally posted by mycroft

Decides, eventually, to get into the family business, oil, and fails, Dad sorts him out.

Saudis bailed him out, not his daddy.

Webmonkey

give bush a break? fcuk that ****!, Bush is the most powerful man in the world at the momen and is dangerous, i don't think we should be giving him a break. He has the whole of america brainwashed, don't let it happen here.... them poor people

by the way check out this article. A prime example of how bad things are getting - http://www.sky.com/skynews/article/0,,30100-13150395,00.html

the end is interesting...

"Offenders are tagged with a tracking device which is monitored from space. If they stray into forbidden "exclusion zone" areas, such as near a school or near a victim's house, an alarm will alert controllers who can contact police. "

grumpytrousers

The USA isn't perfect but its better than Nazi Germany !

And for that, i now invoke Godwins Law and decree that you be quiet....

por

Originally posted by Hobbes
Only because Bush gave Bin Laden a two month head start and anyone with half a brain cell would realise hes long since gone.

And if he had gone in all guns blazing on Sept 12th 2001 the world would be up in arms and accusing the USA of rash decisions and not exploring the evidence of who was responsible etc etc .

Webmonkey

Originally posted by por
And if he had gone in all guns blazing on Sept 12th 2001 the world would be up in arms and accusing the USA of rash decisions and not exploring the evidence of who was responsible etc etc .

It wasn't that long after they made the decisions- 2 months isn't long, but that was just to the public, they had them made prior the to sept 11th attack. They knew it was going to happen and the made sure it would happen

por

Originally posted by Webmonkey
It wasn't that long after they made the decisions- 2 months isn't long, but that was just to the public, they had them made prior the to sept 11th attack. They knew it was going to happen and the made sure it would happen

Interesting, can you provide some links etc to back this up, or is it just your opinion ?

Webmonkey

http://www.propagandamatrix.com/archiveprior_knowledge.html

ChipZilla

Originally posted by mycroft
Wasn't actually convicted of a felony, sorry spock got me caught up in my retoric...

There was an talk of a coke possession felony in the early 70s which was brushed under the carpet by daddy, but as there doesn't seem to be anything definite about it anywhere I won't say any more about it. The Bushies would jump on it as Dubya-bashing.

ChipZilla

Originally posted by grumpytrousers
And for that, i now invoke Godwins Law and decree that you be quiet....

You should have read the whole FAQ yourself:

5. What should I do if somebody else invokes Godwin's Law?

The obvious response is to call them on it, say "thread's over",
and declare victory. This is also one of the stupidest possible responses,
because it involves believing far too much in the power of a few rules that
don't say exactly what you wish they said anyway. The proper response to
an invocation is probably to simply followup with a message saying "Oh.
I'm a Nazi? Sure. Bye" and leave, and in most cases even that much of a
post is unnecessary.

I've compared the US and 1930s Germany with some examples in another post on here somewhere - and nobody offered any rebuttals...

por

Yes intel. prior to 9/11 warned of a possible attack, but that is a long way from saying that the admin. was aware of what exactly was going to happen and did not bother preventing it.

If there was intel. that a group was to target Dublin some time in the next few weeks would you expect teh city to be shut down as a result ?.

Webmonkey

Well wouldn't security be tightened.....A few planes were flying around washonton in no fly zones for i think it was 40 minutes? and these planes had remote control capabilities, so they could be being brought down no problem....why were they left roam the skys for 40 minutes? until finally flying into the towers

grumpytrousers

You should have read the whole FAQ yourself:

You're right, Chipzilla, indeed I should have. hoist on my own petard...

However, as I'm not taking part in the argument per se, (more observing from the sideline) I didn't feel that I could declare my particular side of the argument to be won or lost.

I suppose my main contention is that a line like 'The USA..... is better than Nazi Germany' is a complete and utter non-sequiter, and if that's one of anybodys reasons for Giving Bush a Chance, then maybe it would be better for them to think on a bit....

Candy Floss is also better than Nazi Germany. As is An End To Hunger. I should hope that the next Polyphonic Spree album will also (in its own little way) be better than Nazi Germany

steviec

Imagine the uproar if the American governemnt took down two planes on September 11th and the attacks never happened. That cowboy Bush attacking innocent commuters.

Hobbes

Originally posted by por
Interesting, can you provide some links etc to back this up, or is it just your opinion ?

Bush was personally handed the documentsby the CIA before Sept 11, but was busy taking a month long holiday. Those documents clearly laid out an attack coming. (ref: Film footage of F911 movie)

CIA warned of attacks to congress beforehand.

German intelligence warned the US months before it happened.

Even the US Anti-terrorism handbook for 2000 had a picture of the Twin towers with a sight on it.

Or prehaps Bin Ladan publically annoucing he would attack the towers again after attacking the first time.

Or maybe the huge number of put options on the airlines prior to 9/11 could be traced to the carlyle group (which had Bush+Bin laden family connections), plus traced back to companies owned by ex-CIA.

Sources:

http://www.thememoryhole.org/911/
http://www.unansweredquestions.org/timeline/

Imagine the uproar if the American governemnt took down two planes on September 11th and the attacks never happened. That cowboy Bush attacking innocent commuters.

It is unlikey they could of stopped the first plane, except from before it took off (and some flights were being investigated the day before). However after the second flight hit it was in no ones mind that it wasn't a deliberate attack. What did Bush do? He sat on his ass and read a childrens book when he should of been giving the order to ground all flights sooner. It might of saved the pentagon.

Webmonkey

Originally posted by steviec
Imagine the uproar if the American governemnt took down two planes on September 11th and the attacks never happened. That cowboy Bush attacking innocent commuters.

Come on now, to safely take down 2 planes, by flying them in to the airport wouldn't have caused that much uproar...I'm sure the people would have understood that it was for security reasons

oh and yes, there were explosives put in the building, thats what brought the buildings down, not the planes. It exploded in the bottom floor and huge numbers withnessed this and why did the 3rd plane fly into the West side of the pentagon, the side that was under construction. Ive enough said, read the articles

steviec

What was meant to be done about this intelligence? People are tearing him apart for the Patriot act, and to make sure September 11th never happened it would have taken that and no fly zones and more besides. How many dozens of terrorist attacks were stopped that were never heard about?
So your the President of America, you know there's a terrorist threat and Bin Laden might strike somewhere somehow sometime. What exactly are you meant to do? If he had done a lot more and the attacks had been prevented he'd have been 'heavy handed'. Now that there has been an attack and it's very clear for all to see that there is a terror threat people still call him heavy handed for increasing security.

mycroft

What was meant to be done about this intelligence?

Um anything? Which is the opposition of what he did, which is nothing.

to make sure September 11th never happened it would have taken that and no fly zones and more besides.

Or listening to FBI intelligence ( which named hijackers, alluded to the plot) and making a few arrests.

Saudis bailed him out, not his daddy.

The Saudis who have a fine history of links with the Bush dynasty. But we're spliting hairs, the son who was really helped out was Jeb (whole saving and loans scandal)

jackofalltrades

What was meant to be done about this intelligence?

Ummm, they could have acted upon it.
They could have passed the information onto NORAD and then they might have managed to actually intercept the planes, which for some unknown reason they messed up 4 times in a row, in one day.

Hobbes

Originally posted by steviec
What was meant to be done about this intelligence? People are tearing him apart for the Patriot act, and to make sure September 11th never happened it would have taken that and no fly zones and more besides. How many dozens of terrorist attacks were stopped that were never heard about?

Hardly. Did you know he cut funding to the CIA for terrorism beforehand, or that he told the CIA to stop investigating bin laden?

So your the President of America, you know there's a terrorist threat and Bin Laden might strike somewhere somehow sometime. What exactly are you meant to do?

You use the intel to stop it. The president did nothing at all.

people still call him heavy handed for increasing security.

Have you read the PATRIOT act? I have. It basically treats anyone who disagrees with the president as a terrorist.

Amazing he could get that passed in 4 weeks after 9/11 but still took two months to go after Bin Laden.

Simple fact is Bush+co has profitted off 9/11+Iraq by an insane amount of cash.

por

Originally posted by Webmonkey
Come on now, to safely take down 2 planes, by flying them in to the airport wouldn't have caused that much uproar...I'm sure the people would have understood that it was for security reasons

Yea. I'm sure Atta et al. whould have landed without a fight.

Webmonkey

Well they have no choice if the controls get locked and plane gets controlled by NORAD base

Though i have seen somehwhere that the planes wern't equipped with remote control features..but besides anywayz, Norad should have done something.

Have a read of this if your bored http://www.standdown.net/

pork99

I've already given him a break

But he didn't deserve it.

When he was first elected I thought he might be a moderate consensus-building conservative (maybe a bit like Eisenhower). Even though I would have preferred Gore to win I thought Bush might be ok.

However he has turned out to be a sinister subversive cloak-and-dagger conservative in league with a gang of idealogical cranks.

It's the same with the Iraq war I thought if they go as far as invading there must be a very serious threat there to justify it. Probably one, intelligence on which was so sensitive, where information on it could not be released to the public. But over 12 months later, there's nothing, over 600 soldiers dead and the USA's influence in the world (which I believe has been largely benign) seriously compromised, for what? It's a good thing Saddams gone but was the cost worth it?

And then as for the "Patriot Act" - who needs Al Queada to subvert democracy when you have Bush?

Spock

And bush trying to muscle the EU into accepted a country with a brutal human rights effort was what?

Was a suggestion, which he is entitled to make, and we are entitled to reject, just not, i believe, in the manner that Mr Chirac did.

Or do you think someone who was sitting on his ass enjoying a holiday instead of reading documents that would of warned him about 9/11 is a good thing?

Very narrow minded indeed, firstly it was a working holiday and secondly he was well aware of the threat of OBL, he just didn't act on them. Get your facts right before you start rambling on as if you fully understand the situation.

By alienating Bush you only futher convince America that it does not need allies, and if action has to be taken, take it, regardless of what europe has to say. What we do now will have long term effects. Without american leadership we have.........no leadership.

sovtek

Originally posted by Spock
Was a suggestion, which he is entitled to make, and we are entitled to reject, just not, i believe, in the manner that Mr Chirac did.

And what do you think would be the reaction of Bush if told by Chirac to allow Mexico to be become part of the US?

Very narrow minded indeed, firstly it was a working holiday

Oh some guy is going to attack America...lets go on a working holiday.

and secondly he was well aware of the threat of OBL, he just didn't act on them.

My that's comforting and an assured vote getter.

By alienating Bush you only futher convince America that it does not need allies,

Although it's been made quite obvious and it's leader has acknowledged that it does.

and if action has to be taken, take it, regardless of what europe has to say.

Even though it was asking the UN and Europe to join it in "taking action" which it is obliged to do by UN Charter as well as the US Constitution.

What we do now will have long term effects.

You are quite right there my friend.

Without american leadership we have.........no leadership.

If jumping off a bridge is leadership, then I'm quite happy without it.

Champ

Without american leadership we have.........no leadership.

The whole lack of evidence justifying the war; the half-truths and lies paraded before the UN in a farce to justify the war for entirely different reasons; and the lack of willingness of the US to join the international crimes court makes me have little to no faith in current american leadership.... Not to mention the infamous "Bring em on" stunt...

If what you say is considered true; then well quality leadership is something that became extinct decades ago....

Cork

Many Irish Americans will vote for Bush for his Anti Abortion statements.

The Democrats policy of Pro Choice has alienated many Irish Americans.

(I know that Irish Americans are also alienated by the death penenty).

mycroft

Was a suggestion, which he is entitled to make, and we are entitled to reject, just not, i believe, in the manner that Mr Chirac did.

Actually what Bush said was "given that Turkey now meets EU criteria for membership, the EU should give Turkey membership at the earliest opportunity"

I actually hadn't heard Bush's exact wording until today, and frankly I'm suprised Chirac said anything other than "well take your opinion and ram it up your arse, if you can find it cause I'm not sure which one of your holes spouts the most crap"

It was bush trying to dictate EU policy, over one of the most contenous issues the EU faces; the membership of Turkey. One of the countries with the most dubious human rights records in the region (a title it really had to fight for, what with all the competition from Israel, Saudi, and Iran) which happens to be a huge nato ally whom Bush bribed to help in his "war on terror". It's the Bush trying to bully the EU into giving il ole Turkey a little something for all it's trouble, and it's much appreciated help.

It's bush trying to dictate to us our policy, the "should" is not even remotely ambigious, it's the kind of arrogant swagger we've come to expect from that half literate chimp.

By alienating Bush you only futher convince America that it does not need allies, and if action has to be taken, take it, regardless of what europe has to say. What we do now will have long term effects.

Well duh, and standing up to a man who embodies everything that we must change if the human race is going to survive we send America a clear signal that we well not tolerate their hyprocritical war on terror, a war which they tell us is because "they hate our freedom" which justifies detenment without trial, a war which they tell us will make the world "a safer place" which clearly it is not. And finally we must stand up to Bush and his oil cronies, (lest we forget the real reason they are at war) and demand that the US takes responsibility for the environment they're destroying.

egan007

Originally posted by Spock
I .I say give the guy a break, he’s trying to run the only Superpower in today’s troubled world, it can’t be easy.

A break - he doesn't need a break his corporate driven greed is all that matters to him. He's not even of the people and for the people - if he was he would of been elected.

OF course running a 'superpower', a funny word as 1 bullet can make you a super power if you fire it at the right person, is not easy that why it needs a competent leader. He's an idiot in the highest sence of the word - if Kerry is any better then that remains to be seen. The bottom line is that man needs to be taken out.

Spock

And what do you think would be the reaction of Bush if told by Chirac to allow Mexico to be become part of the US?

He would say no, but not in the manner that Chirac did, I'm begining to wonder if anyone here has read or seen Chirac's display

standing up to a man who embodies everything that we must change if the human race is going to survive

But we are not standing up to a man, we are standing up to a nation, and if this nation accepts that europe (at the moment) does not want it's friendship, it may decide to take away the friendship, the support, and the security. America is the best ally to have, lets not ruin it.

1 bullet can make you a super power

Wrong!. America is the only superpower because of its vast military strenght and resources and its powerful economy.

mycroft

But we are not standing up to a man, we are standing up to a nation, and if this nation accepts that europe (at the moment) does not want it's friendship, it may decide to take away the friendship, the support, and the security. America is the best ally to have, lets not ruin it.

So if I have your policy clear it's "We should be nice to Bush", "Why" "Well if we're not nice to Bush, America may not like us".

We should tolerate his policy, accept his rape of the environment, the carving up of Iraqi to his oil cronies, the tens of thousands of innocents killed by his side on the "war on terror", because maybe, America may not like us???????????! WTF???

Or alternatively we could show the millions of Americans who are opposed to Bush and didn't vote for the unelected SOB, that they're not alone, and we support them.

But we are not standing up to a man, we are standing up to a nation

No I'm opposed to Neo Conversative Oil hungry, right wing relgious nutcases, I'm not opposed to America as nation or as a social group.

Y'know Spock, I think you should change your name, you and logic aren't on speaking terms......

Hobbes

Originally posted by Spock

Wrong!. America is the only superpower because of its vast military strenght and resources and its powerful economy.

If it is vast miltary strength, why then does the US need other countries to help it out then in Iraq/Afganistan? Why is it extending tour of duties for people in Iraq and recalling people who shouldn't be fighting anymore? Why is it withdrawing troops from other areas to make up the numbers? (eg. South Korea)

Why do things like Missile shield system that only protects America needs listening posts in Europe for it to work?

Powerful economy? Everything is made in China.

User45701

I think bush and his friends are brillent.
The first half of F 9/11 showed the brillence at which everything was manaplited by bush and his friends. He achived power, the person running against him could not.

One thing i think is very good is that bush held in his smile, when he was in that classroom on 9/11, when he was told of the attack - i dont know how he held in his smile. He knows allot of his citizans have died and thats bad yes. But bush also knew that this attack was everything he wanted and needed to go to war with "terrorism"