Agm 2004

vinnyfitz

Please record my regrets. I'll be abroad.
(BTW I'm not sure Athlone as a venue is likely to maximise attendance - just my 2 cents as, I'll be away on 17 July anyway)

SkepticOne

I will take responsibility for the location as it was my idea. It looks as if problems with regard to Internet access are being slowly sorted out in the major cities. Of course there are still problems which need to be addressed but these pale in comparison to the smaller towns and rural areas. Therefore it seems no longer appropriate to continue having the AGM in Dublin. Athlone is fairly accessible from many parts of the country so this is the location for this years AGM. While some may argue for other locations, unfortunately there was not time this year to hold such a discussion. It is possible that only a small number will turn up and this may mean the closing down of the organisation. In this case I will have to take the blame as it was I who pushed for the Athlone location.

However I am optimistic and I believe that people will show sufficient commitment to attend.

Moriarty

But _athlone_? Gah Surely it should be of a higher priority to get people to come to an AGM rather than to make statements by having it in unusual places. In any case isn't Athlone one of the best served towns in ireland for broadband provision, it has a number of exchanges enabled aswell as a cable network iirc?

Anyhow.. I have a feeling there's a wedding I may have to attend on either that weekend or the one after.. I'll do my best to be there though.

dahamsta

Anyone from Cork fancy a night on the piss in Athlone? Never been to Athlone. I'll drive if you chip in a few quid for juice.

adam

OHP

If anyone travelling to Athlone for the AGM needs any help with directions, places to stay, watering holes etc. Just tell me and I will help in any way I can. Crikey Adam tis a long way to Athlone from Cork but if you make it there will be a pint or two waiting for ya.

OHP

vinnyfitz

Originally posted by SkepticOne
I will take responsibility for the location as it was my idea. It looks as if problems with regard to Internet access are being slowly sorted out in the major cities. Of course there are still problems which need to be addressed but these pale in comparison to the smaller towns and rural areas.

Fair enough.

I see the point.

I wonder would it be worth promoting the event in other forums that might be particularly supportive of this reorintation in IOFFL strategy?

dahamsta

Originally posted by OHP
Crikey Adam tis a long way to Athlone from Cork but if you make it there will be a pint or two waiting for ya.

Errah it's about the same as Dublin, and I've always preferred to drive there. I'll take you up on those pints if I can get someone to come with me. Wouldn't be bothered going up on me own.

adam

De Rebel

Originally posted by dahamsta
Anyone from Cork fancy a night on the piss in Athlone?

Yes, and i'll be there, but the likelyhood is that it will be a stop off on my way from Dublin to Limerick, so I'm not much use to you !

viking

I'll be there on the 17th.

For me Athlone suits better than Dublin would.

viking

jwt

Yep me too....wouldn't mind putting a face to the name Viking and I would like to discuss a mutual contact "CM"

Besides closing down the organisation because of poor attendance would make me feel very guilty.

JWT

SkepticOne

Originally posted by Moriarty
Anyhow.. I have a feeling there's a wedding I may have to attend on either that weekend or the one after.. I'll do my best to be there though.

Cool. Obviously family events have to come first but the more people that turn up the better. It should be an interesting meeting with plenty of diverse points of view represented.

MDR

My apologies,

An old friend of mine's stag night is Edinburgh that weekend,
I won't be able to make it.

KinSlayer

Just looking at the website to see what time the meeting was on

When: Saturday, 17 July 2004 @ 02:30 IST - Saturday, 17 July 2004 @ 05:30 IST

2:30am - 5:30am?

tis a bit late/early in the day

SkepticOne

Originally posted by KinSlayer
2:30am - 5:30am?

tis a bit late/early in the day

Fixed. Thanks.

dahamsta

Yellum called shotgun so if anyone from Cork or on the way wants a spot I'll be leaving Cork at about 10am on Saturday, and leaving Athlone sometime after lunch on Sunday.

First round's on me, assuming there aren't, like, a hundred people there. I'll bring FizzyGoodMakeFeelNice for the morning.

adam

SkepticOne

Agenda:

1. Presentation by Christian Cooke: "Group Data Schemes and the Group Data Scheme Society"

2. Presentation by Paul Cunnane: "The First Group Data Scheme" - How a rural community crossed the digital divide created by the telcos.

Presentations to be followed by a short Q&A session.

3. Chairman's report

4. Q&A session + discussion

5. Election of the new committee.

6. Formalisation of the coming year's strategy.

Meeting ends.

DonegalMan

I'm away at a family wedding in England that weekend so I definitely won't make it.

Good luck with the AGM and please extend my appreciation to all the committee members who have worked so hard to keep IOFFL in business.


Martin Harran

sceptre

Unfortunately I'm almost certainly going to miss it. I've a good mate's wedding on at the weekend and a person to deliver home afterwarsd and it'd be a neat trick to arrive at the meeting at all. It's a pity the two are on the same weekend as apart from the inevitable shop talk, it'd have been nice to see some old faces again.

OHP

Chairman <chairman@irelandoffline.org> wrote:

Dear Members,

Although I don't want to touch on matters that are more properly dealt with at the AGM, and though it is the attendees of the AGM that will be the arbiters of any decisions taken, I think it proper that you be notified in advance of my intention to propose a motion at the event that Ireland Offline disband.

While other commentators on the Irish Internet market for their own
reasons would point to the reduction in price and increase in
availability and take-up of broadband offers as an indication of the
turnaround of the market after years of stagnation, an objective
evaluation would make plain the fact that the country continues to
languish in the doldrums by international standards, with EU accession countries outstripping Ireland in this area, and is likely to remain playing catch-up for some time to come.

In the context of the consistent, albeit voluntary, efforts of Ireland Offline over the last three years to address this situation, it is clear that this is not having an effect. Throughout the existence of the organisation we have pursued the strategy of focussing on individual issues that would drive the market forward in general, and while our part in the introduction of flat-rate Internet access services would be considered a success, our pursuit of the objectives of support for community networks and the availability of affordable backhaul, although adopted by the government, have been implemented with negligible consultation with us and in a manner inconsistent with our intent.

That the government and the department of communications have
demonstrated progressively less interest in our opinion on measures to drive the Internet access market as it affects the residential and SME user would further call into question our legitimacy as the
representative of these groups.

Given that, it is clear that there remains no further objective for the organisation to focus on that can be expected to have an effect on the availability of proper Internet access nationwide - our core remit - and that the only reasonable course of action should therefore be to disband, in the hope that the expansion and development of services offered by wireless providers, bringing true platform competition to the market, and the proliferation of community-owned, community-run networks, addressing rural needs, will succeed where we have failed.

Should the decision be made to disband the group, this mailing list
will be deleted to prevent misuse.

I, for one, am no longer willing to act as a bulwark for where
responsibility for our current situation ultimately lies: with the
government and the department of communications, marine and natural
resources. Neither, I believe, should Ireland Offline.

Regards,

Christian Cooke
Chairman, Ireland Offline
_______________________________________________
IO-Announce mailing list
IO-Announce@irelandoffline.taint.org
http://irelandoffline.taint.org/mailman/listinfo/io-announce

If it is I have wasted a lot of time and effort trying to get people to attend this AGM and I need to know now if there is any point in them doing so. Although a lot of them have already seen this letter.


OHP

Moriarty

See this and this, OHP.

OHP

Thank you Moriarty.

I have read all the threads and I wont go into a big discussion here. But what I will do is offer anyone that is travelling by Bus or Rail to the AGM in Athlone a free Taxi from the station to the Royal Hotel. It is only a short distance anyway. Or if anyone wants directions to it, they can give me a ring ( I will give them my mobile number if they PM me or e-mail me before 12 Noon tomorrow).


OHP

viking

OHP,

Trying to PM/email you there, but boards says that you have chosen "not to receive private messages/emails".

I'll be travelling by bus to Athlone and I'd like to take you up on the taxi offer.

PM me if you see this.

Gareth

jwt

Check your PM

JWT

viking

Thanks JWT,

sent you one back.

OHP

PM sent to you Viking

OHP

My e-mail and PM should be working now. I will check back again at 1.


OHP

Dangger

Well, I'm just back from the IOFFL 2004 AGM.

I'll be brief but there will be notes posted in the next day or so.

IrelandOffline lives!

It was a well attended afair in Athlone with an excellent report on the Group Data Schemes and the chairmans report was also most informative.

There is to be an extraordinary general meeting in September to allow time for discussion and debate about irelandOffline's future. It appears (for the moment) rumors of it's impending demise have been exaggerated !

In the interim as many of the committee stepped down at the AGM a brave group of individuals have agreed to take the helm until the EGM. Some old committee members will also stay on.

I have not posted any names on purpose until I get a definitive list back from the minute man.

Many thanks to Mike for organising the event!

Poz3D

I was at the AGM myself, and thought it was a good event. It'll be interesting to see how the Group Data Schemes turn out. I personally can't see it working if it's non-commercial, but it's worth a shot.

It's great to hear IrelandOffline will continue. They are doing a great job at lobbying the government and are one of the major influences for getting not only flat-rate Internet but also funding for wireless networks.

Ronan|Raven

Just back from it. An interesting day to say the least. Will leave it to others to fill in on the news.

oscarBravo

Originally posted by Poz3D
I personally can't see it working if it's non-commercial, but it's worth a shot.

Non-profit != non-commercial.

Poz3D

Originally posted by oscarBravo
Non-profit != non-commercial.

I kind of figured they're the same thing. If you form a company and don't set out to make a profit, you're not doing a great job as a company Most non-profit organisations (such as charities) are set up because one or two people have a desire to carry out their job, but will the same apply to Group Data Schemes? Will you be able to create lots of wireless networks and spend a lot of work on them, for no pay? And if you do get paid, wouldn't that be considered profit making?

maxheadroom

Originally posted by Poz3D
I kind of figured they're the same thing. If you form a company and don't set out to make a profit, you're not doing a great job as a company Most non-profit organisations (such as charities) are set up because one or two people have a desire to carry out their job, but will the same apply to Group Data Schemes? Will you be able to create lots of wireless networks and spend a lot of work on them, for no pay? And if you do get paid, wouldn't that be considered profit making?

no - a lot of not for profit orginisations hire staff. You count staff costs as one of your operating expenses and offset your expenses against your income. Any surplus income (=profit) is reinvested into the orginisation.

SkepticOne

Originally posted by Dangger
I have not posted any names on purpose until I get a definitive list back from the minute man.

Right, here's the names.

Existing committee members returned:
Elana Kehoe
Brian Kidney
John Hackett

New members elected:
Adam Beecher (Chairman, interim)
John Timmons
Gareth Pelly
Damien Mulley
Ronan Briem

Good meeting I agree. Great presentations given by Christian and Paul. Many thanks to those volunteering for the interim committee till September and everyone that turned up.

Personally, I enjoyed the whole thing. I had some interesting conversations during the break and before and after the meeting. My only regret was that I couldn't stay long for the session afterwards.

oscarBravo

Originally posted by Poz3D
I kind of figured they're the same thing. If you form a company and don't set out to make a profit, you're not doing a great job as a company

Check your premises. First of all, neither KCN nor GDSS was set up as a company. There are really good reasons for this. The profit motive is the number one reason so many people in Ireland don't have broadband. I'm not knocking companies for wanting to make a profit; equally I don't see why people should have to wait for something to be profitable before it can be provided. How many group water schemes were set up with profit in mind?

Most non-profit organisations (such as charities) are set up because one or two people have a desire to carry out their job, but will the same apply to Group Data Schemes? Will you be able to create lots of wireless networks and spend a lot of work on them, for no pay?

Those are questions to which the answers will become clear over the next while. As to whether it can work or not: I have broadband, as do a number of my neighbours. This is no longer a theoretical concept.

And if you do get paid, wouldn't that be considered profit making?

No, of course not.

Poz3D

Originally posted by maxheadroom
no - a lot of not for profit orginisations hire staff. You count staff costs as one of your operating expenses and offset your expenses against your income. Any surplus income (=profit) is reinvested into the orginisation.

OK thanks for that clarification

Originally posted by oscarBravo
Those are questions to which the answers will become clear over the next while. As to whether it can work or not: I have broadband, as do a number of my neighbours. This is no longer a theoretical concept.

I can see how it'd work with small numbers, but once it starts growing, I don't know if it'll be sustainable. Like you say, we'll only know the answers when this begins to grow to bigger proportions.

SkepticOne

Personally, having seen the presentation and having been to Knockmore, I think the GDS's will have a far greater impact people imagine.

Beyond the immediate and obvious advantages of having a community owned and run network, a powerful message is being sent out to the telcos (Eircom in particular), that essentially they can be bypassed. At the local level (initally at least) they are not needed.

I would not expect many people here to see this yet, but you can be sure that the telcos are watching very carefully.

This is just my opinion, I am not involved in any way with the GDS or the KCN. I was not involved in setting up these either.

With regards to profit, if such an organisation is community owned and run, then 'profits' or the equivalent term would naturally be reinvested. The members of the co-op have put the money in themselves. Why 'take profit' if it is your own money in the first place that you are taking; it would make more sense to vote in a reduction in monthly dues than accumulate funds over and above maintenance costs and capital investment. Your interest as a member is in getting whatever service the group as a whole is providing. Moreover, it is in your interest to continue sustaining the coop in order to continue getting the service. This are just observations about coops - not specific to broadband or GDSs.

With regard to size, the Kerry coop grew pretty big before it became a company.