Ronald Regan RIP

mike65

Its sort of political I guess -

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/3779583.stm

Former US President Ronald Reagan has died, aged 93, after reports in recent days that his health had taken a turn for the worse.

He had suffered from Alzheimer's disease, and had not been seen in public for several years.

He died at his home in California, according to a friend quoted anonymously by Reuters news agency.

He was US president from 1981 to 1989 and had lived longer than any other holder of the post.

Mr Reagan revealed in November 1994 that he was suffering from Alzheimer's disease, which destroys brain cells and causes memory loss.

Since then, he retreated to his home in Los Angeles, where he had been nursed by close members of his family

Mike.

kensutz

RIP

Pigman II

Let's hope Bonzo's able to give him a guided tour of heaven .... providing he makes it there of course.

Celt

He was president aged 70-78??

alleepally

"And as I walk off into the city streets, a final word to the men and women of the Reagan revolution, the men and women across America who for 8 years did the work that brought America back. My friends: We did it. We weren't just marking time. We made a difference. We made the city stronger, we made the city freer, and we left her in good hands. All in all, not bad, not bad at all.

And so, goodbye, God bless you, and God bless the United States of America. "

From Ronald Reagan's Farewell Address
White House, Washington
January 11, 1989

Rest in Peace. It must have been a terrible strain for the family to lose him to Parkinsons.

arcadegame2004

I offer my sympathies to his family. He played a decisive role in ending the Soviet Unions through an arms race that the Soviets in the end couldn't afford, thererby destabilising it.

Manach

For one of the lighter moments of the Cold War.
"My fellow Americans, I'm pleased to tell you today that I've signed legislation that will outlaw Russia forever. We begin bombing in five minutes."
__President Reagan on live radio, August 1984

smoke.me.a.kipper

R.I.P.

mike65

Some reading for the younsters here!

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/national/apus_story.asp?category=1110&slug=Reagan%20Profile

For all his failings (and those of his wife) he did something that should stand him in good stead for posterity - he made Americans feel good about themselves after the doubting 70s and before the doubting 2000s and he did'nt need to be persuaded
to reach out to Gorbachev.

Mike.

shotamoose

Certainly a mixed legacy. I'm not sure that making Americans feel good about themselves is a good thing by itself - you could say that he pushed American political culture further down the road to infantile insularity. But he did an incredibly good act as a politician, complete with one of the simplest and best ever put-downs, delivered during a debate after one of Jimmy Carter's long-winded speeches about saving the trees or whatever: "There you go again". Devestating stuff.

I still don't know what if anything he really stood for, apart from the continuing success of Ronald Reagan.

MadsL

I come to bury Caesar, not to praise him.

I always felt he was dangerous and manipulated by those around him - White House and the Chiefs of Staff (and maybe Nancy)

thejollyrodger

i didnt think the guy was that old but was a fine US president. may he go to heaven (if there is one). R.I.P dude.

jd

Originally posted by alleepally

Rest in Peace. It must have been a terrible strain for the family to lose him to Parkinsons.

It was Alzheimer's disease..

In 1994, he touched the hearts of Americans again when, in a handwritten letter, he let it be known he was suffering from the illness. "I now begin the journey that will lead me into the sunset of my life," Mr. Reagan wrote.

The Long Good Bye.

Dr. Dre

Ah the ol' Gipper.

I particularly liked the way he dealt with the air traffic controllers situation, when they tried to hold the country to ransom. A few modern day leaders would do well to learn from him.

RIP

acid

Originally posted by MadsL
I always felt he was dangerous and manipulated by those around him

The same could be said of many US presidents, not least the current one.

pro_gnostic_8

Originally posted by jd


in a handwritten letter, he let it be known he was suffering from the illness. "I now begin the journey that will lead me into the sunset of my life,"

Yes indeed, jd, I remember that quite well because I was quite moved and touched by that public address. I recall being impressed by the fortitude and humanity of Reagan in declaring his recognition of the onset of his illness, and his asking for understanding from all of us as to the inevitable effect it would have upon him. As always, the Great Communicator.

May you rest in peace, Mr President.................... you left the world a better place than you found it.

therecklessone

Originally posted by Dr. Dre
Ah the ol' Gipper.

I particularly liked the way he dealt with the air traffic controllers situation, when they tried to hold the country to ransom. A few modern day leaders would do well to learn from him.

RIP

Less than a year after sending this letter to PATCO (Professional Air Traffic Controllers Association) President Robert Poli:

Dear Mr. Poli:

I have been briefed by members of my staff as to the deplorable state of our nation's air traffic control system. They have told me that too few people working unreasonable hours with obsolete equipment has placed the nation's air travellers in unwarranted danger. In an area so clearly related to public safety the Carter administration has failed to act responsibly.

You can rest assured that if I am elected President, I will take whatever steps are necessary to provide our air traffic controllers with the most modern equipment available and to adjust staff levels and work days so that they are commensurate with achieving a maximum degree of public safety....

I pledge to you that my administration will work very closely with you to bring about a spirit of cooperation between the President and the air traffic controllers.



Sincerely,

Ronald Reagan

Way to go the Gipper...:rolleyes:

Cork

I think that he will be rembered for the ultimate fall of communisim and the opening up of many former communist states to the freedoms we enjoy in the West. The ending of the Cold War was probably his greatest achievement.

R.I.P.

The Corinthian

Originally posted by Cork
I think that he will be rembered for the ultimate fall of communisim and the opening up of many former communist states to the freedoms we enjoy in the West. The ending of the Cold War was probably his greatest achievement.

Actually that was more correctly George Bush Snr that oversaw the ultimate fall of Communism, it has generally been accepted that disarmament and the end of the Cold War would have come sooner, except for Regan’s insistence on the ill conceived SDI project. As for the fall of Communism worldwide, Gorbachev is probably, and ironically, more responsible for that than Regan.

However, Reagan’s greatest achievement was to reignite a sense of patriotism in the USA that had remained buried since the end of the Vietnam War - even if this patriotism also came at the price of a budget deficit that was greater than that of all the budget deficits of his predecessors combined.

Sparks

I wonder how long before anyone remembers his record in South America or the Middle East?
Oh wait, someone has.

sovtek

Originally posted by arcadegame2004
He played a decisive role in ending the Soviet Unions through an arms race that the Soviets in the end couldn't afford, thererby destabilising it.

Ummm neither could America for that matter.
While Reagan was a puppet and seemingly already suffering from Alzheimers...I'd take him over the current child president any day.

Hairy Homer

Originally posted by The Corinthian
As for the fall of Communism worldwide, Gorbachev is probably, and ironically, more responsible for that than Regan.

That's very true. I think Gorbachev deserves the credit with his policies of glasnost and perestroika. Far more so than Reagan does.

I don't remember Reagan too fondly at all. When he came to Ireland there were several days of protest at his policies in Central and South America where he provided state support for the Contra terrorists in Nicaragua as well as propping up some of the most vicious regimes in El Salvador and Chile. In more recent times, supporting antiGovernment guerillas in certain countries could have you placed on a list of 'the axis of evil'

As for 'giving America back its pride' his successful military operations were against the likes of Grenada and Panama, two mighty military powers indeed. Still, the former gave Clint Eastwood a good 'vehicle' role as a too-old-to-be-taken-seriously-otherwise gunnery sergeant. (Heartbreak Ridge)

His support of the Christian Phalange in Lebanon ended in an infinitely worse disaster than Carter's helicopter cockup in Iran (more than 100 marines blown up in a suicide attack). He was never really taken seriously, he made far too many gaffs and it was always clear that he was just the bimbo mouthing the words in his honey-Irish voice while other less visible people pulled the strings.

His Irish ancestry, although probably genuine, was never satisfactorily proved. It's virtually impossible to trace Irish ancestors before about 1860 thanks to the destruction of central records in the Civil War. The only way to do it is via church records.

Somebody managed to trace the baptismal record of one Thomas Regan (alegedly Reagan's forbear) to a hamlet in Tipperary called Ballyporeen. However, Magill magazine, back in the days when it was good, sent a snapper down to take a picture of the register. The record clearly said Thomas Ryan, and somebody had clearly doctored it, adding a squiggle to turn the g into a y and slip an e in between.

There was also some controversy that Reagan demanded to celebrate Catholic mass while in Ballyporeen, even though he was a protestant; somewhere in the journey to the new world one of his ancestors had 'taken the soup'. The church was delighted of course, until some people pointed out, in the year of a divorce referendum when the church was clearly on the side of the No campaign that if Reagan, a divorcee, had been an Irish politician at the time he would have been hounded from the church as a moral leper. But in a presidential election year, his chance to appeal to the Catholic vote - much larger than the Irish vote - in America could not be turned down.

But of course we're all secular now.

sceptre

Originally posted by Hairy Homer
There was also some controversy that Reagan demanded to celebrate Catholic mass while in Ballyporeen, even though he was a protestant; somewhere in the journey to the new world one of his ancestors had 'taken the soup'.

His dad was a Catholic who drank a lot. His mother was a Presbyterian who probably didn't.

Interesting about the doctored register, I hadn't heard that.

Victor

Originally posted by MadsL
I come to bury Caesar, not to praise him.

Agree.

Originally posted by Cork
I think that he will be rembered for the ultimate fall of communisim and the opening up of many former communist states to the freedoms we enjoy in the West. The ending of the Cold War was probably his greatest achievement.

I'm sorry, that goes to the Pope, Lech Walesa and Mikhail Gorbachev. Raygun had little part in it, but hey, he sponsored Osama Bin Laden and Saddam Hussein.

uaobrien

Originally posted by MadsL
I come to bury Caesar, not to praise him.

I always felt he was dangerous and manipulated by those around him - White House and the Chiefs of Staff (and maybe Nancy)

Reagan was US President for most of my teenage years and at that time I thought the guy was a certifiable nut job. Pretty much the belief most non-Americans (and I'm sure a few Americans) had of him at the time.

But as I've gotten older and had the opportunity to live in the US and seen long term results of his domestic policies, and see his effect on the world stage, I think he was a much better man than we gave him credit for.

I've read some of the letters he wrote when he was compis mentis (at least relatively so) he actually did believe in what he was doing. And he was (comparatively anyway) an honest man.

At the end of the day, Bonzo or no, I'd rather have Reagan running the US than G.W., at least Reagan's incompetent moments were medical - and he'd be definitely a damn sight better than the shower we have here.

Redde Caesari quae sunt Caesaris

vorbis

RIP
was a decent US president. Would still give him credit for ending the cold war. The soviets would have lasted a good deal longer were it not for the arms race. He also helped in communicating with Gorbachev.

thejollyrodger

What a sour day to loose such a magnificant US President as Regan. First to recognise the market economy and true capitalism (as opposed to the state planned commie version). it was very sad to watch it on telly last night.

we salute you Ronald Regan.

RainyDay

Originally posted by thejollyrodger
we salute you Ronald Regan.

Speak for yourself - I prefer Greg Palast's obit titled "KILLER, COWARD, CON-MAN - GOOD RIDDANCE, GIPPER ... - MORE PROOF ONLY THE GOOD DIE YOUNG"

Hairy Homer

Originally posted by sceptre

Interesting about the doctored register, I hadn't heard that.

If you can get hold of an old Magill magazine from 1984 (can't remember the month but it would have been just before Reagan's visit here so prob sometime between Feb and May) there's a picture of it in that.

thejollyrodger

Speak for yourself - I prefer Greg Palast's obit titled "KILLER, COWARD, CON-MAN - GOOD RIDDANCE, GIPPER ... - MORE PROOF ONLY THE GOOD DIE YOUNG"

How can you say such a thing about a great leader when America needed one most !!

shotamoose

How can you say such a thing about a great leader when America needed one most !!

How can you support a man who sponsored terrorism in Nicaragua when the people there needed it least?

therecklessone

Originally posted by thejollyrodger
How can you say such a thing about a great leader when America needed one most !!

The same way you can say that about him!

Bigger budget deficit than all previous presidents combined.
Wasted billions on SDI (Star Wars to all you kiddies).
Supported terrorism and state repression in Central and South America.
Waged war against Grenada...:rolleyes: .
His administration funded OBL and his buddies in Afghanistan.
Brought Saddam in from the cold.

Just a few "achievements" that spring to mind. But hey, at least he recognised "the market economy and true capitalism (as opposed to the state planned commie version)"...:rolleyes:

Annasopra

An interesting obituary

http://www.rotten.com/library/bio/presidents/ronald-reagan/


and another interesting discussion

http://www.gaire.com/e/f/view.asp?parent=209976&nav=1

Asgar

A small question...

Why would they play "God save the Queen" when transporting the coffin from the plane to the hurse??

If I were British I would find it quite insulting that they use the national anthem as funeral march music.

Hairy Homer

I think they have a song called 'God Bless America' which they sing to the same tune as GSTQ. Incidentally, the same tune is used as the national anthem of Liechenstein.

I've got to take this anorak off. Too darned hot.

BEAT

Our twat of a president George Bush has made tomorrow, friday the 11th a national holiday to honor Reagan.
He is giving all gov't employees the day off costing the nation about $67 billion dollars, for a dead guy!

I wonder if he realises that we already have a holiday to honor dead presidents...its called 'presidents day'

What an Idiot :rolleyes:

The Corinthian

Originally posted by Hairy Homer
Incidentally, the same tune is used as the national anthem of Liechenstein.

And for Austria-Hungary, AFAIR.

Victor

Originally posted by BEAT
Our twat of a president George Bush has made tomorrow, friday the 11th a national holiday to honor Reagan.

It's to save them from 6/11.

Hairy Homer

This from today's Irish Times (specifically the column by George Kimball, who is an American.

Shortly after his inauguration as the 40th President of the United States, Ronald Reagan paid the traditional courtesy call to the office of the Speaker of the House. As Tip O'Neill showed the newly elected leader of the free world about the premises, Reagan expressed his admiration for a handsome antique desk.

O'Neill replied that the desk had once belonged to Grover Cleveland. 'Oh,' Reagan brightened, 'I once played him in the movies.'

The stunned O'Neill took a moment to digest this, and then explained to Reagan that in the film to which he was referring (1952's The Baseball Player) he had actually played a baseball player called Grover Cleveland Alexander, who was named after the 19th-century president and former owner of the desk in question.

'I knew then,' Tip revealed later, ' that the nation was in trouble.'

thejollyrodger

How can you support a man who sponsored terrorism in Nicaragua

Its possible even great leaders to make mistakes. His achievements were almost endless, most americans have forgave him for this terrible episode, so have I.

He is giving all gov't employees the day off costing the nation about $67 billion dollars, for a dead guy!

Is that how much it costs A DAY ??? how many people are there?

shotamoose

Originally posted by thejollyrodger
Its possible even great leaders to make mistakes. His achievements were almost endless, most americans have forgave him for this terrible episode, so have I.

That's big of you. Do you think the Nicaraguans find it as easy to forgive? I can tell you for a fact that they don't.

As a matter of interest, how many terrorist attacks and / or murders of innocent people would it take before Reagan stops being a 'great leader'? Do you know how many people the Contras killed?

Hairy Homer

Originally posted by The Corinthian
And for Austria-Hungary, AFAIR.

Well if you can remember Austria Hungary you probably knew RR when he was in short pants. :-)

therecklessone

Originally posted by thejollyrodger
Its possible even great leaders to make mistakes. His achievements were almost endless, most americans have forgave him for this terrible episode, so have I.

Thats nice of you, but isn't that a bit like the Saudi people forgiving the 9/11 hijackers, easy to do when you're not on the receiving end?

thejollyrodger

Im no major fan of the republicans, I prefer the democrats however there are some execptions.

It should be remembered that Regan helped win the cold war and help bring down the fall of communism. He helped ordinary afgans fight the soviets out of their country and his leadership to America was at a time when most americans belived that the presidents job was too big for one person. He helped americans belive that tomorrow would bring a better day, that things would get better, that a son of a drunk could rise to the top and excel at every challange set upon him.



The Nicaraguan affair was not directly linked (legally proven) to RR.

Victor

Originally posted by thejollyrodger
The Nicaraguan affair was not directly linked (legally proven) to RR.

So he had a renegade NSC selling weapons to the enemy, under his watch then?

therecklessone

Originally posted by thejollyrodger
[BHe helped ordinary afgans fight the soviets out of their country [/B]

And financed the training of many non-Afghans who eventually became AQ and Taliban. Well done Gipper.

Spacedog

Can we rename the topic from

Ronald Regan RIP
to
Ronald Regan BIH (Burn In Hell)

what a tyrant.

bonkey

Originally posted by thejollyrodger
It should be remembered that Regan helped ... bring down the fall of communism.

People keep saying this about Reagan, and I keep looking at China and wondering what the hell they qualify as a fall when the most populous nation on the planet still is ruled by that system.

And thats before we look at the other communist nations.

It was the fall of the Soviet Union, or - if you prefer - communism in that region. And it was already doomed long before Reagan got there, by the actions of his predecessors. At best, he can be credited with shortening the demise, which in and of itself may be laudable.

He helped americans belive that tomorrow would bring a better day, that things would get better, that a son of a drunk could rise to the top and excel at every challange set upon him.

Yes indeed. Whatever can be faulted with the man, he is undoubtedly a source of inspiration.

jc

Redleslie2

Originally posted by shotamoose
That's big of you. Do you think the Nicaraguans find it as easy to forgive? I can tell you for a fact that they don't.

As a matter of interest, how many terrorist attacks and / or murders of innocent people would it take before Reagan stops being a 'great leader'? Do you know how many people the Contras killed?

*shakes head, sighs.* There you go again.

TomF

"I distinguish between two kinds of politicians. There are those who view politics as a tactical game, a game in which they do not reveal any individuality, in which they lose their own face. There are, however, leaders for whom politics is a means of defending and furthering values. For them, it is a moral pursuit. They do so because the values they cherish are endangered. They're convinced that there are values worth living for, and even values worth dying for. Otherwise they would consider their life and work pointless. Only such politicians are great politicians and Ronald Reagan was one of them."
...

"In the Europe of the 1980s, Ronald Reagan presented a vision. For us in Central and Eastern Europe, that meant freedom from the Soviets. Mr. Reagan was no ostrich who hoped that problems might just go away. He thought that problems are there to be faced. This is exactly what he did."

In Solidarity

BY LECH WALESA
Wall Street Journal
Friday, June 11, 2004

TomF

The music being played during Reagan's removal was, no doubt, the one every little American school child knows as "My Country 'tis of Thee." It seems to me that the tune was also used for a patriotic song in Norway as well as in England. The thing has a complex and often mistakenly reported history, as the information below indicates (and I am probably only confusing the issue with all this).

The tune for "America" (or My Country Tis of Thee) was first attributed to a German named Siegfried August Mahlmann around 1740 and was called "Gott segne Sachsenland" (God Bless Our Native Land). The tune has also been used in Britain, Scandinavia, and the United States. In 1832, American Samuel F. Smith wrote "My Country 'Tis of Thee" to be sung to Mahlmann's tune. It was first sung in public on July 4, 1831, at a children's concert at the Park Street Church, Boston.

My country,' tis of thee,
sweet land of liberty, of thee I sing;
land where my fathers died,
land of the pilgrims' pride,
from every mountainside let freedom ring!

My native country, thee,
land of the noble free, thy name I love;
I love thy rocks and rills,
thy woods and templed hills;
my heart with rapture thrills, like that above.

http://bensguide.gpo.gov/3-5/symbols/america.html

Text: Der Text wurde von Siegfried August Mahlmann im Jahre 1815 geschrieben. Die "Umdichtung" der zweiten Strophe geschah wahrscheinlich nach dem Tode von Friedrich August II im Jahre 1854.

Melodie: Die Melodie dürfte allseits bekannt sein, es handelt sich um "God save our gracious Queen". Im Original heißt das Lied aber "America, My country 'tis of thee" und wurde 1740 von Thesaurus Musicus veröffentlicht.

I Gott segne Sachsenland,
Wo fest die Treue stand
In Sturm und Nacht!
Ew'ge Gerechtigkeit,
Hoch überm Meer der Zeit,
Die jedem Sturm gebeut,
Schütz uns mit Macht!

http://www.joerg-erdmann.de/sachsen/

Come, Thou Almighty King

Text: Anonymous
Music: Felice de Giardini, 1716-1796
Tune: ITALIAN HYMN, Meter: 664.6664

Come, thou almighty King,
help us thy name to sing,
help us to praise!
Father all glorious,
o'er all victorious,
come and reign over us, Ancient of Days!

http://www.hymnsite.com/lyrics/umh061.sht

The words and tune of God Save the King are anonymous. They may date back to the seventeenth century. The lyrics and tune are sometimes credit[ed] to Henry Carey (1740). The tune first appeared in this form in 1744. It became popular in 1745, the second year of the Jacobite Uprising. After the Battle of Prestonpans, the bandleader of Theatre Royal, Drury Lane arranged the tune and played it at the end of the night - which other theatres picked up and which became customary. The tune became a rallying cry for the House of Hanover. It came to be referred to as the National Anthem at the beginning of the nineteenth century.

http://members.fortunecity.com/dikigoros/godsaveking.htm