D-Day+kids=Hilarity

MrBigglesworth

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml;sessionid=OCP2Z2YM22UTZQFIQMFCM5WAVCBQYJVC?xml=/news/2004/05/30/ndday30.xml

Exit

You know what's scarier than that?

After reading the article, I decided to test it, so I asked my 19 year old brother what D-Day was. His first answer was the War of Independence (who knows which one he meant), his second answer was "something to do with the war" (again, which war?) and he finally got it right on the third attempt ("landing on the beaches in France") But I decided to ask him a couple of other questions and apparently according to him WWI happened in the 1940s and WW2 lasted from 1969-1974. I couldn't believe what I was hearing! The thing is he's not a complete dunce, got a decent Leaving Cert and all that but obviously his answers were the work of an idiot. My ma was a bit better with the answers (knew the exact date of D-Day but wasn't sure what happened) WW1 happened in the 20s and WW2 lasted from 39-44, but still off the mark. Is it unreasonable to think that people should know the dates of both wars, or do most people really not know?

I always believe that wars have very little lasting memory to most people. It seems the only people who genuinely show gratitude towards these men's sacrifices are the people who served with them and are lucky to still be alive, and the descendants of the killed. When that generation is gone, the men, women and children who died in those wars will be long forgotten by the people of the world. It just strikes me how futile war is. Sure, it can achieve aims, but 50-100 years later very few people are actually grateful for the lives that were given to achieve those aims. From a human point of view, you have to wonder what the point is in fighting in a war, especially when the men who are remembered most are the ones who sit in their offices ordering it.

Sorry for posting in an intended humour thread with a serious post by the way.

flogen

stupid kids

*shakes fist*

Flogen

Matt Simis

Originally posted by Exit
You know what's scarier than that?
From a human point of view, you have to wonder what the point is in fighting in a war, especially when the men who are remembered most are the ones who sit in their offices ordering it.

Sorry for posting in an intended humour thread with a serious post by the way.

I think the article showed-

a) Computer Games presented in the right way are a powerful education mechinism
b) History admires the villains, regardless if they were victorious or not..

Twas funny tho.. think Ill test my brother.


Matt

Blisterman

Look at it this way, they're 10-14, you're not allowed see most war movies at that age and unless you have a grandparent who was in worldwar 2, how else are you gonna learn?

Matt Simis

Originally posted by Blisterman
Look at it this way, they're 10-14, you're not allowed see most war movies at that age and unless you have a grandparent who was in worldwar 2, how else are you gonna learn?

Books, the Internet? I think the absurdity of some of the answers was the point moreso than the nitty gritty dates and details.

Besides, theres always rake loads of old war movies on TV.


Matt

lodgepole

Originally posted by Blisterman
Look at it this way, they're 10-14, you're not allowed see most war movies at that age and unless you have a grandparent who was in worldwar 2, how else are you gonna learn?

School?

OfflerCrocGod

I can answer most of those questions easily enough now; but when I was ten?! Fat chance:dunno:, you afto realise at ten most of us knew damn all, I doubt packing children with damn dates will help them "learn" anything. I would be shocked if this was 14-18 year olds, not 10 to 14.

subway_ie

Originally posted by Lodgepole
School?

You don't do any modern european history untill at least 2nd year in school, usually 3rd year by the time you get to either of the world wars, so you can't really expect them to learn about it in school, especially not primary where all you learn is irish history (most of it about crannógs and all that).

Slutmonkey57b

School teaches nothing nowadays don't you know that?

lodgepole

Originally posted by subway_ie
You don't do any modern european history untill at least 2nd year in school, usually 3rd year by the time you get to either of the world wars, so you can't really expect them to learn about it in school, especially not primary where all you learn is irish history (most of it about crannógs and all that).

This was a British article about British children. Hence they would learn British history while we would learn Irish history. A big part of British history is the second world war.

KdjaCL

Thats stupid expecting kids of that age to know details of ww2. I know because i interested it like most people who know things about stuff they interested in.

I know who scored the winning goal in 1970 WC final cos im interested in that , i bet those kids could name most of the 150 pokemon if asked somfin they may be interested.

And why would schools need to go into detail about ww2?


kdjac

Victor

Originally posted by Matt Simis
a) Computer Games presented in the right way are a powerful education mechinism

Well they beat Battle of the Bulge which had a major tank battle in the Ardennes desert. :rolleyes:

Sarky

Ignorance about the Allied leaders, however, contrasted sharply with knowledge about Adolf Hitler. Overall, 71 per cent of the sample and 64 per cent of primary school children were able correctly to name the Nazi leader.

Oh no! Our children are becoming Nazis! Quick, get the emergency Bible!

Borzoi

Originally posted by Blisterman
Look at it this way, they're 10-14, you're not allowed see most war movies at that age and unless you have a grandparent who was in worldwar 2, how else are you gonna learn?

Since BBC2 stopped showing WW2 films on a Saturday afternoon my learning curve flattened out considerably:D

Liquorice

Originally posted by subway_ie
You don't do any modern european history untill at least 2nd year in school, usually 3rd year by the time you get to either of the world wars, so you can't really expect them to learn about it in school

WWI is no longer covered as part of the Junior Certificate history course afaik. All you need to know about World War One is how Germany felt humiliated by the Treaty of Versailles.
It would be excusable for Irish 10-14-year-olds to know little about the World Wars, as WWII is part of the third year course, and not touched before then, and therefore only students with an interest in the wars, relatives who fought in the war etc. would know much. However, the students tested were British, so surely they should know a little bit more than what was shown in the survey, what with Britain being one of the most prominent Allied countries.

fragile

"We do study the Second World War but we do not tend to concentrate on particular military events or leaders. We look at issues that are relevant to children themselves. They learn about evacuation for instance, or the issuing of gas masks."

good thinking that, no time to study history, have to prepare for WW3

bugler

Originally posted by KdjaC
Thats stupid expecting kids of that age to know details of ww2. I know because i interested it like most people who know things about stuff they interested in.

Maybe the fact that they could name Pokemon rather than name anything instructive about the most crucial conflict of modern civilisation is the problem here?

E-D-U-C-A-T-I-O-N ? The whole concept of having a reasonably well rounded knowledge of a variety of subjects even if at a limited level?

If you let kids decide what they study then we may as well jump back up into the trees and start flinging our shit at each other.

It is just another manifestation of a modern day culture that prides little more than fame and self-absorbency. Why learn about world war two when there's Big Brother's Little Brother on? Today people have no concept of what it is to struggle or sacrifice for something, unless it's struggling to sacrifice buying generic product A to buy Generic product A mk2.

/me shakes zimmerframe.

RobertFoster

Originally posted by bugler
Pokemon

That's so like two years ago...get with the times gramps

subway_ie

Originally posted by Lodgepole
This was a British article about British children. Hence they would learn British history while we would learn Irish history. A big part of British history is the second world war.

Well I did say that the Irish history was basicaly Cucullan crap, mostly mythology, a bit of ancient irish stuff - crannógs and all that - definetly not anything in the last 500 years anyway.

Big Ears

Originally posted by subway_ie
You don't do any modern european history untill at least 2nd year in school, usually 3rd year by the time you get to either of the world wars, so you can't really expect them to learn about it in school, especially not primary where all you learn is irish history (most of it about crannógs and all that).

I was just gonna post this , except my school did very briefly go over the world wars , but stangely enough foccusing on world war 1 more .

Barry Aldwell

I've always been very interested in the military, wars etc, and I must say that when we came across World War 2 in 3rd year history I was quite disgusted at how they portrayed it. It gave a very basic idea of what happened, and there was nothing at all on why battles happened. How you can talk about Stalingrad without mentioning oilfields is beyond me.

Damn kids should learn respect for those willing to die for them

lodgepole

Originally posted by subway_ie
Well I did say that the Irish history was basicaly Cucullan crap, mostly mythology, a bit of ancient irish stuff - crannógs and all that - definetly not anything in the last 500 years anyway.

I don't know what school you went to, but in my school we covered quite an amount of more recent Irish history, albeit in a fairly basic manner.

monument

You mean them things in computer games and films really happen?

the_syco

There were some exceptions to the general ignorance. One teacher at Great Addington Church of England Primary school in Northamptonshire was amazed to find that one of his pupils had scored 100 per cent in the test.

He said: "I asked him how he knew material which we had not covered in school. He told me he had picked it up from a D-Day game he played on his computer."

SEE??? SEE??? Games DO teach something. And they said it was all in my mind.

BlitzKrieg

tends to level out by a later age as men (mostly anyway) start buying books on specific battles and start watching documentaries about them on history and discovery. My friend and I use to be the only ones interested when i was 10-13 but by 17 to 18 most of my friends had started watching discovery and history channels and would talk about famous battles in between arguments over man utd and these other football clubs that i know nothing about. (I support newcastle cause i like the jersey:D)

Books, the Internet? I think the absurdity of some of the answers was the point moreso than the nitty gritty dates and details.

I know university studants in England who wont touch a book unless they HAVE to so how do you expect them to start reading about wars? (Kinda destroys my previous argument...hohumm.)


On the teaching of history in schools...they tend to focus on the whys and consequences rather then the events in the war itself.

embee

For 10-14 year olds, the most significant world event that they would have been aware of would be September 11th.....

I'm sure kids to have social awareness about the unrest in the world. My young cousins frequently ask me questions about Iraq, September 11th etc.

World War II has no real significance anymore to these kids. Its not a daming indictment on the education system, rather I think the visual impact of events like September 11th and news coverage of the war in Iraq will stay with them longer than some history lessons.

rs

You think it's bad over here and in the UK.?

In Canada, European history (1900 onwards) is an optional course taken in the last year of secondary school (Grade 12). And most people don't take it, meaning of course that most adult Canadians have no idea about either WWI or WWII.

However, they do spend several years leaning about canada's 300 year history. Most of which seemed to focus around building a railway line from one side of Canada to the other.

It was soooo interesting.

bean

Many people think it is irrelevant. WW2 changed the course of the world affairs socially, politically and geographically to a huge extent. Its a huge reason the middle east is in turmoil, how the US became superpower, how afghan and osama led a campaign against USSR and ultimately 911, the list goes on. Wes hould know these knock on effects, those who forget history and their mistakes are doomed to relive it

Exit

Originally posted by rs
You think it's bad over here and in the UK.?

In Canada, European history (1900 onwards) is an optional course taken in the last year of secondary school (Grade 12). And most people don't take it, meaning of course that most adult Canadians have no idea about either WWI or WWII.

However, they do spend several years leaning about canada's 300 year history. Most of which seemed to focus around building a railway line from one side of Canada to the other.

It was soooo interesting.

According to a Canadian I just asked, History (1890-1990) is compulsory in Grade 12. In order to graduate, History and English are subjects that you must do. Although, bizarrely, you can drop Maths if you want.

monument

Originally posted by Exit
Although, bizarrely, you can drop Maths if you want.

... something to do with the fact most people will never use half of is in leaving cert math?

Big Ears

Originally posted by embee
For 10-14 year olds, the most significant world event that they would have been aware of would be September 11th.....

I'm sure kids to have social awareness about the unrest in the world. My young cousins frequently ask me questions about Iraq, September 11th etc.

World War II has no real significance anymore to these kids. Its not a daming indictment on the education system, rather I think the visual impact of events like September 11th and news coverage of the war in Iraq will stay with them longer than some history lessons.

As a 14 year old myself , I have to say u are right . (except in my case , im a bit weird because I like history and could answer those questions in the article , and have finnished reading my eek school history book , despite not being in 3rd year yet , Im a freeak ) . I doubt any of my friends would know hardly anything on WW2 , but would know a lot lot more on Sept 11 and war in Iraq . Then again most of my friends are thick as ......em something thats realy thick .

Hecate

One 10-year-old in a Northamptonshire school thought it was the day the "Americans came to rescue the English".

Thats quite close to the truth actually....

BlitzKrieg

quote:

---

One 10-year-old in a Northamptonshire school thought it was the day the "Americans came to rescue the English".

---

[Thats quite close to the truth actually....[/quote]

actually they came alot earlier then d-day with the Africa campaign, Italy and other similar operations. Look out for guinness books of military disasters there are some great stories about some of the first battles American troops were involved in...


what confuses me though is that to the average male i thought world war 2 was interesting???



ITS THE CRAB PEOPLE!!! they are making us weak by making us care more about big brother and football then about our history AHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!! RUN FOR THE HILLS!!!!

Winters

D-Day does not directly releate to just World War II btw ...

D-Day is actually a name given to the day upon which a operation [Such as the invasion of Nazi Occupied Europe, Overlord] takes place. It is a common misconcerption that only the 6th June 1944 is known as D-Day.

H-Hour is the time at which an operation taking place on D-Day will start.

Yea, all kids should have some, if even basic knowledge of WW2.... if even only in the countries whos ordinary people actually fought in and gave their lifves etc..

Dolan84

Someone pm Tellox, isn't he like 12 or something? I suppose he'd know more about handbags than he would war, heard hes a bit camp (wears makeup and such).

billy the squid

The school I went to had history as an option subject. you could either do history or geography. History should be compulsary in my opinion. It is only by learning from the mistakes made in the past can we make a better future.

Irish history should have decent coverage of World War 2 nearly 10 percent of the male population of ireland went to fight in the War.

As for World War 1 Ireland was directly involved as a member of the brittish empire.

Cabaal

Originally posted by Dolan84
Someone pm Tellox, isn't he like 12 or something? I suppose he'd know more about handbags than he would war, heard hes a bit camp (wears makeup and such).

lol, funniest thing I've heard all day

dam stupid ****en gits
I'd be scared to ask some American kids these questions :dunno:

jill_valentine

The thing is, kids, particularly British school kids, have an awful lot else to worry about, and the history course, like all modern education, is geared towards doing well in tests rather than learning anything. Its not fair to expect them to be interested in something that has no direct impact on their lives. When they're older, they may or may not take an interest, or they may take an interest as a sort of hobby, but at 10-14, they have no reason or incentive to.

I'm not saying its right that they should be this ignorant, I'm just saying its not entirely the kids' fault.

SantaHoe

WW2 wasn't even touched on when I was in school, right up until the junior cert... even the details of the 1916 rising were foggy at best.
I didn't take history for the leaving, so it was probably covered in more depth there.
There's plenty of time to learn about WW2, I don't think there's any reason to crap your knickers because some 10-year-old hasn't been exposed to the names and dates involved.
Just sit them infront of Discovery channel for a few hours, tbh I'm hooked on WW2 documentaries

jill_valentine

Sidebar: My little brother has turned into a big WW2 anorak largely sparked by MOH Underground.

Sarky

GURPS WW II.

All I ever wanted to know. From What German troops caried to stats on the Bizmark.

Cabaal

Originally posted by jill_valentine
Sidebar: My little brother has turned into a big WW2 anorak largely sparked by MOH Underground.

Now for all those people that have always said otherwise
Games ARE educational! :-)
I'm sure BF1942 has got people into learning about WWII as well

Sarky

Don't forget heavy metal. Specifically Iron Maiden and Metallica...

jill_valentine

Games ARE educational! :-)

Heh, almost my entire Junior Cert English essay was Sniper Wolf's final Speech with a few adjustments. I felt a little bad about it, but then spliced together Otacons and Donald Anderson's speeches for my Leaving.

BlitzKrieg

did u pass?

jill_valentine

A in honours.

In fairness, I actually did have a knack for English, and I really only borrowed elements of it. I seemed to be able to write what they wanted of me. With the sole exception of one essay (That I'm still proud of) which had perfect grammar, spelling etc, but was Lord Help Us! Horror, about a man who gets lost on his way to Dublin Airport, in a Twilight Zone kinda way.

MGS got me interested in both the ethics of Nuclear proliferation and the treatment of the Kurds (and tangently, the desert Arabs) so I had actually read up a lot on both, just out of interest, before the exams came up.

Best Luck ever: A passage in the Irish Honours Mock. About the X Files...I didn't have to read the passage at all.

Raskolnikov

As already pointed out, 10-14 year olds aren't given an in depth treatment about the battles of WW2. You've got to remember that kids that age are still learning to read and write properly, it's asking a bit much to have them to know the details of a 60 year old battle. Of course, you could argue that by reading newspapers, watching news, etc they should know about this. I ask you though, when you were all 12 year old nippers, did you nerd up on the news or papers or did you go out and kick a soccer ball up and down

Victor

Originally posted by Raskolnikov
I ask you though, when you were all 12 year old nippers, did you nerd up on the news or papers or did you go out and kick a soccer ball up and down

"nerd up on the news or papers"

jill_valentine

Really? I mean, yeah, from about 15, 16 I developed a proper interest in politics and history, but I hated the bloody news. I did nerd up though. I was, I believe, one of the select few who knew what a Paleantologist was before Friends...

bugler

It has nothing to do with expecting youngsters to know the details of specific battles. No one would ask that, and indeed at times such knowledge could be a little sinister

The problem is the fact that some of them have little to no idea of the general nature of many things that are important historically.