settle a bet!

gaui3d0pnbz86o

a tenner rides on this so i hope im right!

you know the eposide where the enterpise is trapped in super super super slow time and it looks like a romulon is attacking the enterprise?

well in the engine room a explosion is taking place, and who draws a smily face on the cloud from the explosion. data or picard?

thanks

Grow up, kids

data

User45701

both wrong,
noone draws it piccard trips and sees the smilty face
he then stars laghing

Ro: maaan!

User's right.

Donate the tenner to charity.

bizmark

Picard drew it ye muppets

"he triped and seen it" WTF! he was going some what nuts from the effect of that arm band drew the face and busted his ass laughing at it till he had a slight mental brake down

He tripped and seen it ?? i mean come on ......what one of the crew in super slow down mode went out of there way to draw a face on the warp core breech :rolleyes: (which wouldnt be possible anyway seeming it would be normal time for them)

Peace

Originally posted by bizmark
Picard drew it ye muppets

"he triped and seen it" WTF! he was going some what nuts from the effect of that arm band drew the face and busted his ass laughing at it till he had a slight mental brake down

He tripped and seen it ?? i mean come on ......what one of the crew in super slow down mode went out of there way to draw a face on the warp core breech :rolleyes: (which wouldnt be possible anyway seeming it would be normal time for them)

Correct.... tripped and saw a smiley face.. WTF?

User45701

He didnt draw it,
he started laughing they looked over and piccard was just pointing and laughing at a smiley face.
Either
1. He drew it (we didnt see that)
2. He just saw it because of (i cant remember but i think it was the effect of time dialation on his blood but that makes no sence, mabe it was lack of oxygen or something, hmm i cant remember what was wrong with him)

But we didnt c him draw it i always assumed he saw it, all in his head. Makes me wish i had TNG on DVD and then i could see what was wrong with him cause it is starting to pisss me off now i cant remember what was said about his condition.

l3rian

that was a good episode, doesnt make any sense, but still an interesting episode


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smiley

In "Timescape", an episode of Star Trek: The Next Generation, Captain Jean-Luc Picard laughed hysterically at a smiley he carved in a cloud of smoke that was frozen in time. The cloud was a product of a warp core explosion.

bizmark

Originally posted by User45701
He didnt draw it,
he started laughing they looked over and piccard was just pointing and laughing at a smiley face.
Either
1. He drew it (we didnt see that)
2. He just saw it because of (i cant remember but i think it was the effect of time dialation on his blood but that makes no sence, mabe it was lack of oxygen or something, hmm i cant remember what was wrong with him)

But we didnt c him draw it i always assumed he saw it, all in his head. Makes me wish i had TNG on DVD and then i could see what was wrong with him cause it is starting to pisss me off now i cant remember what was said about his condition.

Jesus h christ user

P-man drew it he didnt imagen it seeming data and troi where looking at it and no one else drew it because data and troi didnt draw it its simple bloody logic!

The_Bullman

Jean Luc drew it-just before he went nuts

gaui3d0pnbz86o

i thought myself Picard drew it,

hurra i win!

azezil

*sigh* user u muppet bizmarks right, picard draws the smiley face and starts laughing

---

he gots the crazy brain worms! O_ó

User45701

All im saying is we didnt see him draw it,
as i remember he is pointing and laughing at a smily face in the clowd.

Dats wouldent laugh but mabe he would say "what is so humeropus about a smiley face outline in a warp core explosion)
and troi might have smilled at it thinkin it was kinda funny

I dont remember any other reaction out of the other chars

Also if you touched a explsoion regardless of how slow it was going that explosion would still vaperiase your finger becvause the temperture within the gas explosion would be constant.

Tazzle

heat transfer requires time, so it wouldn't

vibe666

Originally posted by bizmark
Picard drew it ye muppets

so sayeth I.

He was having a 'funny moment' due to side effects on the arm band he was wearing to keep him seperated from the frozen time scenario thingy 9as were data and troy) but it had started to drive him a bit fruity, so he drew the face in the cloud and then started to laugh as he pointed it out to the other two, expecting them both to find it as funny as he did (which they didn't).

bizmark

Originally posted by User45701
All im saying is we didnt see him draw it,
as i remember he is pointing and laughing at a smily face in the clowd.

Dats wouldent laugh but mabe he would say "what is so humeropus about a smiley face outline in a warp core explosion)
and troi might have smilled at it thinkin it was kinda funny

I dont remember any other reaction out of the other chars

Also if you touched a explsoion regardless of how slow it was going that explosion would still vaperiase your finger becvause the temperture within the gas explosion would be constant.

Give it up will ya you lost!

Dats wouldent laugh but mabe he would say "what is so humeropus about a smiley face outline in a warp core explosion)

No id say there would be quite worryed that there captian has gone somewhat mad

Ro: maaan!

Hm. I assumed he imagined it. The rest of them didn't seem to notice it there. Either way, you don't see him drawing it.

bizmark

Originally posted by Ro: maaan!
Hm. I assumed he imagined it.

You assumed wrong

_Kaiser_

You see Picard looking at the frozen cloud of smoke... the picture changes to Data and Troi.. Picard starts laughing, the picture changes back to show a smiley face in the cloud and Picard pointing at it... (I think we can assume he did it )

No, I don't have the episode on here at the mo..just remember that scene

User45701

Im sticking with he imagined it, we wont ever resolve this so i suggest we leave it before this gets damgerous *user gets his prototype type 11 hand phaser ready*

bizmark

Originally posted by User45701
Im sticking with he imagined it, we wont ever resolve this so i suggest we leave it before this gets damgerous *user gets his prototype type 11 hand phaser ready*

ER we wont resolve it ??? :rolleyes: ffs lad he didnt imagen it

gaui3d0pnbz86o

*user gets his prototype type 11 hand phaser ready*

whoops i started a war!

User45701

There is no proof that he drew it.
I dont think he could have drawn it - if u stick ur finger into a warp core explosion its not going to be all right after

Ro: maaan!

I really want to watch that scene again...

I don't know what to believe.

bizmark

Originally posted by User45701
There is no proof that he drew it.
I dont think he could have drawn it - if u stick ur finger into a warp core explosion its not going to be all right after

Heat transfere takes time user hes finger wouldnt of been hurt because of the near lack of time on board the ship

User45701

i must ask someone who does physics and get them to tell me can u stick ur finger into a explosion even if it is going several hundread times slower then normel time.
The tempeture inside the explosion would still be to hot and would burn ur finger off me thinks

Woden

yeah you are right, you'll quicker burn the crap out of your hand on anything hot, the larger the temperature differential the quicker you'll burn the crap out of yourself.

newtons law of cooling follows an exponential decay to equilbrium

data

Ro: maaan!

So... he couldn't have drawn it?

bizmark

He bearly touched it 1 or 2 seconds at most

how could he burn his finger off if there was little to no time on the ship

Woden

Originally posted by Ro: maaan!
So... he couldn't have drawn it?

i don't know the context of the episode tbh. what he drew the smiley face in the steam from a warp core explosion?

i wonder how far time was slowed down also?

data

Michael Collins

Also it couldn't be giving out that much heat as time was slowed down, and the conservation of energy would apply. Which means that all the lights on the ship shouldn't really have been giving out light either but that would've been stupid...

Picard draws it, and then points at it as if it's hillarious (and it is!) then bursts out laughing. I think they should've just continued on with the epsiode, as if Picard just decided to make a joke...

Ro: maaan!

They say how long it will take for the ship to explode from the breach in the ep. Can't remember how long it is, but shouldn't be too hard to find out. Though I know it was something pretty small like 7 hours. Not slowed down all that much really.

Woden

any one with an estimate on how long a normal warp core explosion takes, so we can get a slow down rate?

bizmark

anytime you see a core going bang it only takes a fracton of a second to destroy the ship

Ro: maaan!

Yeah, pretty much I suppose. They always have time to get everyone out of Engineering first though. Presumably the explosion bit with all the gas doesn't start until after that. Anyone know if there are other people in Engineering at the time in that ep?

bizmark

Originally posted by Ro: maaan!
Yeah, pretty much I suppose. They always have time to get everyone out of Engineering first though. Presumably the explosion bit with all the gas doesn't start until after that. Anyone know if there are other people in Engineering at the time in that ep?

Thats not the core going bang though the computer always and i mean ALWAYS gives you the time to big bang to the nearest second so you can get the **** off the ship

there was a load of people in engineering but there where stuck in the super slow down mode

Ro: maaan!

Yea... So that means they still had a fair bit of time, say 1 - 2 minutes before it exploded. So if it was 7 hours (not that I can remember) it wouldn't have slowed down as much as if it was gonna explode in a few seconds...

bizmark

No seeming time speeded up again to normal speed and the ship exploded with in 10-20 seconds or something

Ro: maaan!

Yes. I forgot that. Really have to watch the episode again.

I just don't know. Maybe he did draw it...

Woden

well then assuming the normal time that pased in slow down time was negligble, and that the ship was then thus exploded in 20s.

20s in the normal frame equates to 7 hours in the slow frame so thats 25200 seconds.

so 1 second equates to 1260 seconds

or 1 second of normal time is 7.94 X 10 ^-4.

so saying it took 5 seconds to draw the smiley face then picard had his hand in the steam/smoke/coolant for 0.004s or 4 milliseconds.

i reckon that would be enough to cause pain if that was very hot stuff, but who says the steam/smoke/coolant stuff was hot

Woden

anywho there is a hell of a lot of assumptions about things we know nothing about here so lets just leave it at that

vibe666

maybe it was smoke from a dry ice machine, and they were just having a really slow disco.

if that was the case then it wopuldn't have been hot at all.

Sefrian

its not an assumption if you prove that his hand would have combusted if he drew....
so user i agree with ya picard did not draw it

Ro: maaan!

Ok. Thought I'd drag this back up 'cause I just watched the episode in question. And after they get Picard back to normal after the incident they're explaining to him what happened. Data says he "experienced temperal narcosis in the same way as deep sea divers experience Nitrogen Narcosis". I took the time to look up Nitrogen Narcosis, and one of the symptoms is hallucinations. Now I'm not saying this proves Picard imagined it, but it's certainly a possibility, and enough to give those of us who thought he did imagine it the benifit of the doubt. Also Data and Troy look hella confused when Picard starts laughingm, as if they can't see the face...

Here comes the science!

Anyway, make up your own minds. I'm on User's side, more than ever!

Boston

Originally posted by Dataisgod
anywho there is a hell of a lot of assumptions about things we know nothing about here so lets just leave it at that

isn't how hot something is directly related to how fast it molecules vibrate (amoung other things) therefore velocity equals distance over time, if time slows down then so does heat. In fact shouldn't they have all frozen to death?

Btw Data definitely drew it as a piss take.

bizmark

Picard drew it ffs

Woden

Originally posted by Boston
isn't how hot something is directly related to how fast it molecules vibrate (amoung other things) therefore velocity equals distance over time, if time slows down then so does heat. In fact shouldn't they have all frozen to death?

Btw Data definitely drew it as a piss take.

yes temperature and velocity are inserpable classically anway E = 1/2*m*v^2 = 3/2*k*T

where k is the boltzmann constant = 1.38 * 10^-23 J/K iirc

for a give temp then rearrange for v

however if time slows down i.e less time because velocity is inversely proportional to time velocity and therefore temperature should increase.

Boston

Originally posted by Dataisgod

however if time slows down i.e less time because velocity is inversely proportional to time velocity and therefore temperature should increase.

That's not how time works, time is explained through quantum mechanics as a discrete quantity. Its not something that is continuious but rather something that goes in very short intervals of delta T, as delta T tends towards 0, time tends to be continuious, however in slowed down time delta T tends towards some number other then Zero (maybe infinite, and Delta T is larger (change in time hop) Now as you know the velocity formula is bases on T1 - T2 or Delta T. Delta is getting larger, therefor Veocity (and conversely temperature) is getting smaller. This result leads me to the conclusion data did it, as he was the only one not freazing his balls off.


Q.E.D

Woden

i've disagree with this for a number of reasons that my brain has yet to come to terms with at this hour of the morning. for a start the boundaries between the application of quantum mechanics and those of classical mechanics is blurry, so we shouldn't be using classical mechanics in one instance and talking about quantum mechanics the next.

the main thing that quantum mechanics does to any system i.e the major difference between classical and q mech is that by its very nature q mech is probabilistic, also q mech then deals with discrete quantities rather then continous henced the quantized

now if you're looking at the time evolution of the the system through various delta T's the smaller you make the delta T's which you say will approach continutity, the larger the uncertainty in the energy that will arise due to the heisenberg uncertainty princple.

imo one cannot look at slowed down time so simply as it means you have switched reference frames i.e slowed down compared to what is the first question you ask? the people or molecules that are in the same frame as the slowed down time will not considered it to have slowed down if they are part of the frame. rather they will see the other frame moving very quickly but that doesn't mean that the other frame is absurdbly hot either

Boston

alas Time is a discrete quantity so you have to look at it that way. Of course this is a gross over simplification of the case, once which would make my physics teacher cry. I'll admitt I know sweet FA about termodynamics which isn't purely physics in nature, so I can't really comment with certainty on the issue. But this is my positions, based up with half assed theories and proof. you can neither prove or dis prove this opinion, in the same way i can't disprove yours

Woden

Originally posted by Boston
you can neither prove or dis prove this opinion, in the same way i can't disprove yours

of course by definition you can't prove or disprove any opinion.

what is not opinion though is that if you are looking at very small time intervals then the uncertainty in somethings energy becomes massive to fit in with the heisenberg uncertainty principle.

large flucuations in energies will mean large fluctuations in temperatures, imo i don't think time is a good way to look at this issue and ro: maaann's method is better