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utv still being blocked by tv3!!!
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Originally posted by TVDX
A Northern Irish person can watch all regions of ITV by simply adding them to "Other channels"
I think some sky cards will allow the decryption of all ITV services, even though they are in "other channels".
Btw. This is my 200th post!!!
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Originally posted by PK - the king
This is why ITV can not (logically) go free to air:
I cant believe this has gone virtually unchallenged. Everyone was probably waiting for me! I havent had the time, now I have. So here goes....
1) Programming Rights: Carlton & Granada produce many of the television programmes that are aired on practically all of the ITV channels, programmes such as Coronation Street, The Bill, Hell's Kitchen etc. Each ITV station must pay ITV Central the programming rights to air these programmes. Why would ITV make any move to go free to air? That would mean that there would be no real financial benefits. For example, The Bill is aired at 8pm Wednesday's & Thursday's on UTV. Thames Television in London does not show the bill. Thames Television would therefore not be too happy about losing viewers to UTV, which would be free to receive anywhere in the UK if it went FTA, and TTV advertisers wouldn't be too happy either; which brings me onto my next point.
Wrong. ITV's schedule is almost always identical now, not like 20 years ago when programmes were not networked at the same time. Only UTV has a major "prime-time opt-out" when it shows Kelly in Friday nights. Regional Programmes are show at Thursday 7:30pm and outside of peak times. So what you typed is a load of guff.
2) Opt-out advertising: Unlike the BBC which is totally licence fee funded, ITV depends entirely on advertising for it's revenue funds. In the long run, the ITV network makes more money out of Opt-Out advertising (or regional advertising) than it would if it just had advertisements aired right the way across the UK. If ITV went free to air, it could mean viewers could pick 'n' mix between the different ITV stations and regional programming. This means that they may be receiving advertisements from other areas, which means advertisers are wasting their time paying for opt-outs when they're not being viewed. Also, ITV makes more money in the sense that if an advertiser does want their advertisement to be aired UK-wide, they have to pay each ITV regional station separately for the advertisement space. This way, ITV makes more money, as, if the advertisers were to pay just one amount to ITV, less money would be made.
ITV buys the advertising for each other region, in fact, SMG and UTV get ITV to buy the national advertising for their region. One point about the merger of Carlton and Granada was what to do with the two sales houses that each company had. It was seen from Sky and Channels 4 and 5 that they controlled too much, and that it would be fair to have that level of competition. But, the (then) ITC decided that that was the only reason for the merger, so it went ahead and now there will be one national sales team for the entire ITV network.
3) Regional news: Allthough this does not apply too importantly, if ITV went free to air, how do you go about selecting your ITV region for all of your local programming? What if you only watch ITV free? What if you get the free to air install option, and therefore do not have a card (meaning your box will not know your postcode or region)? How do you select your region? You can't! There is no option to do so! Sky won't implement a menu (because why are they going to help ITV develop a free to air system, meaning sky lose out on million's of pounds a year worth of DVB VG encryption contracts? The only way to watch your own region is to tune it in in "Other Channels". And this also poses the question; which ITV region should be the "Standard" region for a brand new sky digibox?
As I mentioned before, do like the BBC did, they got a deal with Sky to get the right region on 101 and 102, and the rest of them down the 940's. ITV would utilise that.
Unlike a Sky Digibox, other FTA recievers can be programmed to the way you want. You could have the GOD Channel on 666! There is talk of the BBC having a branded FTA setup, like Freeview for DTT, and as sure as eggs are eggs, they would want the EPG lineup to have the 4 terrestrial networks for your region at the top of it. But over 95% of all satellite receivers in the UK are Sky Digiboxes, so it won't matter that much.
4) ITV Sports Rights: Some sporting coverage lineup differs from station to station. ITV don't want a person in Ireland being able to tune into, say ITV Wales and watch a free football match, when TV3 or other station have to pay up for the rights in Ireland. This means a loss of revenue for the already loss ridden broadcaster.
Not an issue, as ITV have moved away from regional sports rights (except Scotland where Scotsport is still on the air on Sunday afternoons, albeit with club rugby and the choice of Scottish Division 1 soccer) Also, during most Sundays during winter, the same branded "Soccer Sunday" is show right through England and Wales, with emphasis on local teams (ie what was Anglia on Norwich and what was HTV West now "ITV West of England" showing Swindon.) As ITV own the national rights to highlights of the Football League, this is a good way of getting what the viewer wants.
In years gone by, the Rose's cricket championship game was shown on only Granada and Yorkshire, that wont happen again.
Lets set one thing straight, ITV is not a poor outfit, they were able to write off ITV Digital with debts of over £1bn stg, and did such a job that it did not hit their coffers!!
5) TV3: Imagine TV3's reaction if UTV went Free to air? Why would there be any point in them shelling out millions of euro for programming rights when people just tune into UTV and get the programme in widescreen? TV3 could very easily boycott ITV networks, and Granada wouldn't want that!!!
TV3 dont pay that much for rights, they have a benelovant owner!
So you see, the whole encryption issue here is mostly about securing separate programming rights for each ITV broadcaster region and making as much revenue as possible from "Opt-Out" advertising systems.
Now, TVDX & others, I hope this answers your query on ITV/Free to Air issue.
20 years ago, maybe. Not now. ITV is not the animal that had Thames Television make its last broadcast to London in 1992. Its no longer a federation of 16 contractors, its a huge broadcaster. There is NO money to be made for making local regions pay the other regions for their programming, they are one of the same. Only UTV, Channel and SMG in Scotland make this arrangement still exist, as they are outside of ITV plc. All they have to do is pay a rate to get access to those programmes, for the size of their market. Its not a two-way street, like when was the last ITV networked broadcast by UTV or Channel?
And so we return to the topic. UTV is blocked on satellite because? Yes, that's right, they don't pay for RoI rights to ITV programmes. The reason why they are still on cable and MMDS is because of when they asked the other companies back in the 80's to do this, there was no hint of a TV3, let alone Granada owning it or ITV becoming the huge monolith that it is.
Now, if you don't mind....
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I see.Originally posted by BrianD
It would be unfair to allow UTV on a platform when they are paying less than TV3 for the same programmes.
Is it not unfair competition then when one programme provider insists on this regionalisation when it is to their advantage but doesn't when it isnt.
They would have a case in court to have the discrepency between the satellite regionalisation of rights and the non regionalisation with cable and terrestrial overturned.
Of course brining that in front of a judge might mean that the rights holders would review the situation and that review might not be to TV3's advantage
Having said that ultimately it is now ITV plc that has the final say in this.
Imagine a situation where Eircom were able to claim exclusive rights to broadband in the Republic and they objected to ESAT BT or UTV clicksilver coming in.
The UTV conundrum is a symtom of the lack of regulation in the TV area.
Such a lack of competition breeds restrictive practices one of which TV3 is taking advantage of...
namely- 300,000 plus Republic of Ireland homes receiving UTV for which UTV receive a fee from the cable companies.
- 300,000 plus homes in the same Republic who receive their TV via satellite being treated differently for the purposes of extracting more profit for programmes.
Actually in the case of the former, theres a very good case for a class action by Sky subscribers in the Republic against the rights holders and TV3.
That from my knowledge in the area could more like result in an equalling of status through allowing UTV onto Sky for a fee rather than a closedown of UTV on the cable companies.
I fully expect ITV to go FTA later in the year anyhow as the BBc experiment has been so sucessfull.
I wonder what TV3 will do if ITV go FTA...cry?0 -
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I'm referring to both TV3 and the rights holders.Originally posted by BrianD
Who are you referring to?
RTÉ have bought rights to programmes for the Republic which the BBC also show free to viewers with digiboxes without cards in the ROI...
So the rights holders have double standards already or rather TV3 are forcing them to have double standards by forcing them to insist that UTV does not appear on Sky while TV3 hold ROI rights.
No thats technically incorrect.At th moment both Tv3 and UTV have monopolies on certain programmes within their franchise areas.
Tv3 is receivable via aerial and amp free to air over a vast proportion of NI.
The vast majority can receive it.
Have a look at the chimneys across the North, the vast majority have two, while in the "south" only the East coast,the Midlands and areas bordering NI can do that.
It's entirely impossible in Munster ( unless you have 100ft of ironmongery and watty to help out )
So the vast bulk of the Republic by contrast either have to pay cable/mmds fees for UTV or they don't have it all if they have Sky( unless they have a FTV card )
Aerial reception of UTV is not widespread in the Republic.
Therefore I contend that UTV's situation is an anomoly...exacerbated by conditions which favour TV3 and thats the unfairness of the competition.
I'd have to disagree with you there as without the cable companies retransmitting UTV on their systems, and it is a re-transmission , NTL and chorus customers who also form part of the Republics geographical area ( and are included in the numbers to calculate TV3's charge for the programmes ) would not have UTV.I can see no grounds for a class action case against the TV rights holders as ultimately they are allowed to sell on a geographic basis.
So why don't TV3 appeal to the E.U commission to have their rates reduced as the cable viewers should be excluded due to the commonality of viewers?
As I contended earlier, it's because the outcome of such a review would overturn their current favourable position and rebalance the market more competitively.
TV3 essentially opperate in a protected market which RTÉ do not in the sense that it hasn't blocked the BBC's decision to go FTV on satelite.
Ok RTÉ have the licence fee, but if we go into the whole argument of who produces quality Irish programmes and who does not, TV3 would come out of that one very bruised.
Again I have to tell you that, that is not the case, because RTÉ did not object to the BBC being freely available on Dsat in the ROI yet they show a lot of common programmes.At the end of the day it appears that it is the rights holders who hold all the cards. If UTV or TV3 have to bid a high price to show a particular programme than I can't blame them for protecting those rights.
That situation actually underlines the contention that it is TV3 that is Blocking UTV on Dsat, the rights holders are only a convenient tool in the blockage.
Why can't TV3 embrace the competition like RTÉ have??0 -
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