[article] They Have'nt Gone Away You Know!

mike65

From Indo -

SINN FEIN merchandise, including an IRA t-shirt and a black ski-hat embroidered with the phrase 'Tiocfaidh Ár Lá', has provided the PDs with ammunition in the run-up to the elections.

Progressive Democrat TD Fiona O'Malley has called on Sinn Fein candidates to "stop the hypocrisy and wear your own clothes" rather than "slick designer suits" out on the hustings.

However, the stunt was dismissed as an "election gimmick" by Sinn Fein TD Aengus O Snodaigh, who said: "The Sinn Fein shop has been open for a number of years and people can come and go."

The PDs yesterday dressed up a dummy in the Sinn Fein official clothing and paraded it on Dublin's Stephen's Green for a photoshoot.

"This is what an honest Sinn Fein candidate would look like. Instead we are getting designer-look campaign posters," explained Ms O'Malley.

The items had been purchased by her colleague, Roscommon councillor Hugh Lynn, who paid a trip to the official Sinn Fein shop and purchased some €60 of merchandise which included an IRA Undefeated T-Shirt, a black windcheater embroidered with the 'Tiocfaidh Ár Lá' logo and a 'Sniper at Work' lapel pin.

He also purchased a CD entitled 'Stuff Your Commission' - of which the lyrics include the chorus: "No semtex nor our guns will you ever get from us, You can stick your decommission up your a**."

Cllr Lynn said he had been 'shocked' by the inflammatory nature of the items on sale.

Sinn Fein TD, Aengus O Snodaigh said the dressing up of the dummy had been a 'gimmick' designed to clash with the launch of their campaign for a No vote in the referendum on citizenship.

Nicola Anderson

SF may call it a stunt but the gear in the shop was real and the attitudes behind the label badge slogans are real enough so whats the problem Aengus?

Mike.

Villain

Originally posted by mike65
From Indo -



SF may call it a stunt but the gear in the shop was real and the attitudes behind the label badge slogans are real enough so whats the problem Aengus?

Mike.

Cheap election stunt, as it was stated the shop has been opened for years and its only in the run up to an election that the PD's decide to raise this.

/waiting

For the SF bashing to start all over again and reefbreak and cork to say the same things over and over again

/waiting

Sand

Question: Why are SF, a wholly respectable political party with a democratic mandate and absolutely no connection to the IRA or their activities selling IRA branded merchandise?

I am tired of hearing SF dodge the difficult questions being put to them by resorting to "gimmick" and " stunt". Maybe it is, the question still stands?

The only conclusion you can draw is that a vote for Sinn Fein is a vote for the Warrington bombers.

sceptre

I'm going to skip the SF bashing, though part of me quite likes the possibility of doing SF and PD in one post. Especially the PDs.

I see O'Sondaigh stayed away from the phrase "cheap publicity stunt", although if they managed to get that amount of gear for 60 euros the shop doesn't appear to be price-gouging.

If the stuff's on sale (and it is), can anyone think of a basis for O'Snodaigh's complaining other than a whinge that someone might not vote for someone as a result of a patent fact being publicised? After all, the stuff /is/ on sale.

Villain

Originally posted by Sand
Question: Why are SF, a wholly respectable political party with a democratic mandate and absolutely no connection to the IRA or their activities selling IRA branded merchandise?

Its clothing for god sakes.

Originally posted by Sand
I am tired of hearing SF dodge the difficult questions being put to them by resorting to "gimmick" and " stunt". Maybe it is, the question still stands?

Sand I dont think that Sinn Fein are doing themselves any good by selling such articles but its part of their history, It would be a lot more concerned if they were supplying guns or semtex, a few songs and t-shirts wont hurt anyone.

And Sand
I'm tired of people saying things like this:

Originally posted by Sand

The only conclusion you can draw is that a vote for Sinn Fein is a vote for the Warrington bombers.

daveirl

This post has been deleted.

Villain

Originally posted by daveirl
So you think that Orangemen walking down Garvaghy Road is acceptable then? A few songs about an event 400 years ago won't hurt anyone will it?

You have the CHOICE to walk in and buy the articles, people on the Garvaghy Road do not have the choice of whether or not they want the Orange order to walk outside their homes.

Daveirl I dont think you can compare the two at all.

daveirl

This post has been deleted.

Villain

Originally posted by daveirl
Yes you can compare the two. I don't have a choice if the person walking against me down the street is wearing a shirt that basically endorses the killing of innocents and the person on Garvaghy doesn't have a choice.

Both actions are inciteful and hate filled.

Your comparing 1 person wearing a t-shirt to the Orange Order marching through your estate????

Come on seriously:dunno:

daveirl

This post has been deleted.

Villain

Originally posted by daveirl
Yes I am. It wasn't me who said "a few songs and t-shirt never hurt anyone" One rule for them and another for us is it?

So are you claiming that there aren't hundreds of victims of the IRA who wouldn't be offended by people wearing those t-shirts? I'm not claiming that the Orange Order aren't offensive at all. Just claiming that someone wearing a Sniper at Work t-shirt is offensive.

Well if a few hundred of IRA supporters marched through a mainly Unionists area wearing the T-Shirts and singing those songs yes then of course they would, I really can't see how you can compare

I don't have a choice if the person walking against me down the street is wearing a shirt that basically endorses the killing of innocents

With:

Orangemen walking down Garvaghy Road

I mean its completely different.

daveirl

This post has been deleted.

Villain

Originally posted by daveirl
I never said they were identical. I just said they were comparable. I'm not the one back peddling here.



So the T-Shirts could be offensive then? I thought it was just "clothing for God sakes"

Peddling?? lol

I said in regards to one off people buying them not a few hundred people marching through a Unionist estate with them, which I said would be offensive, sorry if you wanted me to say thats ok and increase your moral high ground.

You compared the 2 and I said they weren't comparable, youve gone as far as saying there not identical so why just agree there not compareable??:D

Peddling :rolleyes:

daveirl

This post has been deleted.

Villain

Sorry daveirl just being a while since I peddled anywhere

Can I see your point of view and as I said earlier:

Originally posted by irish1
I dont think that Sinn Fein are doing themselves any good by selling such articles but its part of their history, It would be a lot more concerned if they were supplying guns or semtex, a few songs and t-shirts wont hurt anyone.

BuffyBot

Election gimmick or not, doesn't negate the fact they they are for sale.

It would make you wonder about exactly how serious SF take things at times :dunno:

David-[RLD]-

Fascinating...

So what if they're on sale? It's just clothes. What if someone wore a pro-Bush t-shirt? That's supporting the torture and killing of innocents; look what the US army did in Iraq.

"Tiocfaidh ár Lá" is a slogan. A slogan! That's all! It doesn't matter if it's the slogan of an "illegal organisation". It doesn't insult anyone, it just says 'our day will come'. What's the harm in that?

/me waits for ReefBreak to burst in wearing his underpants on the outside and an 'RF'-emblazoned cape.

David-[RLD]-

BTW it doesn't matter if Sinn Féin sell them. Just go to T-Shirt Print and for just over €20 you can get a t-shirt with any slogan you want.

Meh

Originally posted by David-[RLD]-
So what if they're on sale? It's just clothes. What if someone wore a pro-Bush t-shirt? That's supporting the torture and killing of innocents; look what the US army did in Iraq.

"Tiocfaidh ár Lá" is a slogan. A slogan! That's all! It doesn't matter if it's the slogan of an "illegal organisation". It doesn't insult anyone, it just says 'our day will come'. What's the harm in that?

The point is that on the one hand, Sinn Fein claim to be a respectable democratic peaceful political party with no connections whatsoever to the IRA or terrorism. On the other hand, the official Sinn Fein shop sells IRA-branded merchandise. Do you see the contradiction here?

My problem isn't that Sinn Fein are selling the t-shirts -- while I personally find them distasteful and offensive, it's a free country and people have a right to wear what they want. No, my problem is with the hypocrisy and doublethink coming from Sinn Fein, where they simultaneously claim to be democrats and at the same time support illegal anti-democratic terrorist organizations.

BTW it doesn't matter if Sinn Féin sell them. Just go to T-Shirt Print and for just over €20 you can get a t-shirt with any slogan you want.

What's your point? T-Shirt Print aren't standing for election. Again, my problem is not with the t-shirts themselves. Just to reiterate:

• Sinn Fein sell IRA t-shirts - OK by me
• Sinn Fein claim to be a democratic peaceful normal political party - OK by me
• Sinn Fein try to do both of the above at the same time - not OK

Redleslie2

It's always funny when people who support the Iraq war complain about SF's association with naughty violence, especially after US troops just controversially liberated a village wedding or whatever.

SF should point out what a fine advert for PDesque privatisation and deregulation Abu Ghraib prison is or something.

mike65

Redleslie2 - Lazy arguement must do better.

Mike.

Victor

The items had been purchased by her colleague, Roscommon councillor Hugh Lynn, who paid a trip to the official Sinn Fein shop and purchased some €60 of merchandise which included an IRA Undefeated T-Shirt, a black windcheater embroidered with the 'Tiocfaidh Ár Lá' logo and a 'Sniper at Work' lapel pin.

Headline

PDs finanacing [strike]IRA[/strike] Sinn Féin

Redleslie2

Originally posted by mike65
Redleslie2 - Lazy arguement must do better.

Mike.

I realise that you're the king of the asinine one line posts so you probably know a lazy argument when you see one, but why?

mike65

It's always funny when people who support the Iraq war complain about SF's association with naughty violence, especially after US troops just controversially liberated a village wedding or whatever.

SF should point out what a fine advert for PDesque privatisation and deregulation Abu Ghraib prison is or something.

Well because the thread is about the IRA and SF (can't really part the two it seems) NOT iraq or indeed anywhere/anything else.

If you're going to post keep to the subject rather than doing what SF members do - distract and dissemble.

Mike.

TheMuckyArab

Hey i`m all against socialism(being a rich and greedy bastard myself) but the PD's are going to far on the Sinn Fein bashing.

As the SF'er said it`s all about period in time, before we were taught about the heroes of 16, what's the diffrence?

The Provisionals did`nt wake up one day and decide the "take back the north", they provided protection for their people, who's fathers , brothers and sons were being intered and tortured(What makes me laugh is the British Army goes on thats what the stuff they did in Iraq once a once off), and all this apparent proof McDowell has provided us with has yiether yet to be substaniated, or is like that brilliant IMC report, which most comically had three lads the Provo`s wewre supposed to have killed, but up until then their families had been informed they had died in accidents(which they did), and one died in RUC custody!

See this for what it is a PD stunt done by Mr. McDowell who is nothing but an opportunist, combining this with his racial referendum(which as a mucky arab I don`t feel partial to ;-) )

DEPORT MCDOWELL- cause he a stinker and just plain rude, forget about the politics.

AmenToThat

Originally posted by mike65
From Indo -



SF may call it a stunt but the gear in the shop was real and the attitudes behind the label badge slogans are real enough so whats the problem Aengus?

Mike.

I would imagen hes point is about the timing as has been said here by others.
The shinners have been selling this stuff for years and no one batted an eye now suddenly its big news...................

Seems like a desperation stunt by the PDs to me.

BlitzKrieg

wouldnt IRA merchandise be similer buying merchandise based off the confederate army from the american civil war? Though i can see it being more offensive because of the timespan is much shorter...


on the double standards of Sinn fien...

the way i see it they get their votes from 2 main sources. People generally in support of their policies and political goals.

and people who see them as the most nationlistic of the parties of ireland because of their connection with the IRA and in the north.


and as a political party standards go out the window when it comes to getting more votes...so appeal to both sides of the coin and if you pull it off i applaud you...

gandalf

Well as much as I hate the PD's cheap election stunts especially if that useless lump of "My Daddy was in Politics" Fiona O'Malley is involved they have highlighted the hypocrasy of Sinn Fein.

On one hand we are to believe that they are working with the Peace process to bring NI to a brighter future but on the other they are celebrating an organisation that was involved in terror campaigns and sectarian killings. Sinn Fein is an organisation that claim not to have direct connections with the IRA yet they are selling goods that are branded with the IRA's name and celebrating its killing of others. I like many other believe that many leading members of Sinn Fein are still involved in the IRA, we do know of some that have been in the past.

I agree with the assessment of others here, if you vote for Sinn Fein you are voting for an organisation that has a private army, an army that seems to be out of control and involved in Racketeering. I would prefer not to vote for murderers.

I saw someone mention the heroes of 1916 and try and compare them with the current IRA. There is no comparison. The current bunch are just a crowd of Mafioso using a brand name to appear more attractive to the gullible.

ReefBreak

Originally posted by irish1
Cheap election stunt, as it was stated the shop has been opened for years and its only in the run up to an election that the PD's decide to raise this.

/waiting

For the SF bashing to start all over again and reefbreak and cork to say the same things over and over again

/waiting

First of all, I have no problem repeating the thing over and over again, simply because I believe that the memory of those murdered by SF/IRA is worth far more than than anything that Sinn Féin may promote on the front of a blood-thirsty t-shirt. (Yes, here we go again). Aengus may call it a gimmick, I applaud the PDs for being the only party that reminds the public what the Sinn Féin/IRA were resonsible for - the murder of hundreds of innocent people.

daveirl

This post has been deleted.

Villain

Originally posted by ReefBreak
Aengus may call it a gimmick, I applaud the PDs for being the only party that reminds the public what the Sinn Féin/IRA were resonsible for - the murder of hundreds of innocent people.

ReefBreak I really resent the way you blaim Sinn Fein for the murders of hundreds of innocent people.

Sinn Fein are a polictical party with LINKS to the IRA they are not the same organisation.
If I wanted to draw comparisons maybe I could say that the FF/Bush administration is responsible for the killing of hundreds of inoccent people in Iraq and the torture and murder of prisioners.

However I have enough of an understanding to see that even do FF have supported the Bush war in Iraq by allowing thousands of Soldiers to use Shannon airport, they are not the same organisation they are simply 2 groups with LINKS.

colster

Originally posted by irish1
ReefBreak I really resent the way you blaim Sinn Fein for the murders of hundreds of innocent people.

Sinn Fein are a polictical party with LINKS to the IRA they are not the same organisation.
If I wanted to draw comparisons maybe I could say that the FF/Bush administration is responsible for the killing of hundreds of inoccent people in Iraq and the torture and murder of prisioners.

However I have enough of an understanding to see that even do FF have supported the Bush war in Iraq by allowing thousands of Soldiers to use Shannon airport, they are not the same organisation they are simply 2 groups with LINKS.

That isn't comparable and you know it. How many FF members are members of the US Army. How many SF members are members of the IRA?
How much power over the US Army does FF have?
How many members of SF are members of the IRA's army council?
Have SF ever condemned or dis-associated themselves from the bombings, murders or punishment beatings committed by the IRA.

colster

Originally posted by TheMuckyArab
Hey i`m all against socialism(being a rich and greedy bastard myself) but the PD's are going to far on the Sinn Fein bashing.

As the SF'er said it`s all about period in time, before we were taught about the heroes of 16, what's the diffrence?

The Provisionals did`nt wake up one day and decide the "take back the north", they provided protection for their people, who's fathers , brothers and sons were being intered and tortured(What makes me laugh is the British Army goes on thats what the stuff they did in Iraq once a once off), and all this apparent proof McDowell has provided us with has yiether yet to be substaniated, or is like that brilliant IMC report, which most comically had three lads the Provo`s wewre supposed to have killed, but up until then their families had been informed they had died in accidents(which they did), and one died in RUC custody!

See this for what it is a PD stunt done by Mr. McDowell who is nothing but an opportunist, combining this with his racial referendum(which as a mucky arab I don`t feel partial to ;-) )

DEPORT MCDOWELL- cause he a stinker and just plain rude, forget about the politics.

Since when is Warrington, Enniskillen or Omagh self defence?

Villain

Originally posted by colster
That isn't comparable and you know it. How many FF members are members of the US Army. How many SF members are members of the IRA?

To my knowledge answer to both is 0

Originally posted by colster

How much power over the US Army does FF have?

They have the power to not let them use Shannon and disaccoiate themselves from the war.

Originally posted by colster

How many members of SF are members of the IRA's army council?

Answered above to my knowledge 0, and I haven't seen anyone convicted of such either.

Originally posted by colster

Have SF ever condemned or dis-associated themselves from the bombings, murders or punishment beatings committed by the IRA.

The IRA haven't carried out any of these to my knowledge in years they are on a cease-fire

Have the government dis-associated themselves from the illegal war and murders of innocent women and children???

While the cases maybe not compareable there aren't a million miles apart either.

colster

Firstly the Irish government have condemned the war. While it's a disgrace that Shannon is being used.
SF don't have any moral right to condemn since they have supported and been active in the IRA over the troubles.

Secondly, by most observers there are 2-3 member of SF on the IRA army Council. Adams, MacGuinness and Kelly are the usual suspects.

Thirdly, the IRA may be on ceasefire but it doesn't stop the punishment beatings, the spying/targetting and the continual links to other terrorist organisations around the world.

Another point is that SF have no respect for the properly constituted police force in this country.
The support of the release of Garda McCabe's murderers is a case in point. Their veiled support of vigilantism is another.

While I commend their major role in the peace process I despair at the hesitancy to say the war is over, decommission or disband the IRA.
I despair at the fact that they sell triumphalist paraphanalia as a means of supporting themselves.

Villain

Colster,

Firstly:The Government comdemning the war and still allowing them to use shannon is nothing short of Hypocritical.

Secondly: I dont believe Adams or other SF members are on the IRA army Council and I haven't seen any evidence to show such either.

Thirdly: The IRA are on a ceasfire, there may be breakaway units that are engaging in activity but the IRA as a group have not broken that ceasfire.

On you comment about the McCabe prisioners, theres a long running thread where I have talked that to death, have a read.

I commend you for being able to see that SF are playing a major role in the Peace Process, somethings others here simply can't.

In Relation to selling of the t-shirts and cd's I have stated my already in this thread.

Mercury_Tilt

This post has been deleted.

colster

Originally posted by irish1
Colster,

Firstly:The Government comdemning the war and still allowing them to use shannon is nothing short of Hypocritical.

Secondly: I dont believe Adams or other SF members are on the IRA army Council and I haven't seen any evidence to show such either.

Thirdly: The IRA are on a ceasfire, there may be breakaway units that are engaging in activity but the IRA as a group have not broken that ceasfire.

On you comment about the McCabe prisioners, theres a long running thread where I have talked that to death, have a read.

I commend you for being able to see that SF are playing a major role in the Peace Process, somethings others here simply can't.

In Relation to selling of the t-shirts and cd's I have stated my already in this thread.

Yes the government may be hypocritical but I say again what moral right have SF to condemn the government for backing an illegal war?

I have to disagree with you on Adams or members of SF being on the Army council. McGuinness and Kelly have already admitted to having been members of the IRA.

On the peace process yes SF have played a major role. I commended SF for doing the right thing. But, I think the amount of kudos they seem to be given by others and themselves is laughable.
They did the right thing. We only had to wait 30 years and 1000s of dead for the republican movement to do the right thing.
But having taken that step they still obfuscate and try to exact every last morsel of benefit from the continued existence of their illegal army and weapons.
Why don't they now have the courage to make the final step. To finally give the people of the north, britain and ireland the thing they deserve.

A FUTURE WITHOUT THE THREAT OF VIOLENCE.
DECOMMISSION AND DISBAND THE IRA.

Why won't they do this??

And while the government may be hypocritical about allowing the use of Shannon. I'm free to criticise them and vote for or against them in freedom.
With SF they have always had that implied threat about them. Parties and people have bitten their tongues and thread on egg shells around them. They brought them in from the cold.
Has SF ever thanked or commended them for this?

They had to swallow the releas of murderers. What have SF had to swallow. By calling a ceasfire!! (I was going to say giving up the armed struggle but I don't believed the have.) That may have been difficult for them but hey it was the least they could do.

SF seem to think that everyone else owes them something.
I'd contend that SF owe the people a lot lot more. I mean all the people of the north, britain and ireland when i say this. I don't just mean their own constituency.

It's about time they realised this.

colster

Originally posted by Mercury_Tilt
:rolleyes:

Because there is a market for it... its part of the/their Irish republican heritage, there is money and Kudos in it for them while appealing to their original political base?

Now... why does Ireland keep churning out boy bands when everyone hates them and slags them off? huh?

How can you trivialise this?

There are people who are genuinely offended by this. It's not a funny matter. It's serious to a lot of people.

We have a right to criticise SF for selling this stuff.

In my opinion you're wrong to poke fun at people who are offended by it.

Mercury_Tilt

This post has been deleted.

Mercury_Tilt

This post has been deleted.

Villain

Colster I didn't see anywhere in MecuryTilts post where he poked fun at anyone.

Getting back to your last post, you said

Originally posted by colster
Yes the government may be hypocritical but I say again what moral right have SF to condemn the government for backing an illegal war?

The same moral highground that the government have to slate SF while they support an illegal war, come on Colster we could spin this one a hundred ways.

McGuinness and Kelly have admitted to being members of the IRA in the PAST I haven't seen anywhere they admit to being current members, if you have evidence of such I'd like to see it.

In regards to the peace process I agree something should have happened sooner but as I have said in the past

people can stand still and look to the past or they can move on and look to the future, I prefer the later.

The reason they haven't totally decomisioned is because they want parts of the GFA that benefit them carried out also. I mean they decomissioned large numbers of weapons which the Unionists wanted then they wouldn't accept it because they weren't given numbers makes and models:rolleyes:.


As for the SF threat, I think your going a little OTT there, and I think the government would rather see them out in the cold rather than bring them in.

If you dont believe they have given up the armed struggle I think you need to look at the current situation again.

I dont think SF think people owe them anything.

colster

Originally posted by Mercury_Tilt

---

I really don’t see what the problem is here with a SF shop selling Republican merchandise. You can pick up a Wolfe tones CD and many others of their type in HMV et al.

I can see the virtue of another political using any means(and in this case I think a good one) to score points over another one…. Not unlike mike65 pulling Redlesile on his “weak” argument because it suits him yet letting Daveirls even looser one slip by.

But in all honesty it really is just merchandising which brings in money.... and yes it can be offensive to one group of people..as can any thing really.... but its not the best or most rounded political ball to be kicking about.

Look I think there is some validity in that comparison but still we have the right to criticise SF for doing this. Just as we have a right to criticise any other party.
The difference with SF is that they are selling this paraphanlia of a still existing illegal organisation.
The other valid comparison to make is with the brown paper envelope culture in FF.
While the brown paper envelope is legally corrupt the IRA paraphanalia is insensitive, morally corrupt and perhaps illegal too (or should be).

For a party which says it's sensitive to the feelings of all the victims of the struggle it's pretty hypocritical.

BuffyBot

Now... why does Ireland keep churning out boy bands when everyone hates them and slags them off? huh?

Apples and oranges tbh.

They may be bad, but I don't remember them killing anyone and having t-shirts sold about it.

colster

Originally posted by irish1
Colster I didn't see anywhere in MecuryTilts post where he poked fun at anyone.

Getting back to your last post, you said


The same moral highground that the government have to slate SF while they support an illegal war, come on Colster we could spin this one a hundred ways.

McGuinness and Kelly have admitted to being members of the IRA in the PAST I haven't seen anywhere they admit to being current members, if you have evidence of such I'd like to see it.

In regards to the peace process I agree something should have happened sooner but as I have said in the past


The reason they haven't totally decomisioned is because they want parts of the GFA that benefit them carried out also. I mean they decomissioned large numbers of weapons which the Unionists wanted then they wouldn't accept it because they weren't given numbers makes and models:rolleyes:.


As for the SF threat, I think your going a little OTT there, and I think the government would rather see them out in the cold rather than bring them in.

If you dont believe they have given up the armed struggle I think you need to look at the current situation again.

I dont think SF think people owe them anything.

Comparing IRA paraphanalia with boy bands. Hmm... that doesn't seem to be trivialising it does it?

What evidence do you have that they IRA decommissioned large number of weapons?

If the armed struggle is over why do the IRA and their arms still exist. Why are they still spying/targetting etc.

Villain

Originally posted by colster
Comparing IRA paraphanalia with boy bands. Hmm... that doesn't seem to be trivialising it does it?

What evidence do you have that they IRA decommissioned large number of weapons?

If the armed struggle is over why do the IRA and their arms still exist. Why are they still spying/targetting etc.

Hmmm You said poking fun now your saying trivialising
Anyway heres how I know:

On 8 April 2002 the International Commission on Decommissioning issued a report stating that it had witnessed an event in which the IRA leadership has put a varied and substantial quantity of ammunition, arms and explosive material beyond use.

On 21 October 2003 the IICD witnessed a third event in which IRA weapons were put beyond use in accordance with the Governments' Scheme and Regulations. The arms comprised light, medium and heavy ordnance and associated munitions. They included automatic weapons, ammunition, explosives and explosive matériel. The quantity of arms involved was larger than the quantity put beyond use in the previous event.

In accordance with the Governments' Scheme and Regulations, the International Commission on Decommissioning have made an inventory of the arms concerned, which they will provide to the two governments when their task is completed.

On 21 October 2003 the IICD witnessed a third event in which IRA weapons

bugler

Eh, can I just get this right:

Irish1, you;

a) Don't think there is any member of SF who is in the IRA.

b) Don't think that any of the top members in SF are on the Army Council of the IRA.

c) Don't think the IRA has been behind any punishment beatings since they went on ceasefire.

Are you playing dumb as a deliberate tactic, or are you genuinely naive enough to believe those things?

As for why the IRA should still be going, well it keeps Thomas Murphy from having to be known as an out and out criminal, the veneer of respectability that being a paramilitary commander gives is quite useful. No one want to give up a career that has brought them such vast wealth (reputedly over €50 million isn't it?)

colster

Originally posted by Mercury_Tilt


I do hope I have explained myself to your satisfaction and you all do indeed have a right to criticise SF for selling the stuff and do a bit of republican bashing while you are at it. Dont be worrying about the sensitivities of any poor ickle republicans who may have had their kith and kin killed during the conflict by the way.

And how am I doing this? I fail to see how criticising SF selling IRA paraphanalia is doing this.
Sniper at Work badges!!! Hmmm... so that's commemorating replublican dead is it.
Have you ever heard me criticising commemorative services that SF have.

To me the services seem to be a more appropriate way of commemorating the republican dead. Sniper at Work badges don't!!!

They're just a seedy offensive way of raising money worse than the brown envelope culture of FF.

Villain

Originally posted by bugler
a) Don't think there is any member of SF who is in the IRA.

At present that is what I believe

Originally posted by bugler
b) Don't think that any of the top members in SF are on the Army Council of the IRA.

At present that is what I believe

Originally posted by bugler

c) Don't think the IRA has been behind any punishment beatings since they went on ceasefire.

I believe members of the IRA have carried out such attacks but I dont believe the organisation is directly organising these

Originally posted by bugler

Are you playing dumb as a deliberate tactic, or are you genuinely naive enough to believe those things?

As for why the IRA should still be going, well it keeps Thomas Murphy from having to be known as an out and out criminal, the veneer of respectability that being a paramilitary commander gives is quite useful. No one want to give up a career that has brought them such vast wealth (reputedly over €50 million isn't it?)

I've just stated what I believe and answered all your questions, which is not something that all SF bashers here do. Still waiting for ReefBreak to retract his statement in the McCabe thread.

colster

Originally posted by irish1
Hmmm You said poking fun now your saying trivialising
Anyway heres how I know:

It's funny how SF and their followers pick and choose the independent commission to support and not support isn't it.

When one commission suits them they use it and when another one states that the IRA are responsible for abduction of Bobby Tohill they reject it.

If you can accept the findings of one Independent COmmission why can't you accept the findings of the other?

Villain

Originally posted by colster
It's funny how SF and their followers pick and choose the independent commission to support and not support isn't it.

When one commission suits them they use it and when another one states that the IRA are responsible for abduction of Bobby Tohill they reject it.

If you can accept the findings of one Independent COmmission why can't you accept the findings of the other?

Have a look at the makeup of the two boards!

I provided facts instead of accepting them you go back to SF bashing, I wish people would come up with something new to bash them for.

I find it really funny that people are so fond of bashing SF while the Government of the day who are actually running this country have feck all said against them, I mean I opened a new thread this morning which shows that legislation that the current government passed has a MAJOR LOOP HOLE which could result in people caught speeding getting off scot free.

But instead of discussing that or other storys about the government including the 1 in the INDO about them giving false information regarding waiting lists, people just come here and bash SF over some t-shirts and cds there selling.

I think people need to think a bit more.

Having said that looks like the PD's stunt didn't work too well in the real world, haven't found anything on it in the sunday papers.