dish size for turksat @ 42E

Galway

any advice as to the dish size needed for (i) analogue and (ii) digital channels on turksat @ 42 east in the Galway area. I find it a very hard sat to pick up- very low elevation. Also arabsat seems very week at 26 E, it is feasible here.Have 1metre funke dish and syntec 0.3 dual LNB

Ronan|Raven

Im in the same position as yourself, find it very hard to get a good signal off the turksat, im using a 1metre dish here with a .6db lnb in Roscommon County.

I was able to get some signal off Arabsat a while back, havent looked in a while however. You could try the following transponder on Arabsat to see how you get one with it.

11843 H 27500 3/4

I know people in galway get a fair amount of channels using 1m on arabsat. Let us know how ya get on.

Zaphod

Originally posted by Galway
any advice as to the dish size needed for (i) analogue and (ii) digital channels on turksat @ 42 east in the Galway area. I find it a very hard sat to pick up- very low elevation. Also arabsat seems very week at 26 E, it is feasible here.Have 1metre funke dish and syntec 0.3 dual LNB

You can forget the East beam - much too weak.

The West beam for Turksat should be possible for a 1 metre dish. We were recently testing out a Technisat flatpanel dish, which had terrible gain, but it still managed to bring in the EurasiaSat West beam also at 42E (CNN and BBC World India). I make out it was functioning similar to a 50/60cm dish.

Just remember that as you are moving the dish that far east, you will also have to twist the LNB to account for the skewed polarisation of the signals coming from the birds.



Arabsat is much more difficult and I doubt anything under a 1.2M would work well. Although the C-Band signal is quite strong.

watty

S1 and West beam fine here nr Limerick on 80cm dish (digital).

Note a 0.3db LNB may be worse than a good 0.6dB.

Analog may need a larger dish.

Arabsat 26E needs a much larger dish, I can't get a sniff of it.

Ronan|Raven

Having talked with some lads on another forum from the wesht of this fair land they are reporting fairly decent amount of reception from Arabsat on 1 and 1.2m dishes.

Galway

no not a thing. astra 28 E is 99% sgn quality sod dish is follwoing arc there.

Another one I find very hard to line up is 5W and the French analogue channels vert prone to sparklies in any sort of rain moisture.I have 1m , funke high gain dish and 0.3 syntec dual output LNB.

Hispasat on 30W is booming through but signals decline between 7 east and 8 west

Zaphod

Originally posted by Galway
no not a thing. astra 28 E is 99% sgn quality sod dish is follwoing arc there.

Another one I find very hard to line up is 5W and the French analogue channels vert prone to sparklies in any sort of rain moisture.I have 1m , funke high gain dish and 0.3 syntec dual output LNB.

Hispasat on 30W is booming through but signals decline between 7 east and 8 west

You could receive 28E and 30W with a rusty frying pan, so that's not much of a test. Funke dishes have a good reputation, however, so you should be able receive 42E.

First, check that your elevation is correct by entering your lat., long. and dish position here:
http://www.satsig.net/ssazelm.htm

Then set the elevation for the dish. Most offset mounts have markings on the back. The dish will be almost parallel with the ground for 42E. And twist the LNB to allow for skew. Tune the receiver to one of the channels (eg CNN) and monitor the signal level while moving the dish *slowly*. A compass will give you a rough idea of where 42E is, as long as you don't put it too near the dish.

Are you sure that no tree, building, mountain is blocking your line of sight?

Galway

well i have a fixed 80 cm channelmaster dish for SKY to left of it on same side of house (other end - side wall face south so thats why dishes are there) maybe that is blocking 42 east?

there is just nothing even on analogue 26 east is very poor with digital breaking up. sat man her tomw to try to sort arc prob. he could not get it set up properly on 8 west last time (true south here in galway area). I am amazed the funke dish isnt doing better. maybe the LNB skew needs adjusting too

halkar

With 1m dish and .6db LNB I get all of the West and S1 channels on 42E, also get around 100 channels on Arabsats at 26E near Tullamore

Smeagol

@Halkar
and watching MBC2 a lot, don't you?
@Galway
Turksat here in Co. Sligo with a 90cm mesh dish, some sparklies on analogue.
5°w french analogue channels also with a 90cm mesh dish perfect picture on good day in Laghy, just outside Donegal town.
On Arabsat 26°e, tried with same dish, to no result. Will try with my 180cm Channel Master dish later in summer.
Good luck

Galway

do u get sparlklies on 5west french channels when it rains.

Tullamore is further east so may just catch stronger beam on turksat, we may be just too far west

Ronan|Raven

MBC2 has a great line up on it. A football game every saturday and then lots of the latest english language tv shows and films. It's the only real reason (along with Al Jazeera sport) that id like to pick up that satellite again.

watty

5W analog french fine here Nr Limerick on Lidl 80cm dish via loop out on Palcom DSL4 digital.

Hellas Sat and Turksat both fine on Digital.

halkar

@Smeagol
No MBC2 for me , I am moving around tequilas for movies and NTV on 42E for quality NBA

Galway

5 west should be pretty much the same here as in limerick no? we have found it very tricky to get on the arc on a motorised system. sat man coming bakc next week. we line it ok on 5W then lose 28.2 east and other to the east of 5 west are then down too

Ronan|Raven

Maybe and id say there is a good chance the mount isnt properly straight.

Eurorunner

Either a) the mount isnt 100% vertical

OR

b) you have a duff motor which has 'play' in the arm (...which is my scenario )

Galway

actuallyi have a proper 'bolt on' jaeger 128 H to H motor - not that diseqc crap which has play in the motor. MY locks solid on to a given sat position and there is no play at all.Its obviously the arc.

halkar

Galway, try getting AtlanticBird 2 on 8W instead of 5W. This should be your due south. There is not much strong signal there (you can try data signals too, usualy stronger). That is how I setup my motor. Your motor will be slightly to left from the center of the pole when you look from the front. If you can hit the AtlanticBird2 the rest of the birds should fit in easily.
All the best.

watty

There is mount elevation and dish declination.

At due south if one is wrong and the signal is brought perfect by adjusting the other wrong too then you wont track, it will either be too low or too high at the east/west.

The pole has to be really vertical too, though if it slants true North or true south, obviously that can be compinsated in mount / motor elevation.

A Goto X system is easier to alaign as you don't need to to use the weak 5W or 8W signals. You line up dish / mount correct and select Hispasat (very strong and no similar strength nearby). Then you wiggle the whole mount assembly slightly on pole to peak the signal. Your mount is now aligned true Nrth/Sth as long as you put the correct local Latitude and Longtitude into the Receiver GOTO X (USALS) setup menu.

All the other positions will now be correct.

With non-GotoX each position needs found and you can't easily tell if your East/West alignment is correct. With Goto X, if ANY correct satellite is at the menu position, they are all correct and the mount East/West is correct, only the Mount elevation and Dish declination then needs finetuned.

If the pole is vertical and the mount has a good Elevation scale then ONLY adjust dish Elevation/ declination to peak the signal.

halkar

If I am not mistaken Jaeger 128 is a 36v motor and most of Diseqc and USALS stuff will not apply to it. You set it manually as you find the birds and store the locations.
Galway, I have given my Mount elevation in this forum, if your pole is straight I think those values might work for you too. I think values were, Mount elevation in mid 30s and Dish elevation 24-26 .

Galway

thanks halkar.where r u based?

Yes the jaeger is proper 36 V motor - moves much faster between stored sats and there is no play on motor.Previously had a manhatten diseqc motor whose mecanism was damged by the gales - dish would just collapse at some points on the arc and the only time u could watch 5W was when there was no wind at all - rare!

halkar

I am near to Tullamore, I am guessing the settings would be almost same or close enough to your settings.

Winds are pain, I do have problem with gales too. Try putting support arms from your LNB holder to dish if there isn't any fitted. You can add these yourself with two sheets of metal attached to your dish and LNB holder. This helps a bit sometimes.

Galway

well with the new motor and lightweight funke 1m high gain alloy dish it seems alot better. u would be suprised how much the signal drops off this far west - take a look at the footprints for 42 E and especially 5 west and 1 west. My sat man is coming later in the week so hopefully we can sort out the arc problem.

I think 42 east is being blocked by my 80cm channel master fixed dish for sky which is to right of main dish on same wall. i can get right to 43 west in the other direction. turksat isnt too much of a loss but i cant get anything east of Astra 2 spot.

dogz

im in dublin and can get 42 east to 58 west using an 80cm solid dish and a motor.
the dish is about 8 feet up on a pole in my back garden and 58 west gives me an 80% signal

Galway

this far west things are probably different footprint can drop off rapidly on some of the weaker satellites. not much anyway before 28.2 east and after 43 west

snaps

Galway,
I am in the city of Galway and I can get 42East with a rusty old 60cm (Only S1 and west beam though) since NTV changed transponders onto the east beam I can't even get it on my 90cm. Now in this part 42East is very low, So low that I had to modify my 60cm mount as it would drop that low elevation wise. Also I found that scewing my lnb helped a lot with 42east. It is 13 degrees in elevation which is very low indeed. 26east is possible with a 90cm, MBC2 is more than possible as with half the transponders on 26east. 5east you should be able to get with a 1metre here in Galway as I could get it now problem. I changed my .3lnb back to an old trusty cambridge .6lnb which I find works much better on all sats. Good luck mate.

halkar

Snaps, NTV Int is on 12715 V 2966 West beam. As good as NTV with live NBA coverage:D

Zaphod

Originally posted by snaps
Galway,
5east you should be able to get with a 1metre here in Galway as I could get it now problem.

Does this include channels on the Nordic beam? eg Viasat Info, 11804, V , 27500, 3/4?

halkar

Originally posted by Zaphod
Does this include channels on the Nordic beam? eg Viasat Info, 11804, V , 27500, 3/4?

I think you need something bigger than a 1 meter dish for Nordic beams. I don't get any signal for Nordic beams with 1.1m Triax dish and .3db lnb. No problem with European beams though

snaps

You will not get 5east (Nordic beam) in Galway with a 1metre dish. Only european beams is possible.

Zaphod

Originally posted by halkar
I don't get any signal for Nordic beams with 1.1m Triax dish and .3db lnb.

OK, that's what I suspected. From other forums I've seen reports from some parts of the UK (e.g. East Anglia) that can receive it 24/7 with a 60cm dish!

Anyone here from Northern Ireland able to test out the Nordics on 5E?

Galway

Actually i was talking about problems with 5 WEST not east! It seems tricky to line up the arc on motorised dish

Zaphod

Originally posted by Galway
Actually i was talking about problems with 5 WEST not east! It seems tricky to line up the arc on motorised dish

5 East is more interesting.

Both beams (wide and super) are about 48dBW across Ireland. 60/70cm should suffice - even in Galway!

http://www.satcodx-op.com/EUT/uke/coverage.cgi?EUTAB3WB
http://www.satcodx-op.com/EUT/uke/coverage.cgi?EUTAB3SB

Eurorunner

@Zaphod: Are you getting the more interesting channels on 5*E with <80cm ??

I have a 80cm lid and cant pickup the sirius 2 stuff - my understanding was that this was the case for most people in ireland. In fact, as far as i was aware, even a 1m dish wouldnt do the trick.

hmm...you must be right on the east coast then. Are you aware of anyone else picking these channels up in ireland with 80cm dishes?

Zaphod

Originally posted by Eurorunner
@Zaphod: Are you getting the more interesting channels on 5*E with <80cm ??

No, afraid not. Not on the east coast either, but the south west. I was wondering if anyone further north had seen anything.

We've never had a glimmer from the Nordic beam and that's with a 2.4M dish. Soon going to try out one of these Invacom LNBs to see if it makes any difference, though I have my doubts. Our current feedhorn has a teflon tab in its throat for circularly polarised signals, so that might be causing a drop in signal.

Mr.M

thats a strange one allright if you can't get anything from that sat with that size of a dish. my 1m is able to pick up a signal from the nordic beam of 5e with my .3db lnb. it's unwatchable( only about 15% strength) but when i had my 1.2m up on the nordic beam of 1w(thor3) i was able to get 25% strength on it. you should be able to get more channels with that size of a dish.

forgot to say i'm in mayo.

Zaphod

Originally posted by Mr.M
but when i had my 1.2m up on the nordic beam of 1w(thor3) i was able to get 25% strength on it.

Definitely 25% on Thor 3 at 0.8W? That's this beam
http://www.satcodx-op.com/THO/usa/coverage.cgi?THO003KU
and something like Eurosport 12476, H, 27800 3/4.

What's your reception of Thor 2 like in comparison? Should be much better.
http://www.satcodx-op.com/THO/usa/coverage.cgi?THO002KU
e.g. TV4 Sweden 11.216, V, 24500, 7/8

kramlq

I am in Clare and a few months ago I switched my dish (the 80cm one bought in LIDL) over to 42e. All west beam channels were fine. S1 beam channels were watchable (50+% on my receiver) but would probably break up in very heavy rain.
In analogue, west beam fine, but S1 beam channels had some sparklies. Its certainly was of the more powerful sats I can receive- about 110 channels total. Sadly, CNBCe and discovery switched to east beam shortly afterwards.

@watty - you're in Limerick right? Surprised you never get arabsat - It took a while to learn how to tune it in (due to strength of 28e) but now I got the hang of it I can lock onto about 80 chs (40 FTA) on a sunny clear day. Time of the day seems to matter a lot.

As for 5e:
- Sirius 2 BSS beam is fine.
- Sirius 2 FSS beam most ok ('appeared' a few months ago and fine ever since)
- Sirius 2 Nordic beam in digital (11747V) nothing received, but judging by the analogue (12437V) pictures I get I would be surprised if 1.2m didn't work.
- Sirius 3 Nordic is nothing but noise!

1w:
- Intelsat 717 - most ok - really needs 1m+ by the look of things
- Thor 2 Nordic - can lock most channels on a clear day, but need a 1m+ judging by the FTA channels to make them watchable
- Thor 3 Nordic - nothing

Mr.M

Originally posted by Zaphod
Definitely 25% on Thor 3 at 0.8W? That's this beam
http://www.satcodx-op.com/THO/usa/coverage.cgi?THO003KU
and something like Eurosport 12476, H, 27800 3/4.


i remember only trying two frequencies. they were 12.054 h 28.000 7/8 (tv finland, mtv3, etc) and the old frequency for the adult channel when it was also on thor3. both of them came in at about 20% - 25% strength.


What's your reception of Thor 2 like in comparison? Should be much better.
http://www.satcodx-op.com/THO/usa/coverage.cgi?THO002KU
e.g. TV4 Sweden 11.216, V, 24500, 7/8


i'm getting about 50% - 70% strength on all channel's on 0.8w/1w apart from those that are on thor3.

Zaphod

Originally posted by kramlq
As for 5e:
analogue (11437V) pictures I get I would be surprised if 1.2m didn't work.

Thanks for feedback! What's on at 11437V? I can't see anything on lyngsat or satcodx.

Originally posted by kramlq

1w:
- Intelsat 717 - most ok - really needs 1m+ by the look of things
- Thor 2 Nordic - can lock most channels on a clear day, but need a 1m+ judging by the FTA channels to make them watchable
- Thor 3 Nordic - nothing

We find that Intelsat 707 has strong and stable signal.
Thor 2 is odd! Some transponders (11.403, V) come in at about 70% signal strength and 60% quality. Others (11.421, H) tend to be 55% signal, 44% quality. So even though it has the same footprint, it must have very differently powered transponders. With a high FEC of 7/8, this means the Kiosk promo channel has intermittent artefacts, slurring of audio etc. And like what you see, it tends to fluctuate. Possibly the sat is moving position so that solar panels can recharge?
Not a dicky bird from Thor 3!

Ronan|Raven

I notice the same myself with Thor/intelsat707 very varying levels of coverage from the same footprints. Some people have been discussing how the drop of on some channels is more significant after7ish. Could it be going into an inclined oribit?

kaisersose77

i was picking up 99% of the channels at xmas and all them were watchable but now im gettin half the channels . kiosks are bearly picked up but canal are fine. this is with the lidl dish and lnb

kramlq

Originally posted by Zaphod
Thanks for feedback! What's on at 11437V? I can't see anything on lyngsat or satcodx.

Doh!! Edited my previous post as that should be 12437.

Its just the sirius/viasat promo video in a loop. But its coming in (with many sparklies but a viewable picture - about the same as RTE1 via aeriel where I live!!) on the Sirius 2 nordic beam according to lyngsat. Interesting as the official footprint barely reaches Aberdeen in Scotland.

Thor 2 is odd! Some transponders (11.403, V) come in at about 70% signal strength and 60% quality. Others (11.421, H) tend to be 55% signal, 44% quality.

Yes - recently on probably the sunniest day this year (about 2 weeks ago) I managed to lock channels on most of Intelsat + Thor 2 with quality about 55-65%. Prior to that the most I was getting was 20-45 channels at max 40-45% depending on weather etc. Most are encrypted anyway. Like you I get break up with Kiosk promo on my 80cm dish - with 2.4m you really shouldn't!! I also got much better than usual results from arabsat that day.

Any unusual out-of-footprint results (for Ireland) on your 2.4m dish? (e.g. Amos, 42e eastern beam, or even better would be Echostar/Rainbow at 61.5w)

@ronan|raven - not really sure why 7pm is significant but I think its something to do with the fact that the satellites must operate on battery power after dark as the solar power obviously wouldn't be too effective. Some satellites are known to be a bit odd with regard to reception (arabsat 3a is defective and sirus 2 is known to wander a bit around the 5e spot at night).

Ronan|Raven

Surely when your parked in space, day/night shouldnt be an issue ?!

Zaphod

Originally posted by kramlq
Any unusual out-of-footprint results (for Ireland) on your 2.4m dish? (e.g. Amos, 42e eastern beam, or even better would be Echostar/Rainbow at 61.5w)

Not really. Yet to check out Amos, but our eastern view is more or less blocked from 45 east. Since the dish was mounted, a house has subsequently been built next door, so unless we take a kangohammer to the neighbour's gable, no joy further east.


Once you go west of 58W, it's a great big black hole. No way could a 2.4M hope to bring in Echostar. Herr Schumacher in Brazil who was bringing in Hotbird with his 8M dish, was only able to do so on analogue. Not until he bought one of those expensive (€1500) custom-made Swiss external polarisers was he able to get digital.

What we can currently get is listed here - still a bit of a work in progress:
http://www.freewebs.com/bealach/html/satellites_receivable.html

kramlq

Zaphod - Great site. Most of those western sats don't even register on my system!
Judging by 'equipment' you must have a very understanding bank manager.

I've read reports of hotbird widebeam being received from india to south america, and I myself receive astra3 & some thor signals even though I'm way outside the footprint, so as long as a sat is above the horizon with beams pointing near us its worth not believing the footprint and trying!

@Ronan|raven
I'm not too knowledgable about astronomy or physics really but my understanding is:
- the earth is orbiting around the sun
- the earth is also spinning around on an axis through the poles (taking 24 hrs to do a complete revolution) as it orbits the sun. The degree of this axis changes during the year hence sat outages during spring and autumn as the sun passes by equator plane in line with a sat and groundstation.
- geostationary sats are 36k kilometers directly out (or above some might say) from the surface of the earth at the equatorial plane.
- the fact that they are in a geostationary orbit means they are positioned far out enough to take 24hrs to do a complete revolution. This is the exact same rate as earth, so as a sat revolves with the earth and appears to stay at its assigned orbital position when viewed from earth.
- Most european sats are stationed 36k km above central africa at 0' latitude.
- As the earth spins round, central africa will at some time be facing the sun, and 1/2 a revolution layer it will be at at the other side at its furthest point from the sun (this is not exact!), conceptually facing into the shadow created as the sun shines on the other side of the earth. While at this position, I imaging the solar panels aren't the most effective source of power.

Thats why I assume that from 7-8pm onward our time the sat signals can be harder to get. As I say though this is just my theory/understanding - I could well be wrong.

Zaphod

Originally posted by kramlq

Judging by 'equipment' you must have a very understanding bank manager.

Thankfully we see less of him than you might think. The single most expensive item on that list was the AD3000IP - about £460. In contrast the cheapest was the LT8700 - only a fiver from eBay, and is in spotless condition. Even if you never used the analogue part, it's a very cheap positioner.

eBay is good for receivers, LNBs and feedhorns (including C and Dual band), actuators etc. For example, every so often a Chaparral Monterrey system comes up for auction. These were the Ferraris of analogue receivers in their day (> UK£1000 new), including the capability to automatically track inclined orbits.

The dish was got nearly 8 years ago through Buy and Sell. It was well 10 years old already at that stage with 3+ previous owners. Currently a new 2.4M Channel Master (now Andrews) will set you back the princely sum of €5731.70!!!
http://www.ctv.es/USERS/orbit/dishes.htm
Buy and Sell is still a good place to get cheap large dishes. Only 4 weeks ago there was a 2M dish on sale for €150.

Grayarea

Hi all,

I have recently installed a new system in Newport, Mayo.

It is;

1.2m Fortec Star dish
Jaegar 1224 H-H motor
Technomate 5500 CIP

I get the following sats OK;

30W
1W
5E
13E
19E
28.8E

On 1W I get the Europe beam mostly OK, I lose it at night but can get Kiosk with about 45% quality in the mid afternoon, much worse if it is raining.

What is worth looking at on 5E? I don't get a sniff off the Nordic beam.

Is it worth getting a feed horn and polarizer? I think the Technomate supports one.

Thanks,

Zaphod

Originally posted by Grayarea
Is it worth getting a feed horn and polarizer? I think the Technomate supports one.

AFAIK the Technomate supports a mechanical polariser, but not a magnetic one. In general the mech. ones are more common, and produce less noise in the feedhorn. But the motors can give trouble, esp in areas of high rainfall e.g. Ireland. The magnetic's advantage is that it has no moving parts but is noisy.

More than likely you have an offset dish. You'll have a tough job trying to source a feedhorn + polariser for such a dish. Anyway, I doubt it would be worthwhile on a dish that size. Better off saving you sheckels for now and investing in a bigger dish later on - those Superjacks are rated to 2M I think, depending on what the dish is made from. A good quality universal LNBF might improve signal quality.

Grayarea

I currently have a golden interstar.3 LNB, what would be better than that? I understood that they were practically the same as a Invacom.

It is an offset dish, but I read that a Channel master feed horn would be compatible.

Thanks,

Grayarea.