An Irish Re-Elect "George W" Canpaign

User45701

How would u all react?
There is a large anti bush march on the day he is here,
How would u all feel about a group of people having a Pro-Bush march?

BTW: this is expected to be a resonble discussion so dont bother with the childish name calling

bizmark

Its a free country do as you wish

I dont like the muppet though so i would not be in support of this idea

Sleipnir

March away. You could be gunning for a mackerel from the atlantic to get the position for all I care. It would probably do a better job actually.

Zulu

I'm assuming that the spellings are a poke at his numerous blunders? If so shouldn't this be in After hours? If not - sorry, I don't mean any offence.

Personally I think he's a disaster, but people are free to express themselves, and it has the added advantage of being able to spot his supporters

bonkey

Originally posted by User45701
How would u all feel about a group of people having a Pro-Bush march?

I'd feel they were perfectly entitled, but - by my own judgement - misguided.

jc

davej

I'm just wondering whether the 'poll' will manage to get more responses than there are options :dunno:

davej

thejollyrodger

I thought I was alone but I always thought Geroge Bush was a brilliant leader. Im honoured that he wants to visit our small country and I will be making every effort to come out and support him

He has done so much for America, Africa and the middle east that once Iraq becomes peaceful, history will record his vision of world stability that he has help bring. This will no doubt be recorded as the turning around of Africa to prosperity and the iradication of debt and illness like AIDS etc.

We owe so much to America, they provide us with military secuirity, econmic development, and a cultural connection, we should salute the president that (those) americans voted into office.

The US Army short comings in Iraq and its certain mis use of tatics should not be allowed to cloud our judgement or turn a proud day sour.

Sleipnir

I think I'm going to throw up.

bonkey

Originally posted by thejollyrodger
[BI always thought Geroge Bush was a brilliant leader. ...
He has done so much for ...the middle east that once Iraq becomes peaceful, history will record his vision of world stability that he has help bring. ...

The US Army short comings in Iraq and its certain mis use of tatics should not be allowed to cloud our judgement or turn a proud day sour. [/B]

Is it just me, or is this somewhat contradictory?

He's a brillaint leader who's suffering from shortcomings and "misuse of tactics" in Iraq and yet its certain (to you) that Iraq will become peaceful?????

Come on.....you can do better than that.

jc

bizmark

Originally posted by Sleipnir
I think I'm going to throw up.

Pass me the bucket when your finished

once Iraq becomes peaceful, history will record his vision of world stability

once Poland becomes peaceful, history will record his vision of world stability

Zulu

Originally posted by thejollyrodger
I thought I was alone but I always thought Geroge Bush was a brilliant leader. Im honoured that he wants to visit our small country and I will be making every effort to come out and support him

He has done so much for America, Africa and the middle east that once Iraq becomes peaceful, history will record his vision of world stability that he has help bring. This will no doubt be recorded as the turning around of Africa to prosperity and the iradication of debt and illness like AIDS etc.

We owe so much to America, they provide us with military secuirity, econmic development, and a cultural connection, we should salute the president that (those) americans voted into office.

The US Army short comings in Iraq and its certain mis use of tatics should not be allowed to cloud our judgement or turn a proud day sour.

God, ...sniff, Bless, ...sob, America!
U-S-A! U-S-A! U-S-A! U-S-A!

dahamsta

Originally posted by Sleipnir
I think I'm going to throw up.

I don't disagree with this sentiment, but it made me think that it would be interesting to see a thread like this proceed without reaction for once. As an experiment like. How about it bonkey, let them off the leash for a couple days, see how they get on? Could be insightful.

adam

Zulu

Originally posted by dahamsta
I don't disagree with this sentiment, but it made me think that it would be interesting to see a thread like this proceed without reaction for once. As an experiment like. How about it bonkey, let them off the leash for a couple days, see how they get on? Could be insightful.

adam

Interesting proposal. It would require tremendous restraint.

mike65

quote
once Poland becomes peaceful, history will record his vision of world stability

Eh? Where'd this get quoted from?

If ppl want to march in support of Bush then fine its a free country and should be worth it just to see the reaction at inde-meeja

http://www.indymedia.ie/newswire.php?story_id=64182

Does anyone else find it amusing the way so many anti-bush lefties talk in war language?

Mike.

bizmark

I change Iraq for poland and you get a hitler 1940 effect (or at lest i though you would)

mike65

Ah I see....bit slow on the historical allusions today!

Mike.

shotamoose

I'm genuinely interested in people who really support George W. Bush. I think his regime is not only dangerously ignorant but incompetent and malicious for good measure, but maybe I'm missing something, as he seems to have a bedrock of support of around 40% of the voters in the US. Seriously, why? What good things has he done that, say, John Kerry wouldn't also have done in his place?

So I'd love to see a pro-Bush rally, for curiosity's sake alone.

ArphaRima

Go for it.

I'd love to see what kind of people will be involved in such a march, and what reception they'd get.

It isnt a discussion on the man, so I'll not discuss what i think of him other than my views would be very negative.

But democracy is just that. If you want to march, then do it. But I hope that the gardai and government etc. treat the pro-bush march in EXACTLY the same manner as they would an anti-bush one.

User45701

Originally posted by thejollyrodger
I thought I was alone but I always thought Geroge Bush was a brilliant leader. Im honoured that he wants to visit our small country and I will be making every effort to come out and support him

He has done so much for America, Africa and the middle east that once Iraq becomes peaceful, history will record his vision of world stability that he has help bring. This will no doubt be recorded as the turning around of Africa to prosperity and the iradication of debt and illness like AIDS etc.

We owe so much to America, they provide us with military secuirity, econmic development, and a cultural connection, we should salute the president that (those) americans voted into office.

The US Army short comings in Iraq and its certain mis use of tatics should not be allowed to cloud our judgement or turn a proud day sour.

I like that.

A friend of mine said in a arguement today
"would you rather be taken over by the US or by muslems?"

Originally posted by Zulu
I'm assuming that the spellings are a poke at his numerous blunders? If so shouldn't this be in After hours? If not - sorry, I don't mean any offence.

No offence taken im a horrible speller, i dont care that i cant spell

---

Afgan is a better place now than it was.
Will Iraq be? i hope so but i watched the newest episode of simpsons and there was 1 part i didnt like, i will spoiler it incase some of u havent seen it

Skinner: I was a soilder in USA`s only losing war
Homer: To date!

I didnt like that 1 bit i know its a but of fun and its simpsons but i dont know i want to se USA win Iraq.

Isreal want to take down the head guy (i cant remember his name the guy who has been under house arrest for 2 or more years, damm i cant remember his name) but if they take him down it will probbley trigger a massive wave of attacks. Isreal made a promise to bush/usa thet they wouldent attack him

USA want to take down that guy in Iraq with his own privite army, the guy that is hiding in that "holy" citty, he has been on the news a few times he seems to have quite a bit of power but a Jehad has been promised if they attack him or enter the holy city
(lol i am a bit out of date i havent watched news in a week or 2 now so the whole thing about the guy in Iraq could be out of date now)

Both of them are accused of supporting attacks on US/Isreal troops, hopefully they will both be taken down because the palastinian guy is definatly supporting suicide bombings and the Iraq guy is a nuasence

sceptre

Originally posted by User45701
A friend of mine said in a arguement today
"would you rather be taken over by the US or by muslems?"

And you said "I'd rather not be taken over at all"? Or pointed out the "the US" is a country while "muslems" (sic) is/are not a country?

bobbyjoe

Marches aren't allowed in this country anymore haven't you heard.

Some interesting stuff about Bush's work for Africa

article6

Originally posted by sceptre
And you said "I'd rather not be taken over at all"?

Come on. This is a dodge answer, which I'm sure you wouldn't tolerate if it were Bush saying it.

Marches aren't allowed in this country anymore haven't you heard.

I haven't heard. Tell me more.

Marchers: Go on, if you really want, but you're not going to get a lot of support, except from the CIA's spooks in Ireland. Most of Dubya's Irish supporters don't care enough about him to get onto the streets, having lives to get on with and whatnot.

bobbyjoe

I haven't heard. Tell me more.

Well what happens is you make up some scare stories for the press to get a bit of hysteria going (don't worry they will print them obediently).
This will scare away some of the marchers. (Gas/bio whatever your having youreself attacks are good for this).
Then block the march route with thousands of riot cops and a water cannon.
If those pesky kids sit on the road an chant "peaceful protest" give them a good blast of the water cannon.

All the people watching Sky will think you've done a great job


easy

pork99

Originally posted by User45701


A friend of mine said in a arguement today
"would you rather be taken over by the US or by muslems?"

Well we already are "taken over by the US"

A very compelling reason to hope Bush gets the boot in November;

US failure in Iraq would be a disaster for Ireland

However, if this economic hardship coincides with an American defeat in Iraq,we will get an oil whammy plus serious and possibly lasting damage to the American psyche and an emboldened and victorious al-Qaeda in the Middle East.The first economic victim of such a scenario will be trade and investment flows from the US to the rest of the world. Given that we are the most open economy in the world and we have benefited enormously from the glorious age of globalisation since 1990, the economic ramifications of a Yankee defeat in Iraq would be disastrous.

Even some conservatives think Bush is making an appalling arse of things in Iraq:

http://www.military.com/NewContent/0,13190,Galloway_051304,00.html

http://www.military.com/NewContent/0,13190,Sanders_051704,00.html

BattleBoar

The above article really underscores the problems facing the US in the future that neither party is willing to face, because facing them means implementing solutions that are unpalatable to most (sadly quite shortsighted) americans. In about 10 years, when the baby boomers are almost fully retired and there are more people riding in the cart than there are people pulling, and still no solution to the impending train wreck that is the American Social Security program, there are going to be huge problems.

Sleipnir

Originally posted by thejollyrodger
The US Army short comings in Iraq and its certain mis use of tatics should not be allowed to cloud our judgement or turn a proud day sour.

Would you say that this "proud day" turned sour? or would you just class it as a bit of a whoopsie?


"US forces have fired on a wedding party in Iraq killing more than forty people. Iraqi officials have said the dead include 15 children and ten women. Locals have said the civilians celebrated the wedding by firing into the air, and Americans mistook the traditional salute for hostile fire. The attack happened near the border with Syria and Jordan. It comes as the first American soldier charged with abusing Iraqi prisoners has been jailed for a year. Jeremy Sivits faced the court-martial on four counts of maltreating inmates at the Abu Graib prison."

thejollyrodger

We can thank the recent developments at Intel in Lexlip to our special status with the United States Government. Just another example of how American business are help bettering the individual lives of Irish people, bring jobs and prosperity to our beloved country.

"US forces have fired on a wedding party in Iraq killing more than forty people. Iraqi officials have said the dead include 15 children and ten women

Make no mistake, this is a war were in. There are rotten apples in every bunch and all armies do make mistakes. My sympoties goes out to the innocent iraqis who died.

However I commend the indiviual american soldiers who are putting their own lives on the line to help protect civilisiation and the West. America must not and will not fail in Iraq. The knock on effects to our Nation at home would be diasterous.

My stance is on pragmatic reasons. Im currently 1/2 way through picking the bones by geoffrey regan and agree with many of this points. However in reality, the Americans are the new Romans, you are either with them or against them.

article6

Originally posted by bobbyjoe
Well what happens is you make up some scare stories for the press to get a bit of hysteria going (don't worry they will print them obediently).

Wait... so if there's a possibility of violence at a march - and there was both the possibility and the occurence of violence during the 1st of May march - the media should not report this? Please don't ever argue in support of a free press.

We can thank the recent developments at Intel in Lexlip to our special status with the United States Government. Just another example of how American business are help bettering the individual lives of Irish people, bring jobs and prosperity to our beloved country.

I doubt it; unless Intel is a semi-state company run by the U.S. federal government, they will decide where to locate their operations based on profit grounds, including any subsidies they earn from the Department of Enterprise.

Well we already are "taken over by the US"

And look! We're not being made to wear burqas!

User45701

Out of interest how many people would be anti bush but be pro what USA is doing?
I discoverd that 1 person on the bus 2day was like that.

I see no problem with letting US war planes land in shannon.
I predict another attempted terrorist attack in November, it will hopefully fail.

Magnolia_Fan

I wouldn't suggest it, Anti- Bush protestors can get Ugly, they protest against using Force by using Force...If you want to get a hammer blow to the head march away if not I wouldn't...I just walked the opposite way of a march..I wasn't even against it they are entitled to it , but it was being led by Micheal D and I swear to god he came me the most vile look you can imagine...I had my headphones on and didn't realise there was a march...what a pr!ck!

User45701

Personley i have a problem with marches.
what gives those ****ers the right to mess with my day
to bloack my roads and MY busses!

I would only go on a pro bush march if it was on the same day and same time os the anti bush march so i wouldent be causing a traffic disruption

Is pissing off most of dublin by fcuking with the roads the best way to get there support?

dahamsta

Originally posted by thejollyrodger
Make no mistake, this is a war were in.

War my arse. In the traditional sense, this is not a "war", it's something completely different. Bush just likes to call it a "war" because he knows many Americans will back him blindly, and because it means he gets to call himself a "war president". Which would probably be an embarassment to the real war presidents. Or did they spend most of their administrations on holiday too? Somehow I reckon they had more important things to do with their time.

Originally posted by User45701
what gives those ****ers the right to mess with my day

Last I looked, "your day" (a fitting me-me-me remark, par for the course from conservatives) isn't specifically mentioned in the Constitution. What gives you the right to mess with their constitutionally protected right to protest, "f*cker"?

Originally posted by User45701
to bloack my roads and MY busses!

By the same token, they could say the same thing. Their roads. THEIR buses.

adam

Sleipnir

Originally posted by thejollyrodger
However I commend the indiviual american soldiers who are putting their own lives on the line to help protect civilisiation and the West. America must not and will not fail in Iraq. The knock on effects to our Nation at home would be diasterous.

My stance is on pragmatic reasons. Im currently 1/2 way through picking the bones by geoffrey regan and agree with many of this points. However in reality, the Americans are the new Romans, you are either with them or against them.

First of all, it's not a war. There is no opposing army (at least in the official sense)

Secondly, what threat did Iraq pose to the West before the war?
If your reply is terrorism then tell me about the last terrorist attacks by Iraqis.
Tell me about specific threats while accepting the fact that they did not have WMD's and even if it is proven that such weapons existed at the time of this war, they had no delivery mechanisms which with to attack the west.

What was the knock-on effect our Nation was experiencing from Iraq before America invaded? Was there one?
The only knock-on effect that is having a direct impact on me is that it petrol costs me alot more now then it did before the war.
Do I feel safer now that Saddam is gone? No. I was just as safe when he was in power.

bobbyjoe

Please don't ever argue in support of a free press.

I support a free press!!

thejollyrodger

War my arse

yes it is a war, you idiot !! go look the word up in a dictionary.

Originally posted by thejollyrodger
what gives those ****ers the right to mess with my day

quote:Originally posted by thejollyrodger
to bloack my roads and MY busses!

I NEVER POSTED THE ABOVE COMMENTS YOU LIAR !!!


who ever is the next president has to deal with the fact that the US IS IN A WAR .... you can stick your head in the sand and hope it will go away....

IF the next US president pulls troops out of Iraq then all hell is going to break loose. and iraq will no longer exist as a country.. the whole region will be put into chaos !!!

lynchie

Originally posted by thejollyrodger
yes it is a war, you idiot !! go look the word up in a dictionary.

War
1. A state of open, armed, often prolonged conflict carried on between nations, states, or parties

War requires more than one nation or state to be in confrontation against one another. I dont see an active government / state force in opposition to the USA. I see a bunch of normal Iraqis (granted some foreign militia) opposing the US. Think thats called occupation... not war??

dahamsta

Originally posted by thejollyrodger
yes it is a war

No, it's not.

Originally posted by thejollyrodger
you idiot

Lovely. Presumably Lesson One in "How To Break The Rules To The Letter", by thejollyrimmer:

"Never attack a poster. Attack the content of their post. (You can tell someone that their opinion is based on incomplete or incorrect information, but do not call them an idiot.)"

Originally posted by thejollyrodger
I NEVER POSTED THE ABOVE COMMENTS YOU LIAR !!!

It was User45701, my mistake. Thank you for being so tolerant.

adam

SkepticOne

Originally posted by lynchie
War
1. A state of open, armed, often prolonged conflict carried on between nations, states, or parties

War requires more than one nation or state to be in confrontation against one another.

No. E.g. civil war.

I dont see an active government / state force in opposition to the USA. I see a bunch of normal Iraqis (granted some foreign militia) opposing the US. Think thats called occupation... not war??

It doesn't really matter whether you call it war or something else.

Anyway as far as the topic is concerned, I don't see many marching in support of Bush. What would be the point? I doubt if American voters would be swayed by a few people on the streets in support of him in the unlikely event that that would happen.

If for some reason you support bush you would probably help him more by contributing to his campaign fund, though not by much.

thejollyrodger

I wont be bullied into submission

LegacyUser

anyone ever seen bush do an interview where he isnt smirking like an imbecile, be it talk of 9/11, war on terrorism/ invading iraq etc etc, the guy has a permanent 'i don't know what the hell im im talking about so ill hide my extreme discomfort by smirkin' look on his face, even when talking about terrible events hes smirkin away, IMBECILE

User45701

You avoided my question about what gives them the right to bloack my roads MY BUSSES by saying their roads and their busses.

If they want to march fuine they can but why not do it in single file along the path or something where it dosent **** with MY day
One day i will just snap, get a car and drive it into a protest at 80mph, like to see them bloack other ppls roads and busses after that.

BuffyBot

Yeah, that's a convincing argument :rolleyes:

Sarsfield

If GWB wanted a war on terrorism, why didn't he attack Saudi Arabia instead? That's where most of them (including OBL) come from.

Iraq was a secular Muslim country, so it doesn't even fit into the category of a fanatical Muslim state. Saddam Hussein is evil, and his removal from power was required but the approach taken was very unwise.

The US has seriously upset the balance of power in the region. They can't leave until Iraq is fully under the control of a new Iraqi Government AND it returns to being a regional power. Otherwise, its neighbours (including the much more scary state of Iran) will start eyeing up new territory. An Iranian superstate would be a real threat to the West.

George W Bush has caused this. He has put the West in peril, not rescued it. His judgement is very poor. His understanding of international affairs is very poor. His track record of successes is dismal. Anyone in command of the US army could overrun Iraq so he can't claim to have achieved anything there.

I accept the right of people to express their views so I would have no objection to a march to re-elect GWB. I suspect it would be small and not newsworthy in itself. Of course the anti-war/Bush/America protests would guarantee worldwide press attention (for the pro-Bush march) by turning up in their thousands to object :rolleyes:

Flukey

First of all, how can we have a re-elect Bush campaign, when he was never elected in the first place?

Anyone with commonsense looking at America's track record and the inconsistencies, contradictions and hypocracies in their foreign policy could see the flaws of the war last year. Those against the war were told they were pro-Saddam, which of course was rubbish. They wanted him gone as much as anyone else, but one man, one gun and one bullet could have achieved that not a wholescale invasion. Iraqis have been liberated, but as predicted they have predominantly being liberated of their mortal existence! They were called anti-American, which again for the majority against the war was not true. I am not anti-American. What I am and what the majority of the anti-war people are is anti-American foreign policy. That does not make me anti-American. Let me put it this way: has there ever been any one single policy in any area whatsoever of your government that you have disagreed with? Of course there are, probably a lot of them. Does the fact that you have disagreed with some policy or other past or present make you anti-your country? Of course it doesn't. I am Irish and there are plenty of policies of governments here that I have not agreed with, but that does not make me anti-Irish. There are many Americans who do not agree with this war, but they are not anti-American. So the fact that the anti-war people, at home and abroad, disagree with facets of American foreign policy, does not make them anti-American. Those supporting the war call those against it pro-terrorism and anti-democratic and pro-Saddam and anti-American and all sorts of things, instead of actually dealing with the points they are raising against the war, because not one of them can be refuted.

Instead of just lambasting terrorists I look at the reasons that have caused terrorism. To tackle terrorism you have to tackle the causes not the perpatrators. The insurgents are painted as all being nasty bad people out to kill Americans and destroy democracy etc. A few weeks or months ago, many of those insurgents were ordinary peace-loving people going about their daily business. Then all of a sudden their friends and/or family, who were also just going about their peaceful business, were blown away by allied bombs or guns. Naturally a lot of those people decided to fight back. Every bomb dropped just adds more recruits to the terrorist fold. Terrorism works the same all over the world. It is created by circumstance. People often join legitimate armies for the same reasons. The ranks of an army grow when a war begins and many that had no intention joining change their mind when their families suffer. People joining a struggle, whether with a legitimate army or terrorist groups, join them through circumstance. As I keep on saying they way to stop terrorists is not to keep attacking them and the people around them, as that just makes more people join, but the tackle the initial causes of the terrorism. Here in Ireland the British army spent 25 years trying to defeat the IRA. The might of the British army could not do it, as all their actions created more and more recruits. It was only when they sat down and started to address the underlying issues, that the terrorism began to abate. The same has happened in other conflicts.

We saw it again this week. 40 killed at a wedding in Iraq by allied bombs, similar to an event in Afghanistan a couple of years ago. Large amounts of casualties in the Gaza Strip with another Israeli incursion. This was condemned by countries around the world and all countries in the security council except one, which abstained on a motion condemning it. You don't have to guess which country that was. If an Israeli soldier strapped a load of explosives around his waist and went into a crowd, onto a bus or into a restaurant in Gaza City and blew himself up, GWB would probably want to award a posthumous medal of bravery to him!!!! It is events like this that create terrorism, not terrorists. The terrorists carry out the acts but others create the conditions that turn ordinary peace-loving people into terrorists. I am not condoning the terrorists actions, but I can see why they feel that this is an option. Remove the reasons for terrorism and that will remove the terrorists.

All their interference in the Middle East always come back to haunt them. What is their solution? To go in and interfere even more and then they wonder why people attack them. Bush tells us he is on a war against terror. If he ever starts one, I would fully support him. What he is actually waging is a war for terror, because this war is creating terrorism, not eradicating it. There were no insurgents in Iraq a year ago. They have been created by this war. The longer it goes on, the more of they are going to get. Every bullet fired and bomb dropped by America is like Manna from Heaven for the terrorists, because it creates more and more reasons for their ranks to swell. If innocent Iraqis continue to be killed by America, and the majority being killed are innocent, it will continue to create more and more resentment towards America and Al Q'aida and other such organisations will have their ranks swelled. Bush and Rumsfeld are the best recruitment officers Al Q'aida have ever had. Until America starts to address the problems in Iraq and beyond, which will remove resentment towards them and cut the ground from under Al Q'aida, the terrorism will not only continue but grow. After 9/11 the USA should indeed have bombed Afghanistan, with food parcels. That would have undermined Al Q'aida a lot more than dropping bombs on the people. After 9/11, why didn't America bomb Sweden? After all, like Afghanistan, they had absolutely nothing to do with the events of 9/11 either!

America is a great country. It has the power and influence to do a huge amount of good in the world and it has regularly done so. But until they start doing the positive things in the Middle East, which I don't think is killing innocent people, the terrorism threat will not abate and if anything will only grow. America has brought many positive things like jobs and investments here too, but does that mean we should just turn a blind eye to what they are doing in Iraq? Of course not. Some people seem to think that as long as they are bringing investment and jobs here, they don't care how many innocent people are killed in the Middle-East! Any right-thinking person would not agree.

daveirl

This post has been deleted.

Zombrex

Originally posted by User45701
If they want to march fuine they can but why not do it in single file along the path or something where it dosent **** with MY day

Why is your single day more important that the collective day of all the people wanting to march

By the same logic I could say I don't want anyone else to go to work because it distrupts my day

Flukey

Daveirl, it is very debateable as to whether he got elected. In most democracies, the one with the most votes wins. Yes, I know about the Electoral College and how it operates, but it did show its flaws in the last election. He was in the end effectively appointed by the Supreme Court rather than the electorate. It is ironic that the two greatest democracies in the world both have heads of state that were not elected and both of whom only got the job because their dads had it before them.

User45701

Originally posted by Wicknight
Why is your single day more important that the collective day of all the people wanting to march

By the same logic I could say I don't want anyone else to go to work because it distrupts my day

why cant they just march in single file along the path?

daveirl

This post has been deleted.

sceptre

Originally posted by daveirl
What other democracy?

I had to think about that one for a good five minutes before half-guessing that he may well mean the UK. (not that being head of state in the UK gives you any more than a rather large and expensive council house with an attached staff)

TomF

There is a good examination of the raid that is being described as an attack on a wedding party from 20,000 feet at <http://belmontclub.blogspot.com/>.