Gruesome Be-heading

Xterminator

I dont know if anyone would want to see the video, but i downloaded it from <mod edit> After repeated requests I've decided to remove the link. Google it if you want to see it </mod edit>

Be warned it is graphic.

Anyway, for me it put in perspective the difference between what the Americans have been caught doing, and what the Iraqi insurgents, (previously the administration!) are willing to do.

It brough back to my mind the burned bodies of the contracters being dragged through the streets and beaten, and the screams of the american as they hack his head off.

Soliders are not police. They are not trained or suitable for maintaing order, because they are required to be able to take life, and this desensitises them to violence. But at least america has a conscience.

But the whole idea of human rights etc is alien to the type of animal who used to run iraq. They can poison, murder and starve others without any concience.

X

Rabies

Just watched the video :eek:
When I heard on the news that he was beheaded taught it was with a sword or something. Taken off in one quick movement.
In the movie it takes about 30secs to to cut his head off

Don't watch the video if you have a weak stomach or are easily offended.

There is a huge difference between the Iraqi and American treatment of prisoners.

pro_gnostic_8

TBH, I didn't watch the decapitation itself ........... only the reading of the statement preceding it. The act is too awful to even contemplate -- I don't want to witness it.

This atrocity in conjunction with the ill-treatment of prisoners in Abu Ghraib will further increase polarization in this increasingly dirty war. Americans will come to believe that Arabs are bloodthirsty sub-humans while ordinary Iraqi's will be susceptible to the Al-Qaeda teachings that the U.S. is a torturing occupation force.

I'm beginning to despair of the whole situation.

Villain

That has to be the worst thing I have ever seen, can't believe these people would actually do this.

sick!

Mighty_Mouse

That's the most stomach churning, sickening act I've ever seen. **** me thats disturbing. Wish I hadn't watched it. How must that Americans family feel after witnessing that!!!:eek:
Word of warning- dont watch this video. Its a million times worse to the Falujah(spell) one.

mr_angry

I don't intend to watch it. There are some sick, sick people out there. What sickens me most is that people around the world (not just these people) seem to believe that revenge is justification for taking a human life. There is no justification. And in this manner? It disgusts me completely.

ixoy

I have the video downloaded but, as yet, unwatched. I saw the Budd Dwyer clip awhile back and that was frightfully disturbing. On one hand, I'd feel, watching the video would reinforce my disgust at the acts of man, force a horrible recognition of it. On the other hand, should I need something like this to get me to acknowledge it? Hmm :dunno:

comet

I don't think I want to watch such a horrendous act. Man is so cruel but how many times do we hear

"You reap what you sow" ....... "Those who live by the sword shall die by the sword"

I think if this were a game of football you would have to say the U.S. can have no complaints.

ixoy

Originally posted by comet
I think if this were a game of football you would have to say the U.S. can have no complaints.

But it's not a game of football and the citizens of the U.S. should have every right to complain.
The problem is their constant desire to seek retributive justice, the old "eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth" that I saw exemplified against last night in the documentary "Aileen: Life and Death of a Serial Killer". This video will, very rightly, sicken and anger the people. But I'm pretty damned sure that it may turn make more citizens feel less sympathetic to the plight of the abused Iraqi soldiers, create an ever increasing divide between East and West, and make more people mutter about going in there and cleaning out those ungodly Muslims.

Sleipnir

You're all sick for watching another human being die.

That's someone's son & someone's friend. How dare you gawp at his death for your own cheap thrills.

I'm ashamed and disgusted by those of you who watched it.

dathi1

Its frightening the way war can reduce Human actions to these levels...but I would put them in the same category as the people who decapitated women and children with clinical air strikes in fallujah.

Villain

Originally posted by Sleipnir
You're all sick for watching another human being die.

That's someone's son & someone's friend. How dare you gawp at his death for your own cheap thrills.

I'm ashamed and disgusted by those of you who watched it.

Hold on there a minute, I certainly did not watch it for some cheap thrill, and if you watched it you would know that nobody would.

I watched it to see for myself the cruel act, it sickened me and I am completely disgusted, but to say I watched it for some thrill is totally wrong and ignorant.

Sleipnir

well then if you're mother/brother/son is killed in a brutal fashion you'd be okay with your mates watching it over & over again on the web yeah?

I will not watch someone murder another human being for any reason, the victim deserves more respect than that.

I watched it to see for myself the cruel act

Why did you have to watch it though?
Was knowing how it happened not enough?
What did you get out of it?
How did it benefit you in any way to actually see it happening?

comet

Originally posted by Sleipnir
You're all sick for watching another human being die.

That's someone's son & someone's friend. How dare you gawp at his death for your own cheap thrills.

I'm ashamed and disgusted by those of you who watched it.

Didn't watch it myself but I think you're going a bit overboard there. In fairness I think there are very few individuals who would get pleasure out of watching that video. I think most would watch it out of curiosity. We can't always close our eyes to ways of the world, it won't go away you know.

mike65

Funnily enough I dont need to see a beheading to know what it looks like (imagination much worse than reality)
and I'd sooner not cheapen myself by viewing real pornographic snuff movies...


Mike.

Villain

Originally posted by Sleipnir
well then if you're mother/brother/son is killed in a brutal fashion you'd be okay with your mates watching it over & over again on the web yeah?

I watched it once and have no intension of watching it again.

Originally posted by Sleipnir

Why did you have to watch it though?
Was knowing how it happened not enough?
What did you get out of it?
How did it benefit you in any way to actually see it happening?

I wanted to see this act for myself so I could see for myself what happened, now I really don't care whether you agree or not but the least you could do is respect my opinion.

Sleipnir

Originally posted by comet
Didn't watch it myself but I think you're going a bit overboard there. In fairness I think there are very few individuals who would get pleasure out of watching that video. I think most would watch it out of curiosity. We can't always close our eyes to ways of the world, it won't go away you know.

That's not the point. It happened and I'm not closing my eyes to the fact but it's disrepectful to the victim.

If it was your brother you wouldn't want thousand of people to watch his gruesome death.

I'm not going to debate further it but I think those who watch it should question themselves about why they are watching it.

That's it, bye.

davej

How dare you gawp at his death for your own cheap thrills.

I'm ashamed and disgusted by those of you who watched it.

I could equally turn around and say that I'm disgusted at you for sending this flamebait message just for the cheap thrill of getting a reaction from other posters.

davej

ixoy

Originally posted by Sleipnir
That's not the point. It happened and I'm not closing my eyes to the fact but it's disrepectful to the victim.

If it was your brother you wouldn't want thousand of people to watch his gruesome death.

Oh get off your high moral pulpit before its sheer grandess gives you vertigo. By your thinking, we should never show footage of 9/11 because people die in it and anyone watching it is clearly getting a sick thrill from it. Or the recent assassination in Checyana which was widely shown on television - that too is surely sick vicarious buzz we're all getting?
If I decide to watch it later, it's out of a lesson to myself on how brutal man can be to man, and a forced break from our, often coseted, world view. And it wouldn't be an enjoyable lesson, on any level, as you suggest/

SheroN

I agree with mike....all those who watched it and were disgusted by it...what exactly did you think seeing someones head being sawn off was going to look like? :dunno:

Well I've watched it.
I think I made a comment elsewhere about being eye ball to eye ball with your victim and the shaky moral ground it puts you on,and in this case, no court, just brutality enjoyed by those doing it by the looks of things... with no qualms whasoever.
I've seen more concerns paid for animal welfare in an abatoir.
It only confirms in my mind the savagery of these people it deserves no further comment really.

Rabies

Originally posted by Sleipnir
Why did you have to watch it though?
Was knowing how it happened not enough?
What did you get out of it?
How did it benefit you in any way to actually see it happening?

If some one said

"Don't press the red button something bad will happen"

What would you do?

dubwhite

I remember seeing a video clip of some Chechen soldiers doing the very same thing
a few years ago. This kind of gruesome execution is not confined to the Middle East.

While I would feel sorry for the mans parents - especially if they had to watch the
video - I really don't see what business he had in Iraq at all. According to the
website, he actually returned home to the USA in early February, but went back over
there looking for work soon after. Why in Gods name would you do that?

Jak

Originally posted by Sleipnir
You're all sick for watching another human being die.

That's someone's son & someone's friend. How dare you gawp at his death for your own cheap thrills.

I'm ashamed and disgusted by those of you who watched it.

With all 'due' respect. <snip>

Hearing about something is not the same as witnessing it, and if I choose not to shy away from something and want to see what emotions it will evoke and how my opinions will change as a result then I will.

There was no 'gawping' or 'cheap thrill' involved. If anything just pity and shock at the true barbarity of the crime. We live in a media driven world for better or for worse, get over it <snip>

JAK.

<mod edit> flamebait deleted </mod edit>

Rabies

Originally posted by dubwhite
I According to the
website, he actually returned home to the USA in early February, but went back over
there looking for work soon after. Why in Gods name would you do that?

Simple really, money.

Johnny Versace

I didn't watch it. What's the point?

I find it strange - if someone looks at a picture of a 10 year old giving a man oral sex he will go to jail. If someone looks at a movie of someone being decapitated, nothing happens whatsoever.

Don't get me wrong, I think child porn is horrid, but there is a big difference between sucking someone off and killing someone.

Know what I mean??

mike65

Originally posted by Johnny Versace
I didn't watch it. What's the point?


Don't get me wrong, I think child porn is horrid, but there is a big difference between sucking someone off and killing someone.

Know what I mean??

Ah but this political and educatshunal

Mike.

mr_angry

<more flamebait>

Johnny Versace

Originally posted by mr_angry
Thanks for that JV. Great f***ing analogy. :rolleyes:

I think you misunderstood. Maybe read again before ranting?

SheroN

It's a war situation, what are people expecting? to make friends?

Wacker

I watched it. I have seen a decpitation clip before, and this was way, way worse. While I was horrified by it, and I am pretty tough to shock, I am glad I did.
In order for me to be able to have a fully informed opinion, I want to exose myself to the situation as much as I can.
Believe me, I did not watch it to get a kick out of someone else's suffering. I just want to try and expose myself to the realities out such a situation. Reading about a decpitation doesn't move me the way watching one does.
If you think I, or anyone else am twisted for watching it, thats your opinion. I disagree.

Johnny Versace

Originally posted by SheroN
It's a war situation, what are people expecting? to make friends?

Exactly.

America invaded Iraq. America destroyed Iraq.

What do they expect?

mr_angry

Originally posted by Johnny Versace
I think you misunderstood. Maybe read again before ranting?

Nope. I got what you meant (and it was a good point). But your choice of analogy? Dubious.

Sleipnir

Originally posted by Jak
With all 'due' respect. Go **** yourself.

Hearing about something is not the same as witnessing it, and if I choose not to shy away from something and want to see what emotions it will evoke and how my opinions will change as a result then I will.

There was no 'gawping' or 'cheap thrill' involved. If anything just pity and shock at the true barbarity of the crime. We live in a media driven world for better or for worse, get over it and keep your ****ing moral objections to yourself.

JAK.

Pity? How magnanimous of you.
I'm sure his parents would be delighted to hear that some moron in Ireland watched their son die and had his pity

You chose not to shy away from it?
Aren't you just fantastic? You're a warrior in this "media driven world" facing up to the evil of man and staring it in the face.
Or are you a spotty teenager who watched it and said
"wow did ya see dat?!?!?!"

The latter I would think.

Originally posted by Ixoy
If I decide to watch it later, it's out of a lesson to myself on how brutal man can be to man, and a forced break from our, often coseted, world view.

You need to watch the video to know how brutal man can be to man?
I know they cut his head off with a knife, I don't need to see it to know that it happened.

Wacker

Johnny, I will adress your point.

If I pay money for child porn, or even if i find it for free, I am helping the industry carry on and to continue, either by paying for it or by becoming part of a demo-graphic who may some day pay for it. I am totally consenting to kids being forced to perform oral sex on adults, as we pay for this to happen. I am a definite part of the system; I am the customer.
If I am part of this system, I deserve punishment.

Myself, and the others who watched that clip ddid not watch it with the hope that more people will be decapitated so we can watch those clips too.
I really hope no one ever gets decapitated again. Really, I do. However, I feel I can better make sense of my feelings on an issue once i have seen it. Also, I don't think decapitations will increase becuase people like me watch clips like this.

So basically, the difference is this. Watching child porn is illegal not because you are witnessing a crime, but because you are making yourself a part of the crime.

Watching this clip did not make me a part of the crime at all, in my opinion.

Johnny Versace

Originally posted by mr_angry
Nope. I got what you meant (and it was a good point). But your choice of analogy? Dubious.

OK, nicer response

My analogy may be dodgyish, but I think it is fair. They are both extreme acts.

Johnny Versace

Wacker:

Fair point, but...

If there were websites where people paid to see movies with decapitations etc., should viewing this movie be illegal?

I'm sure with a bit of googling I could find a few examples...

Wacker

You chose not to shy away from it?
Aren't you just fantastic? You're a warrior in this "media driven world" facing up to the evil of man and staring it in the face.
Or are you a spotty teenager who watched it and said
"wow did ya see dat?!?!?!"
The latter I would think.

Sleipnir, I know that wasn't directed at me, but would you please stop being so condescending?

Wacker

I think such websites should be illegal if it could be proven that people were being kidnapped and subsquently decapitated in order to supply footage for such sites.
This clip was nothing like that. We both know that, without needing to see the clip.

Johnny Versace

Originally posted by Wacker
I think such websites should be illegal if it could be proven that people were being kidnapped and subsquently decapitated in order to supply footage for such sites.
This clip was nothing like that. We both know that, without needing to see the clip.

Sure.

I never really thought of the "child porn industry" as a money maker, I always saw it as a bunch of disturbed ****ers molesting children.

So I see your point.

adonis

up to his old tricks again.

I believe as people who read/look at this we are also part of the chain. i.e we consume.
This may not be translated in monetary value, but we definitely consume.

i think its all part of de-sensitisation, and i wouldnt be surprised at all if that video was released by the american media on purpose.

"war, what is it good for? aboslutely nothing"

ixoy

Originally posted by Sleipnir
Pity? How magnanimous of you.
I'm sure his parents would be delighted to hear that some moron in Ireland watched their son die and had his pity

I'll ask again, since you seemed to shy away from the actual questions the first time. Should we have shown footage of 9/11 in which people died (and, when there were people falling from windows, seen to die)? Should we have shown the recent assassination of the Chechynan premier on TV? They're all images of death that may - horror of horrors - invoke symapthy and pity in people (what vile emotions those are).

Dr. Dre

It's simple really.
If you want to watch it, then watch it.
If you don't, then don't - and don't judge the people who do, you're not in a position to.

Mighty_Mouse

I think child porn is horrid, but there is a big difference between sucking someone off and killing someone.

:eek: and they unbanned you! Yippee for a boards where everyone has something constructive to add to a debate!

adonis

is that from twin peaks?

tinofapples

I was gonna call these guys animals or their act barbaric but think now it would be an insult to an animal .

How a human can do this is beyond me .

ChipZilla

Hmm, some US army PR drone was on Euronews last night saying how despicable and deplorable it was that these guys executed their prisoner. Hello! Somebody get Jeb Bush on the phone. Dubya's own brother's dispatched quite a few people to the next world - albeit not is such an extreme manner. Anyways, anyone who goes working in Iraq these days, civilian "contractor" or not, is taking his/her life in their hands and shouldn't be surprised that they might come to a bloody end. It's not Eurodisney y'know.

Johnny Versace

Originally posted by Mighty_Mouse
:eek: and they unbanned you! Yippee for a boards where everyone has something constructive to add to a debate!

You completely missed the point (as usual.)

Maybe read the responses after my post?

ixoy

Originally posted by adonis
is that from twin peaks?

Yup.... Love the show and anxiously waiting the second season on DVD.

Anyways, anyone who goes working in Iraq these days, civilian "contractor" or not, is taking his/her life in their hands and shouldn't be surprised that they might come to a bloody end. It's not Eurodisney y'know.

Of course it's not but the implication is that they're somehow more deserving of their fate by virtue of the fact they go there. Contractor or not, nobody deserves this vile act perpetrated upon them. I disagree with the U.S. presence in the country, but I disagree a hell of a lot more with barbaric acts like this.

Wacker

Chipzilla, that doesn't mean that I wouldn't be more than happy to find out that all the guys standing up in that clip met a gruesome, agonizing death.
However, such a death should not be meeted out in the name of righteousness by a supposedly benevolent army, of course...

Xterminator

Anyway, for me it put in perspective the difference between what the Americans have been caught doing, and what the Iraqi insurgents, (previously the administration!) are willing to do.

It brough back to my mind the burned bodies of the contracters being dragged through the streets and beaten, and the screams of the american as they hack his head off.

Soliders are not police. They are not trained or suitable for maintaing order, because they are required to be able to take life, and this desensitises them to violence. But at least america has a conscience.

But the whole idea of human rights etc is alien to the type of animal who used to run iraq. They can poison, murder and starve others without any concience.

This is what gets me. If the west performs torture its terrible, but we can live with it, but if an Arab group does the same its somehow worse.

The difference between these torture incidents is that we have seen this video. If you had seen a video of the American use of torture would you be so quick to call the Arab worse?

Dead is dead. And Torture is Torture. Neither this video or anything that the Arabs have done to date, condones the Coalition use of Torture in Iraq. And Vice Versa.

As for Soldiers not being police, every army has a police force attached to it. Many of these MP's have serves in the State police services either prior to becoming Soldiers, or when they're not on active duty with the army.

Neither side has shown all that much conscience in the operation of their war in Iraq.