Interbank transfer - Time to complain about this RIPOFF

egan007

I was watching Brassed off Britain on bbc1 last night (Thur 6th May) It dealt with the issue of interbank transfers.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/bob/banks/

"Slow money transfer times
It can take between 3-5 days to transfer funds between banks in the UK, because they make money on your cash by investing it in the overnight markets. In Sweden transferring funds can take just take a few hours."

According to the show it banks do this in Sweden b/c of pressure from the gov to do it.

We use the same technology in Ireland - as they do in the UK and Sweden. We are entitled to have our money transefered in hours rather than days. The banks are making billions out of our money and we never see a penny of it.
The banks know it's possible they just don't do it because of the money they make.

I rang AIB (my bank) yest to complain - someone is to call me back with a responce on why it takes 3-4 days - i can't wait.

I am also filing a complaint with the Irish Financial Services regulatory authority www.ifsra.ie

I think it's up to US - please ring your bank and make a complaint. - Il post any outcome

egan007

I got a responce from 24hour Service Quality.

They said that the main banks, AIB, BOI...etc..
meet and agree on this time (3-4 days) so all transactions can be cleared. They did not deny that profitable holding accounts were used.

They did say that they are regulated by ifsra - very tightly? - Currency scandle...

I suggested that AIB be a leader in this area and put fast transfers on the agenda at their next interbank meeting. This would be ideal ...im not an idealist.

So i all i got from AIB was that 2-4 days is a policy agreed between banks. They could not tell me if it were possible to carry out these transactions in a matter of hours. They did not know. When i suggested that it was possible - hence me being able to withdraw from my AIB account from any banks machine immediately - they again said they simply did not know the answer.

My next step is to call the regulator and see what they have to say....

Stay tuned

LFCFan

I've highlighted this on the ripoffireland site

govinda

Same day transfers are definitely possible here too, but they're the (expensive*) exception rather than the norm - Northern Rock Ireland offer it for transfers/withdrawals from its Internet only account (including transfers to other banks) but the conditions are extreme to say the least!

http://www.cmr.northernrock-ireland.ie/products.asp?id=338240&group=3&page=1

"If you decide to withdraw funds and need the funds transferred more quickly, then provided we receive your instructions by 11 a.m. we can normally arrange for money to reach your nominated bank or building society account on the same bank working day. A minimum transaction amount of €25,000 and a charge will apply for this service. Please remember that, as an internet-only account, you cannot arrange withdrawals by any other method."

Hardly surprising though, the banking industry in Ireland is notoriously competition-free :-( I still can't believe AIB will go unprosecuted for the currency exchange ripoff.

*edit: The charge that applies is €25

egan007

Ok -
So i just phones the IFSRA - Irish financial services regulatory authority. I was onto their consumer line, i explained what i was investigating.
The agent was helpful and said it for me!

Agent: " So you want to see if we can put pressure on the banks to cut the time to Hours rather than days"
Me: "Yes!!"
That was easy to explain!!

So the is referring it to a regulator who will look at the case

- will update if they ring me back

sceptre

Looks like they've been waiting for a complaint about this.

spongebob

Here is the form

http://www.ifsra.ie/consumer/data/complaintform.pdf

M

deireland

This is a very old practice. Back in 1989 I was complaining about this very issue. Transfers always took ages and it was known that the banks were using the money for profit.

egan007

Originally posted by Muck
Here is the form

http://www.ifsra.ie/consumer/data/complaintform.pdf

M

Have filled in this form and am posting first thing in the morning

Complaints in writing are always better

roguetrader

Ah the good old Irish banks.....

You know there is only 1 rule that all 4 of the big boys in Ireland's banking industry(aka old boys club) adhere to -

FLEECE THE CUSTOMER FOR EVERY PENNY THEY GOT BUT DON'T GET CAUGHT

I'm a currency trader in the City of London, and I have to tell everyone that reads this thread about how banks work - it is simply mindboggling as to the margins that banks operate on. Deutsche Bank have several offices in the city, in the last financial year they reported pre-tax profits of £8 Billion STG. DB have £7 Billion in trading capital that never leaves the bank, it is used everyday by their bonds, futures and currency traders around the world to buy enormous amounts of $USD in cash. Royal Bank of Scotland also followed suit with profits of £6 Billion last year, much to the disgust of their customers.

In Ireland, well....everyone knows what the story is by now. 2 years ago a certain Mr John Rusnak, also a currency trader for AllFirst Bank (a US subsidiary of our friends at AIB) was caught short with $650 Million Dollars in hidden losses on his currency trading.

What followed was simply astounding to anyone that followed this fraud, I was simply baffled by AIB's response to this back in Ireland, because even though they had to take this quite seemingly huge hit on trading losses, they still managed to report very healthy pre-tax profits at the end of their fiscal year. It seems as if Rusnak's rogue trades were simply a drop in the ocean to AIB.


Retail banking can make millionaires out of everyone in involved with it. The recent AIB scandal on their "oversight" of foreign exchange charges wasn't really that suprising TBH. I have used AIB's forex services a few times before, and at the time I didn't really think I was losing that much money in commission and rates.

But how wrong I was......go to www.xe.com/ucc. The next time you want to buy euros or dollars or pounds or any other major currency from your bank, whether it be AIB or BOI, type in the amt you are looking for at the above website, what you will get is the EXACT market rate on that day and time. Then, don't even bother going into the bank (as they may soon be introducing a fee for using their Air conditioning), just call them up and ask them what rate they will offer you on your currency.

I GUARANTEE that you will be so pissed off with your bank once you have done this, because you will realise that you have been shafted by them for years on foreign exchange rates.

What everyone has to realise is that banks can simply think up their forex rates every morning, knowing they will still get the business from their customers every day, because ignorance is what banks thrive on.

What a shame......

alleepally

Excellent post roguetrader.

Tbh though. I don't think anyone is under illusions as to the how banks rip us all off. What does the ordinary man on the street do if he wants some dollars in the morning. He's no option but to go to his local bank. We are a captive consumer - we don't have choice. Banks will continue to make obscene profits because they CAN. THe only way anything will change is to have a highly regulated banking system where profits are capped... But that's not going to happen, EVER.

deireland

Thanks for the facts and figures.
The link you posted above needs a forward slash:
http://www.xe.com/ucc/

Right now, we Irish are powerless. Anyone with power can fleece us. Witness the current gogernment. After squandering the boom money, they seem to be desperate to get every penny they can out of us. Everyone who needed to shop in Northern Ireland and had a bank account to hold their grocery money has received threatening letters from the tax office.

The assumption is that the citizen is a tax criminal unless he/she can prove otherwise. Our only defence against the banks fleecing us every time we went to our nearest town (those of us who live on the border) was to buy sterling for a few weeks of shopping at a time and to put it in a bank account for easy access via an ATM. To withdraw money from your Irish account via a Northern ATM was extremely expensive.

Now, the government has decided that 'Northern Ireland' is 'off-shore' and we are treated like scoundrels. During exactly the same period, AIB was over-charging us for the sterling we needed. They, however, can continue to be treated by the state as 'honest brokers'. It is the first duty of the government to protect its citizens.

roguetrader

Allepally thanks for that, just spreadin the word about the hidden world of retail banking.....

ok thanks for that deireland should have tested the URL link b4 putting in my post.

Would I be right in saying that that clown Bertie Ahern is the most unpopular Taioseach in decades according to recent polls?....

Anyway, thay guy Buckley, the CEO of AIB is under some serious pressure to quit right now....even the current government says its time for him to take his 900,000 annual paypacket and go.

One last thing, would anyone else agree here that there is only one other country in the world that is more corrupt than Ireland - Nigeria?

alleepally

Originally posted by roguetrader
Allepally thanks for that, just spreadin the word about the hidden world of retail banking.....

ok thanks for that deireland should have tested the URL link b4 putting in my post.

Would I be right in saying that that clown Bertie Ahern is the most unpopular Taioseach in decades according to recent polls?....

Anyway, thay guy Buckley, the CEO of AIB is under some serious pressure to quit right now....even the current government says its time for him to take his 900,000 annual paypacket and go.

One last thing, would anyone else agree here that there is only one other country in the world that is more corrupt than Ireland - Nigeria?

He's the teflon Taoiseach and he's suffering in popularity which is very painful for him as he likes to be everyones friend rather than being a decisive and forceful leader.

Re: corruption and Ireland. We're on a par with the US

http://us.rediff.com/money/2003/oct/07corrupt.htm

but I don't know what measuring stick they use but with all the news lately it feels like we should be lower down the list.

Ripwave

Originally posted by alleepally
but I don't know what measuring stick they use but with all the news lately it feels like we should be lower down the list.

They do a survey of "reliable" people like bankers and politicians, and they all said that there's no corruption here!

alleepally

Originally posted by Ripwave
They do a survey of "reliable" people like bankers and politicians, and they all said that there's no corruption here!

That explains it !

egan007

HI All
Got a reply from IFSRA - of course i'm being passed from nilly to jack - they give me the name of another authority to complain to.
Ill scan the letter and post it here.

So that everyone knows where to complain to

eth0_

Just a point I think you forgot to mention about the same day transfers in Sweden - you DO pay a premium for it, it's not free!

I don't understand why it has to take several days other than to rip off the customer. The actual transaction takes seconds, and afaik it's all done online now so it's not like they can claim they need to save up all the transactions and do them in one go so as to save on phone call costs dialling into other banks' SWIFT system!

egan007

Originally posted by eth0_
Just a point I think you forgot to mention about the same day transfers in Sweden - you DO pay a premium for it, it's not free!

I don't understand why it has to take several days other than to rip off the customer. The actual transaction takes seconds, and afaik it's all done online now so it's not like they can claim they need to save up all the transactions and do them in one go so as to save on phone call costs dialling into other banks' SWIFT system!

Indeed - but there is a fee at the moment here and takes 3 days
It's the time i'm complaining about not the cost ( one thing at a time )

eth0_

Originally posted by egan007
Indeed - but there is a fee at the moment here and takes 3 days

Is there? Not something i've ever noticed, i'm with AIB, perhaps it's on the quarterly charges? They should really put a note of the charges beside the transaction on the online banking.

deireland

If you want to send Euros to another country in the Euro zone, there is a cheap way. Use the Paylink system. You need the IBAN number of the bank you are sending the money to as well as your own bank's IBAN. The charge is under 1 Euro. It will still take a few days to get there. However, this is the only charge. This system was introduced (I believe) to take advantage of the Euro. Unfortunately, it is little known.

A client sent us a bank draft drawn on a Spanish bank, thinking that he would be saving us money. Not true. He paid for the draft and we paid 9 euros in bank commision. (If our client had been able to draw the draft on AIB the charges would have been less).

Naturally, if it were not so complicated to set up the Paylink transfer, it would have been ideal for him to do that instead.

Ripwave

Originally posted by deireland
If you want to send Euros to another country in the Euro zone, there is a cheap way. Use the Paylink system. You need the IBAN number of the bank you are sending the money to as well as your own bank's IBAN. The charge is under 1 Euro. It will still take a few days to get there. However, this is the only charge. This system was introduced (I believe) to take advantage of the Euro. Unfortunately, it is little known.

It is little known precisely because the banks don't make as much money on it as they do on the methods people had to use up to now, so the banks won't tell you about it!

deireland

No arguments there. I only found out about it by asking for a full explanation of all of my options for sending and receiving money - with a long queue standing behind me.

Imposter

Originally posted by deireland
If you want to send Euros to another country in the Euro zone, there is a cheap way. Use the Paylink system. You need the IBAN number of the bank you are sending the money to as well as your own bank's IBAN. The charge is under 1 Euro. It will still take a few days to get there. However, this is the only charge. This system was introduced (I believe) to take advantage of the Euro. Unfortunately, it is little known.

I transfer money monthly using this from my austrian account ot my AIB account. It takes 1 working day and costs me 15c on the austrian side and something (not sure how much but it ain't much) on the Irish side.

Transferring money from my AIB account to my AIB credit Card takes longer usually 2 working days.

eth0_

Originally posted by deireland
If you want to send Euros to another country in the Euro zone, there is a cheap way. Use the Paylink system. You need the IBAN number of the bank you are sending the money to as well as your own bank's IBAN. The charge is under 1 Euro. It will still take a few days to get there. However, this is the only charge. This system was introduced (I believe) to take advantage of the Euro. Unfortunately, it is little known.

Can I use this method to transfer money to my UK bank account then, even though the Euro isn't the main currency in the UK?

BuffyBot

Can I use this method to transfer money to my UK bank account then, even though the Euro isn't the main currency in the UK?

AFAIK you can only take advantage of the lower cost rate when transferring to a Euro-zone country.

egan007

Originally posted by eth0_
Is there? Not something i've ever noticed, i'm with AIB, perhaps it's on the quarterly charges? They should really put a note of the charges beside the transaction on the online banking.

Yeah it's part of the quarterly charge - they even charge you for walking up to the counter -i love that one

gibbie

I don't understand how it takes 3 days to transfer within Ireland when it takes 3 days for me to transfer between Ireland and Canada, which by the way I think is still a long time in the age of computers. I also get charged €8 for a 3-day transfer.

Does anyone know a better/cheaper way to transfer money overseas?

roguetrader

Allepally - yeah ur right about Ireland being a captive consumer group especially when it comes to banking.

There is an old boys club within Ireland's banking industry which has been around for years, it consists of the 4 major banks - AIB, BOI, Ulster Bank and NIB.

Now if another international bank wants to enter the Irish market, regardless of whether they are some small regional bank in Eastern Europe or a whale in the US, they will have to receive sponsorship from one of the 4 banks above through the IFA.

Now ask yourself - why would any of the above 4 want to let anyone else into Irish banking when, to put it lightly, they have had a monopoly? It would allow new competition into Ireland who could very easily undercut all 4 of the banks above.

Raskolnikov

Originally posted by roguetrader
Now ask yourself - why would any of the above 4 want to let anyone else into Irish banking when, to put it lightly, they have had a monopoly? It would allow new competition into Ireland who could very easily undercut all 4 of the banks above.

That sounds utterly ridiculous, is it the same case within other EU countries?

Ripwave

Originally posted by Raskolnikov
That sounds utterly ridiculous, is it the same case within other EU countries?

It sounds ridiculous because it's not true.

deireland

In the UK, the Competition Commission has already delivered its provisional conclusions on the effects the banks' 'monopoly' is having on small businesses.
See:
http://www.competition-commission.org.uk/inquiries/completed/2002/banks/09-01pc.htm

In Ireland,
"..The Competition Authority is currently conducting studies of (1) the medical, legal and construction professions, (2) competition in the provision of banking services and (3) competition issues in the non-life insurance market. On completion of these studies (expected in 2004), recommendations will be made for changes to practices that are limiting competition in these areas. .."
See:
http://www.finance.gov.ie/viewdoc.asp?DocID=1717&CatID=45&StartDate=01+January+2003&m=

Still no sign of the Irish report. They could save us money by copying the UK Commision's report and than adding a few words like 'except it's worse in Ireland because the banks here have an even tighter monipoly".