Ruud Van on his way out?

The Rooster

Apparently United are willing to sell their star striker, as he is not getting along with either management or the players.

The latest episode last week was where he hit David Bellion. Mike Phelan had to force Ruud to apologise, and as punishment he was removed from the squad for the Liverpool match even though he was fit.

This appears to have been the final straw for both the club and the player and a parting of the ways, for an undoubtedly big transfer fee, is inevitable.

Real Madrid and Barcelona have already expressed interest, which will inevitably lead to specualtion that either Ronaldo or Kluivert will go in the opposite direction.

Harry2001

Well if he's started to throw this toys out of the pram then they are well shot of him.

Is it true he has a £30 million clause in his contract?

kida

please post a reliable source as this is probably just nonsense.

The Rooster

Apparently United are willing to sell their star striker, as he is not getting along with either management or the players - BBC 5Live this morning and The Examiner yesterday.

The latest episode last week was where he hit David Bellion. Mike Phelan had to force Ruud to apologise, and as punishment he was removed from the squad for the Liverpool match even though he was fit - The Examiner.

This appears to have been the final straw for both the club and the player and a parting of the ways, for an undoubtedly big transfer fee, is inevitable - The Rooster.

Real Madrid and Barcelona have already expressed interest - BBC 5Live
which will inevitably lead to specualtion that either Ronaldo or Kluivert will go in the opposite direction - The Rooster.

Bannor

See my posts in these threads:

Beckham and Ronaldo to Chelsea

Van Nistelrooy & Trezeguet

Further updates : Van Nisterooy and his agent Linse have met with the president of Real Madrid in the past week and agreed on a move. All that remains is for Perez to sort out a deal with Man Utd. Barcelona have given up on the player for now, Trezeguet is their primary target and they are also lining up a move for Owen. Inter Milan have been buttering up Saviola so he may not be at the Nou Camp for much longer.

cournioni

Link to the story from manutd.com:
Manchester United have refuted reports linking Ruud van Nistelrooy with a move to Spain, insisting the striker is "not for sale".

Two weeks ago the club moved to quell tabloid speculation that suggested van Nistelrooy was a target for Barcelona - David Gill's response a clear "Ruud is not for sale".

The United striker also denounced the rumours. "I am happy at Manchester United," he told ManUtd.com. "I recently signed a new contract and I wouldn’t have committed my future to the club if I wasn’t.

"I am enjoying my football, the fans are second to none, and any reports of me leaving are just wild rumours."

Thursday's tabloid newspapers carry stories linking Ruud with a transfer to La Liga, but United have again rubbished the reports.

They were saying the same about Beckham last year, which is what I'm worried about. :dunno:

Bannor

Originally posted by The Rooster
Real Madrid and Barcelona have already expressed interest - BBC 5Live
which will inevitably lead to specualtion that either Ronaldo or Kluivert will go in the opposite direction - The Rooster.

Perez wants rid of Raul who has been stirring things up at the club for the past year. If Perez is re-elected as the club President then it will be Raul who goes in exchange. There will be no further progress on the deal expected until after the elections because if it becomes public knowledge before then Perez will be slaughtered.

vorbis

Bannor, I couldn't see Real selling Raul, it would drive their fans nuts and the new striker in would probably get a torrid time. Say they swapped Van N for him. If Nistelrooy didn't score in the first 3 matches for Real, he'd get slaughtered by the fans. They'd also lose a lot of merchandising by selling Raul. There's no other spanish superstar in the team. Personally I think they don't need any more strikers. I still think they shouldn't hav ebought Ronaldo. Morientes + Raul is good enough for any club. Defenders like Nesta or Cannavaro would add far more to the team.

cournioni

The first thing I look for in any article of this nature are quotes. I notice that there are none from Van Nistelrooy, his agent or anyone representing Real.

Therefore, my first reaction would be that this is all bollocks. Given that Ruud has stated his wish to stay at the club numerous times in the past this would all seem, at first glance, to be nothing more that mischief making by the tabloids.

However, there could be some truth in this. This all seems vaguely familiar to the Beckham saga last season. If this were to be true and we were seriously considering selling Ruud, I would have to question United's ambition as a club. Maybe Ruud has become disillusioned with the way the club is headed, the kind of football we are playing and the calibre of player we're attracting.

I hope the latter is not true...

Bannor

Vorbis, that's why Perez is waiting until after the elections. Marca is being primed to start leaking stories about Raul's antics, including talking to representatives of Barcelona. Once that bit of news hits the streets, Perez will then have a free hand to sell him to any club outside of Spain.

As I've said before the problem at Real Madrid is that the club president decideds who comes and goes at the club. Queiroz was promised two new defenders which never materialised, he has personally negotiated deals with Juve and Roma for Lilian Thuram and Walter Samuel but Perez won't sign them because they're not attack minded enough.

Imposter

I'm coming to the conclusion now that Fergie needs to go soon. Yes he has been the most successful manager utd have had and yes players and/or the board might also be part of the problem. I just think that a manager who would let Beckham be sold so cheap and is now willing to sell (if any of this is true) his best striker (by a long way) isn't doing enough to keep utd among the best teams in Europe.

If your team is to be the best it has to keep it's star players and not sell them to other top teams. After all you should be trying to strengthen your squad not make it significantly weaker. Ok problems do surface between certain players and the manager but the issues with Beckham, Keane and Van Nistelroy all in the last 2 years is too much.

And that's not even considering the Magnier episode.

Shaque attack

if all this is true it will be the worst news for utd fans for quiet a while, far worse than losing beckham tbh. Van Nistelroy is by far the best striker utd have had for years and if he leaves it signals the end of an era for fergie and co. i cant see utd being able to replace ruud with anyone near his quality.

tHE vAGGABOND

jesus lads...

Have you lot not read the papers over the last few days?

Owen and Gerard to Arsenal or Chelsea

Half of the real madrid team to chelsea

There is no news ATM, so the journalists are talking **** to fill space in their papers.

PHB

Ruud had a bad season this year so I can't see people really wanting to try take him away from Man United.

I however would love to see Man United buy a quality world class striker to play alongside him, somebody perhaps who is a forward rather than a striker, like Raul

Waylander

Imposter, people said exactly the same thing when he sold Ince, Hughes and Kanchelskis. That was nine years, one treble and six league championships ago. As far as I am concerned he can have the job for as long as he wants and I will support him. Also, I think the loss of Beckham is much exagerated, and it is certainly not the reason United are 11 points behind Arsenal. In fact, ac ouple of weeks ago, and I think this may still be true, United had racked up more points then they had at the same stage of last season when they won the league. Arsenal have been exceptional this season, and to still be unbeaten is a record that will probably stand for a very long time. Also, I think Saha will bang in alot of goals for United. I am really looking forward to seeing him for a full season, I just hope Ruud is there playing alongside him.

Thorbar

Looks like he's staying but you can never be too sure.

VAN NISTELROOY NOT FOR SALE

Also I don't think 26 goals in a season where a player has suffered from injures should be considered bad.

Villain

I think tHE vAGGABOND summed it up really, with no English international to write about the papers are creating stories to sell papers.

Imposter

Originally posted by Waylander
Imposter, people said exactly the same thing when he sold Ince, Hughes and Kanchelskis. That was nine years, one treble and six league championships ago. As far as I am concerned he can have the job for as long as he wants and I will support him. Also, I think the loss of Beckham is much exagerated, and it is certainly not the reason United are 11 points behind Arsenal. In fact, ac ouple of weeks ago, and I think this may still be true, United had racked up more points then they had at the same stage of last season when they won the league. Arsenal have been exceptional this season, and to still be unbeaten is a record that will probably stand for a very long time. Also, I think Saha will bang in alot of goals for United. I am really looking forward to seeing him for a full season, I just hope Ruud is there playing alongside him.

I dunno. When all those other players left Fergie still seemed in control. I just don't think he seems in control now. I didn't dissagree with him selling Beckham but I did dissagree with selling him for the price he did. Hopefully Saha will do his stuff next season but I think after all this time a change of Manager would be good too.

elbow316

There was a guy from The Times on Newstalk's sports show last night who "Confirmed" that there was a bust-up between Kean and Van Nist last week. Just a verbal thing with Keane apparently saying that Nistelrooy hadn't been pulling his weight ever since signing that new contract.

scojones

Ireland.com are reporting that he's not on his way out.

kida

if this is the crap that is coming out now- imagine what we are going to have to face when the season is over. Chelsea will be buying everyone. This is all media crap - as som one mentioned there are no quotes.

tHE vAGGABOND

as bono said, dont believe everything you read

it may or may not be true, but the fact is no one knows about the clauses in in his contract bar man u, his agent and him!

There is a presidential election in real ATM so they will promise the world to get the votes wont they..

redspider

Originally posted by Imposter
I just think that a manager who would let Beckham be sold so cheap and is now willing to sell (if any of this is true) his best striker (by a long way) isn't doing enough to keep utd among the best teams in Europe.

I agree with Imposter. I thought it unusual to say the least that Man U sold Beckham last year to Real Madrid, a team that would be competing with Man U for the CL. Lets be clear - there is only one real competition each year when it comes to money and that is the CL. This is what the clubs must be interested in. The difference between 1st and 2nd in the english premiership is small in comparison to the difference between the quarter final and the semi of the CL. The CL is <i>the</i> competition.

Given that this is the situation, why would a team sell one of their good players to their rivals? It doesn't make strategic sense. That sent a clear message to me last year that Man U were not really going to compete for the CL.

Keeping players is one of the differences with Arsenal who have managed to keep all their good players (and have paid large salaries to do so eg: Arsenals wage bill in 2002 was 50% more than Liverpool's). They did succumb to selling Anelka and Overmars but thats a few years ago. Although Wenger is happy to have won the league this year, inside he is disappointed at his lack of success in the CL, and a semi or final spot would have been his target this year (given Arsenal's poor record in the comp).

If Man U sell Van Nistelrooy, Man U will be taking another step sideways, and although they have a very productive youth programme (which supplies players cheaply) I dont think you can win a CL with that approach. They would seem to be happy getting to the quarters, and then possible getting further from there with fortune. People seem to forget that the 1999 win they had was extremely fortunate in the final and Bayern really deserved it. (Granted their 3-2 win over Juventus in the semi was a deserving performance).

Of course, Real M might be in the market for Ruud if Ronaldo and Beckham are really heading to Chelsea. I would be surprised if they move though, unless Abramovich is going to spend silly amounts of money with his "illegal" billion and if Real M have decided to buy a few defenders and go for a balanced team to win trophies. None of these things will be decided until the Real M chairmanship is chosen I suspect and then we will have to see which players move where. Real M have always been a large influence in the market with their willingness to pay huge sums for the “star” players, but now with the Abramovich money also in the heap, Chelski are another big spender. The sooner Fifa bring in financial regulations making football spending fairer, the closer and perhaps the better the sport will be.


-redspider

mr_angry

It would be madness for Utd to sell Van Nistelrooy. He's quite possibly the best striker Utd have ever had (although in relative terms he hasn't played enough games to rank up there with the greats). The only reasons I can possibly see him leaving for are:
- a major bust up with Fergie himself
- he has personally demanded to leave the club

Since neither of these have been reported by a reputable source, or with any kind of evidence, I can only assume that its a load of rubbish. As an Arsenal fan, I'd love to see him leaving Utd, but I'm not going to start getting my hopes up based on this kind of tabloid trash.

If I was a United fan, my only concern would be that he hasn't played much lately, and Utd have acted this way before with Beckham. Still, I'm convinced its crap.

GuanYin

Even with the magnier incident I'd say Utd would be insane to let Fergie go.
Players come and go and this is always adjusted for, managers give clubs stability.

Fergie has made a few mistakes but he can hardly be found totallyat fault this season, even if it wasn't a successful one for Utd. The only thing he could be guilty of is perhaps adding to low player morale and to this effect I wouldn't be surprised to see a clear out this summer.

It would be quite in character for him to rid himself of dominent personalities in favour of young lads he can intimidate.

In this sense I wouldn't be surprised if Van Nist goes or even Keane. They would both need to be for a high enough price imho.

_blank_

The player himself has stated twice in the past week that he won't be leaving, as has the club.

The stories are mere press speculation, fuelled by agents who are out to make a quick buck, potential presidents of big clubs in Spain, and newspaper editors desperate to sell their rags.

I won't believe any press speculation until I see a player sitting down with a manager at a press conference holding the scarf of his new club aloft and saying it's his dream move.

bucks73

I cant see Ruud leaving. He seems happy enough and has signed a new contract. This is just the usual tripe that the tabloids churn out when its a slow week.

Originally posted by redspider
People seem to forget that the 1999 win they had was extremely fortunate in the final and Bayern really deserved it. -redspider

Yeah right. United were the best team in the competition that season so to say they didnt deserve it is crap.

vorbis

Yeah right. United were the best team in the competition that season so to say they didnt deserve it is crap.

aww come on bucks73, scoring two goals in injury time in a match you weren't dominating is considered very lucky. Are you also forgetting that that oversized giant Jancker even hit the crossbar 5 minutes from time.

bucks73

Bayern actually hit the woodwork twice so their finishing was poor. United were the best team in the CL that season and having to play the final without Keane and Scholes left them a little light in midfield. Bayern brought on defenders to settle for the 1-0 win and in the end were caught.

They got exactly what they deserved. Nothing.

It could be however that the greatest night of my life has blurred my memory of the actual game.:)

Big Ears

I was watching soccer Am this week or last week and they had a little piece of the programme about prize money in competitions . If the following titles are won prize money through out the whole of these tournaments would add up to :


Premiership : 10.5 million
Champions league : 10.8 million ( plus gate receipts )

In the Premier league you could get a full ground every game but in the Champions league u have to progress to even have a crowd for a game . So all in all The champions leage is only worth 0.3 million plus 6 home gate receipts more than the prem if won .

valor

its all about the TV money mate

PHB

Is that if you win?

Look at the stats for 3rd place and 3rd place.

Also a quick bit of math would suggest.


60000(capacityish) * 15(for a ticket, not sure just a guess) = 900000
per match

I think you're maths might be a bit off

_blank_

This should put an end to all the speculation.

The board of Manchester United have written to Real Madrid and Barcelona to tell them hands off Ruud.

http://football.guardian.co.uk/News_Story/0,1563,1206638,00.html

The Rooster

I think what is a fact is that he was banished from Old Trafford for the Liverpool game, and his relationship with Ferguson is not good at the moment.

That does not mean he will be sold, although of course the papers have made that speculative jump.

United would be mental to sell him, as he would be near impossible to replace, and they appear to have moved quickly to let everyone know he's not for sale.

That is not quite the end of it. The one question mark left is how does RvN feel. Before the incident last week, he said he was happy, but has that changed? There has been nothing at all from him this week, but the papers have said that his agent said they've agreed personal terms with Madrid.

IF (Big IF) that is true then United will have little choice. Better to cash in on him rather than keep an unhappy sulky player who would underperform in those circumstances.

The next question then is would United be prepared to give the 40m (or whatever) to Ferguson to spend, given his unhappy dealings with big name players recently, i.e. Beckham, Veron, RvN ??

SteM

Originally posted by Imposter
I'm coming to the conclusion now that Fergie needs to go soon. Yes he has been the most successful manager utd have had and yes players and/or the board might also be part of the problem. I just think that a manager who would let Beckham be sold so cheap and is now willing to sell (if any of this is true) his best striker (by a long way) isn't doing enough to keep utd among the best teams in Europe.

How can you come to the conclusion that Fergie should leave based on Beckham being sold too cheaply and tabloid rumours that RVN is leaving!?

It wasn't down to Fergie how much Beckham was sold for when it was decided that he was surplus to requirements at United . The manager doesn't negotiate a selling price for a player, that would have been down to Kenyon or the board. They didn't get enough for Beckham so it's down to them, not SAF.

There is no proof that RVN is leaving - he's come out recently and said he wants to stay, United say they're not selling. His agent can't force RVN to move and United don't have a 'selling price' clause in any of their player contracts according to people in the know.

So Imposter, do you STILL think the most successful manager in United's history should leave?

Ole said recently that there was no training ground bust up at Carrington between RVN and Bellion. Every player has had a tongue lashing from Keane ffs. United fans had better get used to all these rumours flying around during the summer. We've had a poor season by our standards so the tabloid sh!t will be flying. Don't believe anything until it actually HAPPENS and if it does then just remember that you support a club, not one or 2 individuals.

Bannor

Originally posted by The Rooster
IF (Big IF) that is true then United will have little choice. Better to cash in on him rather than keep an unhappy sulky player who would underperform in those circumstances.

From what I've been told there is no IF in this case. Everything is agreed between Perez, Van Nistelrooy and his agent Linse. The question mark over the deal is whether Perez gets re-elected as president of Real Madrid. If that happens then formal negotiations with Man Utd will happen. An informal approach was made already - Perez asked the club how much for Van Nistelrooy and the response was €45M. Perez doesn't agree with that valuation but Man Utd are prepared to sell so negotiations will take place.

And if you want to believe the CEO regarding his letter writing skills, go ahead. But remember last season the club denied that Beckham was leaving. Mr. Gill and the board's primary concern is the PLC's share price. What would happen if they came out and said they were listening to offers for the best asset on the playing staff?

The big IF in the whole thing is Perez getting re-elected.

_blank_

Originally posted by Bannor
From what I've been told there is no IF in this case. Everything is agreed between Perez, Van Nistelrooy and his agent Linse.

So, if this is to be believed, then it must mean that Manchester United have given permission to someone at Real to approach Van Nistelrooy. Otherwise, Real have broken the rules.

Clubs cannot approach under-contract players and negotiate with them wihout permission from the club to which the player in contracted.

Harry2001

Originally posted by seansouth
So, if this is to be believed, then it must mean that Manchester United have given permission to someone at Real to approach Van Nistelrooy. Otherwise, Real have broken the rules.

Clubs cannot approach under-contract players and negotiate with them wihout permission from the club to which the player in contracted.

Clubs break the rules all the time don't they?

Ferguson is a legend at tapping up players

The big clubs don't care about a little slap on the wrist from UEFA

Imposter

Originally posted by SteM
How can you come to the conclusion that Fergie should leave based on Beckham being sold too cheaply and tabloid rumours that RVN is leaving!?

It wasn't down to Fergie how much Beckham was sold for when it was decided that he was surplus to requirements at United . The manager doesn't negotiate a selling price for a player, that would have been down to Kenyon or the board. They didn't get enough for Beckham so it's down to them, not SAF.

There is no proof that RVN is leaving - he's come out recently and said he wants to stay, United say they're not selling. His agent can't force RVN to move and United don't have a 'selling price' clause in any of their player contracts according to people in the know.

So Imposter, do you STILL think the most successful manager in United's history should leave?

Yes.
I can't see how you thought your little spiel would make me change my mind but anyways, to explain.
Of course Fergie is the most successful manager in utd's history, but does that make him the best manager at the moment? Imo no it doesn't. Do you think that he should stay for as long as he wants, even if say the team is down near or even in the relegation zone?

You seem to think that Ferguson has no say in how much a player gets sold for. I would imagine if he doesn't have the power to say what Backham is valued at or what it would cost for a similar quality replacement then the board don't trust him or don't treat him with the respect he deserves. If he does have that power then what you've said is just wrong.

Now if he doesn't have the trust of the board how can he stay on as Manager and expect to get fund to improve the team? If he does have that power then surely selling Beckham for such a low price wasn't the best of ideas and would call into question his ability to keep improving the team.

Of course it's hard to know for sure on most things that are reported in the media until they actually happen but Utd have been below par for a few seasons now.

But what I can base my opinion on is fact. The fact that Utd seriously underperformed this year. The fact that they have done so (especially in the CL) for a number of years now.

Basically I just think that it is time for a change of Manager. Ferguson has done great but of late he's not up to the club's expectations. Of course it will be hard to find someone to replace him and it would be also a very difficult job for whoever does replace him as he will constantly be compared with Ferguson, but it's something that I think the club needs.

SteM

Originally posted by Imposter
But what I can base my opinion on is fact. The fact that Utd seriously underperformed this year. The fact that they have done so (especially in the CL) for a number of years now.

Basically I just think that it is time for a change of Manager. Ferguson has done great but of late he's not up to the club's expectations. Of course it will be hard to find someone to replace him and it would be also a very difficult job for whoever does replace him as he will constantly be compared with Ferguson, but it's something that I think the club needs.

Well, that's fine everyone is entitled to their opinion and I'd agree that United have poor in the last few seasons event though they won the league last year. But, in your post you said Ferguson should go because:

1) Beckham was sold for less than him market value. I agree and have post that opinion on other threads here before, but I'm almost certain the final amount is NOT down to the manager.
2) He's willing to sell RVN. Well, all we have is media speculation about that.

At least you've given a decent reason why you feel he should go now - based on facts rather than reasons that are out of his hands and pure speculation which I felt was unfair.

On the subject of RVN leaving, there was a fans forum debate on MUTV last night . At the start of the programme Gill did as much as he could to put to bed any idea of RVN leaving. He said he had spoken to Ruud yesterday and nothing had changed since the player made his comments 10 days ago. He wrote to the Spanish clubs to tell them this which he said was an unusual thing for United to do. After that he said he didn't see what else he could do.

I thought it was fair enough, he can just keep denying it but people 'who know more' than him will keep on speculating I guess :rolleyes:

_blank_

Originally posted by Imposter
But what I can base my opinion on is fact. The fact that Utd seriously underperformed this year. The fact that they have done so (especially in the CL) for a number of years now.

Seriously underperformed? I cannot fathom why you would say this. At one stage ( perhaps even now ) they had/have the same amount of points as last year. They haven't underperformed, if anything, Arsenal have overperformed.

As for the Champions League, they have been in the Quarter Finals consistantly for the post number of seasons, and this year they perhaps would have gone further if it were not for an unbelievable refereeing decision to disallow the Paul Scholes goal against Porto.

Until the Rio Ferdinand ban, Manchester United had the best defence in the Premier League. Here lies the problem, perhaps the manager should have bought in cover. But remember this, he needed to bring cover for Van Nistelrooy in the shape of Louis Saha. Ferguson is not known for bringing in players mid-season, and he didn't want to bring in another player as well as Saha. Perhaps the board wouldn't sanction further spending at that time of the year.

Imposter

Originally posted by seansouth
Seriously underperformed? I cannot fathom why you would say this. At one stage ( perhaps even now ) they had/have the same amount of points as last year. They haven't underperformed, if anything, Arsenal have overperformed.

Seriously underperformed might be a bit strong but underperformed isn't. Why have Arsenal more points? Are they so much better? Are the other teams worse? If Arsenal have improved so much then surely Utd should also be expected to improve somewhat at least. If the other teams have gotten weaker then Utd should have those points as well.

As for the Champions League, they have been in the Quarter Finals consistantly for the post number of seasons, and this year they perhaps would have gone further if it were not for an unbelievable refereeing decision to disallow the Paul Scholes goal against Porto.

Decisions will always go against you just the same as they will go for you. One year that may be an excuse but consistantly only getting to the quarter-finals is not improving and that's what utd should be aiming to do.

Until the Rio Ferdinand ban, Manchester United had the best defence in the Premier League. Here lies the problem, perhaps the manager should have bought in cover. But remember this, he needed to bring cover for Van Nistelrooy in the shape of Louis Saha. Ferguson is not known for bringing in players mid-season, and he didn't want to bring in another player as well as Saha. Perhaps the board wouldn't sanction further spending at that time of the year.

Perhaps he should have adequate cover before it's neccesary. Even if this suspension was a little unusual and unexpected players can always get injured. A team who expects to be among Europes elite should have adequate cover in most if not all positions. Without Ferdinand the other centre halfs have looked ordinary. One decent centre-half cannot be considered enough.

The Rooster

I thought United got a reasonable price for Beckham. He started off very well, but he was dire last week against Barca, and he's been playing like that since Christmas. Plus he was out of the team more than in it for the last 6 months of the previous season. Ferguson obviously preferred Solksjaer for the position, and with Fletcher and Ronaldo ready for bit piece roles he thought he'd be more than covered. OGS missing most of the season made a mess of things and forced him to play DF and Ron more often than he would have liked.

Depsite the amount of points Arsenal, ManU and Chelsea have got, I firmly believe none have been brilliant. They have amassed the amount of points they have because the rest of the division is so poor. Liverpool seem to lose every other week, yet they're still joint 4th. Newcastle went over 6 months without an away win in the league, yet they're still joint 4th! Those two are as close points-wise to 3rd place as they are to the relegation zone! Yet still the rest of the teams are that mediocre that none of them could step up to the plate and take the 4th position - albeit Villa are making a decent last gasp effort.

So IMO this is a weaker United team this year than in recent years, and Arsenal, with the likes of Edu, Gilberto, Lauren and Lehmann being regulars cannot be compared with the great Arsenals of the past, never mind the great teams of the past.

Waylander

Spot on Sean I coul dnot agree with you more. Lads Arsenal are unbeaten all season. There is no real shame in finishing behind a team that has not lost in 34 games. I still think United will pass Chelsea out, but even if they do not, Chelsea spent over £100m last summer and this was spent on a team that already came fourth last year. These two team have raised their games hugely this season, now the ball is back in Uniteds court for next season. Imposter, Fergie would have made the decision to sell him but would have left negotiations to Kenyon. He was probably asked for a guideline price, but I would say that is all the input he would have wanted. As regards the price they got, I think that they did Ok, I think the structure of the payments could have been better but the price was fine, and Beckham had decided to go after the Barca promises had been made, so as someone already said there is no real point in keeping a player who does not want to be there. Remember Beckham finished last season on hte bench with Ole playing wide right. Personally I think Queiroz will be back at Old Trafford next season, and United are always better when Fergie has a proper number 2. He will make some good buys during the summer and he will be hungry for the league and the CL. He is certainly far from the relegation zone that you suggested imposter.

Imposter

I more or less agree with what the 2 of ye have just said. I agree keeping Beckham if he wanted to go wouldn't do either side any good but I thought the price was way too low considering how marketable Beckham is.

As for the relegation question that was aimed at something Stem had said and was a question not an opinion!

Do either of you think that a new manager might give the team something extra that's been lacking with Fergie for the last while?

SteM

Originally posted by The Rooster
I thought United got a reasonable price for Beckham. He started off very well, but he was dire last week against Barca, and he's been playing like that since Christmas.

Sorry, we're getting right off topic now Do you not think that Beckham's worth to Real at the time was as much to do with the money he would bring in and how much he would raise RM's profile in the Far East? If that's the case United were not just selling a footballer but a commodity and I think we undervalued him.

@ Waylander, I agree about the structure of the payments. I just hope that if Beckham hops to Chelsea or Arsenal it won't mean that United will get a reduced fee!

SteM

Originally posted by Imposter
Do you think that he should stay for as long as he wants, even if say the team is down near or even in the relegation zone?

Obviously not, but there's a big difference between :

a) a season being near the relegation zone and
b) a season coming third or possibly second in the league, being in the quarter finals of the CL with an FA cup final still to come, with a young team that's is going through a transitional period.

Don't think they're comparable.

Imposter

Originally posted by SteM
Obviously not, but there's a big difference between :

a) a season being near the relegation zone and
b) a season coming third or possibly second in the league, being in the quarter finals of the CL with an FA cup final still to come, with a young team that's is going through a transitional period.

Don't think they're comparable.

You do realise that the question was asked in relation to this statement that you made don't you?

Originally posted by SteM
So Imposter, do you STILL think the most successful manager in United's history should leave?

In that context it was a valid question.

_blank_

I am a United fan ( as you prob all know ), and this "Transitional Period" thing is wearing a bit thin with me at this stage. It seems to me the words have been bandied about since after the treble win in 99, that is 5 years ago now

The Rooster

£15m for the marketing etc.
£8m-12m, depending on results, for the player.

Very hard to value admittedly. And Real have probably done well out of it, because he was brilliant at the start. But if he'd started the season the way he's been playing for the last few months, he could have been benched, and then the marketing asset would not be nearly as valuable. Not many people want to buy jersies with subs names on them.

Bannor

Originally posted by seansouth
So, if this is to be believed, then it must mean that Manchester United have given permission to someone at Real to approach Van Nistelrooy. Otherwise, Real have broken the rules.

Clubs cannot approach under-contract players and negotiate with them wihout permission from the club to which the player in contracted.

Last summer Mr.Kenyon and Mr.Ferguson open negotiations with Ronaldinho's agent (his brother) without approaching PSG. The agent led them on a merry little dance while Barcelona spoke to PSG regarding a possible transfer.

Ruud Van Nistelrooy, Jaap Stam, Juan Sebastian Veron, Michael Silvestre, Roy Keane and Harry Kewell were also approached directly by Man Utd. :eek: