Being frisked by gardai

qBot

I don't know if this is the right forum for this, so mods feel free to move it as needs be.


I was just frisked while coming out of an Esso grocery shop. I was with two other friends when an unmarked car pulled up beside us within the grounds of the petrol station. At first i thought they were asking for directions so i had just turned towards them when two gardai stepped out of the car brandishing their id's. I was the focus of their attention and they asked/demanded to search me. I refused at first, asking to see their badge twice. I saw it three times in all but never did get a good look. As far as i was concerned they were college students playing a prank. One guard who looked no older than me kept my friends entertained while the smaller guard frisked me. I didn't want to allow him at first but when he showed off his hand cuffs i obliged. I also asked him why i was chosen and each time he refused to give me an explanation. He wanted to know was i carrying any banned substances and was i responsible for what was in my pockets. Obviously he found nothing. But as he frisked me he let me know that i was being frisked under some act.

Now i don't think they have the right to frisk me like that. They picked me completely out of the blue for no valid reason or atleast they didn't give me one. I want to know from any body out their whos in the know what laws they have that allow em to do this.

btw, my friends were asked too if they had any drugs and they were lightly searched but right from the beginning i was their focus.

Winters

I believe they either need to arrest you or gain your permission on order to search you or "frisk" you. Not 100% sure but I think thats right.

If you knew what act it may help. If you were able to obtain their names you could have lodged an official complaint, or even if you knew their division [You can see this by the letter on the badge on their shoulders].

If indeed it was people messing about, I think it is illegal to impersonate a member of the Gardaí. Either way you would need to know more information to take any action against them.

sound_wave

maybe you got that look about ya. no offence to you ..

gardai can be utter ****ers just for the sake of it sometime.

Lainey

oh my god.. this must have been very distressing for you.. i would certainly find out if they have the right to publically humiliate you like this if i was you.. and you could go down to the station and make a complaint or at the least ask can you be told why this search was carried out..

i can understand the gardai are faced with a very big job tryin to keep up with the drug abuse in ireland and they have to search people but i would def go down to your local station and ask to speak to someone regarding this.. if it was my son or brother i would certainly be down there looking for and explanation cos for certain if someone you know had seen this search the rumour mill would be well under way..

pickarooney

It's the cops, they do what they want. Get used to it, it'll only get worse...

StickyMcGinty

you bin punk'd

qBot

I believe they either need to arrest you or gain your permission on order to search you or "frisk" you. Not 100% sure but I think thats right.

Ya that might be right, but they didn't make that clear to me either. I got that impression as he was frisking me (not before) when he said "by giving us permission under the blah blah act"

If you knew what act it may help. If you were able to obtain their names you could have lodged an official complaint, or even if you knew their division [You can see this by the letter on the badge on their shoulders].

Can't remember what act it was, however i think he mentioned 1998. Can't remember their names either, I was too p****d off at the time. As for their badge on the shoulders, they weren't in uniform.

If indeed it was people messing about, I think it is illegal to impersonate a member of the Gardaí. Either way you would need to know more information to take any action against them.

Sorry, should have said it, but it was only initially that i thought it was a prank.




My main beef with this is, what is stopping any guard pulling over anyone they decide for no valid reason. They should as far as im concerned given me a reason.

silverside

legally if they have reason to suspect you might be carrying drugs, they can search you without a warrant.

best thing to do is just bite your lip, yes guard no guard three bags full guard, and walk on. some of them are only waiting for you to give a bit of attitude because they can give it back 10 times over and there is nothing you can do about it.

qBot

Originally posted by silverside
legally if they have reason to suspect you might be carrying drugs, they can search you without a warrant.

Ya, but they didn't give me one. Whos to say they just didn't like the look of me. What if they were simply bored and wanted a laugh.

qBot

Originally posted by Lainey
oh my god.. this must have been very distressing for you..

I wouldn't be one to get distressed, but it made me very very mad. The guard was cocky out too and i can't stand people with smart mouths giving me c**p

silverside

i see your point, but that is all they need to be able to say as an excuse. I was once stopped taking a shortcut down a laneway in temple bar and searched, reason he gave me was 'this area is often used by drug dealers', nothing personal.

I know a lot of people shopping in the esso late at night are getting rizlas - so there was, statistically speaking, a reasonable chance you could have been carrying a bit of hash.

even if they were bored and looking for a laugh, wouldnt surprise me, best advice is still to cooperate, then bitch about it to your mates later if you want.

^whitey^

Was only just talking about this (frisking / searching) to a gaurd this morning, albiet not in a drugs context so silverside may be right in saying "legally if they have reason to suspect you might be carrying drugs, they can search you without a warrant". But from what i've learnt this morning they'd want to have a very good reason to suspect you of carrying drugs

Otherwise they can't (or anyone else in a security position) search/frisk you without asking your permission and even at that there should be two gaurds there or cctv e.t.c to prove that you did give the gaurd/doorman/whatever permission to search/frisk you.

If they do search you or your bags without your consent they are stepping on thin ice and you could land them in a load of ****e.

IrishMike

Power to Search

The gardai* have the power to search a person, vehicle, vessel or aircraft without a warrant provided they have reasonable ground for suspicion that a crime is being committed under the Misuse of Drugs Act.


Reasonable Grounds


* "The demeanour of the suspect
* The gait and manner of the suspect
* Any knowledge the officer may have of the suspect's character or background
* Whether the suspect is carrying anything and the nature of what he is carrying
* The mode of his dress, bulges in his clothing and particularly when these factors are considered in the light of all the surrounding circumstances
* The time of the observation
* Any remarks or conversation which he makes to any other person which may be over-heard by an officer
* The street or the area involved
* Information from a third party, who may in given circumstances be known or unknown
* Any connection between that person and any other person whose conduct is reasonably suspect
* The suspect's apparent connection to any overt criminal activity".



Bastards

sceptre

Originally posted by cuan
I saw it three times in all but never did get a good look.

Popular move apparently, the quick open and snap shut (at least according to a mate of mine who visits Shannon occasionally and takes pictures of Worldwide Airlines jets). I tend to think of it as the **** you wallet snap. Tell them it looks like a blockbuster membership card. They're going to frisk you anyway.

the_syco

Piggy; "Why did you walk away when we pulled into the car park?"
Me; "I just went off to see if a mate was at home"
Piggy; "Sure. Wots in the bag"
Garda see's its full of munchies.
Piggy; "I'll have to ask you to empty your pockets"
Upon emptying them he see's nothing and does a brief frisk, mainly patting the pockets.
Piggy; "OK, but you were acting very suspicous."

Me;"Sorry about acting suspicous, Garda"

With my heart going thump-thump-thump, I walk off. I then meet up with a mate, go into a secluded area, and finish off the spliff. Thank god I snuffed it when I saw the cop car again.
:rolleyes:

Upon looking back, luckily I waasn't wearing my usual attire of combats and trenchcoat. Also, very luckily, I was wearing my navy-blue hat, and not my balaclava-hat I wear when I can't find my navy-blue hat.
Think of it; combats, trenchcoat, balaclava. That talk would've been intresting.

Civilian_Target

You got frisked. So what? A couple of policemen patted you a bit, to check you weren't breaking the law. You should be glad that the Gardaí are out there, looking for lawbreakers.

The likely reason is that you look similar to some dealer or other dodgy guy living in the same area, so lets hope the Gardaí get him.

I wouldn't go complaining, the Gardai are there to protect you, and if you get frisked once in a blue moon, its a whole lot better than being assaulted (for example)

I've been frisked twice by Gardaí in the last 3 years, probably because of my long hair, and I'm not complaining, I have nothing to hide. In fact, last time they frisked me, they even found a bottle cap in my pocket!

*edit*
Never been frisked in Belfast, however

Ajnag

Its Ireland and the guards have a law to suit every need.If your not home by curfew they use they use the public order act.If you dont suit their opinion of what a respectable person looks like they can search you, and if yer driving forget about it.And if this wasnt enough, the testimoney of a guard holds far higher weight then yours, tough **** if the guard is lying through his teeth.One cop round my area was caught lying by the judge, yets hes still on duty.Way I see it is we now have the technology to place a camera and mic on every guard and to record their every move.Its time that real evidense superseced what the cop claims happened.

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

The likely reason is that you look similar to some dealer or other dodgy guy living in the same area, so lets hope the Gardaí get him.

I wouldn't go complaining, the Gardai are there to protect you, and if you get frisked once in a blue moon, its a whole lot better than being assaulted (for example)

you cannot be serious...

lodgepole

You should have taken the Gardai's numbers. They are legally obliged to allow you full access to their identification so that you can record it for your own use. If you feel you have grounds to complain about their behaviour, then you should complain. I would.

Red Alert

they are allowed search people, whether you like it or not. to be honest i've never had any hassle from them and i've been around the city at all hours of the day and night. maybe /me doesn't look suspicious enough.

][cEMAN**

Originally posted by Civilian_Target
I've been frisked twice by Gardaí in the last 3 years, probably because of my long hair, and I'm not complaining, I have nothing to hide. In fact, last time they frisked me, they even found a bottle cap in my pocket!

*edit*
Never been frisked in Belfast, however

No Gardai in belfast - that's why

But then the prevention of terrorism act gives them the right to pretty much do anything I suppose.

Stark

Remember guards driving up in an unmarked car asking for my name & address before without showing their badges, told them wehre to stick it thinking they were weirdoes and ended up getting roughhandled and having the ear eaten off me and being told I had "an attitude problem" for it. Made me incredibly angry :mad: And of course the obligatory "right well we're just going to search you for drugs and then we'll see if you haven't been doing anything wrong".

Stark

By the way, the business of being searched at concerts and stuff. Is that legal?

entropi

To be honest, there is sweet FA you can do about this, they are the Gardaí , they are the law and they know if you even breath at them wrong they will think you are up to no good.

I myself have been pulled over lots of times by them and i just do the usual yes Garda, No Garda routine as it gets them off my back asap , even though i aint been doin nothin criminal.

It's just blatant over- use of power and i think they should have some sort of Audio Mic that could only be switched off when they are off duty so they won't be all High and Mighty as they usually are.

BTW, they DO have the rights to search/frisk you whenever they want, as was mentioned it's in the Public Order Act , best thing to do is not worry about it as i'm sure it'll happen again.


And Stark , yes they can , it's Policy that they search you if they want to.. never know who's out there or what they are carrying.

^whitey^

I was talking to a gaurd from that point of view pubs/clubs/concerts. I presume you mean by security. It is not legal without the persons prior concent.

qBot

thanks for the response lads, after a nights sleep though; i'm beginning to see the funny side. I ain't raging anymore. Still, i really do think they should have given me a reason. It came completely out of nowhere. Atleast i have a bit of gossip for the lads when i'm in the pub.

IrishMike, ya wouldn't post up the link to where u got all that info would ya.

Brerrabbit

This happenend to me a few years ago. I was around 17 walking to work when an unmarked screamed to a halt in front of me disgorging two of Dublins' finest. they flashed some ID lightning quick and then searched me. I was a little freaked out and bewildered but just went about my business (Dealing crack, shooting people etc.). I told my mates later on and they tore into me (my nickname was -and is- "Smack" cause apparently I always look out of it).

The guards can do what they like when they like, the (draconian?) public order act allows them to strip search the pope if they didn't like his "demeanour".

The "Yes gaurd, No guard" approach is the way to go, even if grovelling like this makes you want to vomit.

ferdi

if the guards tell you that you are coming down to the station or some shiet like that all you have to do is ask two questions:

"am i under arrest?"

then ask:

"am i free to go?"

if u are not under arrest.....

as for frisking, i dont know. if u r carrying anything you shouldnt be, just store it right at your genitals, they arnt exactly going to frisk that area too well.

if this is over stepping the mark i appologise

growler

it's very annoying to have this happen to you ( though not as annoying as having it happen when you are carrying) , there is nothing you can do , if you do give them any back chat they'll whisk you off to the station for a more "thorough" search and give you a hour in a cell if they take a dislike to you. Strange that they singled you out of a group of 3 though.

I know a lot of people shopping in the esso late at night are getting rizlas - so there was, statistically speaking, a reasonable chance you could have been carrying a bit of hash

utter nonsense

Sleipnir

ah maybe you were doing something that looked suspicious but just didn't realise it. If they singled you out for no apparent reason they must have thought they saw something suspicious.
If they were just searching to pass the time they would probably would have searched all three of you.

qBot

Originally posted by ferdi
if the guards tell you that you are coming down to the station or some shiet like that all you have to do is ask two questions:

"am i under arrest?"

then ask:

"am i free to go?"

if u are not under arrest.....

Ya, well thats what they were trying to do i think.Basically trying to make me voluntarily unvoluntarily (without realising i had a choice) give them permission to frisk me. But then again, it does seem now that they were in their right to search me.

Havelock

We used to have this one Gardai who got his kicks out of hassling us when we used hang around in temple bar (4-5 years ago). Really superior attitude, marine drill sargent snapping voice. Anyway, one day while minding my own business (showing a journalist from the Slate around temple bar) this egomanical cop dragged me aside for dressing suspiously (I was wearing a suit, neat hair, polsihed shoes). He said he was going to search me, I asked on what grounds, he said breach of the peace, i said that gave him no right to, he said I had attitude, I recited the cops badge number out loud twice, I took out a small note pad wrote down the number and asked him politely for his name, he tried to take the note pad off me, I repeated my request politey again, he said he didn't have to give it to me. I wrote that down. He called for backup, and said he was going to arrest me and the people I was with unless I let him search me (I wasn't carring anything but 2 of the otehrs where carring stuff). So I complied, he routed, tried to take the note pad again, got another guard to stand watch over me while he searched every nook and cranny of my camera bag. He tasted the ends of a chocolate rapper from my pockets. (The whole time the journalist is snapping pictures and taking notes behind the guards back). The guard being pissed off by finding no id on me, asked me my name, didn't believe me when I told him it (abet I told the full lenght one), he asked I again and offfered to spell it for him. He asked for date of birth, address etc, I recieted them off. he pretended to check on his radio, came back a told me what I told him was wrong. I glared at him, he glared at me, I looked at the journo, who presented his press card to the guard and vouched for me. The guard blanched and walked off. The Slate then published a piss-take story about the kids in temple bar, and didn't mention a ****in' thing about the guard! B*****ds!

But on the plus side the story allows me to post a pic I took about 2 years ago. I would love to get the pic published. The slate wanted the pic, but I was still pissed at them. Gardai on the right!

GuanYin

To be fair, if only he'd taken a look at the pictures on your camera Havelock....

There's a clampdown on that sorta stuff you know?

RossFixxxed

I've been stopped by the Gardai a few times, in the car (I'm a learner) and on the street. The first thing I always say is "hello", very politely. You can see their manner change. If the ask me if I'm carrying anything, or up to anything, I say "I'm heading off to a mate/ the shop / home." I give my name etc if asked, and they usually say something like "alright then, have a good evening" and I say "you too!".

Always been that easy for me, I am UBER polite in these situations. No guarantee that they won't bust your ass anyway, but politenesa and an open face go a long way in these situations. :ninja:
Ross

^whitey^

That photo looks like its from a S & M shoot

qBot

Originally posted by RossFixxxed
I've been stopped by the Gardai a few times, in the car (I'm a learner) and on the street. The first thing I always say is "hello", very politely. You can see their manner change. If the ask me if I'm carrying anything, or up to anything, I say "I'm heading off to a mate/ the shop / home." I give my name etc if asked, and they usually say something like "alright then, have a good evening" and I say "you too!".

Always been that easy for me, I am UBER polite in these situations. No guarantee that they won't bust your ass anyway, but politenesa and an open face go a long way in these situations. :ninja:
Ross

I would have been polite to them if they had been polite to me. But they were trying to intimidate me and one of em, the guy who dealth with me was suffering from a bit of SMS (Small Man Syndrome ), I was a clear half head taller than him. He was arrogant and smart mouthed.


BTW, i think this is the link that IrishMike reference earlier. Fairly frightening what reasons they can use to stop and search you.

Duffman

Hrm.. doesn't sound like they were Gardai to me..

Anyway, they can only stop and search you if they have reasonable grounds for believing that you are either carrying drugs or guilty of an offence under s30 of the Offences Against the State Act. Otherwise the fact is that your constitutional rights are being breached...

Say the did find drugs or something else incriminating, if they can't show that they had reasonable grounds for suspecting you then the evidence will not be admissible at your trial...

qBot

If only i had seen this photo before, id have been trying to keep in the laughter when they were frisking me.:D

Duffman

They also MUST tell you the nature and description of the powers they are invoking by law before they search you.. otherwise it's illegal... w@nkers..

][cEMAN**

Or you could just pretend that you're liking it a bit TOO much. Bend over a bit too far etc, and put a perverted grin on your face. See if he still wants to feel you up

Could backfire though, and you could end up in a very compromising situation

Lemming

This is a great thread to read whilst listening to Rage Against The Machine

Oh, and havelock ... priceless pic
Quality lad ... quality!

Mutz

Section 23 Drug Trafficking Act or Drugs Offences I think. Have a look at that - If they form "form the opinion" they have the right to search you or you car or your learjet

P.s. I've never had any trouble from the Gards - I think they're doin a good job - its just the odd few idiots who give the good ones a bad name.

jank

As regards giving them your name etc, do you have to?
I thought you were in your rights not to and that you dont have to show them any ID to prove who you are. Right of privacy or something! might be wrong here though

seanybiker

Well I dont mind been searched cause I never have anything on me, So I assume this annoys them. any way it only takes a minute so fluck it. normally when your sound with them there sound with you (apart from the time i told one of them to fluck off). I know if I was a Guard I would be going around been a right bastid searching everyone. HA HA

Emboss

the best way to get out these situtations is to devlop a sudden stutter....


m..mm...mmm...mm......y n.....aaaaaaaaammmmmmmmeeee iiiiisssssss


they can't be arsed trying to talk to you.

it's got me off a fair bit so far.

Whats the big deal? You got searched. Its not as if they molested you or anything.

Power to Search

The gardai* have the power to search a person, vehicle, vessel or aircraft without a warrant provided they have reasonable ground for suspicion that a crime is being committed under the Misuse of Drugs Act.


Reasonable Grounds


* "The demeanour of the suspect
* The gait and manner of the suspect
* Any knowledge the officer may have of the suspect's character or background
* Whether the suspect is carrying anything and the nature of what he is carrying
* The mode of his dress, bulges in his clothing and particularly when these factors are considered in the light of all the surrounding circumstances
* The time of the observation
* Any remarks or conversation which he makes to any other person which may be over-heard by an officer
* The street or the area involved
* Information from a third party, who may in given circumstances be known or unknown
* Any connection between that person and any other person whose conduct is reasonably suspect
* The suspect's apparent connection to any overt criminal activity".



Bastards

Bastards? Why? They're there to do a job. Show some respect for an organisation that protects your life, and yet gets constant abuse for it.

Emboss

Originally posted by jank
As regards giving them your name etc, do you have to?
I thought you were in your rights not to and that you dont have to show them any ID to prove who you are. Right of privacy or something! might be wrong here though

name dob and address afaik

^whitey^

Originally posted by jank
As regards giving them your name etc, do you have to?

Yea they have the right to ask name and address and can arrest or fine you (not too sure probably the latter) if you refuse or give false details.

seamus

Originally posted by Duffman
Anyway, they can only stop and search you if they have reasonable grounds for believing that you are either carrying drugs or guilty of an offence under s30 of the Offences Against the State Act. Otherwise the fact is that your constitutional rights are being breached...

Reasonable grounds aren't hard to find. "We saw a bunch of kids in a nearby field, and this guy acted suspiciously when he saw us." Basically any group of kids hanging around is reasonable grounds to suspect that they're doing *something* illegal. And don't say it's not. We've all been teenagers, we've all hung around in groups. There's always something remotely illegal taking place.

I agree with klaz. What's 2 or 3 minutes of your day? These guys have to deal with some unbelievable crap so you can sleep comfortably in your bed and be free to go to the shops in the first place. It's far too fashionable these days to "wail on "the man" dude! YYEEEAAAH!".

:rolleyes:

Duffman

Originally posted by ^whitey^
Yea they have the right to ask name and address and can arrest or fine you (not too sure probably the latter) if you refuse or give false details.

You don't have to answer *any* questions though, nor can they arrest you for "questioning".

Duffman

Originally posted by seamus
Reasonable grounds aren't hard to find. "We saw a bunch of kids in a nearby field, and this guy acted suspiciously when he saw us." Basically any group of kids hanging around is reasonable grounds to suspect that they're doing *something* illegal. And don't say it's not. We've all been teenagers, we've all hung around in groups. There's always something remotely illegal taking place.

Yeah, you're right. The fact that they didn't tell him what they were doing still makes the search illlegal though.