concerned for brother

brody79 · 20-04-2004 3:22am #1

my brotheris in australia for the year.one night was drinking after one of the irish rugby games in sydney a couple of weeks ago,with a few of his friends.They started messing around and he ended up damaging a bmw.In court he was told that he had to pay damages to the tune of 3000aus dollars1(also 12 months probation)the police have his passport details i think,but hes thinking of not paying the claim and just gettting back to ireland cos he has no money and already owes alot on his credit card.He doesnt seem to think its a big deal but im trying to convince him to just pay it off over a year or something.

question:does anybody know what is likely to happen if he bails?,does it only mean he can never come back to austrailia again?,will he have problems leaving the country?

thanks

seamus · 20-04-2004 7:59am

If the police actually have his passport, then he'll have great difficulty leaving the country. Even if he is lucky enough to get on a flight without showing his passport, any stopovers etc would be a source of a headache.

If they don't, he can leave, but there'll probably be a warrant for his arrest, so he'll be arrested and charged again if he returns to Australia.

I don't see what's to stop him coming home and paying off the cash though. AUS$3000 = €1,800. It's not a huge amount to work off.

hedgetrimmer · 20-04-2004 8:18am

This is why people have embassies. The police have his details. If he leaves, he will be traced and eventually either forced to pay that + reparations from ireland or extradited back to Australia for a prison sentence.

I am not saying this to frighten you. I work for the government. This kind of thing happens all the time in embassies, both ways, and the small, traceable people ALWAYS get caught.

Plus his passport will be cancelled.

Sleepy · 20-04-2004 8:50am

The Australian Government will track you down for an unpaid speeding fine so you can bet they'll chase your brother down for AUS$3000.

seamus · 20-04-2004 8:54am

Originally posted by hedgetrimmer
This is why people have embassies. The police have his details. If he leaves, he will be traced and eventually either forced to pay that + reparations from ireland or extradited back to Australia for a prison sentence.

Is the Irish Government in the habit of extraditing its citizens to other countries?
(Serious question)

Zulu · 20-04-2004 8:57am

If he does a legger, he'll be grand.
Extradite back to Oz :rolleyes: gimmie a break. The plane ticket would cost more FFS!

Look, he does a runner, they track him to Ireland, they spend a load of money in legal proceedings, they extradite him back, they put him in prison.... does it even sound REMOTLY realistic. (They can barely do this to terrorists!)

Worst case, they make him pay from Ireland (AUS$3000 = ~€1500), he'll be able to arrange a term payment over a couple of years if he has money troubles. If he dosen't pay, he'll be banned from the country.

...of course, if he was to lose his passport, and have a new one issued in Gaelige, with his name in Irish and a new passport number - he could go where ever he wanted!

Zulu · 20-04-2004 8:59am

Originally posted by Sleepy
The Australian Government will track you down for an unpaid speeding fine so you can bet they'll chase your brother down for AUS$3000.

Doesn't mean you have to pay. A threatning letter is just a letter.

And no, they won't extradite you for something as frivellous as that.

Sleipnir · 20-04-2004 9:00am

Originally posted by seamus
Is the Irish Government in the habit of extraditing its citizens to other countries?
(Serious question)

Not really, and certainly not for a tiny crime like this. Look at those three (ex :rolleyes: ) IRA lads in South America.

Your brother commited a crime in Australia so he must be punished under Australian law.
It will be VERY difficult for him to get back to Ireland without a passport (nearly impossible I'd say which is why they took it off him).
If he goes to the Irish Embassy and says
"I want get home to avoid paying damages for a crime I commited" they'll advise him to stay put and pay it off.
They won't land a helicopter on the embassy to fly him to the airport under diplomatic immunity. More likely, they'll throw him out the door.

Beruthiel · 20-04-2004 9:00am

your brother did damage to someone elses property,
let him go to the embassy and find out what his options are for paying it back.

seamus · 20-04-2004 9:06am

Originally posted by Sleipnir
They won't land a helicopter on the embassy to fly him to the airport under diplomatic immunity. More likely, they'll throw him out the door.

Indeed. A lot of people seem to be under a false impression that your Embassy is the local bunch of lads who'll do their damndest to help you out no matter. In fact, most embassies will tell you that they are there purely to provide advice and emergency travel assistance (such as a passport). They will not give you financial or legal assistance. They will tell you that you're on your own.

Emboss · 20-04-2004 9:10am

Originally posted by seamus
Is the Irish Government in the habit of extraditing its citizens to other countries?
(Serious question)

how can you ask that without smiling!

leonotron · 20-04-2004 9:12am

I think he should pay the damages, why can't the sh1t head own up to what he has done?

davidlenehan1 · 20-04-2004 9:12am

Your brother should do a ned kelly on it. Head into the mountains and shoot anyone that comes near him!

SheroN · 20-04-2004 9:14am

If he makes it back to ireland (which he should have no problem doing so long as they don't have his passport), i can seen nothing coming of it. Even if they do find him what are they going to do once he's back in ireland?

OZ Government: you owe us money, give us the money you owe us *mate*.
Your brother: no.
OZ Government: ok. rack off then.

That said he should really contact the embassy and explain his situation. Tell them he'd be more than willing to sort them out for the cash upon his return home.

Zulu · 20-04-2004 9:16am

Originally posted by Sleipnir
Not really, and certainly not for a tiny crime like this. Look at those three (ex :rolleyes: ) IRA lads in South America.

Your brother commited a crime in Australia so he must be punished under Australian law.
It will be VERY difficult for him to get back to Ireland without a passport (nearly impossible I'd say which is why they took it off him).
If he goes to the Irish Embassy and says
"I want get home to avoid paying damages for a crime I commited" they'll advise him to stay put and pay it off.
They won't land a helicopter on the embassy to fly him to the airport under diplomatic immunity. More likely, they'll throw him out the door.

They have his passport details, not his passport!

Draupnir · 20-04-2004 9:19am

Like Shero said, go to the embassy, tell them he wants to go home and try to sort a way out of coming home and paying it off.

Would have to be a BMW he damaged! Couldnt be a filthy jacked up pickup.

Emboss · 20-04-2004 9:20am

i was in a simmilar situation

i just came home and forgot about it.

ignorance is bliss

Draupnir · 20-04-2004 9:20am

And tell him to look out for Prime Ministers wearing a hugely oversized boot.

Sleipnir · 20-04-2004 9:23am

Originally posted by Zulu
They have his passport details, not his passport!

ah ha! RUN!

Beruthiel · 20-04-2004 9:24am

davidlenehan1
Sleipnir

read the forum CHARTER
B

leonotron · 20-04-2004 9:31am

Originally posted by Draupnir
Like Shero said, go to the embassy, tell them he wants to go home and try to sort a way out of coming home and paying it off.

Would have to be a BMW he damaged! Couldnt be a filthy jacked up pickup.

The BMW was probably more appealing, idiots rather pull merc signs off a car then Mazda badges

bucks73 · 20-04-2004 9:34am

Over ten years ago a friend of mine and two other guys were arrested after causing damage to a car in Cape Cod. They were in court the morning after the incident and the Judge asked them surrender their passports. All three said the passports were back in their house so the Judge let them go on their own to pick them up and come back to the courthouse that afternoon.

Needless to say all three were on that evenings flight back to Shannon from Boston. He cant go back to Massachussets again until the statute of limitations is up whenever that is.

If your brother has his passport and wants to leave tell him to leave. Once he is back in Ireland there isnt a whole lot they can do. Otherwise just stay and pay it off.

BuffyBot · 20-04-2004 9:43am

I really can't beleive that people are saying "run off".

At the end of the day, he's done damage and should be man enough to be responsible for the consequences of his actions.

Beruthiel · 20-04-2004 9:47am

Originally posted by BuffyBot
I really can't beleive that people are saying "run off"

I can't either, if you do damage to someone's property, then you should pay to have it fixed.
where are peoples morals and principles these days?

seamus · 20-04-2004 9:51am

Originally posted by BuffyBot
I really can't beleive that people are saying "run off".

At the end of the day, he's done damage and should be man enough to be responsible for the consequences of his actions.

Agreed. Imagine if some Australian guy came over here, damaged any of these people's cars and then legged it? Would they think it's fair game then?

Whether he comes home or not, he should repay the debt. Otherwise he's nothing but a scumbag and deserves to extradited, even though he wouldn't be.

Emboss · 20-04-2004 9:54am

Originally posted by Beruthiel
I can't either, if you do damage to someone's property, then you should pay to have it fixed.
where are peoples morals and principles these days?

Probably up their own arses, with every other bmw driver's

leonotron · 20-04-2004 9:58am

Just another story you here about Irish away from home, and we wonder why we have a bad name abroad

Emboss · 20-04-2004 9:59am

Originally posted by BuffyBot
I really can't beleive that people are saying "run off".

At the end of the day, he's done damage and should be man enough to be responsible for the consequences of his actions.

it's not about running off and not paying....

first things first get home.

Then he can work out how he's going to pay the money back.

Emboss · 20-04-2004 9:59am

Originally posted by leonotron
Just another story you here about Irish away from home, and we wonder why we have a bad name abroad

we do?

leonotron · 20-04-2004 10:00am

Originally posted by Emboss
we do?

Thats sarcasm right?

SheroN · 20-04-2004 10:01am

Just another story you here about Irish away from home, and we wonder why we have a bad name abroad

any country i've been to...they love the irish....

Lainey · 20-04-2004 10:01am

i think he should pay for the damage he has done to the car.. why would anyone say run off.???. who ends up paying for the damage, the owner.??? who did nothing.. own up to the responsibility for god sake.. whats to stop everyone whos not irish getting drunk tonight and trashing my car or one of your cars, then going home and leaving you with either a big bill for repairs or lose no claims bonus.. thats just so crappy..

fair enough, we all do stupid things when drunk.. not a big deal.. just pay the damage and then forget it.. or if he has to come home, then pay it off asap..

as for the government tracking him down, if it was my car i'd be more inclined to track him down

Beruthiel · 20-04-2004 10:01am

Originally posted by Emboss
Probably up their own arses, with every other bmw driver's

I disagree with you emboss, if you consider it ok to lower your standards to what you ‘think’ someone else’s is, then you are no better than them.
not everyone who drives a bmw is an as5hole and some people work all their lives for something like this, perhaps have even thought that some day maybe they would treat themselves to a nice car only to have this happen to them.
put yourself in their shoes and tell me then how you would feel if it had happened to you

Emboss · 20-04-2004 10:04am

Originally posted by Beruthiel
I disagree with you emboss, if you consider it ok to lower your standards to what you ‘think’ someone else’s is, then you are no better than them.
not everyone who drives a bmw is an as5hole and some people work all their lives for something like this, perhaps have even thought that some day maybe they would treat themselves to a nice car only to have this happen to them.
put yourself in their shoes and tell me then how you would feel if it had happened to you

ahem, i was joking....

Emboss · 20-04-2004 10:05am

Originally posted by leonotron
Thats sarcasm right?

No, anywhere i've been in the world no one has had a problem with the irish..in fact they seemed to be obsessed with the irish.

alienhead · 20-04-2004 10:05am

he should just pay for the dammage he's done.

Beruthiel · 20-04-2004 10:05am

Originally posted by Emboss
ahem, i was joking....

then perhaps you should read the CHARTER?

Emboss · 20-04-2004 10:08am

Originally posted by Beruthiel
then perhaps you should read the CHARTER?

update it! "no slagging bmw drivers"

Sleipnir · 20-04-2004 10:15am

No Humour allowed.

Anyway, back OT. He really can't bail out and leave this guy with a bent-up BMW. How would you feel if some skanger did that to you?
He did a stupid, stupid thing and should just pay up. I'm not saying that thing will follow you but it just might.
What if, in twenty years he has to go on a business trip with his boss to Oz and end's up in the back of a squad car?
Tell him not to be so damned irresponsible.

Draupnir · 20-04-2004 10:20am

Cant believe nobody commented on my booting post. That kind of material is top drawer.

leonotron · 20-04-2004 10:31am

Originally posted by Emboss
No, anywhere i've been in the world no one has had a problem with the irish..in fact they seemed to be obsessed with the irish.

We are also know as the "Drunken Irish" and the "Filthy Irish", not a label I would be proud of.
A bit off topic but does any one remember a show on RTE a couple of years ago where it followed Irish on holidays in Aus and it showed a bunch of ignorant rugby fans watching a match in a pub, two of them proceeded to puke all over the floor of the pub then when asked to leave they refused until they were given more drink. Just the image I like to see portrayed of the irish abroad, warms the heart

SheroN · 20-04-2004 10:32am

keep it on topic....it's turning into a humanities'esq thread.

Zulu · 20-04-2004 11:37am

Originally posted by BuffyBot
I really can't beleive that people are saying "run off".

At the end of the day, he's done damage and should be man enough to be responsible for the consequences of his actions.

oh Boo Hoo! Gimmie a break.

Run buddy run, the insurance will cover it.

- It's a victimless crime!

leonotron · 20-04-2004 11:48am

Originally posted by Zulu
oh Boo Hoo! Gimmie a break.

Run buddy run, the insurance will cover it.

- It's a victimless crime!

It is not a victimless crime, the guy will lose his No Claims Bonus meaning he will have to pay in the long run. All because of some Irish tosser.

Beruthiel · 20-04-2004 11:51am

zulu
read the CHARTER
B

Zulu · 20-04-2004 11:58am

Originally posted by Beruthiel
zulu
read the CHARTER
B

the CHARTER, always with the bloody CHARTER!

Red Alert · 20-04-2004 2:50pm

if he wants to get out of there now, the best thing would probably be for you (and your family/his mates whatever) to lend him enough to pay the fine and then get outta there.

I don't think running off's very advisable, even if he has his passport. Post september 11th they'll cancel it or refuse it in many places simply as a result of this.

Alternatively he should pay the fine in installments and be done with it.

hedgetrimmer · 20-04-2004 3:01pm

Originally posted by seamus
Is the Irish Government in the habit of extraditing its citizens to other countries?
(Serious question)

In reply to both you and Zulu, they can do. It depends on how much fuss is kicked up. Though it is unlikely, it can and has happened. Most of the time, citizens go back for a court case, but more often that not, the fine is paid from by home.

Zulu - he will not be safe if he does a legger. Beleive me, there is a ton of paper work and past incidents to support the fact that such tarces do and have occured and the perpertator has had to pay.

Zulu · 20-04-2004 3:43pm

Originally posted by hedgetrimmer
In reply to both you and Zulu, they can do. It depends on how much fuss is kicked up. Though it is unlikely, it can and has happened. Most of the time, citizens go back for a court case, but more often that not, the fine is paid from by home.

Zulu - he will not be safe if he does a legger. Beleive me, there is a ton of paper work and past incidents to support the fact that such tarces do and have occured and the perpertator has had to pay.

Seriously - he'll be grand, so long as he dosen't want to visit Oz again anytime soon.
It's a small amount of damage, not a murder case.

kopijack · 20-04-2004 3:48pm

Definetely Get him to go to the Embassy and speak to the Consular officer and explain the situation...

If he has financial difficulty in returning to Ireland they will assist him in getting his flights for direct return to Ireland, if the Australian Authorities have not reported to the Irish Embassy that they have his passport then he just needs to go to the Irish embassy and they will give him a replacement, then he can just hop himself onto a plane....

Best thing to do is work out an arrangement with the courts to which he can pay back the damage fees.

Darren · 20-04-2004 9:32pm

It's for reasons like this that I always take 2 passports abroad. You never know when a sharp exit may be required.

When I was 17 a few of us went to Kavos in Corfu. We were all a bit gullibe and the hotel said to put our passports in the hotel safe. A chair got broken in our room and they wouldn't give us our passports back until we had paid about £70 for this chair. Lesson learnt!!!

Oh 2 passports, Born in London, Irish parents. 1 British Passport and 1 Irish Passport.

concerned for brother

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