First Overclock: 9800Pro (not quite to XT?)

Adeptus Titanicus

After seeing JoePCs disgustingly drool-inducing overclock here I thought it about time I ventured into the world of overclocking after years of PC ownership.

First on the list was the 9800Pro, so I duly downloaded the ATITool as mentioned here and downloadable from this site and started gauging what my max OC was.

I managed to get it up to 414/365 (core/mem) from a stock speed of 378/337 on the stock heatsink with the noisy/whiney fan with seemingly perfect stability. How does this rate against other OCs on this chipset? I've read about people OCing to XT levels. Is this just on the core or mem too?

3DMark2001 scores went from 17408 to 17830
3DMark2003 scores went from 5787 to 6200

So, could I get a higher stable overclock if I "enhanced" the heatsink? Was thinking of the Arctic VGA Silencer.

Any stories around this combination?

Tomorrow I think I'll start on the CPU and Memory...

Col_Loki

Well your very nicely setup for overclocking, good cooling, Pc3700 Ram, good solid PSU, The intel "C" chip, decent motherboard..... nice.

The Artic Cooler should increase your overclock on the graphics card without a doubt. Have heard some people claiming up to 40mhz extra on the core..... which is nice. Some places have crazy prices for them, think jes computers and hitide are the cheapest. Its a damm big cooler by the way and will take up the PCI slot next to the AGP one.

You will see more of an improvement in 3dmark01 by overclocking the CPU, and more in '03 by overclocking the GFX card......... but you already knew that rite!!

Woden

cpu would have been my first stop for overclocking i have to say and yours should overclock nicely, i'm more weary of overclocking my graphics card mainly as i can't monitor its temp i think.

your 3dmark01 score is of interest to me as i only saw a small increase like that for my overclock to an XT, and again like yourself saw a significant effect on 3dmark03

Adeptus Titanicus

Originally posted by COL_LOKI
You will see more of an improvement in 3dmark01 by overclocking the CPU, and more in '03 by overclocking the GFX card......... but you already knew that rite!!

Yeah, I did a few iterations so I could see popping up the GFX only made a real difference to 2003. It's interesting stuff.

HiTide do the Arctic for 17 Euro, not too bad. I had been considering the Zalman mammoth cooler (ZM80C), but it looks as if the Arctic gives better performance (good bit cheaper too). 40MHz would be quite a jump based on a simple upgrade of a cooler.

I'm half afraid to begin ramping up the CPU!

Sir Random

I got a 9800 Pro today, and I'm putting an Arctic cooler on it tomorrow.
I had it up to 420/375 with the stock cooler, I'll see how it does with the AC.
I think it's an R360 and if so, I'll flash it to XT BIOS too.

Adeptus Titanicus

Originally posted by Dataisgod
cpu would have been my first stop for overclocking i have to say and yours should overclock nicely, i'm more weary of overclocking my graphics card mainly as i can't monitor its temp i think.

your 3dmark01 score is of interest to me as i only saw a small increase like that for my overclock to an XT, and again like yourself saw a significant effect on 3dmark03

Yeah, I would have been more worried about the temps of the GFX, but I have stuck a probe into the heatsink from a coolermaster cooldrive, so I could keep an eye on it. It got to about 43 degrees while running 3d2003. Actually, earlier today I was getting curious as the fan on the GFX is pretty annoying (unless there's music playing), so I disconnected the fan to see how quiet it would be if I went passive. The damn thing shot up to uver 50 degrees very quickly with no load! Needless to say I reattached the fan pretty quickly..

Can you tell me what speeds you got your Pro up to?

I'll keep you posted on how the 2001 scores fare after I play with the CPU.

Thanks!

Col_Loki

The artic cooler is definetly the cooler of choice for both performance and silence (nice little switch on it to change).

good review of the Zalman, TT, Artic Cooler's ..... http://www.madshrimps.be/?action=getarticle&number=8&artpage=581&articID=149 .

I got the artic cooler mainly for silence and a little overclocking and im very happy so far. Gets a recomendation from me anyway!!

Adeptus Titanicus

Originally posted by Sir Random
I got a 9800 Pro today, and I'm putting an Arctic cooler on it tomorrow.
I had it up to 420/375 with the stock cooler, I'll see how it does with the AC.
I think it's an R360 and if so, I'll flash it to XT BIOS too.

Ah, so you can flash the BIOS to XT if it's a 360? Don't know much about this. Are there other "models" in the 9800Pro range that can't be flashed up to XT? How will flashing it affect the overclockability of the pro?

Lots of questions eh?

neokenzo

From what I read on rage3d's forum, the Artic cooler doesnt give much of a boost. Most ppl there use one of the heat fans from Athlon to really give it a boost if I am not mistaken. Of course, you must have thos modded if you want to use it. I think most ppl think Artic cooler is suppose to give a boost but in reality its mainly for the quietness while cooling you ghx card. I have the artic on my card and I can only go up to 425Mhz on the core. Any more than that, I can see artifacts. I have to lowered it down a bit for certain games. It will probably give some boost but I just dont think it will give you the boost that you want.

I could be wrong but thats my 2 cents anyway

neokenzo

Originally posted by Adeptus
Ah, so you can flash the BIOS to XT if it's a 360? Don't know much about this. Are there other "models" in the 9800Pro range that can't be flashed up to XT? How will flashing it affect the overclockability of the pro?

Lots of questions eh?

I think its much safer if you have the R360 core as it is the same as whats on the XT. Most of the 9800pro can be flashed to XT but it mainly depends what kind of ram your card has. From my understanding, flashing to XT will give you a higher core and memory at default. However, if you can o'c your card safely, most ppl would discourage flashing it to XT as there have been numerous problems and failures.

Woden

http://service.futuremark.com/compare?2k3=2078280

this is as high as i went, 452/392 i'd did bother fine tuning it though just lashed up it in increments of 12mhz i think or whatever the omega drivers oveclocking tool default increment is

mines a powercolour 9800 with samsung memory i think

data

Col_Loki

Yea i think 40mhz is wishing for too much, the guy who it worked for was on the overclocking forums (US) and had a 9700pro with the Artic on normal mode, went from 375mhz to 415mhz which is impressive. Havent heard many other figures (thus the reason i posted that one) just that people seem impressed with it.

I found that i got roughly 15-20mhz, it also depends alot on your case airflow. I was pretty happy as it got me over 17k and 5.5k......... dont play enough games at the min to warent upgrading as this is fine!! Next majour upgrade will be end of 2004/ start 2005 id say.

this is as high as i went, 452/392

PS Damm thats some overclock with the stock cooler!! Pop an artic on there and keep it nice and cool and enjoy!! That Ram is good isint it

Adeptus Titanicus

Originally posted by neokenzo
I could be wrong but thats my 2 cents anyway

Appreciate the comments. Actually I've been following your overclocking adventures and was wondering how you found the Arctic.

To be honest, I probably don't need too much of a boost. At the moment I'm very interested in the quitness factor, but would like to get whatever overclock I can within the limits of set by the quieter coolers. It just appeared that the Arctic did better than the Zalman, butr I'm open to advice on this. Have read the reviews at MadShrimps and kinda based my decision on that.

Woden

Originally posted by COL_LOKI


PS Damm thats some overclock with the stock cooler!! Pop an artic on there and keep it nice and cool and enjoy!! That Ram is good isint it

aye some decent ram on that powercolour it seems, i'd be scared of one of those arctics trying to put one on, just like the thermalright heatsinks , i don't run the radeon overclocked though that was just for benchmarking

Adeptus Titanicus

Originally posted by Dataisgod
452/392 i'd did bother fine tuning it though

Tasty! Hmmm, this ATITool app that I have been using reports artifacts once I get to 420/386, but it could be erring on the side of caution

Did you do anything to voltages on the card?

Woden

nope didn't touch it, didn't flash the bios or anything fancy, didn't increase the agp voltage in the bios either,

try the omega drivers, they have the built in oveclocking thingy and an artifact tester which reassuringly tell ya to overclock more when it doesn't find artifacts

http://www.omegacorner.com/

Adeptus Titanicus

/me hits download and gets another beer

Thanks!

EDIT:
Just noticed, will also celebrate becoming a crazy poster...

Woden

no problem, bed time for me now

theres also an driver cleaner uninstaller in there which can be handy, not sure if it clears out old catalysts or old omega's but take a look. i had a slight issue with the rad linker with the version of the omega's that i had (rad linker is the overclocker tool) so i ended up unstalling it, but ya should be fine, the guy updates them frequently enough i think based on the latest versions of the ati cats, they may have some optimisations included on them as well iirc.

lets know how you get on

data

edit: he's updated them to cat 4.4 based ones already cool

neokenzo

I really wish the 9800 pro's have a thermal sensors on them. It would sure help a lot. I really want to try pushing it more but I'm afraid it will get too hot and there's no way of really knowing.

I guess overclocking the ghx card is basically like any other hardware you overclock. It depends highly on what other hardware you have. I've seen others pushing their card to 460-470Mhz on core and they claim that is stable. I cant seem to push futher than 426 before artifacts start kicking in. Although they may have it modded.

I read once that this guy had to lowered down his core speed to give him a higher 3D mark but his core was something like 480 or so originally and had to lower it down to 10-20Mhz. I guess there's a maximum you can really push the core level.

neokenzo

Originally posted by Dataisgod
try the omega drivers, they have the built in oveclocking thingy and an artifact tester which reassuringly tell ya to overclock more when it doesn't find artifacts

http://www.omegacorner.com/

Funny thing was when I tried the omega drivers for overclocking it keep asking to push higher when it didnt find any artifacts. I think I pushed it to 440Mhz and still no artifacts. Which I found wierd. So I tried with ATItool and immediately there was artifacts. I guess it depends which program you are more comfortable with but even with my current core speed, I can see some artifact on certain games. But then again, I have all my games on the highest resolutions.

Woden

sure and it depends on how you lucky you get with the individual piece for example i can't really do much more with my chip, so like cpu's you can get lucky with the gfx card core you get and the memory etc.

some power colour cards came with better rated memory then others can't recall the exact figures off hand. also i mentioned the samsung memory as i think loki mentioned once that was a good sign, others i think may have had hynix memory or something, like most overclocking luck of the draw, and yes i am going to bed now

data

Adeptus Titanicus

neo: Yeah, I can't get beyond 414/364 without ATITool finding artifacts. I'll install the Omega drivers now and see what happens. I'll pop up something here a little later.

Data: I think it's Samsung memory in the Sapphire too.

Adeptus Titanicus

OK, did a quick test.

Installed the Omega drivers no prob, (apart from ZoneAlarm popping up an alert about a Suf60Runtime (irsetup.exe) that was trying to make a connection out)

I just went for it an popped it up to 418/364 and ran the hardcore artefact tester. Didn't find any so I ran 3DMark2003. It threw up speckled artefacts in the MotherNature test all over the water, in the second trolls scene and in the pixel shader test. Got a score of 6263 though, but not much better than the 409/359 setting.

It does appear that the Artefact tester that comes with the Omega drivers runs DirectX 7 based tests, so maybe it isn't that representative? I'll leave it where I know it is stable for now and will retry if/when I get the Arctic cooler. Then again, I may just try a few more combinations..

Sir Random

Well, I couldn't sleep so I stuck on the VGA cooler and flashed to XT BIOS.
The cooler gave me an extra 12Mhz on the core according to ATI Tool. The XT BIOS flash gave a boost of ~400 marks in 3DMk03 (6850 stock). I got 6989 at 420/380 with no sparklies, so I should get 7k easy enough . I need the 340 patch first, so I can upload scores to the orb.

I'd definitely recommend the vga cooler. Easy to fit, quiet, good performance and very cheap


EDIT:
I got the 340 patch, 7067 3DMarks at 422/380
http://service.futuremark.com/compare?2k3=2356182

Adeptus Titanicus

Nice! :cool:

Well, that's it then, I'll be placing an order for a cooler to HiTide v. soon. Just gotta think of more stuff to get to make it worthwhile..

Did you get the Sapphire 9800Pro? What BIOS did you end up using? So did the XT BIOS gave you a boost without overclocking it (I mean overclocking it from the set XT stock speeds)?

Does the Arctic cooler take care of the RAM chips as well? I was wondering if you stuck little heatsinks on the RAM chips would it give an additional edge...

Bet you weren't expecting the Spanish Inquisition!

Sir Random

It's an ATI brand 9800 Pro from OcUK (R360 Core + sammy ram)
I used a 9800XT 128Mb samsung ram BIOS
The XT flash gave me an extra 400 Marks in 3DMk03 (at same clock speeds)

The Arctic cooler doesn't include ram sinks. I'm gonna Dremel some old cpu ram sinks and make my own. They should add ~10Mhz to the ram o/c

Here's a zip with all files and instructions included:
http://www.handspun.utvinternet.com/daniel/biosflsh.zip

N.B., That zip contains the 9800XT 128Mb Samsung BIOS. If your card has different ram, you'll need a different BIOS.
Make sure the core is an XT before flashing (R360).

Adeptus Titanicus

That's great! Thanks a million for the package, it was very kind of you. The Sapphire has Samsung RAM also (afaik) so that's perfect. What I don't know for sure is whether the core is a 360. Is there an easy way to tell without actually taking the heatsink off?

Woden

does the r360 core mean its really an XT with just 128mb instead of a standard r350 9800 pro kinda like what cpu manufactuers do due to demand for lower spec chips?

Sir Random

Adeptus,
There's no way of checking the core without taking off the hsf. It's very easy, just pull out the two locking pins and then squeeze the prongs and they'll pop through the holes. Then gently twist and lever off the hsf (the shim will protect the core). I made a photo diary of the whole process if you need help with anything in particular.
Be careful removing the fan power connector. I used a Stanley blade to free the 2 barbs that hold it in, before attempting to pull out the connector (patience needs no force, too many boards are killed by careless screwdrivers).

Dataisgod,
It's an XT core with 128Mb ram and 9800Pro BIOS. ATI started selling off the XTs as Pros about 2 months ago (256Mb ver). The HL2 delay meant they had a huge surplus of R360s with little demand. They have now apparently flooded the market with these 128Mb cards (OcUK sold out 500 in under 2 days). Whether they were trying to grab potential NV40 customers (like me) or just clearing out surplus stock, it was the deal of the decade (£130 for 9800XT )

silverside

Sir Random,

can I ask something different?

Is the GPU lower than the shim? I.e. would you have to remove the shim if placing a flat heatsink on it? I am thinking of replacing the fan but don't want to do any damage to the gpu.

Thanks

Sir Random

Mine was almost exactly the same height, so I left the shim on. The Arctic has a flat base which sits on the shim.

Btw, the Arctic base has noticable machine ridges. Ideally it should be lapped, but I was too tired to bother. I gave it a fine coating of rubbed-in AS3 before applying.

Unexpected

There's no way of checking the core without taking off the hsf. It's very easy, just pull out the two locking pins and then squeeze the prongs and they'll pop through the holes. Then gently twist and lever off the hsf (the shim will protect the core). I made a photo diary of the whole process if you need help with anything in particular.

Gonna be doing this when my zalman heatsink and fan comes. Just to see if I am on the right wavelength, when it heatsink and fan comes off, will there not be thermal paste or whatever covering the core of the chip making it unreadable menaing you can not see if it is a r360 core or not or do you just wipe off the paste and put on new stuff when ur done?

if you put the whole diary online I will send you 5 euro!

Sir Random

I'll post pics when my g/f has them uploaded (she's at it now)

Yeah, the core is covered in gunk but I wouldn't dream of trying to re-use it. I always apply fresh AS3/AS5 whenever I install/replace any hs.

Unexpected

Is AS3/AS5 just normal thermal paste like the stuff you would put on the cpu ye?

I'll post pics when my g/f has them uploaded (she's at it now)

i think I am speaking for everyone when i say: Mucho gracias!

silverside

Yeah thanks for all the info. What did you use to clean off the old paste?

I'll be wanting to know what you had for breakfast next

Adeptus Titanicus

K, checked the RAM, will leave the HS untill I get the Arctic.

While I was looking at it I realised I could slip a temp probe in under the heatsink, presumably between the HS and the shim, so I could get more accurate temp readings. It's currently reading 52 degrees. Seems kinda hot considering I have it running at stock speed (but I have nothing to compare that against). Running 3DMark03 it got up to 63.5 degrees. I upped it to 414/365 and ran 3DM2003 and it went up to 65 (set off the aerogate alarm ) so not too much hotter at that for an extra 413 marks :dunno:

Edit:
FYI: Isopropyl Alcohol is pretty good for removing gunk. Got a bottle from a chemist.

So what did you have for breakfast Sir Random:

Sir Random

Originally posted by silverside
Yeah thanks for all the info. What did you use to clean off the old paste?

I'll be wanting to know what you had for breakfast next

I use Isopropyl Alcohol, available from chemists.
http://www.handspun.utvinternet.com/daniel/051203_05s.jpg

Fitting the VGA Cooler:

#1, Disconnect power connector:
http://www.handspun.utvinternet.com/daniel/100404_02d.jpg

#2, Remove the HSF locking pins:
http://www.handspun.utvinternet.com/daniel/100404_01d.jpg

#3, Squeeze the prongs so they pop through the holes:
http://www.handspun.utvinternet.com/daniel/2110d_02.jpg

#4, Remove HSF:
http://www.handspun.utvinternet.com/daniel/100404_03d.jpg

#5, Clean the core:
http://www.handspun.utvinternet.com/daniel/100404_04d.jpg

#6, Rub some AS3 into the base (optional) and use matchsticks to line up the card:
http://www.handspun.utvinternet.com/daniel/100404_06d.jpg

#7, Put some AS3 on the core and attach the card, tightening the 2 screws alternatively. Finished!
http://www.handspun.utvinternet.com/daniel/100404_07d.jpg

Adeptus Titanicus

Fair play to ya. That's really great. The matchsticks are a good idea too!

Edit:
Just wondering, does your card have a temp probe built in? i.e., was it an XTunderclocked and flashed down to a Pro. If it did, the XT drivers would allow you to use the temp monitor. I came accross the attached pic that apparently shows the diode that does this.

Crap, can't attach img when editing. See next post...

Adeptus Titanicus

Here

Sir Random

Forgot to mention, you MUST attach the Arctic power connector to the card BEFORE attaching the HS. It's impossible to do this afterwards (as suggested in the official instructions :rolleyes: )

EDIT: There's no sensor on this board so the autoclock feature doesn't work.

neokenzo

Just my 2 cents.

Firstly, ATItools read my card as R350. I havent checked it for myself because I dont have the paste to reseal the heatsink again. So I cant verify how accurate ATItool readings are. Maybe one of you could check whether ATITool is showing you the right core.
Some Saphire does come with the Hynix ram. I think mine is Hynix because when I opened to check my card, I cant find anywhere where it says Samsung.
When I installed my Artic cooler, I just used a tissue to clean the gunk away. I also installed the fan first before putting the power connector. But I guess its up to yourself. Whichever your comfortable with.

Gyck

I've put an Arctic Cooler on my powercolor 9800 pro (from Hitide) and it's excellent. Way quieter than the original crappy fan/heatsink combo. I've not really stressed it too hard, I'm using the Omega 4.2 drivers but haven't run it up past 412/344.

ozmo

Originally posted by Gyck
I've put an Arctic Cooler on my powercolor 9800 pro (from Hitide) and it's excellent.

PC World Blanch Selling Artic Cooler for 14.99

And the diode thats missing... - do you have any more details - I have access to a surface mount lab and a friend there could populate the missing pieces if thats all it needs?

Sir Random

Originally posted by neokenzo
Just my 2 cents.

Firstly, ATItools read my card as R350. I havent checked it for myself because I dont have the paste to reseal the heatsink again. So I cant verify how accurate ATItool readings are. Maybe one of you could check whether ATITool is showing you the right core.
Some Saphire does come with the Hynix ram. I think mine is Hynix because when I opened to check my card, I cant find anywhere where it says Samsung.
When I installed my Artic cooler, I just used a tissue to clean the gunk away. I also installed the fan first before putting the power connector. But I guess its up to yourself. Whichever your comfortable with.

ATI Tool reads from the BIOS so it will say R350 for a 9800 Pro BIOS (mine did too).
There are lots of different XT BIOS's available, some for Hynix ram too.
On the ATI cards, it's impossible to fit the power connector after fitting the cooler (it's in the middle of the card, not at the edge like Sapphire)

ozmo, the PCB isn't designed to cater for the temp diode but thanks anyway.

Adeptus Titanicus

Hmmm... Might head to PC World tomorrow. Not a bad price and I'd avoid waiting for delivery. I'm hooked now. Have the CPU at 3.5GHz, 9800Pro at 414/365 and got the following

test: stock/now
2001: 17400/20058
2003: 5787/6380

I added an extra fan to the front, lower down and the temp of the GFX didn't go above 61. Looking forward to seeing how the Arctic does, and hopefully flashing the Pro.

Think it's time for sleep though....

neokenzo

While we are on the topic of overclocking graphics cards, what would be the acceptable temp for the card?

Adeptus Titanicus

I've been googling for that but can;t seem to find anything definitive. Mine idles at 50C. Was popping up to 66 under load until I repositioned some fans so it loads at 61 now.

Thought I'd get that Arctic in Blanch today, but don't think they were open (they didn't answer the phone if they were), so I'm really curious to see how much that helps out.

BabyEater

As far as I can remember my 9800 was at 36C water cooled and about 44C stock cooled with the side of the case open.

Adeptus Titanicus

Just wondering, is that loaded or idle?

BabyEater

That was an overclocked 9800non pro looping 3dMark that was the the highest reading I got during the loop.

Sir Random

I have a Lian-Li sensor on the back of my card and it's idling at ~43c and load ~52c, so I'd imagine it's +50~60c at the core. Temps were about 5c hotter with the stock cooler.

Most guys in this thread are in the mid 60s playing Far Cry:
http://forums.overclockers.co.uk/showthread.php?s=&threadid=17207819

Apparently, anything under 70c is normal.