Matrix Revolutions????

JP Mulvano

Think im gonna open up a whole can of worms here but just wanted to find out people's opinions on what the heck the end of the Trilogy is all about, as I just got it on DVD and still can't figure out a satisfying explaination after the 4th time. (feels like im watching Memento all over again)


Right Zion and all the real world stuff is pretty straight forward. But Neo and Agent Smith, whats the deal here they seem to be leaning tomwards the whole Ying/Yang thing. (BTW have you seen the oracle wears Ying/Yang earings the whole way thur the 3rd movie).

Just wanted to see does anyone else agree that SPOILER:

Neo and Agent smith are each one half of the same thing, IE day and night, and thus by Agent Smith destroying Neo he destroys himself. Or is it simply the machines where able to destroy Agent smith once he became Neo and thats why he exploded or turned into light[spolier]

And if so is it the same deal with The Oracle and the Architect ie also Ying and Yang.

Oh yeah and whats the deal with the light thing and is Neo supposed to be human or a product of the machine world?

Damn this movie confused me more than it did satisfy me? is thata good or bad thing? hmmmmmmmm

ixoy

It's a bad thing. The movie is anyway. Your theories are pretty much spot on regarding what people thought at the time. Do a search on Boards for some of the threads that were around on boards upon its release. There were some complex explanations but either way, the general conclusion was the Wachowskis deserved a smack across the gob for the way it all ended.

aidan_walsh

The Matrix 101 is one of the best fan sites I've come across for explaining what the authors reckon is the deal. They have pretty in-depth conclusions, and, if you are so inclined, you can take a look at my Revolutions theory on the site as well. Its the first one on the page.

Oh, by the way, the story isn't actually finished. Most people make the incorrect assumption that The Matrix is a movie trilogy, when in fact it is a story told across a numbre of media (movie, comic, video games). The intention is to continue the storyline in The Matrix Online, which is set after the end of Revolutions. I can't help but find it ironic that to find out once and for all how the war against the machines in a virtual envoirnment ends, you have to immerse yourself in a virtual envoirnment...

JP Mulvano

thanks for the info. Spend the afternoon browsing thru that lot.

Rabies

If you do a search on the film forum for matrix revolutions you will find one or two large threads discussing it all

lukeUCD

ah tis true was a confusing confusing film!

TCamen

My brother was watching it on DVD today. Brought back all the awful memories of being sat in UGC @ 2pm opening day-- yes I was suckered in for the whole worldwide release thing. The movie stinks! Really didn't enjoy it at all, and certainly didn't care enough to try & rationalise it by the end :rolleyes:
It was overlong & crammed with awful philosophical drivel. Did it even REALLY have a point? :dunno:

UnrealQueen

So did Neo die at the end and where did the machines bring off to?

User45701

I thought it was quite good i saw it the day it came out in UGC aswell.
Matrix 1 and kill bill 1 are my 2 faverate movies ever.

koneko

It was awful. I gave Reloaded the benefit of the doubt and it had its moments but to be honest Revolutions was just awful. Despite the fact I own the other two and my brain isn't going to function properly if I don't complete the set (I'm anal that way), I'm making a stand by not forking out any money for this turd.

AngelofFire

am i the only person who thought that this movie was absolutely fantastic. the action scenes were unlike anything i had ever seen.

JP Mulvano

Thank you someone finally says it.

If you take this movei for a action movie and forget the religious/Life meaning etc etc tones then it is a f-ing great movie. look at it this way you have:

1. Huge robots manned by people and AI - simply put COOL

2. **** loads of explosions - which are always good

3. Lots of PVC and rubber - ahhh Monica belluci who knew you had it in you (or almost out of you)

4. GUNS - "Guns lots of guns"

5. Great fight scenes

6. People who fly - like superman and hes always good

7. Slow mo face punching - whcih lets face it theres a severe lack of in modern cinema


All of the above add up to a good auld action movie with unfortunately some love scences and incomprehensible symbolism and hidden meanings.

Karl Hungus

Originally posted by AngelofFire
the action scenes were unlike anything i had ever seen.

Not seen much then, have you?

The film was Dragon Ball Z on an ego trip, and nothing more.

Christ, it must've been the worst movie I've seen since Commando, and that's saying a lot. Felt like I was being constantly hit in the back of the head with a book of "Hollywood's Greatest Cliche's" while watching it.

Giblet

Originally posted by Karl Hungus

Christ, it must've been the worst movie I've seen since Commando

I've let your little elitist film criticisms slide in the past, but no, not this time....



HOW DARE YOU!



"Let off some steam....Bennet"

Karl Hungus

Originally posted by Giblet
I've let your little elitist film criticisms slide in the past, but no, not this time....



HOW DARE YOU!



"Let off some steam....Bennet"

Actually, you're right Giblet...

I'm being a bit harsh lumping Commando with Revolutions, when I'd probably love to watch it again while drunk, and giggle at all those great one-liners.

"Don't disturb my friend, he's dead tired."

D

I'm sorry but Commando is single-handedly responible for some of the greatest lines in any films ever. I mean the sceen at the start with the deer *sniff* brought tears to my eyes *sniff* it was beautiful. Not to mention the historic lines:

"You expect me to smell them?"
"I did"

"How do you like these gooseberries?"
"I eat gooseberries for breakfast"
"I can't believe this macho bullsh!t"

"Where'd you learn to do that?"
"I read the instructions."

tman

Originally posted by D
"How do you like these gooseberries?"
"I eat gooseberries for breakfast"
"I can't believe this macho bullsh!t"

makes a lot more sense if you replace 'gooseberries' with 'green berets':D

dangerman

those robots were the dumbest things i've ever seen.

ur going up against big evil machines with tentacles and u dont put any armour on the front.

and that whole story with the kid. what the ****? wesley crusher in a bad episode of tng was better than that ****e.

weemcd

Originally posted by AngelofFire
am i the only person who thought that this movie was absolutely fantastic. the action scenes were unlike anything i had ever seen.

no you arent, i agree but to a lesser extent. i loved the battle for zion and im not ashamed to admit it

Caesar_Bojangle

I bought it off play, thinking I might get it a few days before it was released here. Thank you an post, I'm still waiting for it and my cheapo family guy box sets.

am i the only person who thought that this movie was absolutely fantastic. the action scenes were unlike anything i had ever seen.

fantastic may be too strong a word but I really liked it

Karl Hungus

Originally posted by dangerman
and that whole story with the kid. what the ****? wesley crusher in a bad episode of tng was better than that ****e.

Oh dear god... That was it exactly.

When that commander fellow shouted "YOU CAN DO IT KID!" I nearly want to kick the ****ing speakers in.

And speaking about the robots, who's ****ing idea was it to have them hold their guns 'Gangsta' style...!?

D

Originally posted by tman
makes a lot more sense if you replace 'gooseberries' with 'green berets':D

No it doesn't his fists are his gooseberries. Honestly... :rolleyes:

JP Mulvano

Cause Gangsta syle is more fun thats why!!!!!!!!!! oh yeah.

The whole armour thing was a bit Dumb, but nonetheless when yer man gets his face ripped off, Classic!!!! although some bone poking thru would not have gone a miss

Anyone sit an wonder like me that the bullets the stupid kid was reloading the APU's with weren't an awful lot of bullets. It looked like you'd go thru the whole thing in 10 secs flat (Ahhhh I do so love picking holes in movies that cost hundreds of millions of dollars)

dangerman

Anyone sit an wonder like me that the bullets the stupid kid was reloading the APU's with weren't an awful lot of bullets. It looked like you'd go thru the whole thing in 10 secs flat (Ahhhh I do so love picking holes in movies that cost hundreds of millions of dollars)

granted its sci-fi/fantasy so u can always say to plot holes: 'a wizard did it.' but the reason the first was so successful was cause it set out the rules for its world and stuck to them.

now by the third one we've got robots flipping their guns around and neo being connected to the machines through some hi-band wifi connection to his brain.

so so so dissapointing. the theories circulating round the net between reloaded & revolutions were so much cooler than what actually ended up happening in the end.

Pepe LeFrits

Steaming heap of shite.

-oRnein9-

The train man some allpowerful? guy who won't let neo pass a bit scruffy if ya ask me! The herds of sentinoids look a bit crazy, but all in all its not by a long shot near what it was supposed to or could have been. Oh yeah the face on the master machine is also stupid.

Karl Hungus

Does anyone else think that in 10 or 20 years, they'll do a Mystery Science Theater 3000 jobbie on The Matrix?

Kain

I thought that it was a really god film. The only bit i have trouble understanding is how Smith was destroyied, i think that the Source uploaded some sort of Anti-Smith program into Neo when he became possesed. Thyats the only way i can figure it out.

The last battle was one of the best fights in the series, after Burly Brawl in the second film.

And for anyone who is interested, doesn't know or hasn't looked at the special features on the DVD, the Matrix story is not over, there's going to be more> But in the form of a game that looks so kick ass, espessaly compared to Enter The Matrix.

Retr0gamer

But in the form of a game that looks so kick ass, espessaly compared to Enter The Matrix.

Enter the matrix was so bad it made baby jesus cry. The two matrix sequels were so bad they almost made me cry. I'm happy to ignire these two films and stick with watch the original as a stand alone film. I've seen better action scenes in terrible anime films and the philosophical ramblings almost put me to sleep and weren't all that clever either.

So to sum it up it isn't worth wondering what the end of revolutions meant. It was all complete ****e.

Favourite commando quote:

'Did you leave anything for us'
'Only bodies'

User45701

The Kid was what annoyed me in revulations, that was all. i had forgotten about him, probbley some sort of represed memory.

projectmayhem

Originally posted by Kain
I thought that it was a really god film. The only bit i have trouble understanding is how Smith was destroyied, i think that the Source uploaded some sort of Anti-Smith program into Neo when he became possesed. Thyats the only way i can figure it out.

The last battle was one of the best fights in the series, after Burly Brawl in the second film.

And for anyone who is interested, doesn't know or hasn't looked at the special features on the DVD, the Matrix story is not over, there's going to be more> But in the form of a game that looks so kick ass, espessaly compared to Enter The Matrix.

i loved the film, but to answer your problems with smith... neo was connected directly to the source (his purpose according to the architect was exactly that, so the architect wasn't wrong after all) and so when smith assimilated neo, his code was then decyphered and debugged by deus ex machina and therefore destroyed.

the matrix online is going to kick ass but the idea of paying a monthly fee is a bit iffy IMO

Space Coyote

Originally posted by dangerman
and that whole story with the kid. what the ****? wesley crusher in a bad episode of tng was better than that ****e.

my sentiments exactly
i've never been more píssed off with an ending to a film than the one in that Revolutions muck.

gaelic cowboy

Originally posted by Kain
I thought that it was a really god film. The only bit i have trouble understanding is how Smith was destroyied, i think that the Source uploaded some sort of Anti-Smith program into Neo when he became possesed. Thyats the only way i can figure it out.

The last battle was one of the best fights in the series, after Burly Brawl in the second film.

And for anyone who is interested, doesn't know or hasn't looked at the special features on the DVD, the Matrix story is not over, there's going to be more> But in the form of a game that looks so kick ass, espessaly compared to Enter The Matrix.

It's obvious if you just think about what the architect and oracle were for he balances the equation she unbalances neo is her baby and smith is his. However the lose control of the situation when neo does not choose theIr door and chooses to save Trinity Instead. Smith just grow's exponentially until only neo can resist him but he can not defeat him as an increase in neo only increases smith therefore death of neo kill's smith as now the equation is balanced and there is no need for smith to balance neo unbalancing the equation.

neXus9

But since neo could see that the survivor was really agent smith, doesn't that say that there is a matrix within a matrix (also he managed to kill off a load of those spider robots with his powers).

Silent Assasin

Im just praying for an Easter Egg on the DVD tha explains it all..

Agent Smith

i will never be destroyed!






that is all!

Wook

Maybe it's an age thing, younger people couldn't catch all the small hints and change of directions our bit older generation does

I mean , the movie was great (to me) i saw several creative 'art' forms mended together as i have never seen before. Huge influences of manga (the flying , the mid air fist collisions - akira anyone?).

The scenes that are made straight from a Geoff darrow comic, see thats the point, most of you youngsters don't know this sh!t, but if you look at the comics 'hard boiled' you'll see what i mean. There is a part in the comic where the 'taxman is connected to a machine to fix hime back to life, very similar.

The APU's . com'n cool or what ? i want one for Xmass, front armour plate or not, this is the stuff of legends, the dreams you had when you played with your 'goldorak' and the 'transformers' the APU's rock so hard !

Then off course we have the old time 'Kung fu', hello, where do you think they got this insperation from ? it's a damn tribute to all those neglected asian VHS tapes i got. Kung fu makes it up close and very personal. the satisfaction of a successfull hit is not to be underestimated, the art of spinning and dancing around the oponent to get him where you want him to be is thrilling.

Guns and high tech, the new drug in our movie cultures, name one cool action movie without them ?! The art of portraiing a gun as something as an extension of the fighting arm and sorry to say a sexy tool of destruction is breathtaking.

The names and symbolisme of ancient names and stories told many years before in history and make them sound hip and not aged is 'supergreen'. how many of you know what these names mean? even if you would look up the meanings of the characters it would make the movie even more interresting.

and yes , it does help if you see the 'Animatrix' and played the game.
so there you go youngsters, stop complaining and leave us older folks with the satisfaction of a completed moviegoers life.

:cool:

(sorry about possible spellings mistakes, my new pc doesnt seem to contain a wordproccesor preinstalled).

slave1

being kind to the sequels

matrix - excellent, have watched many times, will watch again

reloaded - disappointing, watched twice (because I feel asleep first time) won't watch again

revolutions - very very disappointing, keeping the same downward trend from the drop in quality the second movie brought, will not watch again

all in all a shame taken together as a trilogy, had great potential but got lost along the way, at least be thankful for part one, one of the great movies of the last few years

as regards the continuation of the matrix via online/games, not for the wider audience, I think Star Wars has the expanded universe cornered

koneko

I think Maddox sums it up very nicely
Oh and Wook cut out the patronising drivel mmkay? We're not all youngsters-that-haven't-a-clue. I saw Animatrix and played the game (as god awful as it was). If you enjoyed the film, fair play, but a lot of us didn't. Putting in some references and influences and cool names doesn't make a film good.

DiscoStu

Originally posted by Karl Hungus
Actually, you're right Giblet...

I'm being a bit harsh lumping Commando with Revolutions, when I'd probably love to watch it again while drunk, and giggle at all those great one-liners.

"Don't disturb my friend, he's dead tired."

you forgot the best one:

"What did you do with him?

I let him go."

ixoy

Originally posted by Wook
I mean , the movie was great (to me) i saw several creative 'art' forms mended together as i have never seen before. Huge influences of manga (the flying , the mid air fist collisions - akira anyone?).

And? Being influenced by manga doesn't make it a good movie. For example, I could draw a turd flying around on the screen, with receding lines to indicate its speed, in a vague animé style. It's still sh1t however....

The scenes that are made straight from a Geoff darrow comic, see thats the point, most of you youngsters don't know this sh!t, but if you look at the comics 'hard boiled' you'll see what i mean. There is a part in the comic where the 'taxman is connected to a machine to fix hime back to life, very similar.

Well not quite but I see where you're coming from. Can't say too much more for fear of spoiling the Miller story but I'd have loved if they had been properly influenced by the series and incorporated its great chaotic artwork! You know those two page spreads featuring an insane level of detail? That would have been neat. The Wachowskis generally went the opposite stylistically, with clean smooth edges, et cetera.

The APU's . com'n cool or what ? i want one for Xmass, front armour plate or not, this is the stuff of legends, the dreams you had when you played with your 'goldorak' and the 'transformers' the APU's rock so hard !

I'll go for option two here - "or what". The SFX don't hold up although the scene is one of the better moments of the film.

Then off course we have the old time 'Kung fu', hello, where do you think they got this insperation from ? it's a damn tribute to all those neglected asian VHS tapes i got. Kung fu makes it up close and very personal. the satisfaction of a successfull hit is not to be underestimated, the art of spinning and dancing around the oponent to get him where you want him to be is thrilling.

Right....You see "Kill Bill: Volume I" is a tribute to Asian movies. The latter Matrix movies? Not so much. I can't recall the bit where the Asian heros fly into the sky to punch one another in wincing slow motion. There was some of the flow, for sure, but again it was constantly undermined by being both overdone and drowning in poor CGI.

The names and symbolisme of ancient names and stories told many years before in history and make them sound hip and not aged is 'supergreen'. how many of you know what these names mean? even if you would look up the meanings of the characters it would make the movie even more interresting.

Umm I knew most of them. Literary allusions do not create depth. In this case they smacked of desperation by the writers to achieve some sort of creativity through abusing past mythologies. It also smacked of pretension to a degree that I wanted to deliver smacks to the Wachowskis.

and yes , it does help if you see the 'Animatrix' and played the game.
so there you go youngsters, stop complaining and leave us older folks with the satisfaction of a completed moviegoers life.

Hate to burst your bubble Pops but these two movies were derided by young and old, stupid and educated, ugly and beautiful - every walk of life practically had spiteful words or, at least, disappointed faces after seeing these movies. Homages and allusions are fine, but you need something underneath to support them. The Matrix: Reloaded and The Matrix Revolutions did not. For shame.

Karl Hungus

Originally posted by Wook
Self-righteous pseudo-intellectual pretentious tripe cut out for space.

Honestly Wook, do you beleive all that hogwash?
Sounds to me like someone was (and still is) very caught up in the hype.

dangerman

In response to Mooks post:

The idea that throwing in all those little references to other art forms/mythologies etc. made the film good and meant it's brilliance was missed by the majority is not true, and even if it were it just points to a complete and utter failing by the movie makers to make anyone see this. (And no i'm not talking about dumbing down, i'm talking about effective storytelling, an issue that should rate quite high when a film is created and reviewed.)

The One, etc The idea, although a simple one, was pulled off with such skill and panache in the original matrix - the mixing of genres worked perfectly there. Out in the sequels though, the w. brothers seem to have extrapolated the ideas into total nonsense.

The bombshell that was the original Matrix melded those 'art' forms together splendidly. The sequels did nothing but undermine the achievement of that first one by trying far too hard to be cool with in-your-endo mythological bandicooting all over the place; rather than continuing a really good story.

For shame indeed.

orangerooster

So bad,so very very bad.The whole "package" of the last two films such as games etc just rubbed ten tons of salt in the wound of the first film.The cg was often truly bad but the story was about as convincing as a very unconvincing thing (i had a great thing but i forgot it.)

AngelofFire

i think the major twist in revolutions is that the existence of the matrix is inevitable. the people of zion accept the fact that they cannot free everyone and that the machines cannot be beaten. the architect also aknowledges the fact that people will always try to escape from the matrix thats why he designs a more perfect version of it in the end so that people would not reject it.

Neo goes in to face agent smith in order to balance the series of equations that the oracle mentions. i think that neo may also be a programme as he disappears without a trace at the end of the movie.

its a very clever concept imo. people were far too critical of revolutions imo. then again insatiable high standards are always expected of triology finales as we have seen with Return of the jedi and return of the king

neXus9

Originally posted by ixoy
I can't recall the bit where the Asian heros fly into the sky to punch one another in wincing slow motion.

Well, crouching tiger hidden dragon was a bit like that particular flying scene with Neo and Agent smith.

projectmayhem

i'm sick to death of people ripping apart the matrix reloaded and revolutions. why? "because they don't give the answers they promised"... WHO PROMISED ANSWERS? and there were answers, everywhere. i left revolutions with a grin because everything from reloaded clicked. it makes sense. the entire trilogy makes absolute perfect sense. there's so much in this film. one of the actors, cornell west, playing a councellor in zion said "this movie has 500 layers, some walk away with 1 some walk away with 500". you don't need to be a doctorate in philosophy to get it. i sure as hell aint and i get it.

i agree the dialog was something to be desired, but there's a good reason for that. in the original matrix, the wachowski brothers and their team of people were left alone with joel silver with tickles of money coming to them to storyboard it with steve skroce and geoff darrow. the story was 100% wachowski. reloaded and revolutions has the biggest budget warner brothers has ever given a movie, and therefore it was scrutenised by the big wigs. so this movie made by fans of anime and comic books couldn't create a similar feel.

in revolutions an amazing amount of smith was taken out and replaced by zion. and that's just one example of what WB closed in on.

i've also heard people moaning about bullet time being used too much. it doesn't get used at all in the sequals! a new thing called "virtual cinematography" is used which allows them to put the camera anywhere they want to. they didn't get an oscar nomination for it because WB wouldn't let them talk about how they did it... thanks to a contract. WB wants to keep it because they didn't like how bullet time was featured in everything from charlies angels to documentaries from war torn countries and music videos... or whatever.


jesus that was a long post

dangerman

i'm sick to death of people ripping apart the matrix reloaded and revolutions. why? "because they don't give the answers they promised"... WHO PROMISED ANSWERS? and there were answers, everywhere. i left revolutions with a grin because everything from reloaded clicked. it makes sense. the entire trilogy makes absolute perfect sense. there's so much in this film. one of the actors, cornell west, playing a councellor in zion said "this movie has 500 layers, some walk away with 1 some walk away with 500". you don't need to be a doctorate in philosophy to get it. i sure as hell aint and i get it.

The answers it gave were crap. So what if they made sense. I think the story was just really really bad. As I've said b4 everyone's theories on what was going to happen were a billion times better than what happened. Had some really nice characters created, a fantastic setup for a really interesting conclusion... and did nothing with them.

i agree the dialog was something to be desired, but there's a good reason for that. in the original matrix, the wachowski brothers and their team of people were left alone with joel silver with tickles of money coming to them to storyboard it with steve skroce and geoff darrow. the story was 100% wachowski. reloaded and revolutions has the biggest budget warner brothers has ever given a movie, and therefore it was scrutenised by the big wigs. so this movie made by fans of anime and comic books couldn't create a similar feel.

...Which all leads to a poor movie, which reloaded is kinda and revolutions is totally.

in revolutions an amazing amount of smith was taken out and replaced by zion. and that's just one example of what WB closed in on.

...Which makes revolutions crap, its a crap movie. Your making all these points as to why its bad, as if it should be excused, as if the poor wachowski's made a masterpiece and WB ruined it. I don't care, I rate the movie as it comes out, and it came out crap.

i've also heard people moaning about bullet time being used too much. it doesn't get used at all in the sequals! a new thing called "virtual cinematography" is used which allows them to put the camera anywhere they want to. they didn't get an oscar nomination for it because WB wouldn't let them talk about how they did it... thanks to a contract. WB wants to keep it because they didn't like how bullet time was featured in everything from charlies angels to documentaries from war torn countries and music videos... or whatever.

Again, so what. All the CGI in the world does not a good movie make. In both revolutions & reloaded the fights had no dramatic tension when neo was involved, so while we were supposed to be marvelling at him kicking the crap out of a bunch of vampires etc. everyone is wondering whats the point, neo is a god round these parts, we know he's going to win. Etc. etc. etc.

The sequels are an exercise in terrible movie making at its extreme.

Caesar_Bojangle

The extras on the reloaded and revolutions dvds are crap. I don't normally give a turd about extras, but when it comes to the 'big' films I usually expect there to be some decent extras, especially with the huge fan base the matrix has I was kind of expecting a decent documentary on the impact its had on nerds and film alike, but all we get are the same bullet-time and wire documentaries that were on the first two.

Does Neo actually die at the end?
At the end when the machines haul away his body on that platform thing, we see an orange light around his body - the way he seen the world through his eyes when he was blinded

gaelic cowboy

Originally posted by neXus9
But since neo could see that the survivor was really agent smith, doesn't that say that there is a matrix within a matrix (also he managed to kill off a load of those spider robots with his powers).

No because NEO is connected to the source he can see the machine code and therefore he can see smith however NEO is blind phiscally but he doesnt need sight now.

dangerman

No because NEO is connected to the source he can see the machine code and therefore he can see smith however NEO is blind phiscally but he doesnt need sight now.

So just to clarify, the machines build wi-fi capability into the humans?

and i saw neo still required a hard-wire connection for the massive bandwidth hog that is the matrix.