Young Drivers Insurance

TrickyRicky

when i started drivin 2 years ago at 17, i was quoted as a named driver on my dads 1.3l 1990 isuzu gemini (fully comp) by axa at being €2800 for the year on a provo licence...........this was ridiculous considerin that when we tradedin the car later that year we only got €1000, and that was a special offer, how come i was payin about 3 times what the auto was worth?????? in the end i took out 4 mths insurance @ €1100

now 19 and with a full clean licence i intend to shop for quotes once i get some €, if its more than €2000 i'm going to tell axa where they can shove this kind of discrimination

Ripwave

Originally posted by TrickyRicky
when i started drivin 2 years ago at 17, i was quoted as a named driver on my dads 1.3l 1990 isuzu gemini (fully comp) by axa at being €2800 for the year on a provo licence...........this was ridiculous considerin that when we tradedin the car later that year we only got €1000, and that was a special offer, how come i was payin about 3 times what the auto was worth??????

I'm not defending Axa, but insurance doesn't just cover the damage to your car, it also covers damage to someone elses car, or property, and injuries to the other person. Paying for fully comp on a car that's only worth €1000 is a waste of money, but in all likelyhood, the cost for including you on the policy wouldn't have been much different even if it had only been 3rd party, fire and theft.

seamus

Originally posted by Ripwave
I'm not defending Axa, but insurance doesn't just cover the damage to your car, it also covers damage to someone elses car, or property, and injuries to the other person. Paying for fully comp on a car that's only worth €1000 is a waste of money, but in all likelyhood, the cost for including you on the policy wouldn't have been much different even if it had only been 3rd party, fire and theft.

Afaik, some insurance companies won't even cover cars worth less then about €2k (I think) fully comp. I don't know why, maybe it's to stop people putting in personal injury claims when they don't get as much for their car as they thought they would.

Genghis

Originally posted by TrickyRicky

now 19 and with a full clean licence i intend to shop for quotes once i get some €, if its more than €2000 i'm going to tell axa where they can shove this kind of discrimination

TrickyRicky, wihout condoning the insurance companies, I'd say that if you manage to find a quote under €2k at 19 you will be doing extremely well (I would've thought you would be looking at €3k plus given that you had been paying close to that as a named driver). The only way you can hope to get it any way less than that before you are 25 will be, ironically, to pay the high charges now and build up a NCB and a good record.

Your driving experience as a named driver will not count for much, especially if you are being quoted by a company other than that which you were on as a named driver. Especially if (as I read in to your post) you took a break between policies - AFAIK any NCB can be wiped if you go without insurance for 3 months or longer.

leeroybrown

€2000 would be a very reasonable quote tbh. I'm 22 with 2.5 years full license. The last time I checked what I would be quoted I was looking at closer to €2.5 on a 1.2 litre hair dryer.

As for age discrimination, there are quite a lot of accurate statistics that show the breakdown of accidents and claim costs by age and sex. Insurance companies just spread out the rather considerable average cost on a per risk basis.

MoosemaN

Hello Everyone,

A swed here. I must say the insurance price in this country is nothing else then robbery!

I'm 26 and have had my license since I was 18. I asked for a quote on a 1.6L golf -97 and was given the price of 3600Euros!

I'm now driving a car from sweden a 2.3L volvo and it costs me 360Euros in insurance and anyone can drive it. The insurance is not on the driver but for the car.

Irish car insurance companies needs to get their act together and stop robbing people.

leeroybrown

The real problem is the amount of money spent on claims. 30%+ of every premium goes to a solicitor. I don't know the figure for the joint fund for uninsured cars but I'd say it's a sizable percentage. The level of payout is excessive in a large percentage of cases also.

And to top it off the insurers then make their profit margin calculations based on a percentage of a large figure.

TrickyRicky

hmm.......im just fed of of being ripped off, especially since public transport stinks in this banana republic...........sittin in traffic in a car travelling from bray to ucd on the stilllorgan dualler is preferable to gettin a packed dart and bus every mornin and evenin........but car insurance is too expensive so the young are being discriminated against in choosing thier form of transport.

is there some petition to the government about the high cost of insurance or lobby group out there? even if its run by fine gael or oppostion parties?

leeroybrown

MIJAG (I don't know if there are others):
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?forumid=229
http://www.mijag.com/

I doubt if the opposition parties would be involved in any specific groups as they are generally fixated on individually winning political points and too disorganised to attack in this fashion.

Also, the government are actually trying to do something about this but their wheels do tend to turn immensly slowly.

Over the next year or so hopefully the PIAB (Personal Injuries Assessment Board) can start to work successfully and reduce both the size of many payouts (some people do deserve the money) and the number of cases reaching courts (making a serious dent in that 30%). Naturally the legal profession are trying to keep their cash cow and stalling - and they're a very very powerful lobby group.

In the whole situation I think the greatest irony is that in the past the insurance companies themselves lobbied the government (sucessfully) to change the law to remove jury trials for personal injuries stating that it would eliminate excessive payouts only to find it had the opposite effect.

Gurgle

As for age discrimination, there are quite a lot of accurate statistics that show the breakdown of accidents and claim costs by age and sex. Insurance companies just spread out the rather considerable average cost on a per risk basis.

Where ?
I have heard many many times that there are such statistics but where the hell are they ?

I've been driving 11 yeards, since I was 17 and have never had a claim against me. Same goes for very nearly all of my mates. Those few who have had accidents & claims against them - in every case the claim was less than the total insurance paid by that single individual over the previous years they have been driving. I know nobody who has paid less to insurance companies than the insurance company paid out in liability.

ITS ALL A SCAM

Irish car insurance companies needs to get their act together and stop robbing people.

HA!

They have their act so thoroughly together that they can rob everyone blind all at the same time, then blame their victims.

In Ireland, there is to all intents and purposes NO public transport. 'We're not there yet but we're getting there' - No we're not. We're going nowhere.

Fair enough, Dublin bus has got better over the last few years 'through the introduction of QBCs'.

WTF ?

Thats just white paint, now there is a lane on every road thats empty nearly all the time so that if a bus actually does show up it can move faster.

Meanwhile the tailbacks are twice as bad because they took away one of the lanes.

They have spent billions on a line of white paint 4 inches wide and 100 miles long.
And guess what - we're meant to be grateful for it.

Anyhow, back to the point.
Having a car is not a luxory in Ireland, its a neccessity.

We don't have any alternative, providing the perfect 'market' for the insurance companies to charge what they like and make absolutely obscene profits.

Who thinks the european companies are going to make it better for us ?

They will eventually be insuring Irish drivers, not for our sake but to get their own share of the gravy.

Its become common knowledge that the irish will pay whatever they are charged for pretty much anything.

A 2-bed house in Clonee - €280,000
Car insurance - €2,800
TV ownership fine - €150

could go on and on forever


Screw this, I'm moving to France.

Bye

Ripwave

Originally posted by Gurgle
I have heard many many times that there are such statistics but where the hell are they ?

First you imply that the statistics that suggest young drivers cost insyrance companies more aren't available.

We don't have any alternative, providing the perfect 'market' for the insurance companies to charge what they like and make absolutely obscene profits.

Then you throw out your own "statistics", but don't bother to provide any supporting evidence. Do you know what the profit rates of any Irish insurance companies are?

On the weekend before last, 7 people died on the roads. All young men, all in single vehicle accidents:

Brian Geary (18), the rear seat passenger in a car which crashed near his home in Castlefin, Co. Donegal.
Within 24 hours a man in his 20s had died, and two people were seriously injured, in another road accident in the vicinity of Castlefin.
At some time on Saturday Graham Walsh (21) from Rosslare Strand was killed when he lost control of his motorcycle at Rathdowney, Co. Wexford.
Late that night two young men died when their car crashed into a wall on the Kingston Road in the Salthill area of Galway.
Also in the early hours of Sunday, David Fowler (29) and Patrick Dowling (26), both of Fortlawn Drive in Dublin 15, lost their lives when their car crashed in Mulhuddart, Co. Dublin.
http://www.emigrant.ie/files/indexfile.asp?id=148#28755

Ripwave

Originally posted by Gurgle
Screw this, I'm moving to France.

Are you going to complain about their income tax rates when you get there?

Gurgle

Then you throw out your own "statistics", but don't bother to provide any supporting evidence. Do you know what the profit rates of any Irish insurance companies are?

I didn't quote statistics, I made a gross generalization that insurance companies make obscent profits in Ireland.

"AXA Ireland's operating performance exceeded expectations in 2003: all business lines returned profits with an overall combined ratio of 86 percent, and an ROE of 50 percent. The market as a whole has been benefiting from an improving claims environment, and AXA Ireland's performance in this context is considered exceptional and not sustainable in the long term, as premium rate reductions begin to impact published results. Nevertheless, AXA Ireland produced better results than most peers in 2003, as the company enjoys a lower expense base."

Linky

"Axa has cut costs by €1.24 billion since the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks, and raised prices for property and casualty coverage."

Linky

31 Aug 2002: Pre-TAX profits at FBD Plc are up by 67 per cent to €14.1 million for the first six months of this year. Turnover increased by 14 per cent to €172.33 million. At operating level the insurance and property group returned a profit of €17.32 million. That's a 34 per cent improvement on the level achieved in the opening half of last year.

Linky

August 27, 2003 17:11
FBD Holdings has announced pre-tax profits of €55.3m for the first half of this year, up over 290% on the same period last year.

Operating profit at the insurer was up over 250% with the most significant increase seen in insurance underwriting, which was up from €10.6m to €48.7m. Turnover at the firm increased by over 26% to €217.5m.

Linky

All Motorists are Due One Year Free Insurance Due to Insurance Hike Scam
During the years 2001 & 2002 the reserves of the motor insurance companies almost doubled, growing by over €1 billion. They took over €200 million in profit at the end of those two years. Total figures for 2003 are not yet available but the big five motor insurance companies did announce record profits of over €500 million. During 2001 and 2002 there were massive premium hikes for everyone. There was a slight drop in 2003 but people still paid way more than in the late 90s. These premium hikes went to boost insurance company profits and reserves. It is clear from the 2001/2002 figures published in the Blue Books that they were not justified and should be returned to all of us. Read more here>>>

Link

Brian Geary (18), the rear seat passenger in a car which crashed near his home in Castlefin, Co. Donegal.

And rear seat passengers are paying insurance now ?

Within 24 hours a man in his 20s had died, and two people were seriously injured, in another road accident in the vicinity of Castlefin.

Who was driving ?

At some time on Saturday Graham Walsh (21) from Rosslare Strand was killed when he lost control of his motorcycle at Rathdowney, Co. Wexford.

AFAIK, unless he had comprehensive insurance, there would not be a payout for this.
If he had comprehensive insurance, this should not affect 3rd party insurance prices.

Late that night two young men died when their car crashed into a wall on the Kingston Road in the Salthill area of Galway.

I can't argue with those details

Also in the early hours of Sunday, David Fowler (29) and Patrick Dowling (26), both of Fortlawn Drive in Dublin 15, lost their lives when their car crashed in Mulhuddart, Co. Dublin.

Who was driving ?
I'm 28 and my insurance has gradually come down to €640, which I have to say is quite reasonable. I'm not quite middle aged yet but I'm finally out of the maximum-loading age group. Likewise these guys.

In 11 years driving bikes & cars, I've been rear-ended twice and reversed into once. All 3 occasions were men in their late 30s, two of them on mobile phones at the time.

Are you going to complain about their income tax rates when you get there?

Yes
Of course

Why do you think we pay 20 - 25% more for everything here compared to our european neighbours ? (Link before you start getting upset)

Because we don't complain enough.
We pay what we're charged.

Incidentally, what is the income tax rate in France ?
And what tax do they pay on a pint / bottle of wine / road tax / TV license ?
Do they have an extra tax masquerading as PRSI ?

Supporting evidence ?

Ripwave

Originally posted by Gurgle
August 27, 2003 17:11
FBD Holdings has announced pre-tax profits of €55.3m for the first half of this year, up over 290% on the same period last year.

Operating profit at the insurer was up over 250% with the most significant increase seen in insurance underwriting, which was up from €10.6m to €48.7m. Turnover at the firm increased by over 26% to €217.5m.

Linky

Fair dues, they are all good, relevant links.

Why do you think we pay 20 - 25% more for everything here compared to our european neighbours ? (Link before you start getting upset)

Because costs are higher, and successive governments have pursued policies that have driven prices up (in part by encouraging speculation).

Incidentally, what is the income tax rate in France ?

How's your French? http://vosdroits.service-public.fr/particuliers/ARBO/NX13.html

According to this pdf file that quotes OECD data, the top rate is over 60%. (There's more OECD data here here, but I can't open Excel files on this machine, so I can't tell you what they say).

And what tax do they pay on a pint / bottle of wine / road tax / TV license ?
Do they have an extra tax masquerading as PRSI ?

You tell me - after all, you're the one planning to move there! (As someone who doesn't drink beer or wine, I don't particularly care if they give the stuff our free in France). PRSI is exactly what is says on the lable - Insurance.

Gurgle

I'm getting sidetracked from the original point.
But anyway, what I really object to with the cost of living here is the money for nothing taxes.

I rarely watch RTE these days but I have to pay €150 for owning a TV.

The state provides no security or anything for my credit card but I have to pay a €40 tax for having it. I don't want a service from the state on my credit card. I'm middle-income, if I was earning €10K per year or €10K per week, this tax would cost the same.

I am a VHI member with a private pension plan, I buy my own glasses, pay for my own dental work, I'm insured against disability etc. but I still have to pay a noticable lump of my salary in PRSI.

Don't get me wrong, this money theoretically goes towards state pensions etc. which are absolutely central in a socialist country like Ireland but lets call a tax a tax.

I would fully support a 3rd tax band of 60% on all earnings over e.g. €70K.

Why are costs higher in Ireland ?

Take the housing boom.

We have a lower population density than many countries but the land zoning is carefully controlled to keep the cost of houses up. You spend €300K on a 3 bed semi-detached house, €200K is for the postage stamp its built on.

Net result - your average Joe Soap is paying 1/2 his income to cover his mortgage while the developers are laughing all the way to the bank.

Note - the developers, not the bricklayers.

Please don't make me find links that prove developers make a profit.

Gurgle

Interesting, took me a while to figure out what it meant:

Here's some bits:

Table 1. Marginal personal income tax and social security contribution rates on gross labour income (2001)

% of APW: 67% 100% 133% 167%
% Paid in tax: 30.0% 33.9% 53.6% 50.5% (Ireland)
% Paid in tax: 65.6% 66.7% 70.4% 70.4% (Belgium)
% Paid in tax: 39.2% 39.2% 39.2% 30.3% (UK)
% Paid in tax: 25.2% 29.0% 29.0% 37.4% (Japan)
% Paid in tax: 62.6% 53.0% 53.6% 53.6% (France)

At a glance, only in Ireland and UK, if you earn 133% of APW, you pay a higher percentage of your income in tax than if you earn 167% of the APW.

I don't know if it includes the extra taxes we pay for goods & services.

Anyone know what APW stands for ?

France doesn't look terribly fair now.

Holy crap, I'm definitely not moving to Belgium.

Ripwave

Originally posted by Gurgle
We have a lower population density than many countries but the land zoning is carefully controlled

by politicians that we elect!

Please don't make me find links that prove developers make a profit.

No need. You won't get any argument for me. (Though the bricklayers don't do so bad).

TrickyRicky

what happened to the rants bout car insurance...........?

this is exactly why rates remain high.........lack of unity amongst drivers/citizens. we should make it a case to say no once and for all to high insurance rates for everyone and especially young male drivers who are hardest hit sice they are usually students or only have a few years of earnings under their belts if they went stright into the workforce.

Calibos

Slightly off topic but Irish New Car buyers magazine have recently had articles calling for the abolition of VRT. There was a bit of a follow up in this months mag tieing in road safety. Apparently safety features like multiple airbags, drivers aids like esp and abs etc are all standard across most of Europe on even the lowliest models. To keep prices down manufacturers have made these extras on low to medium range models sold in Ireland. So thanks FF, not only do you rip us off with car prices but you put our safety at risk too!

Ripwave

Originally posted by Gurgle
Interesting, took me a while to figure out what it meant:

Here's some bits:

Table 1. Marginal personal income tax and social security contribution rates on gross labour income (2001)

% of APW: 67% 100% 133% 167%
% Paid in tax: 30.0% 33.9% 53.6% 50.5% (Ireland)

At a glance, only in Ireland and UK, if you earn 133% of APW, you pay a higher percentage of your income in tax than if you earn 167% of the APW.

I'm not sure the chart is correct on that point. There is a ceiling on the amount of PRSI that you pay, so that once you go above a certain level, the amount of PRSI is fixed, so it falls as a percentage, but it doesn't fall that much between 133% and 167% of APW. But because your tax free allowance is also a smaller percentage of your overall income as your income increases, the actual %age tax take is still higher (See the 2nd table in the link above).

When the OECD chart was drawn up, in 2001, Ireland had the lowest tax rates in the EU for those earning up to 133% of APW, (and these rates are lower that the US too). Higher earners fared slightly better in the US and the UK.

I don't know if it includes the extra taxes we pay for goods & services.

It only includes Income taxes and "social security" payments. VAT rates in France are 2.0%, 5.5% and 19.6%. VAT Rates in Ireland are 4.3%, 13.5% and 21%. In Blegium, they are 6%, 12% and 21% (2003 rates).

Anyone know what APW stands for ?

It's defined in the footnotes - Average Production Wage, ie, average gross wage of people working in the Manufacturing sector. Aka Average Industrial Wage. According to the spreadsheet, it was IEP 18,685 (€23725) at the time the comparison was drawn up (2001). Our income tax rates have gone down since then, as far as I can remember.

cranoo

Got my quote today for third party cover 390 yoyos

exCrumlinBoyo

Lads & Lassies,

I'm probably going to piss you off by this post, but it's totally unintentional. I live in Florida USA now and have done for the last 2 years. It's only when I moved over here that I relised how much Irish people are being ripped of.

When I lived there I earned a pretty decent wage, but never seam to have anything to show for it because of the cost of living. I'm now 24 years of age, and at the age of 21 I was quoted something like 3500 Euro for car insurance and a poxy ford fiesta. I said Fook that and bit my tongue and bought a Moped. The insurance on that fully comp was I think 1200 euro a year and second year I had it I paid 600 euro for 3rd party, which at them prices and for the piece of **** I was driving, it pissed me off.

So as luck would have it I moved to Florida with my wife who is American. This time last year I bought my first car here in the states. A 93' Dodge Sprit for $800. It's a grand motor but right now its showing it years. My Annual insurance premium for fully comp is $900 & I'm not talking the minimum coverage either.

At the end of this month I'm buy a new car. A 2000' Honda CRV. A beautiful vechial indeed and I have been on to my insurance company to see how much it would be. Right now, with me being 24 they quoted me $625 ever six months and when I turn 25 in June that will drop to $505 every 6 months or $1010 every year.

As you can see, their is a huge difference in price here in Florida as compared to back home.

Even though I live in Florida and have no desire to go back to Ireland any time soon, I miss Dublin and Ireland so so much and my heart will always remain there, but for the simply fact that I provide for my family so much better here than back home will keep me here in Florida.

Ireland and Irish people are being taken to the cleaners by the Government, insurance companies, Pubs ect. It's ridiculous.

Here in Florida, a pack of smokes will cost me $2.50. I can go to the pub and get a pitcher of Budweiser of $3.00 (I'm not sure how many pints are in a pitcher, but there is a lot of beer in one ! ) A liter of petrol costs around $0.50. I'm in the process of buying a house right now. I'm looking to buy a 3 bedroomed house with 3,150 Square Feet of space built on an Acre of Land and its going to cost $73,000. That's a Mortgage payment of $450 a month.

Taking all the above into account, I'm not including the Abundant year round sunshine and the climate I live in. As I said I miss and Love Ireland with all my heart, but because of the way the economy is, I can never see myself moving back to Dublin to live. I have it too good over here.

I was not prepared to pay Irish Car Insurance Rates back home, and I have written this for all of you, who are paying through the noses for Car Insurance , Rent , Mortgage's to think twice before you pay, because if people keep on paying the prices are going to keep on going up and up and up.

And just for the record, I can smoke my $2.50 pack of smokes in my local pub, while drinking my $3.00 Pitcher of beer also.

Best of luck my fello Irish Men, I got lucky with my wife been a Floridian, and I thank my lucky stars when I read topics on forums like this that I had a opportunity to get out. Yis are all better people than me paying through the pocket like yis do.

Slan.

ando

Your wife have any single sisters

$450 = €377 a month for a morgage in Florida

Jesus, last year I was paying €576 a month for car insurance

halkar

exCrumlinBoyo, you really pissed me off

Samba

A very big factor is the amount of money being paid out for injuries, when European insurance eventually does arrive (reportedly Autumn 04), the Irish claim nation are going to be in for a very big shock, just to provide you with an example, for a fractured Lumber vertebrae and compressed vertebrae,( taking France as another example), you would be eligible to a claim in the region of €10,000 + expenses.



I would like to see the sum on an injury similar to the above based on an irish insurance claim.


I was recently quoted 700 Euro(and was told it was rising again in June) for 49cc hairdyer, I have no intention on paying this and I will be selling it as a result. I am 23 years of age, this is an absoloute disgrace. I have a friend who works in insurance, be under no illusion that they make marginal profits.

OHP

Thing I cannot understand about Insurance is that for the last 35 odd years driveing without any accidents / claims. My insurance never once went down. Only Up! And I never owned a car worth more than €10 to €12k.


OHP

PowerHouseDan

i'm 19 1 year full lis and 2 years name on a 1litre its 1100 under my own name iwht hiber and 1600 on a 1.4 i think those quotes are really good

raster

Folks, looking at the prices mentioned in this thread, I was prompted to see if the fine for having no insurance would be cheaper!

The best I could find was

http://www.oasis.gov.ie/transport/motoring/driving_offences.html

Motor insurance offences: generally punishable by a fine of up to 2,500 euro, disqualification of one year or more for a first offence and two years or more for a second offence, and, at the discretion of the court, a term of imprisonment not exceeding six months. Since 1st June 2003, where the court decides not to impose a disqualification drivers convicted of a first offence of driving without insurance will incur 5 penalty points on their licence record in addition to any other penalty imposed by the court

While the 2,500 is relatively cheap the other penalties make this an unattractive option.

Comments?

seamus

Originally posted by raster
While the 2,500 is relatively cheap the other penalties make this an unattractive option.

Comments?

There's also the issue of what happens if you hit someone and completely destroy their life. Monetary comeback is little solice, but it's better than absolutely nothing.

Gurgle

While the 2,500 is relatively cheap the other penalties make this an unattractive option.

lol
PAYC insurance used to be popular a few years ago when the fine for a first offence was £150. Not such a good policy anymore.

shoegirl

Originally posted by Genghis
.
Your driving experience as a named driver will not count for much, especially if you are being quoted by a company other than that which you were on as a named driver. Especially if (as I read in to your post) you took a break between policies - AFAIK any NCB can be wiped if you go without insurance for 3 months or longer.

3 months won't make much difference. Some might not like the break in insurance but most insurers will allow you an NCB on a "lapsed" policy for up to 2 years. After which you will be treated the same as if you never drove at all, even if you had a 5 year plus NCB and regardless of licence type. Unfortunately "no claims" and "driving experience" are often confused in the mind of the insurer.

shoegirl

Originally posted by raster
Folks, looking at the prices mentioned in this thread, I was prompted to see if the fine for having no insurance would be cheaper!

The best I could find was

http://www.oasis.gov.ie/transport/motoring/driving_offences.html

Motor insurance offences: generally punishable by a fine of up to 2,500 euro, disqualification of one year or more for a first offence and two years or more for a second offence, and, at the discretion of the court, a term of imprisonment not exceeding six months. Since 1st June 2003, where the court decides not to impose a disqualification drivers convicted of a first offence of driving without insurance will incur 5 penalty points on their licence record in addition to any other penalty imposed by the court

While the 2,500 is relatively cheap the other penalties make this an unattractive option.

Comments?

Depends on the circumstances. A first offence is usually around 1000, plus you will also probably be banned from driving for 6-12 months. Its certainly not an option if you wish to keep driving.

Also that doesn't take into account solictors fees etc. And if you're in an accident the injured can sue you directly for injuries. Unless you're on social welfare and have no income you will probably be forced to make some compensatory payment. And you'll probably never drive again, because the premiums you'll get quoted (if at all) will make you cry.

Besides, anybody who drives without insurance in Ireland is irresponsible and stupid. Think carefully about it before you do.

Sleepy

If organised properly it could be a great form of protest. Imagine if every one of us that was sick of being ripped off just cancelled our car insurance, if half the country were driving uninsured the cops wouldn't be able to deal with it, the justice system couldn't handle the amount of cases brought and the government would be forced to do something. But, unfortunately we don't have the balls to do it so we'll continue to be screwed.

Time Man

AFAIK If you are involved in an accident and it is your fault you cannot claim for your own injuries

Originally posted by seamus
Afaik, some insurance companies won't even cover cars worth less then about €2k (I think) fully comp. I don't know why, maybe it's to stop people putting in personal injury claims when they don't get as much for their car as they thought they would.

seamus

Originally posted by Time Man
AFAIK If you are involved in an accident and it is your fault you cannot claim for your own injuries

Fully comprehensive insurance allows you to claim for any losses you make as a result of an accident, whether it's your fault or not. Policy depending, obviously.

Time Man

slightly off topic but would this be the same for extras like alloys, stereo and stuff?

seamus

Originally posted by Time Man
slightly off topic but would this be the same for extras like alloys, stereo and stuff?

I'm not sure. You'd need to declare them, and would end up paying more. Insurance companies will only replace a vehicle based on the value of a similar car, as comes from the factory. To claim for extras like alloys or tinted windows without notifying them probably won't work.

I also forgot to add that they won't cover frivilous claims like distress, personal grief etc, but they will cover things like loss of earnings, medical expenses, etc, which can easily be forged/exaggerated.

Time Man

I think they do cover distress. A number of years ago a guy I know who drove a 205 with bald tyres and no insurance crashed his car, there was 5 of them altogether in the car. Two of them were his sisters and both claimed from the MIB. But his parents also claimed for distress and got quite a large settlement. meanwhile the son who owned the car got a fine of £130

seamus

Originally posted by Time Man
I think they do cover distress. A number of years ago a guy I know who drove a 205 with bald tyres and no insurance crashed his car, there was 5 of them altogether in the car. Two of them were his sisters and both claimed from the MIB. But his parents also claimed for distress and got quite a large settlement. meanwhile the son who owned the car got a fine of £130

Third parties can claim for distress. Third party insurance covers a driver against all claims made by other people, whether they drivers or passengers in other vehicles, or passengers in his own vehicle. Fully comp simply affords the driver the ability to replace his own losses (ie his car, any time spent in hospital) in the event that he messes up.

Victor

Originally posted by seamus
I also forgot to add that they won't cover frivilous claims like distress, personal grief etc, but they will cover things like loss of earnings, medical expenses, etc, which can easily be forged/exaggerated.

Actually "distress, personal grief etc" when it reaches a medical level is one of the most expensive things insurance companies deal with as it can affect people for years.

Originally posted by Time Man
But his parents also claimed for distress and got quite a large settlement.

This would be unusual - the rule is that any cause of action should be proximate to the event and reasonably foreseeable. I don't recollect the case name, but someone committed suicide and a woman who witnessed it was shocked and had a miscarriage. The shock would have been foreseeable and therefore actionable, but the miscarriage not.

seamus

Originally posted by Victor
Actually "distress, personal grief etc" when it reaches a medical level is one of the most expensive things insurance companies deal with as it can affect people for years.

Surely an insurance company wouldn't cover a driver, even for serious psychological issues coming from a crash, under fully comprehensive insurance? Surely only third parties can be compensated in this case?

This would be unusual - the rule is that any cause of action should be proximate to the event and reasonably foreseeable. I don't recollect the case name, but someone committed suicide and a woman who witnessed it was shocked and had a miscarriage. The shock would have been foreseeable and therefore actionable, but the miscarriage not.

Interesting. What was the nature of this case? Was the woman suing over having to see a suicide, or was it just an investigation into the miscarraige?

Victor

Originally posted by seamus
Surely an insurance company wouldn't cover a driver, even for serious psychological issues coming from a crash, under fully comprehensive insurance? Surely only third parties can be compensated in this case?

Why? Should someone suffering PTSD be paid less than someone with a broken arm? It's a medical situation, it should be covered.*

Originally posted by seamus
What was the nature of this case? Was the woman suing over having to see a suicide, or was it just an investigation into the miscarraige?

I think she was suing him (or his estate, I don't recollect) for the miscarraige.

* Note some insurance, including VHI, does exclude mental health costs (but will pay for substance abuse rehab).