Any pilots on boards?

Oriel

Hi,
Just wondering if any pilots or anybody with piloting knowledge is on boards?

Thanks,
S.

Maxthedog02

Sorry for gate-crashing! Not worth starting a new thread.
How much does it cost to train to be a pilot? Or how does a person go about it, can anyone tell me.

Michelangelo

Excellent post. I really want to know this too.

xm15e3

Originally posted by Sinecure
Hi,
Just wondering if any pilots or anybody with piloting knowledge is on boards?

Thanks,
S.

I have 500 total time in single engine land. Hold US Commercial and Instructors Certs, both with instrument ratings. I've worked as an instructor only, and that was several years ago. I had to get a "real" paying job after college.

In the US, pretty much any real flying job requires about 1500 with 1000 hours multi engine time (the Holy Grail). So up to that point, aspiring pilots work as instructors..on starvation wages. An established instructor can pull in 800 hours a year, so figure 3 to 5 years flying bug smashers. Then it's off to commuters, or flying bank checks at night (in hammered old twins through squall lines).

In the US a private ticket is about $4000 now, Instrument is probably $6000 to $8000. Commercial is a cake walk after that. For comparison, an English friend thought the equivalent in the UK was another %50.

IIRC the ratings are transferable from the FAA to JAA(?). So, It might be cheaper to train in the US if you can get a visa to do so. I know of several people who did that prior to 9/11, seems like one flew for Aer Lingus (can't remember his name though).

Bluehair

Some useful info here

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&threadid=138977&highlight=commercial+pilot

and lots of useful info here

http://www.pprune.org

gerire

Hi,
Just wondering if any pilots or anybody with piloting knowledge is on boards?

Thanks,
S.

Its a bit general of a request but here's what I can give you.
Try the obvious and best option www.military.ie get paid to learn to fly and after you serve your time any airline will jump at you with years of military training. The air corps take cadets on every year usually 5 - 10 ish and competition for places is very tough.

Given 9/11 all airlines that used to recruit untrained people and train them up have stopped this practice and most have stopped recruiting in general, eg Air Lingus etc.

Failing these airlines going into this practice again the next option is to go and train privately. Weston Airodrome in Clondalkin has a few people out there who give lessons but being Ireland it is expensive. A friend of mine who got into the Air Corps but had to leave went to the states to this college: http://www.flysunrise.com/ the whole experience cost £IR 4000 including accom and travel to get his licence

Hope you can use something here failing that go for the flying in the house option here

Ger

eth0_

My brother in law is an aeronautical engineer and he was chatting to an easyjet pilot a few weeks ago, the guy used to be a shelf stacker in tesco so he could pay for his PPL, then he got his parents to re-mortgage their house so he could take the commercial licence and get all the flying hours it requires...cost him £40,000 for that. eep.

AFAIK airlines very rarely take on pilots to train up from scratch these days.

One more thing: DO YOU HAVE THE PILOT VOICE? :-)

Oriel

Originally posted by eth0_

One more thing: DO YOU HAVE THE PILOT VOICE? :-)

Roger

daveg

As I posted previously on a simular thread my GF's cousin went off to the UK to train as a pilot. Took a little over a year and cost about 20K stg. When he graduated with his licence he could not find work. Was about the time Air Lingus were laying off staff. It's now 2/3 years later and he still has got a job in aviation.

eth0_

Originally posted by daveg
As I posted previously on a simular thread my GF's cousin went off to the UK to train as a pilot. Took a little over a year and cost about 20K stg. When he graduated with his licence he could not find work. Was about the time Air Lingus were laying off staff. It's now 2/3 years later and he still has got a job in aviation.

Easyjet/mytravelite/bmi baby seem to regularly advertise for pilots...

Fionn101

Well I went off to the land of OZ to do my flight training ,

And I would definatley recommend this over learning in Europe , feel free to PM or call if you want to talk more about this(cause i'm a lazy typer) but some of the main advantages I've found are :

1) COST - oz is far far cheaper than Ireland to take lessons , the competition over there is huge so it's wise to shop around, be careful not to take lessons on cost alone , but the price difference compared to ireland makes it worthwhile

2) Traffic - I learnt to fly from Bankstown Airport in Sydney which is one of the 5 busiest airports in the southern hemisphere , great for getting to grips with traffic and comms (communications) early ,

3) Weather - when starting it's nicer to have more predictable weather (like sunny sydney) and easier flight conditions than tryign to navigate through a 'nice irish shower' type hurricane

4) Location - Bankstown in Sydney is close to everything , easy to get to and you can stay in hostels on the airport grounds

5) Australia is a great place to be and many many more reasons (once i think of them)

Have you flown before ??? I'd recommend taking a half hour lesson from Weston to get a feel for flying and also take a look at some of the theory work that's involved, it's no walk in the park

but if you think your into it then go for it , really, you'll never look back ,

If you want to take a trip out to weston drop me a line , I'm out there this Sunday to preform my first Loop (can't wait , too much combat flight sim makes me want to learn this , and you'll rarely get the chance to do this for ryanair !! )

but it will give you a nice taste for flying if you go for an intro flight , you can chat with the other pilots and they will give an accurate description of the work involved and it should only cost about 80euro for 35mins (thats flying time and includes instructors fee)

once you take to the skies you'll forever look up wanting to be there again (so some bloke said once ) and it's true enough. just nike . i mean do it

so anyway , drop a line if interested , or call weston on 6282930 and have a great flight !

Take it easy

Fionn

p.s. bring sunglasses , not only do they make you look cool but you'll be able to see where you going when your up there.

eth0_

Originally posted by Fionn101

I'm out there this Sunday to preform my first Loop (can't wait , too much combat flight sim makes me want to learn this , and you'll rarely get the chance to do this for ryanair !! )

A loop? In a 737? :-o

Fionn101

heh , no , it's an Arrow acrobatic plane that skytrace run out in weston

it's only now i see how my last post reads, but

I'm just really looking forward to giving it a go , cause I always use the loop or Immelman (lovely move) when playing Combat flight sim so this is my chance to do one

take it easy

Fionn

RicardoSmith

Originally posted by Sinecure
Hi,
Just wondering if any pilots or anybody with piloting knowledge is on boards?

Thanks,
S.

You never actually said what you wanted to know?

BTW getting into the Aer Corp is probably the hardest way to do it. Unless you have some influence or contacts there. Closed shop for the most part.

Anyone I know who is a commerical pilot either had single time as a PPL or had done instructor time and had some instrument time before getting into a airline programme. The bigger airlines don't like to take people with too many hours. Whereas the smaller operators want the opposite. People with as much experience as they can get on type.

blondie83

Originally posted by Fionn101

If you want to take a trip out to weston drop me a line , I'm out there this Sunday to preform my first Loop (can't wait , too much combat flight sim makes me want to learn this , and you'll rarely get the chance to do this for ryanair !! )

Brilliant, I'd love to try a loop. I've done about 3 or 4 hours over the past few years in Weston, you know just bday presents and things. Flying a plane is an amazing feeling, and my first take off and landing were brilliant! During my last lesson my instructor was showing me how to get out of stalls, and was putting the Katana through all sorts of manouvers, and flipping it over and everything - it was such fun!:D(he actually thoguht I was a bit starange, cos I kept going "do it again, do it again). ow much did it cost to do training in Oz? Seriously considering getting a loan, and doing the PPL this summer:ninja:

Fionn101

Well here is a link from the company I studied with ,as the prices have probably come down since I was there, they are one of the reputable companies in Sydney and have all the correct affiliations etc,

http://www.basair.com.au/information/ppl_os.shtml

they will send you out an information pack , and also you can just call them , www.basair.com.au (phone number on the site)

there is a minimum of 40hours to get your PPL , but set aside 50 hours to be on the safeside ,


getting a loan and doing them all in bulk is by far the best way , so you can group your flights, also spacing them out like once every two weeks is so unproductive.

they even have a web-cam on the control tower so your family can tune in and see you land and hear you on the radio , which is neat .

and one last thing, that katana that you flew (with aerial advertising in weston I imagine) is also capable of doing loops so ask next time your there,

anyway pm or reply here if you want to know more

Take care
Fionn

magpie

I'm out there this Sunday to preform my first Loop (can't wait , too much combat flight sim makes me want to learn this , and you'll rarely get the chance to do this for ryanair !! )

F@cking great...a Ryanair pilot who wants to do loops....

As a ryanair pilot can you confirm or deny the fact the ryanair flights take off and land at much steeper angles than aer lingus in order to save on fuel costs? Or are all the pilots gung ho after playing F-15 simulators?

Another question, why do they put life jackets in aeroplanes? Suely there wouldn't be much left of a 747 after hitting the sea at 600 mph, even if one of the wing tips doesn't hit the water and cartwheel it. Surely parachutes would be more useful?

WHY NO PARACHUTES?

God, I hate flying...

damnyanks

So pilots have to fund there own training pretty much ? Why is there such uproar over airhostes having to pay 3 - 4k at ryanair to get their training done ?

blondie83

Thanks for the link Fionn, definitely going to have a look into that I think! Mmmm the thoughts of spending the Summer in warm sunny Australia learning how to fly:D Just need to find the money now! Oh and damnyanks, most airlines will actually train pilots from scratch, but it's very hard to get onto the program. You have more of a chance I think, if you have training yourself.:ninja:

RicardoSmith

Originally posted by damnyanks
So pilots have to fund there own training pretty much ? Why is there such uproar over airhostes having to pay 3 - 4k at ryanair to get their training done ?

Because it takes you 2 years to make it back it their salaries...

RicardoSmith

Originally posted by magpie
F@cking great...a Ryanair pilot who wants to do loops....

As a ryanair pilot can you confirm or deny the fact the ryanair flights take off and land at much steeper angles than aer lingus in order to save on fuel costs? Or are all the pilots gung ho after playing F-15 simulators?

Another question, why do they put life jackets in aeroplanes? Suely there wouldn't be much left of a 747 after hitting the sea at 600 mph, even if one of the wing tips doesn't hit the water and cartwheel it. Surely parachutes would be more useful?

WHY NO PARACHUTES?

God, I hate flying...

An airliner will glide. Steeply yes but it will glide. Its possible to land an aircraft on water and have the people survive. It is very hard though, and the sea would have to quite calm. A 747 wouldn't be able to do 600mph at sea level, or at any level come to that. It would be landing at a lot slower speed. Probably around 150mph. Though I don't know exactly. The odds of all four engines failing are very slim, though it has happened, but all four engines restarted in the air.

Why no Parachutes? Because as far as I know an airliner is flying too fast for you to jump from it. The airflow stops you. Which is why most jet fighter have ejection seats. Generally your flying too high to breath either. I think you only breath below 10,000ft and airliners are at 20-35k.

Best to think of the airplane as a big glider.

damnyanks

Originally posted by RicardoSmith
Because it takes you 2 years to make it back it their salaries...

But wouldnt the hostest as well ? Training was 3k'ish ? Pilots seem to cost a fair bit more hten that but get payed more. Would they be about even when compared with training:salary ?

RicardoSmith

Originally posted by damnyanks
But wouldnt the hostest as well ? Training was 3k'ish ? Pilots seem to cost a fair bit more hten that but get payed more. Would they be about even when compared with training:salary ?

It cost about 200-300K to train an airliner pilot and put him on line. His salary would be anywhere from 30K-100K. I don't think you can compare that with a stewardess or steward would be on 20-30k and their training would probably cost about 3-4K I would expect.

Capt'n Midnight

Originally posted by eth0_
A loop? In a 737? :-o

Shoulda gone to Aer Lingus - one of their pilots was allowed to barrel roll a 737 a couple of years back at an airshow (fairyhouse ??)

RE: parachutes = extra weight. - a guestimate would be 5-10% less passangers if they had chutes and they could only be used in a few situatitions requiring the plane to continue flying in a resonably controlled manner until everyone had evacuated. About the only one that springs to mind is the JAL 747 with the tailplane cracked off - but they say that it could have landed in the sea if the pilot had been more willing to accept failure instead of trying to land it normally.

RicardoSmith

Originally posted by Capt'n Midnight
Shoulda gone to Aer Lingus - one of their pilots was allowed to barrel roll a 737 a couple of years back at an airshow (fairyhouse ??)

LOL

Fionn101

you said

can you confirm or deny the fact the ryanair flights take off and land at much steeper angles than aer lingus in order to save on fuel costs

---

heh , this is not true, i'm sure it's urban legend , but your partly correct.

When we are out training in the Cessna 172 (4 seater plane) we will take off at about 55knots , but if we are carrying passengers then we will take off at 70 knots.
because it is more comfortable for passengers if they merely glide out at a shallow angle (remember they feel pitch changes a lot more than up front) . Whereas you can get airbourne at 55knts but only if everyone on board is used to the steeper angle (steeper angle of climb = lower climb speed), so in training both the instructor and pilot will Rotate (thats take-off to you and me) at 55knts cause they can.


During take off The angle of attack depends on wind speed , you just go to whatever angle you can climb out at 70knts(again , ths is trainer aircraft,much faster on a boeing etc). so if the wind is stronger you may climb out on a shallower angle but theres not much in the difference tbh, you just want to keep your passengers comfortable.

Also it is entirely possible to land on water , ya just do it slower and hope the waters calm and the sharks have already eaten.

There's no parachutes cause there's no point , it's safer to stay on the plane , multi engine failures are rare cause systems are run in parallel , not series.

hmm maybe a flying forum is in order ???

take it easy

Fionn

RicardoSmith

One thread does not require a seperate forum.

Fionn101

this isn't the only thread on the subject though , and there seems to be a lot of interest

google before ya post (search first)

but thanks for the comment

take it easy

fionn

RicardoSmith

Google on what?

Fionn101

it's a figure of speech , i meant that there are a few threads on flying now , searching will show them

But I doubt it will spawn a new forum , especially since you need mods and a show of interest etc.

So have you thought about learning to fly ??

and does anyone know if there are internet cafe's that would install a game on request ? such as combat FS etc for multiplayer and the like

actally i think i'll take the next questions over to LAN games

take care

Fionn

RicardoSmith

I was wondering how you'd use google to search the boards. Why not just use the boards own search facility?

I've a few friends who are commercial pilots one of which has his own plane. hes always at me to go for spin. Literally. Personally I've never had the time or money to devote to it. Loved to have been a pilot though.

You really need a decent joystick for a flight sim. Do you get those in Cafes? I've played mutliplayer a few times but I've a poor 56k line so unless its a lan game I don't bother. Usually its bring your machine to a mates house.

damnyanks

Originally posted by RicardoSmith
It cost about 200-300K to train an airliner pilot and put him on line. His salary would be anywhere from 30K-100K. I don't think you can compare that with a stewardess or steward would be on 20-30k and their training would probably cost about 3-4K I would expect.

This is what I mean. There seems to be uproar over an air steward having to pay a fraction of their yearly salary to train. Where as a pilto would almost have to get a morgage to pay for theres.

RicardoSmith

Well I think most people would have a problem with having to pay for their own training. Soon we'll have to pay just work.

ArphaRima

but theres not much in the difference tbh, you just want to keep your passengers comfortable

In a light aircraft it would be true enough. But mainly because the weight will not vary wildly. A commercial airliners handling and flight characteristics vary significantly depending on the load, and the distribution of this load. Takeoff and landing speeds will vary by as much as 40 knots. But that isnt the question being asked.

Try these for flight training information. Amongst the top flight training centres.
http://www.flighttrainingeurope.com/

http://www.oxfordaviation.net/

BTW getting into the Aer Corp is probably the hardest way to do it. Unless you have some influence or contacts there. Closed shop for the most part.

Anything but closed shop. I think you'll find that fierce competition for entry into any flight courses would make any contacts useless. Only those entering on their own merits will get it in general.

Oriel

Eeek, sorry, forgot about this thread
I was mainly going to ask about the full sponsorship courses that some places do.
I'm beginning to give up on the idea now. It's something I'd love to do, but I simply don't have £50,000 knowing about. Might check down the back of the sofa though...

I'm starting to think about the military route, but I'm not so keen on joining them.

PhoenixRising

The only sponsorship programs run in Ireland are run by Aer Lingus and the Aer Corps. Aer Lingus have pilot recruitment on hold at present and it's not clear whether they will ever run a sponsorship scheme again. So in summary, the Aer Corps is the only pilot sponsorship scheme at present. They take on cadets every year or so I think.

RicardoSmith

Originally posted by fluffer
....
Anything but closed shop. I think you'll find that fierce competition for entry into any flight courses would make any contacts useless. Only those entering on their own merits will get it in general.

I think who you know makes a difference. But you have to be at the top of the bunch for sure.

Bluehair

Originally posted by PhoenixRising
Aer Lingus have pilot recruitment on hold at present and it's not clear whether they will ever run a sponsorship scheme again.

Highly unlikely they'll ever do it again (read; fugetaboutit). Real shame but thats the business these days.

Overall a career that can be rewarding but given the challenges (both financial and personal) you really really really need to want it.

RicardoSmith

I'd say its moving to contract pilots

CaptainSmith

Yea another pilot here, also big in the behind the scenes stuff, thats why you never see my real name, lmao!

Moi: Bravo November Alpha Request Touch And Go Runway 28 With Short Finals

TWR: Cleared To Touch And Go, Watch The Spire On Short Finals

Moi: Watched, But Not Missed

TWR: In that case, take RWY 34, you wont have to use your wings anymore, if they are left...

Someday I will mess up!

CaptainSmith

Oh yea on the steeper takeoff's etc. Both airlines use the same fuel (within reason), I need to be careful what I say unless the Airbus lovers kill me, but Boeing's just fly like that, beautiful isn't it!

Galileo

CaptainSmith is some sort of spoofer. If you were low enough ( and lost enough ) for the spire or any object with the earth attached to be a factor a runway change would seem an unlikely solution.

Boeing and Airbus and indeed any aircraft will descend on the set profile for the approach to a given runway. It is almost always at 3 degrees.

Ryanair do some things different but not that.

Sonnenblumen

And what about Tom Petty, ain't got no wings but learning to fly? Ambitious or what.

Roger That.:cool:

barry75

yea another pilot here without a flying Job!!

I trained for my PPL in Australia

After that went to Oxford Aviation and went a did a modular course passed my CPL/IR and all 14 atpl subject

Went and did my MCC course at parc aviation on the B737-200

Sent out loads of CV's

No luck so far:(

Anyone else out there in the same boat??

ArphaRima

You've gotta get out there on the phone. Plenty of opportunities out there. You'll have to sell your soul for the first 500 hours. Work in Asia, Middle East, cheap carriers in Europe (pretty much till command).
A type rating is perhaps your next investment (I recommend A320 if possible, though B737 is just as useful). PARC Aviation I'm sure have schemes for your predicament. Talk to them. I know some agencies charge a nominal (though huge) amount and guarantee employment afterwards.

If Im not mistaken Emirates and Qatar Airways had a direct entry low-time entry scheme about 2 years ago. Perhaps they still do. PM for info if you like.

Bluehair

fluffer wrote:

Plenty of opportunities out there. You'll have to sell your soul for the first 500 hours.

Best quote i've seen in relation to this industry! A lot of people expect to walk into the right hand seat of a jet but especially these days it's just not that easy.

Back up those cvs with loads of phonecalls and networking Barry75 and most importantly stay current. Instructing, dropping skydivers, etc whatever it takes. Good luck you'll find something that pays to fly eventually.

Preset No.3

Cant find a flying job? With the amount of people leaving Ryanair and Cityjet everyday? Ryanair will take you on with 200 hours. I believe at one stage they had aircraft grounded because they couldnt get the pilots. Thats one of the reasons they use Eirjet. According to my friends in the business, Ryanair are crying out for piots, especially type rated. You could easily do a conversion from 73 classic to the NG.

Naked Lepper

gerire wrote:

Weston Airodrome in Clondalkin has a few people out there who give lessons but being Ireland it is expensive. [/URL]

Ger

Weston is in leixlip

Baldonnell is in lucan

TempestSabre

Preset No.3 wrote:

Cant find a flying job? With the amount of people leaving Ryanair and Cityjet everyday? Ryanair will take you on with 200 hours. I believe at one stage they had aircraft grounded because they couldnt get the pilots. Thats one of the reasons they use Eirjet. According to my friends in the business, Ryanair are crying out for piots, especially type rated. You could easily do a conversion from 73 classic to the NG.

Thats strange, I've heard thats its hard to get a flying job from my firends in the business. Ditto on Prune. Mind you I wasn't really paying that much attention as they drone on and one about it.

grahamb

Hi All,

New to the Forum. Lovin the topic. Ive done quite a few lessons in weston leixlip. wouldnt have the money to follow it up really. Im doing lessons every second to third week not worth a toss. Ive a close friend whos a pilot (captin) for Ryanair and hes full of encouragement when it comes to getting my ppl....wish he was forthcoming with a loan as well tho.

Preset No.3

Just off the MSN to a mate of mine of Cityjet. He still says theres loads of jobs going in Ryan and the likes. Another couple of instructors have recently left for the White house. It is possible to get the call from the Ryans but be prepared to be based anyway in Europe. Ah the price you will pay to drive a shiny new 738. EI are taking back all of their cadets from pre 911, then they are looking for Driect Entry, a first for them! It looks like they will need 300 new pilots over the next 2 years.