Do publicans have a point?

star gazer

The price of drink has increased a lot in the last few years and the price of pubs themselves has increased enormously, however, the cost of public liability insurance has shot up and the cost of wages has gone up with the minimum wage (about to be) over seven euros. It costs money to run a pub, so shouldn't we give them a break?

Ripwave

Originally posted by star gazer
The price of drink has increased a lot in the last few years and the price of pubs themselves has increased enormously,

And why do you think the price of pubs has shot up? It must be because it's so hard to make a profit as a publican. NOT!

John R

No, they are completely pointless people. Second in line after the lawyers imho

Stark

The profits being made by publicans are criminal. No justification for increasing their prices.

Sleipnir

"Rising costs" is always given as the reason for obscenely priced drink.
Let's say the cost of public liability dropped by 50% next year.
Would we see a drop in the price of drink?
Would we hell.

Plus, there is the huge differences in prices from one pub to the next.
It could be anything up to a euro more expensive between two different pubs close to each other.
Could you say that the cost differences between the two pubs are 1 euro PER DRINK more expensive?!?!?!?

No, they're ripping us off and they are a greedy, thieving bunch of ****s.

SheroN

imagine people running a business trying to make the biggest profit they can.

Stark

Well competition is one of the rules of business. It seems strange that we could have 10 pubs on a street, yet they don't drag each other's prices down. It's like the way HMV/Virgin never seem to compete with each other. It's obvious there's price-fixing going on (as evidenced by the cd-wow case). I'd imagine there's a good deal of price-fixing going on in the pub trade as well (thank you vinters association).

Tommy Vercetti

Originally posted by Sleipnir
No, they're ripping us off and they are a greedy, thieving bunch of ****s.

And we just let them :mad:

thecivvie

Originally posted by Tommy Vercetti
And we just let them :mad:

Given that to compete you would need to buy up two licences, then you would have to cover that cost.

Sean
NOt a publician (wish I were)

Mighty_Mouse

Are you completley demented. your talking about the vitners cartel here:eek:

bonkey

Originally posted by Sleipnir
"Rising costs" is always given as the reason for obscenely priced drink.
Let's say the cost of public liability dropped by 50% next year.
Would we see a drop in the price of drink?
Would we hell.

This reminds me of coffee. About 6 years ago, there was a massive increase (25%, IIRC) in the price of coffee because one or two of the most major coffe-growing regions in the world suffered almost total crop failure.

Seemed reasonable....especially when couched in the logic that the price increase was to pay the farmers more per kilo so that they wouldn't go out of business.

The following year was a bumper crop. Did the prices come down? Not a chance.

jc

El_MUERkO

My old local The Gravediggers in glasnevin charges me up too €2 less a pint compared to some places in town, now they may have more staff, they may have higher costs but they also have more customers and cover charges and crisps you need to take a mortage out too buy.

Mighty_Mouse

Realistically (and still making a huge profit) the price of a pint everywhere should be around €3 max.

sovtek

The argument about taxes and their "rising costs" has been debunked many times over.
Price of drink rose the DAY dual pricing ended (March 2002). And all pubs at the same time is telling re. the price fixing argument.
The only thing that will bring prices down is legislation that ends the cartel.
Firstly the licensing would have to be de-regulated to allow anyone to purchase one.
Secondly the Vintners Assoc needs to be investigated and action taken against them for price fixing.
Thirdly allowing 24 drinking would also contribute to lower prices.
Pricing display needs to be enforced as well as "after hours" pricing stopped.
And yes publicans will cease to be millionares and have to sell their holiday homes in the Canaries and Spain.

sovtek

Originally posted by bonkey
This reminds me of coffee. About 6 years ago, there was a massive increase (25%, IIRC) in the price of coffee because one or two of the most major coffe-growing regions in the world suffered almost total crop failure.

Seemed reasonable....especially when couched in the logic that the price increase was to pay the farmers more per kilo so that they wouldn't go out of business.

The following year was a bumper crop. Did the prices come down? Not a chance.

jc

Considering that the coffee growing nations get around €.05 on the €1 compared to the coffee retailing nations. As posted in the Politics/GM crops thread.

sovtek

Originally posted by Sleipnir
Plus, there is the huge differences in prices from one pub to the next.
It could be anything up to a euro more expensive between two different pubs close to each other.
]

Then consider that those two pubs are more than likely owned by the same scumbag.

Drag em out into the street's like they used to.

sovtek

Originally posted by SheroN
imagine people running a business trying to make the biggest profit they can.

Making an honest profit and a catel cornering the market are two different things.
One is honest business practice, the other is extortion.

Johnny Versace

I seriously despise publicans, but no one is forcing us to drink in the rip off pubs. They only get away with it because we let them.

It's a big problem in Ireland - we never do anything about anything. We just bend over and take it... This disturbs me because our history is based on us NOT putting up with this kind of ****. I don't know what's gone wrong.

Walter Ego

Originally posted by Johnny Versace
I seriously despise publicans, but no one is forcing us to drink in the rip off pubs.

You can't force me to drink. I'm a volunteer.:p

seamus

Deregulation is probably about the only thing which could successfully bring down prices at this point. Of course, that brings its own evils. A bit like the taxi deregulation, you would then have some big players with even more licences, making more money, while the honest joe (admittedly very rare in the vitner's association) has to work twice as hard to make the same money.

IMO though, overall it would benefit the consumer. I would be of the opinion that the price of alcohol plays a significant part of inflation in the Irish economy (I can't afford to go drinking anymore, I need a pay raise. I can't afford to raise his pay, I'll have to raise my prices, etc etc), so lowering the cost of alcohol would have significant repurcussions and benefits in lowering overall costs and improving the value we get for our euros.

Pure theory tbh

Typedef

Funnily enough.

The term 'boycotting' was coined... in fact, originates from Ireland.
I'm sure you've all done your 5th year history.

It's true though, nobody is making you pay that money.
You the punter are willingly parting with your cash, then complaining about the price.

Don't like the price? Don't buy the pint ... simple.
Eventually, either you'll break or the publican will lower his prices.

sovtek

Originally posted by Typedef
Don't like the price? Don't buy the pint ... simple.
Eventually, either you'll break or the publican will lower his prices.

That breaks down, though, when virtually every publican is in an organization that sets out to keep prices artificially high. Making the reality that there is no choice.
I've noticed anytime one pub in Dublin raise their prices, everyone else does too and I'm not talking about when there is a rise in tax.

Typedef

True enough, there's a cartel in operation.

The fact of a cartel, is that it only exists, because there is a demand for it's product and customers willing to pay it's prices, remove either or and the entire premise for a cartel's stranglehold abates.

star gazer

originally posted by Typedef
The fact of a cartel, is that it only exists, because there is a demand for it's product and customers willing to pay it's prices, remove either or and the entire premise for a cartel's stranglehold abates.

Until the last two customers decide they are not going to spend their money, there will be a reason for a cartel to continue, whether they cooperate in lowering their prices or raising their prices they will do the most to maximise their profits. Through cooperation pubs can get more out of customers than by competing. Pricing strategies vary greatly depending on which route is chosen. Ok licensing does immediately give some aspects of a cartel, limiting the number of entrants, but there are other ways of cooperating which shouldn't happen.

I don't think consumers can boycot the entire industry, we don't want to give up that part of our social lives.

I think publicans should have understood the concept that if they up their prices, doctors up their prices, supermarkets up their prices and so on, we all end up paying more for living in this country. Their profits won't go as far as they thought and keep fleecing the consumer and eventually the consumer will say stop.

d4r3n

sometimes pub prices are a joke but sometimes they're understandable.

some places keep their prices a little above normal to keep the scum out, typical knackers with the "its 20c cheaper in the other pub" attitude.

LFCFan

no amount of excuses can excuse the extortionate prices they charge for soft drinks and water. I've seen one place charge €3 for a can ok coke, ie. €6 for a pint of coke. How in the name of god can they charge €6 for a pint of coke. Publicans are a joke. I don't drink in the big pubs anymore. I stick to an 'Auld Mans' pub and the drink is nicer, the prices is lower and the atmosphere is a hell of a lot better.

sovtek

Originally posted by d4r3n
sometimes pub prices are a joke but sometimes they're understandable.

some places keep their prices a little above normal to keep the scum out, typical knackers with the "its 20c cheaper in the other pub" attitude.

Funny I though that was just smart consumer awareness.
I guess I'm a knacker then.
Unfortunetly there seems to be this Victorian attitude towards what consitutes "class" in this country and that if you aren't being ripped off in the pub then it must be a "dodgy" place for "scumbags".
I often have to battle it out with my Irish friends because they seem to not care so much about how they are being ripped off but how many shiny things a pub has to have before it's deemed "atmosphere".

sovtek

Originally posted by Typedef
True enough, there's a cartel in operation.

The fact of a cartel, is that it only exists, because there is a demand for it's product and customers willing to pay it's prices, remove either or and the entire premise for a cartel's stranglehold abates.

True but it's not a realistic option.
Being that the pub has been a social centre of Irish life for hundreds of years.
Realistically the government should intervene because the situation is most definetly being taken advantage of to the detriment of the society as a whole.

Urban Weigl

Originally posted by sovtek
but how many shiny things a pub has to have before it's deemed "atmosphere".

I love shiny things! Sorry, I could not resist. Shiny things are good.

Paddy20

This is Mafia Ireland we are on about, where in reality Publicans, Drinks Wholesalers, and the Vintners are all legally pushing a highly addictive killer drug.

Drink has been the scourge of the working classes for hundreds of years and it suits the haves too maintain the status quo. Where people must earn a living to buy a drug that stops them from stopping the racket.

In my home town there are over 30 Public houses. Population around 2,000. Clearly something is not right.

Is it any wonder that pot smoking is becoming increasingly popular amongst the younger generation.

What to do. I dunno :dunno:

P. :ninja:

ct5amr2ig1nfhp

Drink prices in Ireland are outrageous. There is no way in hell that publicans can justify the high prices. Especially on soft drinks! A can of coke in the pub is about e2.50 (and that’s the lower end!). When next door its e0.80 (in the shop).

ambrose

Ripwave

Originally posted by kingambrose
When next door its e0.80 (in the shop).

Even that's a ripoff. The supermarket sells a 6 pack of cans for less that 50c each.

Stark

I stick to an 'Auld Mans' pub and the drink is nicer, the prices is lower

Yeah it seems the quality of the drink is inversely proportional to the price. The big places charge you a fiver for a flat headless pint, whereas you can get a lovely smooth pint in an "old man's" pub for cheaper. It seems pint-pulling is becoming a lost art, I go into more and more places where they literally just dump the drink into the glass then scoop off the crap that bubbles up instead of taking it slowly, tilting the glass right etc.

sovtek

Originally posted by Urban Weigl
I love shiny things! Sorry, I could not resist. Shiny things are good.

sovtek

Originally posted by k.oriordan
Yeah it seems the quality of the drink is inversely proportional to the price.

Yeah! I remember a few years ago that most people would send a bad pint back. Now I never see it happen.

Sleepy

Originally posted by sovtek
Yeah! I remember a few years ago that most people would send a bad pint back. Now I never see it happen.

Come drink with me some time.

Now theres an idea, a boards bar crawl where we target the crappest pubs in Dublin and give back any sub-standard pint. Hit the publicans' pockets for a changeww)

ven0m

Is it my imagination or are pubs REQUIRED by licensing laws to clearly display the prices of their drinks either outside their establishment or in clear view inside? I'm almost certain I heard this law being introduced & I've yet to find a pub across dublin/kildare that does this.......


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vinnyfitz

Originally posted by TheSilverSurfer
Is it my imagination or are pubs REQUIRED by licensing laws to clearly display the prices of their drinks either outside their establishment or in clear view inside? I'm almost certain I heard this law being introduced & I've yet to find a pub across dublin/kildare that does this.......

This is absolutely compulsory. Most pubs do do it. If you find a pub that does not post its prices you shold definitely report it.

From Director Consumer Affairs website: Pubs/Hotels The Retail Price (Beverages in Licensed Premises) Display Order, (S.I. No.263 of 1999), repealed the 1976 Beverages in Licensed Premises Order and came into operation on 15th September 1999. The purpose of the Order is to enable customers to be aware of drink prices in licensed premises.

What are the specific obligations on publicans under the legislation?

The Order requires that a Comprehensive List and a 16 Item list are displayed;

Comprehensive List: A Comprehensive list indicating the price of all drinks sold on the premises should be on display within each drinking area on the premises* and should be clearly visible and easily read. *(this means that the list must be on display in the bar, lounge, nightclub etc.)

16-item List: The legislation requires that publicans display a "16 item" list which details the prices of the more popular drinks. This list should be on display immediately outside or immediately inside each entrance to a licensed premises. N.B. As a rule of thumb, if the display is not outside, it should be capable of being read having taken one step inside the premises.

If the same premises has a bar, a lounge and a nightclub, each charging different prices ?

The price list displayed in each part of the premises must relate to the prices in that part of the premises.

If a licensed premises' policy is to increase prices after a certain time (e.g. after 11pm) ?

The price on display should be the price that is being charged at any given time.

Are Off-Licences covered by this legislation ?

No. However, general price display legislation does cover off-licences.