Bush to visit Ireland in June

egan007

Dunno if this was posted yesterday...

Bush to visit Ireland in June
Irish indo Wednesday February 25th 2004

The US President George W Bush will visit Ireland in June. The government has confirmed that the Mr Bush will attend an EU-US summit on the 25th and 26th of June. The location of the meeting is yet to be decided it will be announced in the coming weeks. The meeting will involve the Taoiseach, President Bush, European Commission President Romano Prodi, Foreign Affairs Minister Brian Cowen, and EU foreign affairs commission Javier Solano.

ixoy

Oh yay! My hero is coming! I've so many gushing things to say to him. I must tell him much I support his latest facist attempt to reword his nation's constitution to forbid myself ever having the opportunity to marry a potential lover. We may not have gay marriages in Ireland, but at least we're not led by some militant Christian fundamentalist who seeks to permanently deny any such possiblity.

gandalf

Hmmm must book some time off so I can attend whatever protests are going to happen.

Another waste of Irish resources by Bertie trying to get a popularity boast before the next election and the same for Bush with the Presidential election. How many hospital beds is a visit by Baby Bush worth !!!

Gandalf.

egan007

if anyone knows of an organised protest then please post on boards

I'm buying eggs today so they will be nice and rotten by june - one rotten egg deserves another

vorbis

ioxy why blame Bush if you couldn't get married here either? Honestly thats just blind hatred against him. Grow up a bit.

Beruthiel

did you see Bertie on the telly last night saying he hoped there would be no protests
read rage to a bull as far as I'm concerned

Gandalf, I shall also be booking some time, we will go for our usual 'after protest drinks'

ixoy

Originally posted by vorbis
ioxy why blame Bush if you couldn't get married here either? Honestly thats just blind hatred against him. Grow up a bit.

I already said why - he wants to ammend the constitution to specifically forbid gay marriage. He's going back socially speaking. Ireland is not and - if I remember - the constitution does not define marriage as between a man and a woman. Therefore, that's a blatant difference, which means it's far from blind hatred.

aidan_walsh

Originally posted by ixoy
I already said why - he wants to ammend the constitution to specifically forbid gay marriage. He's going back socially speaking. Ireland is not and - if I remember - the constitution does not define marriage as between a man and a woman. Therefore, that's a blatant difference, which means it's far from blind hatred.

I was already in a full discussion on this the day after the State of the Union, and the conclusions reached are though the legislative gay-bashing that is writing a ban on gay marriages into the Constitution hasn't yet happened... The current laws prohibiting such marriages are protected by the Constitution of the US, specifically Article IV...

Section 1. Full faith and credit shall be given in each state to the public acts, records, and judicial proceedings of every other state. And the Congress may by general laws prescribe the manner in which such acts, records, and proceedings shall be proved, and the effect thereof.

Basically this means that it is up to the individual states to enact laws, but Congress is able to determine what laws are enforced, i.e. federal law. And, unfortunatly, the terms marriage and spouce are covered by federal law. The Defence of Marriage Act 1996, signed into power by Clinton, ""provides that no State shall be required to give effect to a law of any other State with respect to a same-sex 'marriage.' [It also] defines the words 'marriage' and 'spouse' for purposes of Federal law." [Source]

Now that the terms "marriage " and "spouce" have been defined, all states are bound by federal law to recognise these definitions as the only ones...

ReefBreak

By far, the worst part of this visit will be listening to the endless moaning and whining by people like Richard Boyd-Barrett and his (anti-american/marxist) ilk for months and months before he arrives.

Although granted, there's no doubt this is nothing more than a cynical Irish-American vote-grabbing excercise for Dubya. Hopefully, it won't have any affect and he'll be out after the next election.

swiss

A visit by Bush to Ireland - just before his re-election bid?

Call me cynical, but I see this move as being somewhat self servile. Given that there is a significant 'Irish' vote in the US, I wouldn't be surprised if this was an attempt to garner that vote.

In relation to Berties comments that he hoped this wouldn't be used as an opportunity to protest, due to the nature of the visit, I would hope that he is simply deluded as to the import of such protests. People aren't protesting against EU - US co-operation. People are protesting against the knee jerk unilateral policies that the US appears to be taking towards perceived threats, as exemplified by the situation in Iraq.

So much for being a man in touch with the people :rolleyes:.

bug

dont worry bertie will close off the entirity of Dublins City centre for two days so none of us can get to work or move around, we'll probably have to protest about six miles from the city centre. :mad: :rolleyes:

BuffyBot

did you see Bertie on the telly last night saying he hoped there would be no protests

I really, really, really can't stress how much I hope there will be protests!!

Beruthiel

Originally posted by BuffyBot
I really, really, really can't stress how much I hope there will be protests!!

time to start a boards day out campaign??

sovtek

Crap....sorry I'm leaving in April...gonna miss the fun.
Watch out for the ID-less riot squad.

dahamsta

Originally posted by Beruthiel
time to start a boards day out campaign??

Call it a Boards Beer, you'll prolly get more people there. And don't anyone tell the Socialist Workers Party, I don't want their banners anywhere /near/ me.

adam

Ronika

Goddammit, I'll be in Ibiza that week!!!!!!!!!!! Why couldn't he come a week earlier so I could join the protest:mad:

TomF

Look for tourism from the U.S.A. to Ireland to drop precipitously right after the orgy of protesting and general America-hating that erupts here during Bush's visit and after all that hits the U.S. media.

Sparks

Originally posted by TomF
Look for tourism from the U.S.A. to Ireland to drop precipitously right after the orgy of protesting and general America-hating that erupts here during Bush's visit and after all that hits the U.S. media.

I was wondering how long it'd take before someone said that protesting the decisions of one small group of less than a dozen people made you an avowed racist enemy of over 250 million other people, who those dozen people are busy killing, robbing and oppressing. (Oppressing? Well, what other verb denotes the reduction of civil rights, the threats to change the constitution to prevent a large minority of them from getting married, and the other patriot-act-like actions we've seen in the states in the last two years?)

I doubt that protests which might get fleeting coverage on the U.S networks would mark the minds of the mainly Irish Americans to such an extent that they would stop coming here.

U.S and particularly Irish U.S would have a fleeting memory of the protests if any memory at all.


Now who is putting the protest beers thread up on the boards events board? I'll attend same

Incidently someone made the point in the after hours thread that the U.S was always disliked-I disagree, this country practically closed down on the day of mourning, the friday after september 11th

And Clinton got huge crowds out in Welcome for his visits.
Hell even Ronald Reagan got the crowds out and JFK certainly did!

No the depopularisation of America here and to be more precise specifically the U.S government is down Solely from what I can see to the actions of Dubya and co.

sovtek

Originally posted by doodle_sketch
I was already in a full discussion on this the day after the State of the Union, and the conclusions reached are though the legislative gay-bashing that is writing a ban on gay marriages into the Constitution hasn't yet happened... The current laws prohibiting such marriages are protected by the Constitution of the US, specifically Article IV...



Basically this means that it is up to the individual states to enact laws, but Congress is able to determine what laws are enforced, i.e. federal law. And, unfortunatly, the terms marriage and spouce are covered by federal law. The Defence of Marriage Act 1996, signed into power by Clinton, ""provides that no State shall be required to give effect to a law of any other State with respect to a same-sex 'marriage.' [It also] defines the words 'marriage' and 'spouse' for purposes of Federal law." [Source]

Now that the terms "marriage " and "spouce" have been defined, all states are bound by federal law to recognise these definitions as the only ones...

And it's all irrelevant because it's quite obviously a violation of the Constitution and the rights described in it that extend to all human beings.

sovtek

Originally posted by TomF
Look for tourism from the U.S.A. to Ireland to drop precipitously right after the orgy of protesting and general America-hating that erupts here during Bush's visit and after all that hits the U.S. media.

That's already happened because of the extortion from Irish business and government.
Nevermind that your stated reason for it is a red herring.
Yes yes yes I hate myself so much I'm going to go out and protest against myself.

pencil

I for one an delighted he's coming, ranting at the girlfriend and TV at the lunacy of his entire presidency is losing its appeal, now I get to a satisfying day out and a healthy walk to boot.

Role on June - now what specific statement to make about his self-serving undemocratic idiotic policies on my placard? - if only I had a thousand arms!

Berties comment about hoping people wouldn't protest was the strangest and MOST HOPEFUL piece of twisted logic I've ever heard.

>> time to start a boards day out campaign??

You said it.

sovtek

Originally posted by Earthman
Incidently someone made the point in the after hours thread that the U.S was always disliked-I disagree, this country practically closed down on the day of mourning, the friday after september 11th

And the American companies over here made everybody work.

"Everyone get back to work" - George W Bush

No the depopularisation of America here and to be more precise specifically the U.S government is down Solely from what I can see to the actions of Dubya and co.

No NO No blah blah blah...fingers in my ears...i can't hear you.

thesecret7

Bertie Ahern has no right to hold the meeting here in Ireland. It should be held in Brussels..... George Bush go home !! We dont want **** like that coming over!!
End the illegal occupation of the West Bank Gaza and Golan heights!!

Sand

Hopefully theyll have the meeting in Donegal or somewhere equally remote so as to ensure the peaceful protestors can peacefully protest somewhere nice and peaceful and not intefere with peoples every day lives. After that, who cares:|

Cork

Originally posted by thesecret7
Bertie Ahern has no right to hold the meeting here in Ireland. It should be held in Brussels..... George Bush go home !! We dont want **** like that coming over!!
End the illegal occupation of the West Bank Gaza and Golan heights!!

In a country that has suffered because of car bombs - you forget to mention suicide bombers.

gandalf

Originally posted by Sand
Hopefully theyll have the meeting in Donegal or somewhere equally remote so as to ensure the peaceful protestors can peacefully protest somewhere nice and peaceful and not intefere with peoples every day lives. After that, who cares:|

Yeah Donegal would be cool haven't been there in ages

We could make it a boards day out with sandwiches and Thermos flasks

Gandalf.

thesecret7

In a country that has suffered because of car bombs - you forget to mention suicide bombers.

And I forgot the killing of INNOCENT CIVILIANS BY THE self styled ISRAELI DEFENCE FORCE or all the maiming and killing of inncocent people in South Lebannon by Israel and its proxy forces

YAnky go home and bring those peace loving

Yeah Donegal would be cool haven't been there in agesWe could make it a boards day out with sandwiches and Thermos flasksGandalf.

hippies with you....


Ireland doesnt need this summit, we cant be linked to International terrorism by foreign states like the USA and Israel.

we dont need those hippies either!! All that negative publlicity will damage our economy

gandalf

Originally posted by thesecret7
we dont need those hippies either!! All that negative publlicity will damage our economy

Actually I think you'll find that the present government are doing a bang up job of damaging our economy quite nicely by themselves.

Also don't call me a hippy again I am far from it

Gandalf.

Memnoch

i begin to wonder whats the point of protesting other than to vent our frustration. It seems that governments these days completely ignore the wishes of their populace, eg. Blair retard boy in the UK. Why not just vote Bertie out? That would be the way to teach a lesson to politicians.

Sand

i begin to wonder whats the point of protesting other than to vent our frustration. It seems that governments these days completely ignore the wishes of their populace, eg. Blair retard boy in the UK. Why not just vote Bertie out? That would be the way to teach a lesson to politicians.

You see thats a solution - when it comes to election time vote for someone else. Elections are where politicans pay a lot of attention to the wishes of their populace.

But protesting is easier - you show up for the one day, say "boooo, down with that sort of thing" and then go home and forget about it. Hell, you can even make a day of it.

Unfortunately protests arent elections so even a hundred thousand protestors = 0 votes.

So youre right, all its good for is venting frustration.

bonkey

Is my memory failing me, or did Ireland state that it wouldn't host certain events during its EU presidency because the security cost would be too high given the alleged risks of terrorism?????

Nice to see that such concerns went out the window once a bigger target wanted to come here instead.

jc

kiffer

Originally posted by bonkey
Is my memory failing me, or did Ireland state that it wouldn't host certain events during its EU presidency because the security cost would be too high given the alleged risks of terrorism?????

Nice to see that such concerns went out the window once a bigger target wanted to come here instead.

jc

The americans bring their own security.
I really dont hthink that they would let us plan security for them... it'll be snipers on ever roof in dublin and SS men al over the place trying to look like deaf tourists with flesh coloured hearing aids. muttering in to their wrists trying to figure out why theres a woman beating the seven shades of *hit out of a man who keeps saying "Im sorry!, she's not an auld bat!"

how would it cost to have bush over?
it's not like they'd let us set up the secrity so we dont have to pay for that ... they have all their own cars and tanks and solders and Trucks with Missiles on the back and such for the march down Dame Street.
the only cost will be a day off to go shout at him. which is all fun and games untill you deside to go to america on holidays next year and you find that your name has appeared on the "ramdom" cavity search list and your on level 3 securty and 7 hours later you've missed your connecting flight and you call the grunt a wanker cause he wont believe that you dont plan to kill Lord Bush, so you end up in an orange jumpsuit shackled to a stake in the ground in Camp Xray, waiting for them to let you use the shower while they call you towel head and while your freinds and family complain and our Government does nothing cause there is'nt really anything they can do and then two years later they let you go and say we are the american government we dont need to appoligize. now go home ...and so you write a book and call it "How I learned to love America"

you'll mention the conditions in the Camp and how it cured your ADD and now you have no trouble paying attention to things or concentrating ... you might even call it a Solution to your problem ... well that wasn't very nice I know but still it's not like america would ignore any treaties or UN resolutions or ever human rights...

but back to the bush visit ...

how much would it cost for him to visit ... in terms of costs of securtiy, cost in lost bussiness because the city has to shut down, clean up from the people in the streets both protesting and not and so on...
replacing the dear in the park after a helicopter lands on them...

I say let him come ... but restrict his securty team to 5 guys and with no guns.

I'm sorry I'll never post again. (not true)

ReefBreak

Originally posted by thesecret7
Bertie Ahern has no right to hold the meeting here in Ireland. It should be held in Brussels..... George Bush go home !! We dont want **** like that coming over!!
End the illegal occupation of the West Bank Gaza and Golan heights!!

Actually, he has every right to hold the meeting here. Bush will be here an an US-EU visit, Ireland holds the current EU presidency, therefore we are expected to hold the meeting. Good post by the way, though I think your middle-east political knowledge is a bit off.

shotamoose

Originally posted by kiffer


how much would it cost for him to visit ...

Bush visit cost London £4m in security etc

bonkey

Originally posted by kiffer
The americans bring their own security.

Yes, and they make demands of what is required locally, but I don't think they pay for it.

Last time a US president visited Ireland, for example, I recall reading that every manhole-cover from the airport to his residence for the visit was welded shut in advance, and then (obviously) unwelded once the route no longer needed to be "secure".

Did the US pay for that? I don't think so*.

jc

Yes, I said "think". I am not sure. If anyone knows for sure, I'd like to hear.

chill

As I have often posted I have no time for this dolt of a President.

However he is President of America, our most valuable friend and ally and is here representing the American people.

I hope we do pay for every last cost of having their representative here and I wish some of the rabid Bush haters would give a thought to how the American people will feel toward Ireland when they see him being insulted by, happily, a small minority of Irish people.

It will only lead to less employment in the country, and less tourism - all for the sake of an ego trip by these people.

kiffer

Originally posted by chill
As I have often posted I have no time for this dolt of a President.

.

Originally posted by chill
I hope we do pay for every last cost of having their representative here and I wish some of the rabid Bush haters would give a thought to how the American people will feel toward Ireland when they see him being insulted by, happily, a small minority of Irish people.

well, I see two things happening ...
one the number of protesters is small and they are lost in the massive number of happy flag wavers.
or
two the american media never shows the protesters and adds some happy flag wavers.

either way they'll stay in their happy isolationist place.

I'd be very unhappy to see us pay €4M for bush to come here. thats madness ...
when our people go to america can they bring a few snippers? I dont think that would go down well ...
hello I'd like to put a snipper on the roof of the whitehouse while I'm there ... not going to happen...
so not only will we have to put up with their demands for things like the man hole covers and things but we have to let their people wander all over the place with guns and such. we have to pay a huge amount so he can get more votes? and you think people should'nt protest about things he's done/been involved in/ordered?

monument

Originally posted by chill
I hope we do pay for every last cost of having their representative here and I wish some of the rabid Bush haters would give a thought to how the American people will feel toward Ireland when they see him being insulted by, happily, a small minority of Irish people.

It will only lead to less employment in the country, and less tourism - all for the sake of an ego trip by these people.

Yes, I always put innocent people getting killed and illegal invasions above tourism and how people from the US will feel. What an ego trip!!!

But now that I think of it, if we had covered up the whole Northern Ireland thing we would have got more tourists. :rolleyes:

bonkey

Originally posted by chill
However he is President of America, our most valuable friend and ally and is here representing the American people.

I hope we do pay for every last cost of having their representative here

So you're advocating sending a message to the other EU members that "we can't afford the security cost to bring you here, but we'll pay for Dubya because the US is, apparently, more important to us"???

Great way to show how serious about the EU we are whilst carrying its presidency.

jc

shotamoose

Originally posted by chill
I wish some of the rabid Bush haters would give a thought to how the American people will feel toward Ireland when they see him being insulted by, happily, a small minority of Irish people.

But calling Bush, for example, a dangerous fool, wouldn't really be an insult, since it's basically true.

Sparks

Originally posted by chill
However he is President of America, our most valuable friend and ally

Actually, the EU is our most valuable friend and ally, as shown by the amount of infrastructural funding we've received from them in the past. The US has not funded us in the same manner. (Private sector US companies don't count as they are not political bodies).

As to protesting not being as effective as voting against someone, very true - and the day I can vote against either Bush or Bertie, I won't bother with protesting against them.

But I can't vote against Bush, not being american, and I can't vote against Bertie, not being registered in his constituency.

So what else can I do, Sand?

sovtek

Originally posted by bonkey
So you're advocating sending a message to the other EU members that "we can't afford the security cost to bring you here, but we'll pay for Dubya because the US is, apparently, more important to us"???

Great way to show how serious about the EU we are whilst carrying its presidency.

jc

"Yea well uh they gave me little one a movie deal" -Bertie Ahern

DaithiSurfer

Just a word of warning.
I have a friend who did something some would consider bad a few years ago.
Anyway when being interviewed by 'the various authorities' she was presented with photographs of herself at every protest she had ever been at. Need less to say when she told me i couldnt believe that it was legal to photograph people at protests etc. Since i have found out from people in the know that even though you dont know about it at its not made public you are indeed photographed and if you do something considered 'against the best interests' of particular people or governments that these photos will be produced and used to stop you entering certain countries.
Sorry, i can't be more specific, but cannot give the plot away here.
Moral : cover your face when you protest.

shotamoose

Originally posted by DaithiSurfer

Moral : cover your face when you protest.

No. I don't want to visit any country that wouldn't let me in cos they're not happy with me expressing my views. I wouldn't say I'm the only one, either. You might find that countries which harass people expressing their freedom of speech like this will lose more visitors than those that allow protest.

Oh, and the corollary is that anyone who decides not to visit Ireland simply because some people felt like protesting against George Bush is exactly the kind of person we could do without. IMHO.

dathi1

On this case I find myself on the same side as the "lefties". Really looking forward to the protests and I will play an active part in rallying the troops starting today. This is the best chance since the invasion and occupation to send a message to the 40 million Irish American voters that we hate Bush period. This unelected lying ball of slime must be given the most vile rebuttal possible in June. I don't think the protests will be as family orientated as the anti war demos but given the frustration of the general public with Ahearn and Harney's pandering to this gang of war criminals I'd say it will be significant.

Now did yez hear what bertie said in the Irish Times!! "I doont want yez protestin against Bush"

That's as good an incentive as any.

Hobbes

Originally posted by TomF
Look for tourism from the U.S.A. to Ireland to drop precipitously right after the orgy of protesting and general America-hating that erupts here during Bush's visit and after all that hits the U.S. media.

The currency at the moment is doing that. So can't give all the credit to how people feel in Ireland.

dathi1

i begin to wonder whats the point of protesting other than to vent our frustration. It seems that governments these days completely ignore the wishes of their populace, eg. Blair retard boy in the UK. Why not just vote Bertie out? That would be the way to teach a lesson to politicians.

Well you cant vote for who you want comes election time..buts that's boring...on this matter its Marketing that counts. If you get a big turn out and you get U.S. TV coverage...You've won. Why? Because you played a part in the anti Bush marketing strategy. 46% of the Americans aren't too keen on Bush at the moment. Every little helps in what might be a close run fraudulent election. So get your banners, Palestinian Flags, F### Bush Posters and whatever else and yer away.

Cork

Originally posted by dathi1
, Palestinian Flags, F### Bush Posters and whatever else and yer away.

US remittances, US tourism & foriegn direct direct investment has done alot for this country.

US media are not going to cover Irish protestors.

What is waving Palestinian Flags expected to achieve? Why not protest aganist the tactic of suicide bombings?

Such protests will get some coverage by RTE and the Joe Duffy radio show.

But beyond that, their main effect will cost the Irish exchequer many euros in security costs.

Ajnag

Both american and irish constitutions mean alot to me, and as such I will be out to protest against bertie and bush the traitors.Not because Im of some defineable political sterotype, nor because Im anti-american.But because theres a lack of respect for good old fashioned law.

Im up for a boards protest day, count me in, If its possible.

As for slogans hhmm

Bertie Bertie Hes your man,
If Anyone can suck it
Bertie Can.

Redleslie

Originally posted by Sand
You see thats a solution - when it comes to election time vote for someone else. Elections are where politicans pay a lot of attention to the wishes of their populace.

But protesting is easier - you show up for the one day, say "boooo, down with that sort of thing" and then go home and forget about it. Hell, you can even make a day of it.

Unfortunately protests arent elections so even a hundred thousand protestors = 0 votes.

So youre right, all its good for is venting frustration.

So the following examples of mass protest were just a waste of everybody's time and had no political or cultural impact whatsoever.

Daniel O'Connell's monster meetings.
The Gandhi thing.
1968 France.
NI civil rights movement.
US Civil rights movement.
Vietnam war protests.

Now maybe you're special, and if you'd been involved in any of those events you would've forgotten about the whole thing in a day or two but somehow I think anyone who was there would remember a few details.

I can think of quite a few good reasons to protest but if the prospect of a large scale demo against Bush makes our right wing's lunatic fringe so nervous, then that's gotta be near the top of the list. Begin construction of the giant pretzels.