Your views on downloading pirited copys

User45701

I want you views on this.

I would belive that it is ok for certan reasons.

1.You love a TV Show/Movie that is not avayble to buy in shops or online.
2.You once bought a game/music thing/DVD/VHS but broke it and aready paid for it.

I Love CnC it is the greatest game and an amazing story, years ago i bought Tiberian dawn and covert operations. I broke the covert ops CD and cant find a replacement.
Westwood/EA Games dont make Covert ops anymore and no shops or websites have it anymore, I found 1 copy, just 1 It is on amazon for 50 euro. I cant decide if i should buy that or just download it.

EDIT: The poll includes buying pirited copys from other people
EDIT: I need a MOD to edit my poll and put in another option. =

7.Its ok to buy/Download pirited things that wont be for sale for a long time (like a movie that just came out in the cinima and you dont want to wait for it to be on DVD)

8.Its ok to buy/Download pirited things that wont be for sale for a long time (like a movie that just came out in the cinima and you dont want to wait for it to be on DVD)
but only if you buy it when it does come out on DVD

tman

could've done with being a multi choice poll tbh.

i definitely don't agree with it always being acceptable.
in the case of downloading a backup for a broken copy, or downloading something that would be, otherwise, unatainable new. yeah, thats perfectly acceptable in my opinion.

Dustaz

Dont make excuses, its never 'ok' to pirate copyright material.

The fact that most of us do it/have done it does not make it legal or alright though.

I suppose if something is gone out of publication then there is a certain moral allowance but not in the eyes of the law.

Capt'n Midnight

[Troll] What about Abandonware ? [/Troll]

TheSonOfBattles

99% of what I download is fan subbed Anime. Most of it wouldn't be available outside of Japan, although sometimes it's available in butchered American format. DiscoStu corrected me on this, its is still illegal in the eyes of the law, but the producers or whatever are ok with you downloading it, as long as it's not licensed in your area. Since they're not licensed in Europe, i'm perfectly glad to accept the chance to watch such fine examples of art/tv as it should be.

byte

I would download stuff if my original copy was knackered or something I guess, or if is not available to buy.

But then, I don't have broadband so my downloading is pretty limited anyway.

User45701

There is 1 problem with all the people who said they DL stuff all the time.

What if the company that makes ur faverate game runs out of money because not enough people buy the game in the shops?
Then you want have any sequels or expansions to your faverate game.

TheSonOfBattles

Originally posted by User45701
There is 1 problem with all the people who said they DL stuff all the time.

What if the company that makes ur faverate game runs out of money because not enough people buy the game in the shops?
Then you want have any sequels or expansions to your faverate game.

All of the people I know who download movies/music/games only download stuff they're only kinda interested in or want to try before they buy. Movies, music and even more so games, that they actually like and play/use regularly they buy after they've downloaded it.

So even if a company went out of business, it's most likely to be a business they could care less about. I know everyone won't be this way, but a fair few people would be.

Pigman II

I don't agree with your 1, 7 and 8 and you're deluding yourself if you think it's ok to D/L illegal stuff just because you can't see/play it right now.

With regard to point 2 it's not a valid excuse either and you should probably just be more careful with your affairs/possessions. If for example one accidentally burnt their ticket to todays Ireland v Wales rugby match should they still expect to be let into Lansdowne without question just because they bought a ticket? Try telling that to a steward.

TacT

I like cake, better be double choccy

TheSonOfBattles

Why not go the whole hog and just get triple or quadruple chocolate. Or you even invent your own kinda cake, octuplet choclate cake

MrPinK

Originally posted by Pigman II
With regard to point 2 it's not a valid excuse either and you should probably just be more careful with your affairs/possessions. If for example one accidentally burnt their ticket to todays Ireland v Wales rugby match should they still expect to be let into Lansdowne without question just because they bought a ticket? Try telling that to a steward.

But if you had a perfect duplicate of your ticket and you accidently burnt one of them, you'd still just sit at home and not go to the match?

Pigman II

Originally posted by MrPinK
But if you had a perfect duplicate of your ticket and you accidently burnt one of them, you'd still just sit at home and not go to the match?

Then the debate would shift to the legitimacy of having that duplicate, not what you do with it.

Point I'm trying to make is that just because you pay for something and are too careless to look after it of it shouldn't mean you treat yourself to illegial duplicates and then feel suitably justified for doing so.

User45701

My way of looking at it is that if you buy the ticket then whoever sells those tockets have made there money so noone will lose out if you make a illigal copy.

I know nothing about sports or music concerts (tickets) but i thought that tickets have codes on them would it not be possible to take down that code in case of destruction of ticket?

BTW the cake can be any type of cake u want
For me at the mo it is coffie layer cake

dangerman

im right in the middle of a 10,000 word project on the very subject of illegal file sharing.

Downloading illegal software is never 'ok' ... its against the law.

what has happened however is that we've got used to sharing things through a nice build up: first of all it was just copying tapes of albums for your mates, or the odd time ur mate brought back a pirate video from somewhere or something...the internet has reduced the latency and improved the convenience so its far too tempting an offer - people get these files because it's interesting to do so. You can't stop that.

the other important thing is that it used to be hard-core criminal counterfitting operations that harmed the content industries, but now the end user is gaining the power to damage revenues through illicit means.

Having been studying this for a few months now, the outcome of it all seems inevitable. The content industries will lose, because they've misjudged entirely what the internet is. Tech like DRM & Trusted Computing can only go so far, but no end user is willfully going to sign up to big-brother-esque style tech in computers...and any government would have a serious difficult time passing such a law to force it.

BTW, is anyone aware that tomorrow a new EU Intellectual Property Directive is getting its first hearing...this would allow for music industry agents to raid homes right across europe much like the DMCA allows people in the states to do so. As part of my project, im going to talk to Mary Hanafin about it tomorrow i hope.

I'm not just being sensational, i've been giving this a lot of thought and within ten years i believe things are going to be very different in this whole area.

If anyone's actually interested, my project, which [i bloody well hope] gives a good overview of this entire topic will be up on the net within about two weeks.

Very interested in what people think on this whole subject.

TheSonOfBattles

I'd be interested in reading some of it if you put up the link in here when it's up.

As for how the music/movie industry can stop this from happening, they have part of the right idea, but they are executing it badly tbh. If they make a decent, legal file sharing program thats a good idea. The bad part is that they're trying to charge exactly the same amout for just the files (minus any physical storage or info material), and worse, they limit the amount of time you can keep them. If they put up said program for download, and then charged a once of fee for life, at a decent price, like say €1 a song, €5 an album, €5 for a movie only and €8 for all extra's from the dvd or something like that they'd have a much better chance at making people accept and use it, and still make a profit at the same time.

User45701

I hope they do raid homes but i know little or nothing about music so it wuldent effect me,
I hope they do it with games and DVDs aswell as music.

Please post a link in a week or 2 when it is finished (lol imagine the irony of reading your 10,000 word project while DL`in illigal files)

dangerman

just to add more detail, this is an extraordinarily controversial directive thats being pushed through 'quietly' .

what it does is allow, say, microsoft or EMI Ireland to go to court and get [without your knowledge] permission to raid and seize material. this is unbelievable; its not the gardai that would be seizing, it would be 'agents' of said company/industry organisation... and privacy advocates are seriously concerned that 1) your material is being seized without actual legal proceedings being filed against you and 2) it paves the way for literally thousands of litigation cases.

read more here: http://www.ffii.org.uk/releases/040219_trust.html

One of the very real concerns as well thats slightly off topic on this thread is the new stuff would allow companies to 'pull a SCO' ... hamper new innovative companies and open source projects by dumping legal claims on them until they're bled dry.

The above was fav. tactic of intel btw, (and many others i assume), any potential threat to their business, they just slap a huge law suit on the newbie, and bleed them dry with legal fees. Its nothing new, but the new eu directives tip the balance far too far in favour of big business according to some.

*one thing > im new to all this so dont take it as gospel, i could easily have misunderstood some things etc. if you want to know more, its just a google away....

TheSonOfBattles

All I have to say is: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:

****s sake like, how did the bastards ever get it through so fucking quietly like?

kaimera

I'm downloading cake right now...mmhhhmmm warez cake

seriously tho, like it's beee pointed out, regardless of what we might think of d/l *stuff*, it IS illegal, no if's buts or any other crap.

all a company needs to do is put the cd protection thats on X2: the threat [as if this past friday, I had heard it was uncrackable]....or at least it would be a start.

dangerman

yeh, the main option missing from this pole is:

It's never ok, but I do it anyway.


I've read reports of people in the states claiming they didn't know that all that music they got off kazaa wasn't legite. I don't think anyone here would dare claim that. Everyone knows its wrong and bad, but does it anyway.

mr_angry

I wont deny I've got a lot of music from P2P networks. However, despite knowing that its technically wrong, I feel no remorse for doing so. As a student, I've had little or no money for the past 5 years, and I seriously doubt that I would have bought many, if any, more CDs in that period. Had I abided completely within the law, none of the music that I now appreciate would ever have reached my ears. Should I feel bad about that? Maybe, but I don't.

In any case, research has proved that P2P users buy more CDs than any other demograph - yet this is the demograph that the RIAA's litigation is targeting. Strange. Yes, sales of singles are down by 44% since 1999. However, album sales are significantly up. Could it be that Western Europe's economic success in recent years has led to a shift in the demand for music towards albums, rather than singles? Nah, must be the fault of the evil P2P networks. Could also be something to do with the repetititve pop-crap thrown at the singles market lately too.

There's also the question of situational ethics. i.e. The laws of the land are often directed by what the general population find acceptable. At some point, the populations of Europe decided that capital punishment was wrong - hence it was made illegal. Similarly, if the populations of Europe decide that sharing music is legal, should the laws then reflect this?

I think the panic in the music industry is a symptom of just how badly it is run, and the fear of imminent change in the way people (yes, the PEOPLE) treat music. They are resisting this change with all their might, just so the head of EMI can keep the plush chairs in his office, and waste €40m on the next One True Voice. I, for one, hope they get f***ed in the ass. If the bands suffer, as they presumably will when the labels scramble to maintain their rediculous profits, then I hope to see the formation of independant labels, where the bands receive a bigger percentage of sales profits.

It's alright to file-share, if WE DECIDE ITS ALRIGHT!

TheSonOfBattles

By jebus they better not start seizing for anime, cause if they do, us Europeans will have to wait years to get the lastest Japanese animes, and worse, most of the good one's won't get over here because the company decide that it won't sell well to a certain age demographic. Downloading is THE only option most of the time tbh. Yes you can buy certain one's, but there's a lot of good anime that isn't available in English (subbed or dubbed) except by download.

BigEejit

WRT that option that its ok to download software where you have lost or damaged the media ... surely this is ok because with all software that I am aware of, you dont buy the software but a license to use the software.... and if you have a license it surely doesnt matter if you have an original disk or a copy ....does it?

And if they start cracking down on this it will go underground, where there is a will there's a way ... I'd imagine something using anonymous proxies or similar would make life much harder for the big companies trying to catch them because lets not play around here, its the big companies that will get the benefit from this.

sceptre

Originally posted by mr_angry
At some point, the populations of Europe decided that capital punishment was wrong - hence it was made illegal.

Probably the only part of your post I find any fault with (second paragraph was nicely put by the way). I'll offer west Germany as one (possibly isolated, though I suspect not) example. When West Germany finally outlawed the death penalty, extensive polls indicated the penalty had a support rate of 74%. Twenty years later, support was at 17%.

Realistically I suspect that a major part of the RIAA's reason for clamping down is that they're terrified of someone making a successful business model out of music downloads without involving them. If they don't get their cut of the pie (and the extra bits like allowances for breakages and packaging that are still present in all current major record company-sanctioned download services) they'll not be best pleased.

User45701

Its illigal to download TV rips of TV shows isent it?

Are they going to care that much if you miss 1 episode of ur TV show half way through the new seris and you DL it before next weeks episode?

daveg

I personally rekon we have an awful lot of hypocritical folks on boards.ie. How many of you can honestly say you have never downloaded a copyright MP3 be it from P2P or the internet? If you want to get into a meaty argument how many of you have never taped an album onto cassette or for that matter how many of you have recorded a film/program onto a VHS tape? I have read/taken part in this debate many times on boards.ie and what pisses me off is the amount of "holy than thou" stances a lot of people take when you know most have commited "copyright infringement" (as defined above) themselves.

What is the difference between taping an album or downloading it and burning to CD? I see 2 differenced. 1/ the quality of the recording and 2/ the amount of money the music business are losing from each scenario (obviously they are losing more from MP3's).

Copyright infringement is illegal and no matter how we sugercoat it this fact will not change. However I think a lot of folks should get off their high horses "unless" they have not committed any of the acts mentioned above.

TheSonOfBattles

I've downloaded music/films/tv series's before, but the only thing i've downloaded in the last coupla months is anime. Not for any particularly good reason, just that it's all I really wanna watch tbh.

I'd hope I never came across as being on a high horse, and regardless of whether or not downloading anime becomes legal or stays illegal, i'll continue to do it remorse free because oft times it's the only way I'm gonna see the good anime. Music I barely listen to at the moment for some reason, and i've never been a big film person. I won't even try to say I never downloaded them but, if the entertainment industry in general would come to its collective senses, i'd be perfectly willing to pay for stuff at a reasonable price like I said above.

daveg

Originally posted by TheSonOfBattles
I've downloaded music/films/tv series's before, but the only thing i've downloaded in the last coupla months is anime. Not for any particularly good reason, just that it's all I really wanna watch tbh.

I'd hope I never came across as being on a high horse, and regardless of whether or not downloading anime becomes legal or stays illegal, i'll continue to do it remorse free because oft times it's the only way I'm gonna see the good anime. Music I barely listen to at the moment for some reason, and i've never been a big film person. I won't even try to say I never downloaded them but, if the entertainment industry in general would come to its collective senses, i'd be perfectly willing to pay for stuff at a reasonable price like I said above.

My point was not directed at you TheSonOfBattles or specifically anyone else who has posted on this thread. It's a vent from all the other threads I have read on the subject.

mr_angry

Originally posted by sceptre
Realistically I suspect that a major part of the RIAA's reason for clamping down is that they're terrified of someone making a successful business model out of music downloads without involving them.

TBH, I don't agree with downloading music in order to re-sell. It seems very wrong to me. However, "sharing" in itself I don't find wrong. Sure weren't we encouraged to do it as kids all the time?

Exit

Playing Devil's Advocate for a second: Don't most artists/filmmakers etc. want their work to reach a larger number of people rather than making money off it? Isn't that what true artists want most?