IQ3CL Rules regarding foreign players

m1ke

"Regarding non Irish Players - The actual playing team must comprise of at least two Irish born players (including Northern Ireland). Members of European national teams / Other National teams are not permitted except in the case of the Team3.ie"

This paragraph above is currently the rule regarding non Irish players.

Several people have brought to my attention the fact that this could be changed to have a positive effect on the league - so far Ser and Chaos think if higher quality players are allowed into the league like Q50 then it will improve and we won't "suk" forever.

People like Zero think "but the teams are reasonably even, and a league isnt worth playing if one clan constantly snatches ninjas".

So there's a for and against to this argument and if you'd like the rule to be altered or stay the same, please let me know of your thoughts so we can think about amending/not amending this particular rule.

Ser

gg

Predator

so what u want is to ban all leet players?
who gets to decide whos leet and whos not?
other clans have english players and u dont see zero moaning about them, why is it just ps? is this against l33t players or against ps?
aswell when it comes to english people(ser) on team3.ie people dont moan but they do when they play for an irish squad , a bit hypocritical i think.
also
if this is all for fun , why the hell do u care who plays for the opposition??
why take it so seriously
u could just play that team at a lan when thyre english players owuldnt be around and see how well u do.
NEWAYS YER for foriegn players , they up the skill a bit.
really though who cares?
g.

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Daddy or chips?

Bunny

Wont it just turn into a competition to get the best foreign players....look i think you can go and get good foreign players....i'm sure some clans will now, but leave out national team members at least.

PS get q50
dk get silent and vorv
then we get loads of swedes etc etc

Also i think more people should post up about hows its just a game and just for fun, that noone should take it seriously etc

peace


[This message has been edited by Bunny (edited 04-10-2000).]

Illkillya

dk is ded.

Koopa

ive said this already, the better the players we play against, the better we will get, if we dont let q50 etc. play now, they will play us in some league later on anyway, and rape us because we are not used to their style of play.
i think that even completely foreign clans should be allowed to enter if they want.. i wouldnt mind playing against clan EYE or whatever if they wanted to play in our league, itll only make us better

podgeen

good point sam
i agree foreign clans should be allowed enter, as it can only improve the standard of irish quake, but as regards poaching foreign players i agree with bunny on the one. it wont be a competition to see who is the best clan it will be to see which clan has the best connections, who can they get to join their clan for the league....

MindPhuck

Firstly, lets clear up something, I had no input into the whole Q50 thing. I dont run the IQ3CL, I help out and give advice.

Heres my thoughts on the whole foreign player lark. Irish Quake, imho, is at a turning point.. almost a focal point in its history, where we are becoming a more internationally reckognized group of players who are of a high standard. Recent events such as the BWEC and the CPL are making us more promenant in the gaming world. Alot of UK and European players have great respect for us wee Irish lads. And as you know and I know, we own them

Coming back to the point, I think we would be shooting ourselves in the toes if we were to limit Irish only players in an Irish league.

The thing is to attract players from other countries to play and bring more action and impact to our leagues. Divisions/groups would have to be put in place tho to cater for the higher standard teams.

A couple of problems that I can see with the 'snatching' up of 'ninja' players is it could turn out to be a league of 'lets see who has the best connections' or 'our eleet players are better then your leet players'.

Also, some of these 'leet' players will consider us irish quakers as easy money and will not take it as serious as other leagues out there. That will happen in the outset, but as competition grows, maybe they will take a more serious attitude to it.

As for PS, it does look like it was all bad timing, maybe if they had said they had q50 when they signed up for the league, there mightn't have been such an outcry. At the very least least we could have had this discussion before the league started.

Zero

Don't be getting me wrong, there's a difference between opening up the league to foreign players, and a last minute ninja-grab to save face. Ignore the PS w/e thing for a minute, that was obviously Gayos going to any length to win.
What Ser/others have brought up is a much bigger picture altogether. I mean, I don't have a problem with us bringing in the brits at all, but there are a few ways of looking at it.
1) Why grab players with commitments to other clans? If we all get ninjas it's like Bunny said, a race to see what ninjas each clan can get. PS end up playing a 4K team, UNR get on our server with nD in front of their names, and all us Irish Quakers sitting on our holes while other teams with our names fight our wars?
2) On the other hand, if we don't bring in other better players, we ourselves won't get better, become a load of inbred Quakers, and will get raped at the next BWEC.
3) Look back and agreeing with Eric, will Ninjas take us seriously? Not at all, PS-Q50 and [nD]Vorv would play their war against each other and have a laugh and then go play their "real" games while we sit and lob torrents of abuse at each other.

I think I have a better idea which would help us all get better and not fúck things up as much by turning it into a ninja-grabbing session. How about we have the Irish Clans, say 8 (?) of them in the league, and do it like an invitational, invite 8 English clans to play in our league, mix the whole lot up in a box and play a 16-Clan league. It will be bigger, better, and we are all sure to improve a lot with the experience. What do ye think of that?


Zero.

"I will kill you, until you DIE from it!"

El_Presidente

Thats a very good idea.

If we got whole English clans entering that would help raise the standard of Irish Quake while everyone would still get a game.

Get 4K, UNR and DC in the league and things would get a whole lot more interesting.

Predator

yes good points raised there
how about english players may play for you if the irish clan thyre in is there first clan.
and inviting them english clans is a good idea, but id say wait till cable has rolled out and were all low pingers, its gonna happen so we might aswell be on a level with them .
what ya think?
g.

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Daddy or chips?

MindPhuck

Thats a really cool Idea Zero.

With the Barrysworld Leagues just over, there will be a gap of a few weeks or so before any other leagues kick in. I'd say right now, is the oppertune moment to invite them to play in our league. It really would be class. I'll ask a few ppl I know personally from different UK clans and see would they join.

Predator

eric do u mean for them to join in in da middle of the league now?
or start again?

creative

the better the opposition over time the better we'll get.

I dont think the same fuss would have been made if this was involving PS ....but the issue needed to be iorned out sometime....better now the never.

I now live in holland...so will I be able to play?

Zero

No. Fúck off you Dutch Bástard.

Vorosha

i would especially like to see turkish clans entering this league.
collie, does that make you a slpb?

Paladin

Umm. I dont care about Q3 etc. , but uuh
those ppl (hehe u koopa ) who want foreigners so they can get better, well cant you go and play in barrysworld leagues that they are in and get praccy there?

I mean that every now and then the players who arent ever gonna make national squads want to play in a league too. They is just gonna be whipped repeatadly by "leet" foreigners. Yes,yes thats how they get better blah blah, but a lot of ppl dont care about becoming "leet", they just want a decent game for fun.
Keep the top leagues - like BW (no offence to IQ3CL) - for the international players, and keep Irish leagues for fun.

I mean, has anyone asked M1ke if HE wants his league to suddenly become a super-leet get together of foreigners and best of the Irish?
Maybe he does, dunno, but best thing said so far:

Posted by Bunny:
i think more people should post up about hows its just a game and just for fun, that noone should take it seriously

Genius

The only prob with Zero's ideas is decent UK clans are prolly gonna whinge away at playing on Vishnu. The main problem would be getting a guarantee that these clans wouldnt treat the league as a joke and not turn up for games or drop out etc

Good idea though..

Overlord

I would love some foreign clans in the league. There is nothing like playing good opposition. As genius said they need to be serious about it and make an effort. For this reason we should limit the number if m1ke sees fit to let 'em in.

2040

oh yeah good idea - the time we had EED in the league was a great success...

TwoShedsJackson

Originally posted by 2040:
oh yeah good idea - the time we had EED in the league was a great success...

lol

bio*C4

jasus, the league just started and you all want to restart it with some uk clans...

dont argee with it...

btw.. wtf is castor troy wafflin in here.. thought all half-lifers were shot on sight in the quake forum?

cannibal

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Bring It On

Ser

oh no, dont let the english in our league, god no.

not just england, european clans.

rookies,

m1ke

I appreciate everyones input into this discussion. It causes quite a dilemma for me. For years now i've competing at a serious level in the major UK leagues in Quake2 and more recently Quake3 ... I had always separated the two.

The IQ3CL - was the fun, home league, best pingers, familiar faces, good craic and most of all a great sense of rivalry between clans (which can get out of hand but makes the game worth playing

The BWDML,UKCL,UKCCL,Clan wars etc...
I'm in separate clans, competing in division 1, vs 4K,UNR,DC,WD,NeO,OCR and the rest at a serious level, i'm always aiming to improve and play more Quake in these leagues, get more experience and improve as a player generally.

The difference :
BWDML - serious quake, serious competition, enjoyable and keeps me on my toes as a player.
IQ3CL - fun quake, great rivalry, lots of history

I like it this way, I get two flavors of Quake for the price of one ... and what a lot of people are suggesting is we morph the IQ3CL from it's current all Irish emphasis with a small sprinkle of uk to a mini-BWDML.

I'm less in favor of a mini-BWDML, and if you're all really dedicated on improving and advancing in Quake3 i'm suprised more of you aren't playing in UK leagues. To my knowledge BiO/7 and that's it.

Also there's been a proved history of the failure of UK clans to adapt to the Irish league, EED as an example in both the IQ2CL and IQ3CL... the ping barrier, the best UK'ers are used of a 40-60 ping on their local servers, on our servers the best they can hope for is a min of 70-90 wheras we're lucky we can achieve <50 on uk servers.

Almost all of BiO's UK players are not mad into the idea of playing in the IQ3CL except for the janet slpbs. This would be a major factor when asking UK/foreign clans to join.

Things would likely get more messy aswell, more then they are

Anyway further comments appreciated but I don't feel like pausing the league just yet. My main aim in this league was always to try and kick start the clans scene we have here, get people playing, playing eachother more importantly so that's why we have an IQ3CL that is an easily maintainable vanilla format 1 division league that can be run, pause for a month (in which we can run an IQ3CL Sunday Cup or CTF Mini League or stuff like that) and then restart it back up .... so the idea being we can manage 3-4 IQ3CL seasons a year, and keep Irelands clan scene alive.

TwoShedsJackson

Originally posted by bio*C4:

btw.. wtf is castor troy wafflin in here.. thought all half-lifers were shot on sight in the quake forum?

guess if I even played half-life i might be worried.

MindPhuck

Well,

Its not my league. But, if say 4-6 UK teams were definately gonna join, we could restart. Thats M1kes decision tho. Only one week has passed anyhows. It would have to be a worthwhile.

In the BW league, late starters into a division loose default games and frag difference.

m1ke

****off posting off topic castor please, no one needs your spamming crap again like that last post u wrecked.

gandalf

Ok as a non-Q3 player I don't know whats happening in the scene at the moment. But I can give you some input from the UT side of things.

My opinion would be to open up the league to all clans, not just limit it to 4-6 UK ones alone (obviously if you have to limit it because of resources thats a different situation). DzR take part in BW, Savage and Clanbase competitions and there is no limit on the player locations or connects. This gives us the opportunity to play against some of the best players in Europe and because of this our skill levels etc. are improving. I think you should remove all restrictions on locations of players and connections and play this league like nearly all those in the UK and Europe. The entry should be based on 1st come 1st served.

Anyway thats my tuppence. BTW DzR lads my inactivity should be ending soon.

Gandalf.

TwoShedsJackson

ah well it was a BiO head that started it, as usual :P

Vorosha

i'm just glad everyone came right out and gave their two cents on the subject, ya know?

m1ke

nice to see you're wise enough to know when to stop castor dumbass****.

TwoShedsJackson

Pretty wise yourself aren't you?? :P

DeVore

A couple of problems:

1. For every foreign Ninja we allow into an irish clan to "raise the standard" an irish player sits on the benches.

2. Not everyone plays to get better nor wants to get walloped by a team of ninjas (Irish or Foreign). Its pathetic enough when the really bad mismatches get played as it is (anyone remember CW v Bloodangels? or Reaper singlehandedly drawing with Phx? Ok, the second one was amusing...)

It seems to me that there are two desires here. Firstly for us to raise the national standard for people like Ser Koopa and for people who aspire to be as good as they are etc. Secondly the desire to have a fun local league where "everyone's a winner" (bleuch! but you know what I mean)

These cant be resolved and I agree with Mike's earlier long post (I have to go lie down now).

Why not have an Irish League and an Irish Open. The Irish league is the IQ3CL as it is and as it is underway already.

The Irish Open being made up of any team who wish to enter from anywhere, run by Irish admins on Irish servers.

The foreign teams will take it seriously since their carefully crafted net-reps depend on it. Imagine... "4K defeated in Irish league, placed 4th!!" The fact that they defaulted 3 games wont do much to contain that headline.

Just some thoughts.

[FH] - DeV
Prepare to be splashed!!!

Illkillya

Originally posted by DeVore:
A couple of problems:

1. For every foreign Ninja we allow into an irish clan to "raise the standard" an irish player sits on the benches.

thats it exactly. the irish league means a lot more to irish ppl than it would to foreign ones who don't konw the opposition, and the rivalry and stuff. if there was an english person who was fully dedicated to the clan, i would prefer to play and irish person, even if he's not as good, because the game is for fun, and the irish person will get a lot more fun than an english person (unless he is active in the community and knows the clans and the players or whatever).

i think it would be insane to play a foreign person who is not even dedicated to the clan, and is in more than 1 clan, in the iq3cl. then an irish person who really wants to play has to sacrifice their place to somebody who is not fully committed to the clan, and who does not feel the same way about playign in the irish league.

i know its different in the case of PS who don't have enough players atm, but thats why i don't think all 8 clans in the league will recruit a load of l33t foreigners for the purpose of winning the iq3cl

Vorosha

i think the irish open should have loads of deadly prizes & money for the winner.

Ser

mighty.