Honda Civic Totally buggered now!

gwladys boy

with regard to the last post........

i had philips ice blue bulbs put on......still havent got around to fixing the beams

my brother was fixing the exhaust, had to take it to work and do a spot of welding, made a good job of it

after firing her up my brother said your car is ****ed, there is blue fumes, its burning oil...........

that explains the non existent oil from the previous day..........

i got the car for 850 euros....the wanker i got it from obviouslt never took care of it...........ie: it was crashed a few times...small crashed thou.

and possibly never changed oil.

i put in a 350 euros sony xplod mp3 system and expensive speakers.........

i got the car because it was a vtec engine, and thought i was getting a good deal

wat would you people recommend? can the engine be repaired on the cheap?

my brother said it will never be 100% and once you open the engine it will never be the same again........

sceptre

I'm not being a smart ass but have you just spent the same money on your sound (stereo and speakers (you didn't say how much these were) and any other additions you might have made as you did on the car?

(I am rather a curious bunny)

RicardoSmith

I suspect this is a troll.

You get what you pay for. If you're buying a car you should get a full check on it by someone who knows what their doing. A car that cheap isn't worth spending money on. Any engine work is likely to cost €400-600. and no mechanic is likely to take that one. They'll tell you just to go buy a better one.

Incidentally theres a whole load of Vtec engines. The majority of them aren't that powerful, but are designed for economy. Do your research mate.

ondafly

Originally posted by RicardoSmith
Incidentally theres a whole load of Vtec engines. The majority of them aren't that powerful, but are designed for economy. Do your research mate.

other way around Ricardo, majority are powerful, very few are economy , better known as VTEC-E

As for the engine buggered because theres smoke - I doubt it some how. More like you put too much oil in as previously suggested. Now this oil is probably in your CAT, which is burning it off, it won't burn it all off - you will need to drop some out.

RicardoSmith

Originally posted by ondafly
other way around Ricardo, majority are powerful, very few are economy , better known as VTEC-E

As for the engine buggered because theres smoke - I doubt it some how. More like you put too much oil in as previously suggested. Now this oil is probably in your CAT, which is burning it off, it won't burn it all off - you will need to drop some out.

Thats one thats even more specifically designed for economy. (I thought it was US only?) But ALL Vtecs are designed for econonmy. Thats the whole point of the two cam profiles no? Otherwise they would just have one profile for performance at the top end. I had a 1600 16v non Vtec (130bhp) and it was more powerful than all the single cam Vtecs AFAIK. Only the dual cam Vtecs have any real grunt. Sure the single cams are nippy yeah, and they are nice little motors. But the 16v Vtec's are where all action is.

If oil is getting into exhaust system then its being blown up past the cylinders. Even if you put too much oil in it shouldn't do that. A bit of blue smoke isn't a disaster. My old fiesta has been putting out a bit of smoke under hard acceleration for the past couple of years. But its the sign of wear, or a problem in the engine. You can live with it if you take it easy on the engine and keep the oil topped up. But you shouldn't BUY a car thats doing it. Especially if its doing it at idle.

At least thats my understanding of it. I could be wrong. are there any grease monkeys in the house tonight? :ninja:

ondafly

Honda's idea behind VTEC is to have more power without increasing engine size (CC). VTEC-E is designed with economy as the primary goal, not power output.

what is the 1.6 engine you are referring to ?

laughin boy

had to register and reply to this, where does this ALL vtecs are designed for economy come from? you obviously don't own or have ever driven a honda??

my honda civic is a 1.6 litre DOHC VTEC as standard it produced 158bhp it now produces 186bhp with mods >> no forced induction, all N/A.

also as standard the 1.6 DOHC 158bhp kicked ass with pretty much all other n/a 1.6l motors, why because of VTEC

here's my printout of the 186 bhp

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid104/p7b7b2be011b472f0e1a99c2d346213a4/f995936c.jpg
just incase the pic doesn't work

Gmodified

if the honda engine burns ltrs of oil, this means only one thing

motor is fvcked,

1.5vtec it's not worth repairing.

ZENER

I had a beautiful Integra '91 with a 1.6 DOHC V-TEC (B-16A)and she was a flyer. Most people dont know how to drive a V-TEC which doesn't kick in till you go over 4500 rpm. Unfortunately one of the valves dropped into cylinder 3 on my engine and wrote it off but a replacement only cost me 350 yoyo's.

Maybe the original poster could tell us the engine spec of his car. The 1.5 V-TEC SOHC was a nice engine and was indeed capable of 130BHP but with poor torque figures which can be improved using adjustable cam gears.

The newer civics etc have economy V-TEC engines that don't do justice to the genuine article Kick Ass DOHC V-TEC installed in the earlier Civics, Integra's and Prelude's. My recommentation is the Integra 1.8 V-TEC DOHC produced in 92 - 96 with the American GS-R spec, it's the closest thing to Type-R without the insurance loading !!

Tinky

mike65

i got the car for 850 euros....the wanker i got it from obviouslt never took care of it...........ie: it was crashed a few times...small crashed thou.

and possibly never changed oil.

Says it all....why buy a crashed car with oil you could
squeeze from a tube?

Mike.

ondafly

Originally posted by tinky
My recommentation is the Integra 1.8 V-TEC DOHC produced in 92 - 96 with the American GS-R spec, it's the closest thing to Type-R without the insurance loading !!

Tinky

The JDM Si is more powerful than the American model, and its RHD

Heres a link to a pic of my engine
http://www.jspeed.net/images/temp/engine2.jpg

It just screams Economy

1.5 VTEC Engine is an excellent engine, and with some choice modifications can produce more BHP and torque.

ZENER

That engine looks like the B-16A that was in my Integra. The American moels are lower power because of the lower octane fuel the have there and the pollutions laws that apply.

If thats a picture of your car then respect ! It looks well and reminds me of mine when I had it. I'm not familiar with the JDM i, I presume this is a Japanese Domestic Market jobby which was rated higher than the US one for the reasons above. The GS-R 1.8 DOHC V-TEC (180BHP) is a nice car but pitty about the body shape - I hated the front shape which is why I bought the '90 Prelude Si 4WS instead

Tinky

RicardoSmith

Just because an engine is designed to have high performance, doesn't mean that precludes high economy. The Vtec is a design that gives you economy at low revs and high power at high revs. Here an article for all you disbelievers. Note the bits about fuel economy.

http://asia.vtec.net/article/d15b/index.html

laughin boy - yes I have had 3 Crx's from a 1.5 SOHC, 1.6 DOHC and a SiR. All very very economical on fuel.

I didn't realise that the later 1.5 Vtec put out. 130ps I was mixing it up with the earlier 1.5 SOHC. Ah well,....

ondafly

@Tinky - yup thats my engine, in a 1.8 DOHC VTEC Si Integra. 177.9BHP on unleaded petrol - God knows what it would be on 100 Octane, and you do notice a difference in performance when running Super Unleaded (even at 97 Octane)

Ah Ricardo - no one ever said you get zero Economy, but the idea is power from a small engine, as opposed to a huge 3 litre american lump (which would obviously cost a small fortune to run and maintain) - and I quote

The majority of them aren't that powerful, but are designed for economy. Do your research mate.

@Ricardo - As for the article on Asia.VTEC (which is a must read for Honda owners) all references to economy are for the 3 stage VTEC engine (VTEC-E), which as we all know is for Economy. Which I've seen quite a few of on Irish roads.

Shall I quote more from that site ? I think I will

two versions of VTEC D15Bs were developed for the EG-series (1991-1995) Civic. One is the well-knowned VTEC-E which delivered an incredible 20+km/l mileage. The other is the VTEC D15B, a power implementation. The VTEC D15B is a very significant engine variant because Honda used VTEC to make it possible to generate as much power as a DOHC design from its SOHC configuration

A power implementation ! mmm, sounds like economy was top of the list in designing that engine.

As for owning 3 VTEC cars, all being economic, they were 3 CR-Xs (note the spelling), an extremely light car, of course it won't drink petrol when it doesn't have to lug around a tonne weight, or if someone doesn't accelerate past 5000 rpm...

So I end with a request. Please Ricardo , list off all the VTEC engines, with the BHP levels, and show me the majority that aren't powerful.

Gmodified

VTEC-E is designed with economy as the primary goal, not power output.

I am glad that you can google Ondafly

http://www.leecao.com/honda/vtec/sohcvtece.html


Anyway.

1.5 VTEC Engine is an excellent engine, and with some choice modifications can produce more BHP and torque.

It's made for economy not racing and D15Z1 SOHC VTEC-E, 16-Valve, MPFI
has only ~92 bhp. So how sporty is this comparing to b16b

VTEC-E it sucks at moding

ondafly

I never said the VTEC-E was good for modding ??? I said the 1.5 VTEC is. Please read before posting.

Also I didn't need to google at all for that information - as Recardo had posted the link to VTEC ASIA. :rolleyes:

2 versions of VTEC D15Bs exist - one economy , one for power.

As for Magpies general comment - its not just Honda Civics that crash. I've done 1000s of miles all over the country, its all sorts of cars that overtake like idiots with a deathwish - but guess what, its the person behind the wheel thats causes the crash.

Insurance companies rate Civics higher because they are so bloody easy to break into. Later models 96+ have improved on security, and aren't rated so highly.

Gmodified

well, I could be wrong but the most powerful D15 is D15B7 with 102bhp which still sucks at moding.

I hope you Teg is as quick as you ctrl+c/ctrl-v action:D


unless you wrote the engine review here:


So the Civic HX has more power in addition to better fuel economy. But make no mistake, VTEC-E is designed with economy as the primary goal, not power output.
taken from

here

Faltermyer

Originally posted by Gmodified
well, I could be wrong but the most powerful D15 is D15B7 with 102bhp which still sucks at moding.

As has been quoted above, the JDM Civic Vti came with a D15B(not sure on number, think its D15B2-tho there seem to be a Vtec & a non-vtec of this), with 130ps/~127bhp as standard.

And as for only the DOHC Vtec's having "Grunt" - by this I would assume you mean torque? Of which the D16z6('91-95 Civic Esi) actually has pretty reasonable amount.

-At a recent rolling road session, a standard '94 Civic Esi,(1.6SOHC Vtec) got 113.3ft lbs @ 3033 Rpm - yes, I said 3033RPM, not 6000rpm. Not many single cam 1.6 Engines giving that much torque so low down, in fact, thats the sort of peak torque rpm point you would find in many diesels I would think, no?

RicardoSmith

Web Definition: VTEC - Variable Valve Timing and Lift Electronic Control A Honda proprietary system in which cam timing, valve duration and lift is varied according to the needs of the driver -- fuel economy (normal driving) and power (pedal to the metal). Each cam has two profiles and rpm determines the shifting from one profile to the other.

Economy is "one" of the primary features of the engine. How can you ignore that

Like I said I didn't realise there was a version of the SOHC Vtec with 130bhp. I thought they were all about 105. WHich is nippy rather than genuinely quick. I'd assume the 1.8 and 2.2 are a lot quicker, I haven't had much experience of those other than the odd test drive. Maybe I used the word "Powerful" too freely. The smaller capacity engines VTEC produce the peak power very high in the rev range, so a lot of the time you not getting the peak power but a lot less. Unless you drive at max revs all the time!

The bigger engines like the 1.8 and 2.2 are much more powerful and have a lot more torque. I was only talking about the smaller engines.

What Irish models have a VTEC-E ?

RicardoSmith

Originally posted by Faltermyer
...
-At a recent rolling road session, a standard '94 Civic Esi,(1.6SOHC Vtec) got 113.3ft lbs @ 3033 Rpm - yes, I said 3033RPM, not 6000rpm. Not many single cam 1.6 Engines giving that much torque so low down, in fact, thats the sort of peak torque rpm point you would find in many diesels I would think, no?

Well a 1.9 (90bhp) VW diesel gives (148 lbft) @1900 rpm. The TDI would give a lot more. But that a decent figure for the Esi.

Theres too many versions of these engines. But the post about the locks on the Hondas is good to note. All of CRX's could be got into with a screwdriver in abut 10 sec. I think even the NSX of the same era had the same problem with locks. Didn't realise that they had improved them since 96.

I sold my last CRX after I got a renewal quoke for £3k

ondafly

Originally posted by Gmodified
well, I could be wrong but the most powerful D15 is D15B7 with 102bhp which still sucks at moding

Without going into too much detail , 92 Del Sol VXi has a D15 SOHC VTEC, BHP = 128
:rolleyes:

Its Economy with regards to the amount power - you are not going to get 50MPG in a VTEC car, you will get comparable economy to that of a similiar sized engine in other cars, but will outstrip them in power. Thats why Honda created VTEC-E which had a primary goal of Economy first.

Nobody beats Ricardo on Copy/pasting

Faltermyer

Yes, I was more pointing out that for a petrol, and a 1.6, its a very low point in the revs for peak torque and a reasonable peak torque for what it is.

As for breaking into Civics/CRX's with a screwdriver - thats easily fixed - I, and a few others I know have on Civics(91-95, and 96-00),CRXs, and Integras, put rear door handles on the front doors and removed the locking mechanism, thereby ruling out the use of a screwdriver to simply jam into the keyhole - because there no longer is a keyhole! It also looks a little cleaner/nicer as the handle has less to it.

Obviously, central locking is a must if you wish to do this, and it can lead to you having to crawl in through the boot if your battery goes dead!

Gmodified

Nobody beats Ricardo on Copy/pasting





Yeah, I remember now, Few Fierro Vti's had this engine, most of them probably crashed by now

As for breaking into Civics/CRX's with a screwdriver - thats easily fixed - I, and a few others I know have on Civics(91-95, and 96-00),CRXs, and Integras, put rear door handles on the front doors and removed the locking mechanism, thereby ruling out the use of a screwdriver to simply jam into the keyhole - because there no longer is a keyhole! It also looks a little cleaner/nicer as the handle has less to it.

Yeah, you take off rubber window seal, look down the gap and press withe plastic bit with your pen.

Entire process takes 3 sec .

I locked keys in my Crx before

Faltermyer

Originally posted by ondafly
Its Economy with regards to the amount power - ... ... in a VTEC car, you will get comparable economy to that of a similiar sized engine in other cars, but will outstrip them in power.

Exactly!

RicardoSmith

Have to say that all the Honda's I've had over the years were the most fuel efficent than of any other petrol cars I had. Even smaller engined cars. My point was that VTEC was designed with not just power in mind but also economy as the objective.

Though the economy goes out the window if you've a heavy right foot.

Where a good place in Dublin to look for Jap Imports these days?

gwladys boy

whooooooooa

so many replys......obvioulsy alot of honda loons about!

i have only read a few posts, but seems like there is a few people who dont know as much about the honda vtec as they might think

firstly theres a 1.6vtec in my car.....as all esi saloons do. its a sohc vtec, with approx 125bhp. so as others have pointed out, it kicks ass out of most other 1.6 cars on the road......my reason for buying it in the first place!

the car i sold was a civic coupe, 1.6SR, it had a slightly better 1.6 sohc vtec.

i checked the oil today and driving from kerry to mayo and oil level is still at max,......maybe its not as bad as i thought.

RicardoSmith

Originally posted by gwladys boy
firstly theres a 1.6vtec in my car.....as all esi saloons do. its a sohc vtec, with approx 125bhp. so as others have pointed out, it kicks ass out of most other 1.6 cars on the road......

What other 1.6 cars are you talking about?

Jim-SR

no1 has replied completely right yet so il clear it up, theres too many ppl here who dont know what they are talking about tho, the VTEC was NOT built for economy, i can assure you fo that!!!!

lets start with some history...

there has always been a fierce competition between toyota and honda to see who can produced the fastest small engined car in japan

in the 80's toyota created the 4AGE engine, a cheap copy of the Cosworth BDA engine, and ti worked, similar power output and a quarter of the price, it became massively acclaimed!

now at the time honda werent faring so well, and in about 1989 (??) they created their engine to rival it! the B16A was essentially the same engine, but with larger valves, and of course the VTEC system

the idea of of VTEC is you have 2 cams, one is a regular street cam similar to those in every other manufacturers engine, not particularly wild, but good enuff for say 125-135bhp. this cam offers the same economy as any other engine, NOT better! altho hondas have always been renowned for their economy and reliability

the second cam is a much more wild cam! its the sort of cam that used alone on that engine would provide about 160bhp!

now the problem with 160bhp on a 1.6 street-engine is that it doesnt idle particularly fantastically!! also it eats fuel, and ofers very little low end torque! now this isnt good for you typical consumer who doesnt care about performance, they want a car that is comfortable, economical and reliable, but fast enuff that they have somethign to show off in, your typical businessman for example

so in order to keep low end torque, and std economy tehy used the smaller cam, then once you get to the middle of the rev range (4000-5000rpm) you can afford to run a wild cam! so the VTEC switches to the bigger cam!

so as you can see it has no better economy than any other car, and the VTEC system is PURE PERFORMANCE!!!

case closed;)

if any1 would like me to explain the reasons WHY a biger cam is bad at lower revs or any other questions go ahead, i have explanations for it all just lined up in ym head so dont any1 try to be a smartarse

cheers
JIM

ondafly

nice one Jimbo

RicardoSmith

Originally posted by Jim-SR
no1 has replied completely right yet so il clear it up, theres too many ppl here who dont know what they are talking about tho, the VTEC was NOT built for economy, i can assure you fo that!!!!....JIM

Funny how your explanation about VTEC is littered with how economical it is. Yeap they designed it without thinking about economy at all. Its meant to be a complete gas guzzler and all the honda engineers were completely taken by surprise when it turned out to be economical. They didn't expect that at all. So it has absolutely nothing to do with ecomomy what so ever.

No better economically than what else? An MR2, a GTI Golf, a 316i, a Peugeot GTI. Ever owned any of these? Much heavier on juice than a Civic/CRX of the same era. Except when you're airborne or travelling backwards through a hedge.

Yes you answered the original question "wat would you people recommend? can the engine be repaired on the cheap?" really well. Well done. Would you like a gold star?

Jim-SR

i own a toyota MR2 from the same era actually, and its no less economical than any VTEC engine ive ever experienced!

the reason my explanation was littered with the word "economy" was because i was trying to emphasise the fact its WASNT built around economy!!

can you not read? are you a spastic? read the history part, and the part about how the cams work

then go to the library and read a book called "the little blue car" (in the kids section) and improve your knowledge of cars a bit, then come back and resume this argument, because you havent made a single worthy comment yet!

JIM

Jim-SR

Originally posted by Jim-SR
this cam offers the same economy as any other engine, NOT better!

here you go ive picked out the exact part you missed on your first read, look again, FOOL

RicardoSmith

Originally posted by Jim-SR
i own a toyota MR2 from the same era actually, and its no less economical than any VTEC engine ive ever experienced...

So did I, you obviously drive it like a granny. and don't call me actually u muppet.

Heres how it actually works......
http://forums.overclockers.co.uk/showthread.php?s=&threadid=17183438

Jim-SR

on the roads i dont exactly rag it ALL the time, but if i ragged a civic that would give equally poor economy

theres a time and a place for that, and the car gets "driven" a fair bit

but if you care to see just how hard it can be driven id invite you to join me at a track day anytime! ive taught you how VTEC works, maybe i can teach you how to drive too

please dont try and redeem yourself, take this thread as a lesson learned, youve learnt how VTEC really works, and in future make sure youre 100% right before spouting poop, fair enuff get it wrong once, but dont come back and argue your wrong point against ppl who are right! reply AGAIN if you like, but i always have the last word

JIM

Stephen

Jim, take your head out of your arse.

bye now.

Gmodified

Jim u r full of silicon, which is probably brown too

RicardoSmith

..stop it you're too funny...

MojoMaker

Jim-SR, I can't wait unti I meet you on the road and I get to show you what performance is really about....

Man, you're one muppet. I'm surprised you don't have a Twinner.

Got the neon washers yet bud?

Jim-SR

neon washers? im the one who understands how cars work, you mugs dont even know what VTEC is!

im quite happy just working with my engine, dont really need the extra power from those LED washer jets, the quad hayabusa throttle bodies on the custom home-made inlet manifold, the HKS 256/256 cams, and the GReddy e-Manage, all running on a DIY rebuilt bottom end complete with high comp pistons and fully blueprinted block, running a 4agze LSD gearbox on modified driveshafts, and the 2.5" straight thru exhaust system should COMFORTABLY see me whooping your arse on the road, regardless of your car

me with the neon washer jets? call me arrogant, call me what you like really im not easily phased by monkeys calling me names on the internet, but i reckon i know as uch as any1 in here about cars, from what ive seen so far i know more than most ppl, i know what im talking about, im 100% right in EVERYTHING ive said so far, and you just cant handle the fact i speak the truth, and not what your little spastic buddy here thinks, VTEC for economy, hahaha read a book or summin, if you can read

peace out mofo
JIM

ZENER

Nice to see somone standin' by what they say Jm-SR. I was a member of hondaprelude.com while it was active and did a lot of research into V-TEC at the time when I had an Integra SXi 1.6 V-TEC DOHC and to be honest I can't fault anything you've posted so far axcept your methods in getting your points across.

More information about V-TEC can be gleened from templeofvtec.com. Oh how I miss www.hondaprelude.com . . sigh !!!

Honda for ever . . V-TEC is king !:D now if only I could afford an S2000 !

Tinky

Quatre Mains

Originally posted by Jim-SR
im quite happy just working with my engine, dont really need the extra power from those LED washer jets, the quad hayabusa throttle bodies on the custom home-made inlet manifold, the HKS 256/256 cams, and the GReddy e-Manage, all running on a DIY rebuilt bottom end complete with high comp pistons and fully blueprinted block, running a 4agze LSD gearbox on modified driveshafts, and the 2.5" straight thru exhaust system should COMFORTABLY see me whooping your arse on the road, regardless of your car ....

peace out mofo
JIM

Wow
never has the term Cool Newbie been more appropriate. You really showed them there :rolleyes:

RicardoSmith

It obviously is a problem for some reason to think that an high performance engine can be designed to also be ecomomical.

Personally putting more time, money and effort into a car that that car is worth, doesn't make sense to me. Especially as theres nowhere in this country you can enjoy the performance unless its on a very rare track day. I hate to think what the insurance costs for those mods. You'd run a decent Porsche for the same money, that you could take cross euro for some decent driving. Alternatively you could go racing properly. Either would be much cooler IMO.

But hey if Max Power mods are your thing, then that fair enough. Each to their own. But the whole challenging people to race is a bit 2 Fast and Furious for me.

Jim-SR

max power mods? you really dont have a clue!!

when its finished my car is gonna be pushing around 160bhp with the potential to make almost 200bhp with a bigger cam, at the cost of driveability of course with nasty idle and further reduced fuel economy

considering i have 122bhp to begin with, thats a tad more than the average max power boy makes with an induction kit and a stainles exhaust!!

you clearly have no idea at all, if i could afford a porsche id have a GT2, i cant, so i drive an £800 MR2, spend a few grand on it, im capapble of doing most the work myself, and im left with a car making 100bhp/litre!

now name me a non-VVT/VTEC production car that makes 100bhp/litre out of the factory? i bet you cant name a single one! and if you can it will be a £25k+ sports/super car

i doubt you even know what quad throttle bodies are, youre one of these irritating ppl who thinks they know EVERYTHING about cars, yet they have never even dabbled in tuning them as theyd rather drive a std car that was nice to start with. you take your car to a dealership for repairs, and you always get the optional leather interior as an extra.

theres only so much you can know about a car without knowing how it can be made better. thats the reason Jeremy Clarkson talks so much crap, cos he has no idea about tuning cars, contrary to what ppl think! Tiff Needell however does know his stuff, hence why hes a better car presenter than Clarkson(even if Clarkson does have the better humour)

now please dont make me humiliate you any more, you lost this argument about 3 posts ago, so start a new thread about something you know, and remember not to spout **** about cars next time unless you understand how it works first!

JIM

ZENER

Jim, you're like a breath of fresh air around here. There's too many self appointed experts around here sometimes. Oh and by the way about your question of bhp/ltr production car - Mazda RX8 I think, I know it's a sports car but a mervel of technology though !!

Tinky

Jim-SR

its also got a rotary engine lol

RicardoSmith

Well you seem intend on shifting this from being a discussion about cars to a some sort of pissing contest, with you spouting off data left right and center, and randomly insults for some bizarre reason. Regardless if its on post or not. I'm happy you like the MR2, I had 16v T-Bar and a supercharger one in the past. Bit of pain to drop the tank out of them for some jobs. But otherwise a great handling car, better then most other cars. But then I'm a big fan of mid engined cars. Depsite your fertile imagination I'm not a fan of dealers myself, but then not everone has the time to be self indulgent and spend lots of their time and money on modifying a 10 year old, car. Each to their own. I note that in post you say your fuel economy suffered with the mods, but further back you say its the same as any VTEC you ever had. Your My own experience was that the Mr2 at stock was heavier on juice than the equivlent DOHC and DOHC VTEC I had. But then the CRX's I had were lighter, Since I deliberately picked ones that had few of the optional extras on them. The MR2 I prefered in every way except the leaky seals on the T-Bar roof, and the rush catcher rear arches. Everyone I've ever seen started to rust, whereas the CRX's and Civics don't if looked after. I'm also a big fan of tiff and can't stand clarkson. I have a collection of Tiffs best moments on Video, my fav being him test driving the 360 around the Ferrari test track. I don't have my top trumps handy here, but I'm sure I wouldn't be able to beat you listing stats on various cars. That just wouldn't float my boat. But if you think its a cool think to do then go for it. Be interesting to hear what you think about all VTEC's and modded up Toyotas, after you've bought something a bit bigger and better in a few years times. I wonder if you'll still have the sneering pompous attitude then. But who cares TBH.

kdevitt

The VEi and ETi were the only real versions to use VTEC purely for economy, the others were designed to squeeze as much power as possible from a relatively small displacement N/A engine..for instance - the D15B engine (1.5 SOHC) produces the same amount of power as the previous ZC engine (1.6 DOHC) the low/mid cam profile ensures the car is driveable under normal conditions, economy is more of a by-product - in much the same way as the Duel VANOS system on the BMW M5/M3 acts - all engines are designed to be as economical as possible my manufacturers, but the point is that power, not economy was their goal...

RicardoSmith

Why use a small capacity engine?

Jim-SR

to compete with toyota!

toyota designed the 4age engine for race purposes, it was a cheap alternative the the cosworth BDA engine, Honda created the b16 to proove that they could go one better than their arch rival

Jim-SR

then toyota created the 20v VVT 4age engine and honda didnt even try that, they just made the civic type-r lol

RicardoSmith

For those that are interested I found this site explains the workings of VTEC.

My point of view is...

"If high speed operation is all we have to worry about, Honda wouldn't need to implement VTEC. Indeed, race engines that operate mostly at high rpms do not utilize any mechanism like VTEC. But street cars used for daily driving spend most of
their time with the engine at low RPMs. Valves that open wide for high RPM operation contributes to rough operation and poor fuel economy at low RPMs. These undesirable traits are directly against Honda's design goals"

http://www.leecao.com/honda/index.html

He explains it better than I can.