New PC , need help

T-b0n3

looking to upgrade to new rig soon , got sum money saved up + birthday money on way etc.
this will be the first attemp at building my own comp hence , need the help :>
trying to keep the budget at bout 1000yoyos aint to rigid tho.
mainly a gaming pc. this wut i got so far, pls give suggestions , point out my errors etc. and aint to interesed in overclocking , probs f*ck it up tbh

Intel Pentium 4 2.6GHz (800FSB) with HT Technology - Retail (CP-025-IN)
http://www.overclockers.co.uk/acatalog/Online_Catalogue_Intel_CPUs_15.html
bout 188 yoyos

Creative Sound Blaster Audigy 2 - OEM (SC-015-CL)
http://www.overclockers.co.uk/acatalog/creative_soundcards.html
77euro

Kingston HyperX 512MB (2x256MB) DDR PC2700 (KHX2700K2/512) CAS2.0 Dual Channel Kit (MY-005-KS)
http://www.overclockers.co.uk/acatalog/Kingston.html
E122

Sapphire ATI Radeon 9600XT 256MB DDR TV-Out/DVI & Half Life 2 Bundle - Retail (GX-040-SP)
http://www.overclockers.co.uk/acatalog/sapphire_ati_graphics_cards.html
190yoyos


Also my comp atm is a dell comp , p4 1.8 384ram geoforce2 mx400 , bout how much culd i sell for?

ta in advance , adam

bus77

Ive heard that PC3200 ram matches up perfect with the 800 fsp on those pentiums.

T-b0n3

kk n1 ta ill ave a look

unkel

Originally posted by bus77
Ive heard that PC3200 ram matches up perfect with the 800 fsp on those pentiums.

No. The whole point about the pentium 4c is that it is extremely easy to overclock. With a decent motherboard (you don't mention any - why?) and good ram you can easily get a 25% overclock even with standard (stock) cooling

If you want a pc to run at the speed of a pentium 4c 3000, you buy a pentium 4c 2400 and overclock it. Your memory needs to be min PC4000 for this or you can try overclocking very good PC3700+ memory

Having said all that you state that it is mainly for gaming. In that case you'd be a fool not to go for an athlon 64 bit cpu and motherboard

PS my answer to the above quote would be yes, perfect if you had no intention to overclock

T-b0n3

well aint just for gaming but mainly , and if overclocking is that easy i may as well i suppose ( altho heard that takes life expectantcy off comp and more chance of breakdown etc? that true? )

and an amd64bit best for gaming?

reason i didnt mention mobo is cuz i really dont have much of a clue and know u lot know better :>

adam

bus77

A p4 2.6 is fast, personaly I dont see the need to overclock. Its not coz Its hard either, the simple reason is... it's the road to the mad house.

The minute you start makin little tweaks to the fsb ect you start checkin scores on systmark to see just how much faster it is, the quick start up time you were perfectly happy with before, becomes an ice age, every little half second system hang becomes a minute in yur head as your constanly thinking "Could this be a bit faster?"

Unkel is a perfect example of this illness.
The reason why he recomends an amd64bit is because thats what HE wants , he has a top of the range system but he's already lookin at what the guy accross the street has.
People who get into overclockin are NEVER happy with their systems.

unkel

Originally posted by T-b0n3
altho heard that takes life expectantcy off comp and more chance of breakdown etc? that true?

The point about OCing your system is that you OC it as far as it can go without compromising your needs. By definition then, it will not crash your system more than without OCing. If you overclock by increasing the voltage sent to your cpu, then yes, it will decrease the life of the cpu. This is a relative thing however. Let's put in an example. If you increase the voltage of a P4 from 1.5v to 1.7v, the life expectancy might go down from 20 to 4 years. In 4 years time this cpu will have an economic value of about €10 independent of it having been overclocked or not

My two cents on the theory of (economic) relativity anyway

Originally posted by T-b0n3
and an amd64bit best for gaming?

YES - beating intel hands down

Woden

T-b0n3 your system is probably fine, why are you upgrading apart from the fact you have the money?

my advice spend €200 now on a decent graphics card radeon 9600XT and your system will last another year no bother. then with €200 less in your pocket in a years time you will be able to buy a better system with €200 less then you could now with the €200 extra

the only problem with your current system is the graphics

if your dead set on upgrading, go to www.overclockers.co.uk go to the forums and ask them to spec you a system for £700 put in any individual requirements you have etc. and they'll pull you together a nice system

data

unkel

Dohhhh, my last post crossed yours bus77 - but let me reply to your post here

Originally posted by bus77
Unkel is a perfect example of this illness.
The reason why he recomends an amd64bit is because thats what HE wants , he has a top of the range system but he's already lookin at what the guy accross the street has.

No you're wrong here, but please read on, I considered going either P4c or amd 64 bit. Chose the former. I'm not much of a gamer and I reckoned the P4c with substantial overclock would be more aligned with what I was looking for, especially fast encoding and hyperthreading

Originally posted by bus77
A p4 2.6 is fast, personaly I dont see the need to overclock. Its not coz Its hard either, the simple reason is... it's the road to the mad house.

The minute you start makin little tweaks to the fsb ect you start checkin scores on systmark to see just how much faster it is, the quick start up time you were perfectly happy with before, becomes an ice age, every little half second system hang becomes a minute in yur head as your constanly thinking "Could this be a bit faster?"

[Humble]
Very sound and wise words there bus77 - food for contemplation for myself. I do need a solid and very fast system, but I could do without having an obsession about how far I can possibly take it. I admit I have already spent way too much time trying to clock the system to the very limit - What the hell for indeed? I'll stick to an easy and solid overclock that would satisfy my needs

I was disappointed to not having reached the 4GHz mark stable, but WTF, who cares. I'm doing myself more harm than good with this attitude. Thanks again bus77 for your post
[/Humble]

T-b0n3

yes ur right one reason 4 my upgrade is becuz i have the money but as u sed i need a new gfx card ne way , and my sound card sucks etc. figured easy to just do full upgrade and sell this one off and get a few bob for it while its actually worth a bit.

How much wuld u think i culd get for this comp anyway? (estimate)

and while the amd 64bit is ahead of intel in games , is it much behind on other things? like is the pro bigger then the con? like HT? and wut one u mean ? amd 64bit 3000/3200 or the FX1 cuz thats like 550sterling on overclockers :E

ta for all help so far keep it up
adam

Dempsey

If your sticking with the 2.6c id recommend the Abit IC7-G MAX2, Abit IC-7G MAX3 or the Asus P4C800-E Deluxe. They are the only three boards that should be on your shortlist. Get P3200 RAM aswell, dont touch anything lower than it and make sure your buying a matching pair. To use Hyper Threading you'll need Xp Home or XP Pro. or else you'll have to disable it. W2K runs like a 3 legged dog with HT.

As for 64-bit CPU's, Id stay away from them until next christmas. intel v amd will be in full flow again and they will be mainstream by then and they wont cost as much.

T-b0n3

aight cheers , any ideas on case , i like the thermeltake ones tbh , but alot of peeps saying lanfire look tacty etc , and the others are huge and way loads. wut u suggest?

and ne ideas how much i culd sell mu current rig for?

cheers , adam

Dempsey

Post the full spec of what your selling and we'll see what you should expect for it.

What do you want in a case? eg Side Panel, load of cooling, flash colour, lightweight, LCD display, CCFL's, expansion ability, easy access, etc

I had a quick look around and if I had the money id go for a Globalwin GAT-001 v.2 Aluminium Case (CA-008-GL) and you'll have to get a seperate PSU, Id recommend a Antec TruePower 430W PSU

Its high cost but you'll be smiling from ear to ear with it.

T-b0n3

its a dell dimension 4400 wiv p4 1.8
256k sound down wiv floppy drive
384MB 266mhz DDR RAM memory
40GB IDE (5400 RPM) Hard Drive
24 x CDRW and 16 X DVD
UK/IRISH - 17in Value midnight gret (E771A) Moniter
64MB GeoForce2 MX400 wiv TVOUT Video Card
Harmon Kardon 395 Midnight grey speakers
Lux- V.92 data/fax/voice internal modem

Cost me1863.41 from Dell bout 1.5 years ago (april 02)
(all read of order form thingy)

yea dempsey that case looks nice, ta.

p4 or amd 64bit tho ? :E

cheers adam

Dempsey

Stick with the P4's. better performance/cost ratio than the 64-bit CPU's

Dunno what price id put on your system. Check the for sale forum and see what people are selling systems for

T-b0n3

k cheers again .

PSU
be quiet! Power Supply Unit 370W Colorline Ultra Silent PFC
http://www.hitide.ie/catalog/product_info.php/products_id/102
E74.90 euro

this gud buy? or ne thing better?

ne ideas on ram ? PC4000 at least? bout 512? or wuld i need a gig
cpu cooler/ fans ?

adam

unkel

If you're spending €75 on a PSU, you can't do better than buying a Fortron 400W. It's nearly identical to the Zalman 400W but a bit cheaper. Both actually produce 450W. Google for where you can buy it

The ram needs to be PC4000 minimum to get your 1000FSB, if you want to experiment clocking higher, you'd be better of with PC4200 and / or memory that is still fully guaranteed under overclock. I bought a few weeks ago after doing solid research of reviews on the web and found that the OCZ EL 4200 is the very best available (matched kit 2*256MB for €216 from shop4memory.co.uk in Celbridge, they ship for free). If you need 1GB, you'll have to dig deep m8

T-b0n3

kk cheers unkel advice taken

btw i aint ever tried but how u overclock? easy for a nub?
and i cant fu*k it up? e break comp/parts ?

adam

M@lice

I heard that the best price/performance ratio is still with the amd non 64. So i was thinkin if you were to get this instead of the p4 you could use the cash you save to get a radeon 9800 Which gives you a chance of softmoddin to 9800 pro. I'd say any1 here who had to choose between amd 9800 pro and p4 9600 would go with the former. Now i could stand to b corrected and i know there's no guarantee you could softmod but i'd certainly give it a go. I'm not sure which 9800 it is to get either. the standard or the se. Maybe sum1 else can tell you that.

Dempsey

Originally posted by T-b0n3
kk cheers unkel advice taken

btw i aint ever tried but how u overclock? easy for a nub?
and i cant fu*k it up? e break comp/parts ?

adam

Overclocking stresses components more thus reducing the MTBF(Mean Time Between Failure). The only way to avoid damaging stuff, you'll need better heat disapation. You'll need to montior your temperatures while putting the system under full load if the temperature gets too high you'll need to reduce the overclock or get better cooling. Dont have components running near their max. temp on the spec sheets. (eg P4 max temp is 75'C but ya shouldnt be going over 60'C)

Sorry, What I mean was that the P4 has a better Performance/Cost Ratio than the Athlon64. The Athlon Xp 2600+ offers the best Performance/Cost Ratio full stop

T-b0n3

but u think its worth doing? as i havent done it b4 and aint too sure how , or is the chance of me breaking sumthing stilll very slim?

ne thoughts on moniters? tft vs crt ? :E

adam

Dempsey

I havent gotten around to overclocking myself because ill need to get a better Heatsinkfan and ill need to invest in some thermal paste so ill wont be answering that question for ya.

I have a 17" TFT, i find it handy when movin the pc from location to location, very small and light. Picture will be more or less the same but a TFT is easier on your eyes. If ya have the cash get yourself a TFT instead but there is nothing wrong with CRT's.

T-b0n3

for gaming tho?
it make much of a diff? and wut specs wuld i need , refresh rate etc.

thx's again adam

silverside

adam,

I would find your posts a lot easier to read if you used normal English instead of text-speak.

Sir Random

P4s are great for o/cing but unless you have good quality ram that can handle high fsb with tight timings, the performance increase will be restricted. Ideally PC3200/PC3500 with winbond BH5 chips (if you can find any) or CH5.

A lot depends on what mobo you get. As suggested already, either an Abit IC7 Max3 or an Asus P4C800-E Deluxe, but you'll need to understand ram timings and be prepared to try multiple settings of PAT/GAT to find your setup's sweetspot.

T-b0n3

kk cheers 4 all help lads.

ideas on moniter?

adam

unkel

Originally posted by silverside
adam,

I would find your posts a lot easier to read if you used normal English instead of text-speak.

Couldn't agree more with you silverside. FFS let's all communicate properly and avoid the headache

That text-speak sh*te makes you sound like an 11 year old :mad:

zAbbo

Originally posted by T-b0n3
for gaming tho?
it make much of a diff? and wut specs wuld i need , refresh rate etc.

thx's again adam

makes you sound like a right fag

unkel

T-b0n3,

If your main consideration is gaming, then your best options are based on:

1. athlon 2500 o/c to 3200 with 9800 pro or xt
2. athlon 64 with 9800 pro or xt

As for monitor, I'd strongly recommend top of the range 21"CRT. It will be a while yet for a TFT to beat this, although it will happen

T-b0n3

k cheers unkel illl look into that

helpful comments bazH , ta

adam

unkel

so you're not taking into consideration the suggestions about your communications then are you?

zAbbo

Ive been reading this thread for the past day or two, some posters have taken the time to reply to your incoherrent drivel, the least you could do is type properly,

T-b0n3

yes bazH i realise that alot of people have , and i appreciated it alot and , i will try and speak properly now didnt realise annoied anyone sorry.


is the amd2500 btr to get then a p42.6 wiv HT?
and is the 9800xt far supuerior to the 9600xt cuz there is a significant price difference.

atm ive got :
case >> Globalwin GAT-001 v.2 Aluminium Case (CA-008-GL)
moniter >> 21" good quaility one
memory >> 512 EL DDR RAM PC4200 DDR533 OCZ) 533Mhz
gfx >> 9800xt 256mb
sound card >> Creative Soundblaster Audigy 2

adam

unkel

Originally posted by T-b0n3
yes bazH i realise that alot of people have , and i appreciated it alot and , i will try and speak properly now

Grand

Originally posted by T-b0n3
didnt realise annoied anyone sorry.

Ann what?

Originally posted by T-b0n3
is the amd2500 btr to get then a p42.6 wiv HT?

Are you really trying?

unkel

I'd love to get a P42 - we might have to wait until the year 2087 though and I'll be dead by then

Woden

Originally posted by bazH
makes you sound like a right fag

regardless of his methods to communicate that is uncalled for

T-b0n3, did you go to www.overclockers.co.uk and get em to spec ya a system?
i'm off to do it now for ya anyway



you may also want to consider keeping your current monitor and putting the money into other hardware parts instead.

T-b0n3

cheers data , i looked and didnt see any one else doing it and didnt know what forum to post the thread in.

hows this sound?
Abit IC7
pentium4 2.6 with Hyper threading
9800 XT
Creative Soundblaster Audigy 2
Globalwin GAT-001 v.2 Aluminium Case (CA-008-GL)
2x 256Mb EL DDR RAM PC4200 DDR533 OCZ 533Mhz, 184 pins, 64 bit, CAS2.5, 4-4-7
21" moniter
120gb maxtor

adam

Woden

i lashed it in general hardware but haven't got any replies on it yet

http://forums.overclockers.co.uk/showthread.php?threadid=17171366

you can keep an eye on it here

you above spec looks good imo, check out the coolermaster black widow case on overclockers there very popular nice case also

T-b0n3

cheers data , appriciated mate

adam

Col_Loki

makes you sound like a right fag

Ive been reading this thread for the past day or two, some posters have taken the time to reply to your incoherrent drivel, the least you could do is type properly,

bazH to be honest the most drivel seems to be comming from your direction, theres absolutly no need for that.
Your 2 comments are unhelpfull and frankly unwanted, it wouldnt be as bad if you phrased it differently or had actually given some advise (ie actually had a reason for complaning) .

If he shortens his words so what, we know what hes trying to say........ it can be confusing enough when your spending alot of money and with alot of suggestions flying around its hard to choose.

Fair play to you T-b0n3 for taking that so well, most of us arent that cranky around here.

Loki

T-b0n3

cheers loki , thanks for supported.

anyways , was looking at ati 9800 on komplett.
the card below is only 266euro
http://www.komplett.ie/k/ki.asp?action=info&sku=120304&p=&t=&l=&AvdID=1&CatID=24&GrpID=1&cks=SER

while this card is 447euro , and the only difference being "all in wonder" in the name? big preformance difference?
http://www.komplett.ie/k/ki.asp?action=info&sku=120329&p=&t=&l=&AvdID=1&CatID=24&GrpID=1&cks=SER

whats ur opinons on best preformance/cost ratio 9800 card?

ta for all the help so far
adam

Woden

the all in wonder (aiw) doesn't give you any extra performance but extra features like a tv tuner and stuff like that. i don't think its worth the extra €180

i have that powercolor card and its a great card for a great price, not sure if its worth paying the extra for the XT version don't think you get the performance increase for the amount of money you'll put into it, probably better with a gig of ram instead of a half gig

price performance ratio of the radeon 9800 pro for that price is great i think

netman

Here's my 2 cents...

Athlon64 is a great performer, unfortunately the software support for 64-bit applications is pretty non-existent at the moment, and the motherboards/chipsets are at a very early stage where they lack advanced features and stability. It needs to mature.

P4 has been around for a long time, motherboards and chipsets have matured and software support has been around for ages. Don't count on Hyperthreading bringing you any benefits, it's improves performance in cases where no performance boost is needed (office etc). In games, it makes absolutely no difference, and in some cases it's faster with Hyperthreading turned off. In general, it's a marketing trick more than anything else.

If you're stuck for cash, you can go with an nForce2/Athlon XP combo, it's great value for money.

If you wanna go down the pentium way, don't buy a P4C. Wait another two weeks, Prescott's are coming out in february, with new instructions and twice the cache size of the current Pentium4. They will cost exactly the same, have 800 Mhz bus and support Hyperthreading.

In terms of overclocking, it's a thing of personal preference. Some people just want out-of-the-box solution, and will buy a Dell. Nothing wrong with that. Others prefer to tweak their system to get the most out of it, and yes, generally speaking, you're never happy. If you're somewhere in the middle, then you'll probably be very happy that you got the performance of a 3.2 GHz Pentium 4 from a measly 2.6 GHz chip, and just leave it at that until you upgrade.

Memory. For Pentium4's it actually makes more sense (even though most people won't say it, or don't know about it) to run a slower memory with faster timings. The performance difference isn't great, but in general a faster memory with slower timings costs more - so that's a good reason not to fall for the marketing stories.

Motherboard recommendations you got are great. If you don't need all the bells and whisles (RAID, firewire etc), you can go for IC7 instead of IC7-G or IC7-MAX3. It costs less, and uses the same chipset, just doesn't come with all the extras.

And don't forget a good power supply. Even if you bought the best components out there you might have no end of problems if you put a poor power supply at the heart of your system. It's worth spending another 50 yoyo's to get a decent power supply that can keep the beast satisfied.

You got some good choices there, and I'm sure you'll be really happy with your new rig!

T-b0n3

k cheers netman , think ill have to stick wiv 512ram for the moment , aint got the cash for 1gb.

wont be buying comp that soon(bout a month) , so i can wait and see that prescott cpu.

adam

zAbbo

hmm not often i give my advice(without charging)

here goes, best advice is write down what you want your new pc to do, what your budget is, what you may upgrade in the future

Prolly the best bang for buck at the moment is nForce2/Athlon combo. Look for a 2500+(barton) chip, twin this with a good quality Heatsink and fan as well as at least pc3200 Ram(400mhz), look for cl values(the lower the better).

If you see some component you like, stick it into google along with "review". Always a good idea to go with a well supported motherboard, check out the manufacturers website. The money saved on the mobo/chip can goto a good Graphics card, again if you`re on a budget look for a Radeon 9600 at least(note the ram speed, not the ram amount)

T-b0n3

k cheers bazH ill have a look now

adam

Woden

system posted check the o/c thread

T-b0n3

cheers m8

adam

T-b0n3

k after looking at that post on overclockers i think ive got a decent system :E
tell me what you think and what i should/need to change and if its okay for overclocking.
I think all of the items are on overclockers.

Case >> Globalwin GAT-001 v.2 Aluminium Case (CA-008-GL) - E135

Sound Card >> Creative Soundblaster Audigy 2 PCI soundcard w/1394,THX, DD EX6.1, Bulk - E75

GFX Card >> PowerColor Radeon 9800 Pro 128MB - Retail (GX-006-PC) - E300

Mother Board >> Asus A7N8X-E Deluxe nForce2 (Socket A) Motherboard (MB-050-AS)
- E117

CPU >> AMD Athlon "Barton" XP2800+ 333FSB (Socket A) CPU - Retail (CP-041-AM) - E136

Memory >> TwinMOS 512MB (2x256MB) DDR PC3200 Dual Channel Kit (MY-006-TM) - E85

Hard Drive >> Samsung SP1213C 120GB - OEM (HD-011-SA) - E100

Cooler >> Coolermaster Aero 7 Lite (Socket A) (HS-007-CM) - E20

Arctic Silver 5 Thermal Compound (3.5g) (AC-000-AC) - E10

Total >> E978
probs going to keep current 17" dell moniter

can ne one suggest cheap + quiet psu to suit rig?

cheers again adam ( tried to speak propper english )

zAbbo

Nice system, i have the 80gb version of that HDD, very quiet. Im thinking for a nice little system you might consider a Shuttle PC

http://www.overclockers.co.uk/acatalog/Online_Catalogue_Shuttle_102.html

I have the Shuttle Spacewalker XPC SN45G, as do a few other boards people. Im very pleased with it and its performance.

Woden

eh you got a psu in that case?

also note he probably took his prices form www.overclockers.co.uk that powercolor card is cheaper on komplett. a number of people would recommend the abit nf7-s as as the best nforce 2 motherboard

usually i'd suggest a 2500+ and overclock it but you mentioned ya don't want to overclock also the multis are locked the new 2500+ so you might be better with a higher multi on the 2800+ and try to overclock that to 200mhz fsb

col_loki will let ya know whats best here