Garda on Primetime

SuperStudent

I didn't see the Primetime last night but it seems like everyone else has.
Some of the storys are mind-boggling. Two girls battered and thrown all
over the place at Store St. Three young lads who were seen on CCTV passing
a car in singlefile and not even touching the car, however the Gardai accused
them of breaking a wing mirror and beat on of them black and blue. In Both of these
cases the Garda were not even inspected and the injured and perfectly innocent parties were brought to court, only to have the case thrown out.
These bog savages are invincible, they seem to get away with anything. Even some EU commision has investigated them 2 or 3 times, but no doubt from top to bottom the Garda watch each other's backs so they too can assault without cause someone when they feel frustrated. It's a disgrace.
Anyone got any storys about themselfs or friends getting the Garda treatment?

Sleipnir

Yeah, my uncle (retired garda) went to help some young fella who was getting the lard kicked out of him by six other lads.
He managed to pull him out and the young fella limped off but then the gang turned their attention to my uncle who

1.) lost a testicle
2.) Was unconscious for 5 days.
3.) In hospital for over a month
4.) heart stopped twice in the ambulance
5.) Will have a limp until the day he dies

Just to say that they are not all bad people who do things for a laugh.
not to excuse those aholes on th T.V. last night but's let's try to keep some perspective here.

SuperStudent

Wether or not your Uncle was a Garda is neither here nor there. Your Uncle obviously was a decent man, but that has nothing to do with the Garda. I know people who acted like the good samaritan and tried to help someone when they were being assaulted only to receive a proper kicking and they weren't Gardai. I never said the Garda are evil, what I meant to say is that they are frustrated country folk who just want to beat the living sh*t out of people because dealing with a problem in a proper manner is just too musch effort.

daveg

Kananga firstly man condolences for your uncle. Your absolutely right... the majority of garda's do a fantastic job. However my own feelings were the program last night (brilliant btw) was damming on 2 points:

Firstly the abuse of Garda powers by a small minority of garda's
and more importantly the absolute shambles and disgraceful running of the complaints board.

The story's last night was dreadful and extremely damaging to the Garda's. I thought it was made even worse by that complete moron who is the assistant Garda commissioner (head of Garda human resources). Especially when the reporter referred to a specific case that was shown to be an extreme case of Garda brutality and the reporter had proof of such with 2 phone calls (sorry my memory is hazy) to which the moron admitted no phone call had been made to the person who made the complaint as part of the investigation and that even though the Garda's had made a formal apology and settled out of court no charges and or punishment had been given to the Garda's in question. I think the figure was 6000 complaints received against Garda brutality ect and only 2 Garda's had been disciplined (1 received a warning and 1 a fine).

Sleipnir

Ah it wasn't directed at you superstudent, just so people don't forget, that's all.

I have another story from the other side of the fence.

My parents friends were going away for two weeks and decided to leave their 15 year old daughter at home by herself (after much pleading from her that she was old enough)
She had a bit of a party, nothing huge but these knackers showed up and it all got a bit much for her so she told everyone to leave, which they did.

She called our house at around 1 in the morning to say that the knackers had come back and where trying to break in to the house (she was on her own so obviously terrified)
She had called the Gardai but wanted me to go down as well.
I ran down the road to her house ready to lump heads but when they saw me coming at them roaring like a bull they ran like fcuk.

45 minutes after she had called saying
"I'm 15, on my own and there are a gang of lads trying to break into my house"
the Gardai show up.

45 MINUTES LATER!

I couldn't believe it, anything could have happened. And the copshop is only 10 minutes away.
Loads of damage done, broken patio door window, huge dent in the bonnet of a car (from a rock) garden furniture thrown around.

I'll never get over the 45 minutes. Where the hell were they?

tinkerbell

Typical, some of them are jus down-right lazy!

I had a good experience with a Garda. About a year ago, I got mugged & my phone was stolen so I rang the guards. One of 'em was a detective, and he actually tried for months to get the phone back, I think he still is - and they know the person who has it, they jus have to literally catch him. I didn't think they'd really bother since it was *only* a phone, even if I didn't get it back, twas still comforting knowing that they tried their best.

D-!

http://www.rte.ie/news/2004/0108/primetime.html

you can see the whole show here, if you missed it.

Ive had two dealings with the guards
1st time:
i was babysitting i was 14 and a rock came smashing through the back window it was the back room and it was locked i didnt know whether someone had broke the window to get in to the house or what i was terrified. i rang the guards first, then i rang my family and the people i was babysitting for. 4 hours later the guards still hadnn't arrived and were rang subsequently 5 times. the nest which was about 12 hours later they arrived. Some help they would have been to me if somebody was in the room.


2nd time:
It didnt happen to me as such but i was there all the time it happened to my boyfriend.

we were stopped for tax and insurance and the guard asked him to produce his licence and insurance cert within ten days (this was before you had to carry your licence with you) so he produced three hours later, this was fine, then three months later he received a summons in the door for not producing the documents and a court date was set which we were due to go on holidays that week. so we tried to sort it out with the guards we went to the station were he produced and they confirmed it. then we went to the station were the guard that stopped us was from and he was out sick we explained the situation to the guards at the desk and they were so ignorant and would not hep us at all and told him that if he didnt arrive in court he would be arrested the second he got off the plane (thats if he went on the holiday) The guard in question was off sick "until further notice but he would definately turn up in court" is what we were told. So he went to court and it was struck out after five minutes and he missed out on his holiday.

Arse*oles

slieveb

Originally posted by SuperStudent
I didn't see the Primetime last night but it seems like everyone else has.

No you were probably watching BBC like everyone else in West Britannia. Don't in anyway condone police brutality but I'd hate to spend my life chasing thievin Dublin junkies....what a kip.

Sleipnir

Originally posted by slieveb
No you were probably watching BBC like everyone else in West Britannia. Don't in anyway condone police brutality but I'd hate to spend my life chasing thievin Dublin junkies....what a kip.

I didn't see the Primetime last night but it seems like everyone else has.

From that sentence you assume he's from Dublin?
Or is the big chip on your shoulder blocking your view?

slieveb

Originally posted by Kananga
From that sentence you assume he's from Dublin?
Or is the big chip on your shoulder blocking your view?

I would have thought the mucksavages comment was a bit of a giveaway.

No bones about it, I have several chips on my shoulders. One is for condescending Dublin idiots, another is for people who start discussions based on hearsay.

SuperStudent

Originally posted by slieveb
No you were probably watching BBC like everyone else in West Britannia. Don't in anyway condone police brutality but I'd hate to spend my life chasing thievin Dublin junkies....what a kip.

Oh dear it's another junior republican. Are you wearing your sunglasses and beret in the safety of your Co. Clare house? If your such a real Irishman, then you probably just have the 4 channels yeah? If I were you I would boycott TV3. They are part owned by UTV. Those horrid orange people stole all our spuds. Cretin.

How dare you suggest all Dubs are junkies and west brits. If you must know, the reason I didn't see it was because I was busy being chased by Gardai after robbing a crate of England jerseys from Lifestyle sports.. :rolleyes:

leonotron

Originally posted by slieveb
I would have thought the mucksavages comment was a bit of a giveaway.

No bones about it, I have several chips on my shoulders. One is for condescending Dublin idiots, another is for people who start discussions based on hearsay.

So are we to assume your bog swogler yourself?

SuperStudent

Originally posted by slieveb
I would have thought the mucksavages comment was a bit of a giveaway.

No bones about it, I have several chips on my shoulders. One is for condescending Dublin idiots, another is for people who start discussions based on hearsay.

ha ha ha, here we have it. The top of the pile, a real intellect. Oh how mommy must be proud, where is she now? Kneedeep in cowpats chasing a sheep?
Based on hearsay! Will you get your head out the cows arse and cop on.
Are you saying these people on Primetime where liars? I get it, your a wannabe Garda aren't you?

the Guru

My god the Head of HR Guy Nicie what a plonker he was stummed on each Question I thought a one stage he was going to explode the lies coming from him

SuperStudent

Originally posted by slieveb
No bones about it, I have several chips on my shoulders.

Are you a member of mensa?

Metallicababe

Some knackers need a clip round the ear sometimes!!!

Sleipnir

Originally posted by slieveb
No bones about it, I have several chips on my shoulders. One is for condescending Dublin idiots, another is for people who start discussions based on hearsay.

I have one for people who post to start flame wars and have nothing substantial to say on the subject in question. Afterall, you've said nothing about what was in the programme yourself have you?

heresay? He didn't see the programme, said so but his description of the stories shown on Primetime last night was correct and accurate.
He asked for others to post their stories too. There was no heresay whatsoever in what he said.

I suggest we ignore the tired 'Country Folk Vs City Folk' argument and get on with
the Primetime programme.

If you've nothing to say about the programme itself, or other interesting stories of your own dealings with the Gardai, begone.

slieveb

Originally posted by SuperStudent
Oh dear it's another junior republican. Are you wearing your sunglasses and beret in the safety of your Co. Clare house? If your such a real Irishman, then you probably just have the 4 channels yeah? If I were you I would boycott TV3. They are part owned by UTV. Those horrid orange people stole all our spuds. Cretin.

How dare you suggest all Dubs are junkies and west brits. If you must know, the reason I didn't see it was because I was busy being chased by Gardai after robbing a crate of England jerseys from Lifestyle sports.. :rolleyes:

Hilarious. Consistency wouldn't be your strong point I'd say. You start off by labelling Guards as mucksavages (without having seen the programme, or without having any idea where the offending officers were from), a few posts later you're shouting "How dare you suggest all Dubs are junkies and west brits" . Then having plunged the depths of righteous indignation, you opt for sarcasm "I was robbing England jerseys". Or maybe you're making a confession. Hard to know. And very hard to take seriously anything you say.

PS: I will admit to being intrigued by your hypothesis that referring to Dublin as West Britannia equates to being a junior republican denizen of Co. Clare. Please do explain, I can hardly wait for this one.

Sleipnir

Just feckin quit it wil ye?

SuperStudent

Co.Clare, Limerick, Cork, Kilkenny, Waterford, Galway, Mayo, whatever. Clare was the first countie to spring to mind, as with the others is a good safe distance from NI.

Now leave this thread little country boy, No one wants you here.

Stark

45 minutes after she had called saying
"I'm 15, on my own and there are a gang of lads trying to break into my house"
the Gardai show up.

45 MINUTES LATER!

Quite often the gardai think they're better than the person ringing up. "15 year old girl eh? Ah she's probably only lying in order to waste our time".

Had a case where myself and a friend were trying to stop his girlfriend from killing herself in the middle of a street. He was having trouble restraining her from running out into traffic. I rang the guards, and was cross-examined for about five minutes as they suggested I wasn't a genuine caller. Eventually I had to find another person passing on the street, get them to back up my claims to the gardai, then give their own mobile number to the gardai so the gardai could ring them back.

I've also had several humilating experiences being stopped for no reason by gardai on the street, just so they could assert their superiority. "Leave you along? We'll decide when to leave you alone." "But you don't have any reason to stop me". "Well, we'll just have to search you for drugs then won't we?".

I'm not totally against the guards, there are quite a few nice gardai out there. The one time I actually did something wrong (pulled out in front of a garda car without lights on my bike) the guard in question was actually quite civil considering. But there are the savages who give the rest of the force a bad name. It also damages garda relationships with the public. Any time I come near a garda, I'm initially hostile and defensive. You hear of a lot of people getting into trouble simply because "I hate gardai and I just can't bring myself to be nice to them". The crime rate might decrease if there wasn't so much public frustration.

slieveb

Originally posted by Kananga
I have one for people who post to start flame wars and have nothing substantial to say on the subject in question. Afterall, you've said nothing about what was in the programme yourself have you?

heresay? He didn't see the programme, said so but his description of the stories shown on Primetime last night was correct and accurate.
He asked for others to post their stories too. There was no heresay whatsoever in what he said.

I suggest we ignore the tired 'Country Folk Vs City Folk' argument and get on with
the Primetime programme.

If you've nothing to say about the programme itself, or other interesting stories of your own dealings with the Gardai, begone.

You seem to be a reasonable person so I will give you a serious answer.

As you will tell by my number of posts, I'm new on boards.ie, in fact I only joined up to post an answer to a specific question that appeared on another thread. I can say honestly that I a member of two other discussion threads and it is certainly not my style to start thread wars. I stumbled on this thread while browsing and was compelled to reply to SS's opening post. I don't know how you could think that this could ever evolve into a serious discussion on police brutality when it begins with the premise that Guards are "mucksavages". It appears to me that SS heard someone talking about the programme and started the thread in a effort to acquire more "proof" to justify his prejudice. I don't think my posts were more inflammatory than SS's, but I guess that depends on your point of view.

I have had very few dealings with Guards myself and I didn't see the programme, but I wouldn't doubt that there are some bad ones. I don't live in Ireland now, and where I live, I can assure you that the police are alot more brutal than the Guards and are mentioned very unfavourably every year by Amnesty International. I have had dealings with them and I must say I have been seriously unimpressed. So I am not in any way a "defender" of the Guards or any other police force.

I will desist from the Dub v. Culchie stuff now. You're right it's boring, and I won't take the bite again.

BoB_BoT

Well here's my amusing story reguarding the Garda, One halloween night, over a year ago, I and two friends were walking down a street coming from a house party, heading to the offlicense to get more alcohol. Anywho on our return from the offlicense do garda cars stopped right beside us and two guards got out of the car and started to accuse us of breaking a window on the far side of town, that was at least 5 mins run away from where we were standing.

So they started to say that 3 individuals were seen breaking the shop window, one wearing a "foreign" t-shirt (me) and two guys wearing hoodies (the other two guys :P!). What utter bs, they took our names and I remember this quite clearly they started to say "Now Lads just own up, we know you did it, you were spotted by a shop keeper doing it". To which I asked, what's a foreign t-shirt (I was wearing a longish t-shirt with a big 5 on the front of it lol). Got an unusual look off the guard I asked, I don't think he knew what it was either.

Anywho we had being standing there (before the guards arrived) talking to people, I'd just meet my sister and her boyfriend coming back from a pub and we were there for a while, plenty of people passing us, some we knew, and yet we were across the bridge breaking a window at the same time :P. In conclusion, the guards make false accusations and have no sense of logic :P.

If we do the maths, it takes 2 mins to get from the house we were in to get to the offie, the person working in the offie could confirm we were there, we then exited the offie, say racked up about 7 mins now, meet my sister a good 10 mins standing there, so we have a total 19mins gone from the house, while 5 min run from scene of the crime. so if we left the offie after 9 mins from the house, we would have to run to the scene of the crime which would take 5 mins, plus 5 mins return journey = 10mins, not to mention that we were carrying alcohol. So the thought of 3 guys runnign across the town bridge carrying alcohol and not being noticed would be stupid, despite the fact that none of us were sweating.

Second conclusion: I have too much free time on my hands sometimes :P

SuperStudent

Fair played to you. :rolleyes:

It's pretty obvious that foriegn countrys have the same issue. The U.S has recently
had it's race problem with the Police brought to headline news. The U.K has problems too with racial discrimination and abuse of powers, but the issue I think here is that these thicks in the Gardai are walking away from it all like nothing every happened. I can't beleive they are not being punished it's worrying.

slieveb

Originally posted by SuperStudent
Fair played to you. :rolleyes:

It's pretty obvious that foriegn countrys have the same issue. The U.S has recently
had it's race problem with the Police brought to headline news. The U.K has problems too with racial discrimination and abuse of powers, but the issue I think here is that these thicks in the Gardai are walking away from it all like nothing every happened. I can't beleive they are not being punished it's worrying.

I think you're talking to me. Happy to bury the hatchet. And you're right police brutality is worrying.

Just a point about culchie cops: Dublin is the only sizeable city that I know of that depends on ousiders to make up its police force. I don't know how that came to be, but I have always thought it is a big problem. I would prefer my cops to have local knowledge. I believe there has been a recruitment drive in Dublin, but I don't know how successful it's been. What percentage of the Gardaí in Dublin are Dubs. Less than 10% I would guess.

silver_p

I wahched it and wasn't totally surprised by what i seen or heard, i suppose i've always known that there was a bad element within the ranks of the Garda.

Question is...... what now???

Obviously, the cat is out of the bag now, theres no defending this from a garda point of view, theres a BIG problem there and we all know it, now.

One solution and the only one i think is worthwhile trying is an Ombidsman, like the one in NI, with all the powers, not just a few and not with stipulations or notification of their intentions. This way, the truth can be found and justice achieved.

LONG LIVE DECENT PEOPLE !!!

Stark

It's rediculous that there's this "scratch each other's back" attitude in the force. I mean like I said before, the actions of this group of louts can only be making things harder for the decent gardai.

Big al

Fair play to RTE, they do great work like this and states of fear from time to time. It took programs like this to bring the church down to earth, I think this sort of stuff is needed to bring Garda management on line

Dustaz

The problem is actually far more widespread than isolated incidents mentioned in the programme and police failing to turn up in time after calls.

A while ago, I appeared in court as a witness in an assault case. Its a long story and im not going to go into it here, but on the trial date before i was called, an innocent man was sentanced to a week in mountjoy because a sergeant lied (the sentance was dismissed pending a further trial - the one i attended). On the day i was giving evidence , the same sergeant again lied and my testimony contradicted his. The hudge dismissed the case saying "Its possible you were mistaken Garda". Mistaken.

I mentioned to the barrister afterwards that i was shocked at how easily this guy lied about things and the barrister said that it was nothing new and went on EVERY DAY.

It was a real eye-opener. I have come across several great gardai who have been really helpful but there is no doubt that the other sort exist as well and there really needs to be an independant commission to deal with them.

daveirl

This post has been deleted.

Kappar

This is a peice from the Report to the Government of Ireland on the visit to Ireland carried out by the European Committee for the Prevention of Torture and Inhuman
or Degrading Treatment or Punishment (CPT) from 20 to 28 May 2002

"2. Ill-treatment


11. Many of the persons interviewed by the CPT’s delegation about their experience while in police custody stated that they had been correctly treated by the police.

However, a not inconsiderable number of persons claimed that they had been physically ill-treated by police officers (Gardaí). Most of the allegations received concerned the time of arrest, including after the detained person had been brought under control, or during transport to a police station; some complaints related to ill-treatment in cells or detention areas in police stations. In certain cases the ill-treatment alleged was said to have been inflicted by officers trying to obtain information or secure a confession from the detained person.

The allegations involved in the main blows with batons, as well as kicks and punches to various parts of the body. On occasion, the ill-treatment alleged was of a severe nature. In a few cases, the delegation was told that the ill-treatment had been administered in such a way as to avoid leaving visible marks, e.g. baton blows to a telephone directory placed against the detainee’s head or pressure with a baton behind the knee.

12. The number and consistency of the allegations of ill-treatment heard by the delegation lend them credibility. Moreover, in some cases, the delegation’s doctors gathered medical evidence consistent with the allegations received. By way of example, the CPT would like to make reference to the following cases:

One person interviewed in Cork Prison alleged that, the day before, four or five police officers had dragged him down the stairs at the Anglesea Street police facilities and repeatedly struck him with batons. Following his arrival at Cork, the prison doctor had noted “4 fresh marks on back, prior to committal”. Upon medical examination by the delegation’s doctors, the person concerned was found to display two recent red horizontal bruises measuring approximately 3 x 9 cm, respectively in the left and right upper lumbar/kidney area, and a further similar bruise in the left shoulder region; he also displayed a number of abrasions and smaller bruises on the legs.

One person interviewed in Cloverhill Prison alleged that, a few days earlier, at the time of his arrest, the police had twisted his wrist and that, subsequently, at Store Street Garda Station, a police officer had delivered several baton blows in the direction of his head which he had stopped with his left arm. The police reported no physical force/violence or injuries at any time of this person’s custody, and the doctor who examined him on police premises approximately five hours after his arrest only found handcuff marks on the right wrist and injection marks on the lower arms. However, during medical screening on arrival in prison the following morning, he was found to display “superficial haematomas and contusions on the lower left arm”. A medical examination by the delegation’s doctors revealed a purple 6 x 3 cm haematoma along the antero-external face of the lower left arm in the proximity of the elbow and, next to it, another haematoma of similar size and characteristics.

Another person (who at the time of the visit was no longer deprived of his liberty) interviewed by the delegation in Dublin alleged that, one week previously, the police had treated him roughly at the time of his arrest and that, subsequently, at Store Street Garda Station, police officers had assaulted him several times (kicks to the legs and blows to the head) and that, on one occasion, while he was being manually restrained, an officer had struck him six or seven times on the right thigh with a baton. He claimed that, despite his requests, he had not been medically examined during custody. A medical examination by the delegation’s doctors revealed a yellowish 4 x 2 cm haematoma on the right thigh in the proximity of the groin, a yellow and red 10 x 8 cm haematoma with a blue central part on the middle section of the right thigh, a similar 7 x 7 cm haematoma immediately above the right knee, and a further 6 x 3 cm haematoma on the inner part of the central section of the lower right leg; he displayed a number of other smaller bruises on both legs.

It should also be noted that, in certain of the cases examined during the visit, other evidence gathered by the CPT’s delegation (e.g. from custody records, information provided by police officers) tended to support the allegations of ill-treatment received."

Now from the 1993 report the 1993 report reads more or less the same except for something shocking

17. Several of the allegations heard by the CPT's delegation related to Finglas Garda Station in Dublin. In consequence, the delegation decided to carry out a visit to that establishment. In the course of the visit, the delegation discovered a large number of non standard-issue weapons in the areas and, more particularly, in the desk drawers and lockers, used by the detective unit based there.
Those items included various home-made wooden batons (quite unlike ordinary police truncheons) and a variety of real and replica guns (e.g. two sawn-off shotguns, a pipe pistol, a bolt gun, a replica of a Beretta 9mm pistol) several hunting knives, and a short, leather-covered metal cosh.

18. It was advanced by police officers that the above-mentioned items had been confiscated from detainees and would be, or had been, produced in court as evidence. However, both the fact that none of those items bore labels or other means of identification, and the fact that they were found in drawers and lockers in different parts of the police station, undermines the credibility of that contention, as does the fact that certain other items, labelled as evidence, were found in a property store.

I urge every one to read all three repoerts and responses from the CPT here

blondie83

The worst was the fact that none of the guards involved in the May Day protest in Dame Street could identify the guards who were going mad and attacking ppl, apparently they "didn't see then", it was a f*cking joke.

They're not all bad though, was out with my friends in Bobs in Temple Bar, one of my friends was really, really drunk. Started throwing herself at guys (literally!), and causing trouble. Anyway the bouncers threw her out, though we didn't know this, we though she'd gone to the toilet of something. Three of us went to look for her after about 15 minutes, and a call came in on one of my other friend's mobile. It was from two guards on Dame Street, saying they had found her up there falling under the traffic, and asking if we would be able to take care of her, if they brought her down. We were like "yeah of course", and they walked with her down to Bobs, where we met them outside. As soon as we took her off their hands, they started to give out to the bouncers for throwing her out in that state, without telling her friends. They were sound guards. The state she was in, it wouldn't have taken a lot for her to be thrown into a cop car for D+D, but they actually went to the trouble of ringing us up, and walking back to Bobs with her.

HarryD

Originally posted by SuperStudent
Anyone got any storys about themselfs or friends getting the Garda treatment?

Who can forget the professional manner, in which the Guards dealt with the [URL=hhttp://www.raymondquinn.com/links/policeriot.mpeg]mayday protests[/URL].
Only for it was caught on camera, it would all be 'allegations'.
And how they covered each others asses when asked about it.
"Oh I don't remember who I was working with that day"
"I don't recognise my colleagues, in the video"
Nice one lads.

daveirl

This post has been deleted.

vasch_ro

Prime Time h'mmm biased , not at all objective, designed to Tantalise
it maximised footage of the May Day riots to emphasise unrelated points
it had poor reconstructions of alleged Garda assaults

Some of it was interesting , I think the Garda manager guy Nacie Rice was in a difficult position and was not really allowed to ans any questions that he was asked,

A point that was made by the the retired judge that he believed Gardai had perjured themselves in his court on numerous times, then why didn't he do something about it then ??

Some mothers son is an expression that can be applied to a lot of things
every Garda out there is some mothers son or daughter, they are just like you and me they are no different it is foolish to say they are country louts running riot in Dublin , just plain foolish
I think there is far more corruption in Irish Politics than in the Irish Police Force
irsih People love corruption look at the TD who topped the poll down in Tipperary
despite being utterly corrupt
look at Bertie Ahern writing to a County Manager to stall a civil action on behalf of an olld FF party hack

let he is with out sin cast the first stone

Tommy Vercetti

The head of HR (Nacie Rice, once known as Ignatius, musta shortened it to be hip and cool in his new job) used to be based in Coolock Garda station up until a few years ago, I don't know why he's telling so many lies since his own colleagues there have been taking people to the field at the back of Chanel College for years to beat the **** out of them. If anyone knows about Garda brutality, it's him.

Tommy Vercetti

Originally posted by vasch_ro
I think there is far more corruption in Irish Politics than in the Irish Police Force
irsih People love corruption look at the TD who topped the poll down in Tipperary
despite being utterly corrupt
look at Bertie Ahern writing to a County Manager to stall a civil action on behalf of an olld FF party hack

let he is with out sin cast the first stone

Since I haven't beaten anyone with a baton, I'll cast a stone.

Corruption and Brutality are two different things, your point is irrelevant to this discussion, but since you brought it up, I'd rather my local TD was getting a few quid in a brown envelope than some kid was getting the crap beaten out of him by a bunch of scumbags with badges.

Agent Smith

afaik i think the good cop bad cop thing will be around forever.....



it's a lottery in the end of the day

Tommy Vercetti

Originally posted by agent smith
afaik i think the good cop bad cop thing will be around forever.....



it's a lottery in the end of the day

at least there's a winner in the lottery

tinkerbell

This ain't really about garda brutality but nonetheless.

Was out in some pub in town, I have absolutely NO idea where abouts in town now it was - maybe around Dame St / George's St.

Anyway - we look out the window, there's two cops on horses dealing with some dude. Next thing, they handcuff him to one of the saddles. Then a cop on a motorbike arrives, two unmarked cars arrive filled with undercover cops, two squad car arrives, and a squad van!!!! All for ONE guy. Never found out what the hell this one guy did that needed about twelve cops, but my god ....

Moral of the story is - they either don't bother answerin your call for help, or else they send out way too many when they could be helpin more people!

pigeonbutler

I've a few ponts to make.
For the people complaining about Dublin being policed entirely by culchies, to the best of my knowledge it's Garda policy to station people away from their hometown in the early stages (first 10 years or so) of their careers in the force. This is to avoid 20 year-old guards coming up against all the thugs they went to school with. So that should explain the proportion of country lads policing Dublin.
As for the level of institutional brutality I'm short on knowledge of specific cases but I've heard considerable anecdotal evidence, from someone whose father is a solicitor and whose friends father is a senior Garda officer, that the majority of assaults committed here in Athlone are happening inside the walls of the garda station.
Here's an example of the attiitude of many guards: 3 or 4 years ago a 16 or 17 year old from the town who was well known for being as respectable as they come (Head prefect at school, now in Trinity etc.) was stopped by a guard in plain clothes while walking through a residental area during daylight. The Guard asked him where he was going to and coming from. At this stage the youth asked him to show some proof he was a guard. The guards reply was to pull out his handgun and say "Is that enough proof for you?" That guard picked the wrong fella to this to though. His brother was working as a journalist with a National broadsheet so the case got a few column inches and I think he got an apology. I'm fairly sure the Guard was never formally reprimanded though.

Tommy Vercetti

Originally posted by pigeonbutler
I've a few ponts to make.
For the people complaining about Dublin being policed entirely by culchies, to the best of my knowledge it's Garda policy to station people away from their hometown in the early stages (first 10 years or so) of their careers in the force. This is to avoid 20 year-old guards coming up against all the thugs they went to school with. So that should explain the proportion of country lads policing Dublin.

Do you seriously believe there's a bunch of Gardai from Tallaght down in Dingle maintaining law and order:p

bug

I didnt see the programme myself, and have nothing personally against the gardi except for their effiency in some situtations. Like for example the group of future junkies who are going about Camden street, punching ppl randomly each friday night, which they havent done anything about....

I did hear (from a taxi driver today, who was watching the programme) that there was a discussion about an Ombudsman, who would look into cases where gardi have abused their powers, he was saying that in the North the Ombubsman has the right to walk into any station and demand records, notebooks, anything they want about a particular policeman if an incident is reported, down here they want 48 hours notice beforehand...which is absolutley laughable.

I have heard and Im not sure of the truth of this..it kind of disturbs me, that Pearse street garda station has a quota of 100 arrests per "rookie" per year, which may explain some unwarrented arrests...and a steam room according to the slate when one of their writers was arrested.

In my own experience I was standing outside the point a few years ago and my brother had forgotton to collect me..it was freezing cold out, and the guards stopped me and asked me what the story was. The asked me if I wanted to come to the station (store street) with them and ring him from there rather than stand in the cold. So I did, they made me tea and we had a bit of a laugh with them until he arrived, which was nice...

T.G Catter

i had to go to the local garda station last week and found them all sitting around watching home and away, harmless i guess, and it was lunchtime.

the only time i've needed the gardai was when a bunch of skangers from Ballymun decided to jump around our yard, and on the roof-yes the roof.

they failed to turn up when we rang them(santry gards) on the first 'skanger invasion' and on the second 'skanger invasion'.

but when we had a party a month later, they came around 3 times (to break it up). so when we reminded them about our calling them a month previous , the female gard announced 'i'm not in the mood for this', drove off and we partied 'til dawn.

this is the only time i've ever needed them, and it wasn't very positive.

Stephen

Any time i've had to call them (last I recall was because of the muppets in the flat upstairs going ape**** and throwing furniture and stuff out the windows), they've always shown up promptly, but then this is Carlow we're talking about, and the station is about 10 minutes drive time away

Tommy Vercetti

Originally posted by Stephen
Any time i've had to call them (last I recall was because of the muppets in the flat upstairs going ape**** and throwing furniture and stuff out the windows), they've always shown up promptly, but then this is Carlow we're talking about, and the station is about 10 minutes drive time away

There's 4 Garda stations within a 10 minute drive from me, no chance of getting someone here within an hour. Unless you're doing 31 in a 30 zone of course.

vasch_ro

okay lets dispel a few myths here ... i know a fair few lads in the police icluding my brother and my sisters boyfriend as well as three very close friends
generally Dublin people always get sent to dublin as a general rule of thumb
most "culchies" as they have been dubbed here who are stationed in Dublin look to transfer back down to their home area as soon as they are able( often apparently swapping with Dublin lads who are trying to get back to the big smoke )

my friends are educated people (all third level ) highly motivated and do the job from an altruistic sense of wanting to help people in some way and make Ireland a safer place, they certainly do not do it for the money and they act within the law , they are the first to admit there are bad apples and poor mangement,
they nearly all have been injuued at some time or another , one was bitten on the nose another bitten in the ear and head butted in the face , both necessitating months of anxious worry over blood tests etc

where I to tar the Irish people in the same generalistic and ancedotal way the the Police have been here, I could easily say somthing like
All Irish People are Drunken Louts and Alcoholics they are always drinking themsleves silly and falling out of pubs and are all good for nothing but drinking!
All Irsih people must be corrupt look at the amount of tribunals they have in that country !!All politicans are corrupy lazy and self serving

All I ask is that people look in their own places of employment, remove their rose tinted glasses and have a goof look around, can you honestly say that every one there is 100 % dedicated to their job, there nearly always is one person just cruising through, turning in late every day leaving early, lazy and letting the side down , but thats just a small minority.
Are we saying that every single Police man in the country is an ignorant corrupt brute , please lets have some mature discussion and reflection and realise we are talking about a small minority who reflect badly on the whole force


My experience of the Guards was when there was a young man shot in the head
on the street corner down in Drimnagh in Dublin, the Gardai were there I would say with a minute or two , every one was so shocked they just stood around staring at the young lad on the ground with his head in a pool of blood, they immediately(the cops) gavalanised everyone tried (unsuccessfully) to keep him alive organised us to get Blankets to keep him warm and after the ambulance left comforted us onlookers as best they could.


edited for typo's

slieveb

Originally posted by vasch_ro
okay lets dispel a few myths here ... i know a fair few lads in the police icluding my brother and my sisters boyfriend as well as three very close friends
generally Dublin people always get sent to dublin as a general rule of thumb
most "culchies" as they have been dubbed here who are stationed in Dublin look to transfer back down to their home area as soon as they are able( often apparently swapping with Dublin lads who are trying to get back to the big smoke )

my friends are educated people (all third level ) highly motivated and do the job from an altruistic sense of wanting to help people in some way and make Ireland a safer place, they certainly do not do it for the money and they act within the law , they are the first to admit there are bad apples and poor mangement,
they nearly all have been injuued at some time or another , one was bitten on the nose another bitten in the ear and head butted in the face , both necessitating months of anxious worry over blood tests etc

where I to tar the Irish people in the same generalistic and ancedotal way the the Police have been here, I could easily say somthing like
All Irish People are Drunken Louts and Alcoholics they are always drinking themsleves silly and falling out of pubs and are all good for nothing but drinking!
All Irsih people must be corrupt look at the amount of tribunals they have in that country !!All politicans are corrupy lazy and self serving

All I ask is that people look in their own places of employment, remove their rose tinted glasses and have a goof look around, can you honestly say that every one there is 100 % dedicated to their job, there nearly always is one person just cruising through, turning in late every day leaving early, lazy and letting the side down , but thats just a small minority.
Are we saying that every single Police man in the country is an ignorant corrupt brute , please lets have some mature discussion and reflection and realise we are talking about a small minority who reflect badly on the whole force


My experience of the Guards was when there was a young man shot in the head
on the street corner down in Drimnagh in Dublin, the Gardai were there I would say with a minute or two , every one was so shocked they just stood around staring at the young lad on the ground with his head in a pool of blood, they immediately(the cops) gavalanised everyone tried (unsuccessfully) to keep him alive organised us to get Blankets to keep him warm and after the ambulance left comforted us onlookers as best they could.


edited for typo's

Good post.

By the way I think I was the one who first referred to "culchie cops", but I'm a culchie myself. My point was that, while I absolutely condemn the savages who beat up people in stations (be they mucksavages or not), I also think Dubliners should take more responsibility for policing their city. In general New York is policed by New Yorkers, London by Londoners etc. Despite my earlier uncivilized comments, Dubliners are a grand bunch but they have a uniquely low rate of participation in the police. Which is why I get annoyed at the generalized "mucksavage" type of remark.

SuperStudent

Originally posted by slieveb
Good post.

By the way I think I was the one who first referred to "culchie cops", but I'm a culchie myself. My point was that, while I absolutely condemn the savages who beat up people in stations (be they mucksavages or not), I also think Dubliners should take more responsibility for policing their city. In general New York is policed by New Yorkers, London by Londoners etc. Despite my earlier uncivilized comments, Dubliners are a grand bunch but they have a uniquely low rate of participation in the police. Which is why I get annoyed at the generalized "mucksavage" type of remark.

What are ye like.

I also think Dubliners should take more responsibility for policing their city

I don't even want to get into explaining this to you..
Here are a few qoutes from you during this thread

No you were probably watching BBC like everyone else in West Britannia. Don't in anyway condone police brutality but I'd hate to spend my life chasing thievin Dublin junkies....what a kip.

Bitter Culchie

No bones about it, I have several chips on my shoulders. One is for condescending Dublin idiots, another is for people who start discussions based on hearsay.

Ridiculous

I will desist from the Dub v. Culchie stuff now. You're right it's boring, and I won't take the bite again.

Oh, aren't you fuking great

Just a point about culchie cops: Dublin is the only sizeable city that I know of that depends on ousiders to make up its police force

FFS, are you braindead?

All these rants and whinges because I mentioned the word 'mucksavages'...
I'd love to see your reaction if I were to tell you what I really thought of backwater boggers like you.

Amz

Eh... can ye leave the stupid Jackeen Vs Bogman debate it's not really relevant to the thread and it's boring me now!

Slutmonkey57b

I say:

Bash em all and let the judge sort them out.