Garda on Primetime

Beruthiel

Did you see it?

I was appalled to learn last night that 4 million euro of our tax money had been handed out over the last few years in compensation to people wrongly arrested/beaten up by the Garda and not one of them has been sacked! We have no proper set up in this country to try and convict a cop for misuse of his position. So basically, it would seem that a cop can just about get away with anything in this country, it doesn’t make me feel all that safe while passing a cop on the way home on a Saturday night.

gandalf

Yep was appalled by it as well. The 2 fo 3 lads who were arrested for breaking a car wing mirror was really pathetic. The video footage (the Gardai's own footage) showed that they just brushed against it.

Those Gardai should be removed from their jobs. The most galling thing was the Head of Human Resources for the Gardai when they talked about the Committee for Torture (sorry forgotten their full name) and their report and why the Gardai hadn't acted upon it. He said they didn't have specific information, yet Primetime got the details with 2 phone calls, now correct me if I'm wrong but aren't the Gardai a investigative force?

Gandalf.

Beruthiel

Originally posted by gandalf
Those Gardai should be removed from their jobs. The most galling thing was the Head of for the Gardai when they talked about the Committee for Torture (sorry forgotten their full name) and their report and why the Gardai hadn't acted upon it. He said they didn't have specific information, yet Primetime got the details with 2 phone calls, now correct me if I'm wrong but aren't the Gardai a investigative force?

it certainly was the impression I was under, the Human Resources cop came across as a complete thicko who tried his best to wriggle out of the perfectly logical questions being asked of him, he is useless in his position imo, his excuses for not investigating were ones you wouldn’t accept from a 5 year old.
I'm disgusted, I want to complain to someone, but who?

Sleipnir

I was appalled at the english spoken by one of those 3 lads arrested.
"Somebody ringed his mobile"
And he said it twice too!

They need a proper police ombudsmad, like the one for the PSNI.
She was saying that she has powers to arrest police officers and does not need to give any notice when visiting a station.
Here, they have to give 48 hrs notice :rolleyes:

The problem is that they are a 'self-policing police force'
They manage their own disiplinary procedures (very badly too quite obviously)
which just doesn't work.

redflaremist

Originally posted by Beruthiel
I'm disgusted, I want to complain to someone, but who?

There is a street theatre performance/action called "No Justice, No Peace" which is focusing on Garda and State violence, taking place at the gates of Dublin Castle on Thursday January 22nd, to coincide with the EU Justice Ministers meeting. Everyone is welcome to come along and watch or even participate.

If you're looking for more information click here: http://www.indymedia.ie/newswire.php?story_id=62878

Originally posted by Kananga
I was appalled at the english spoken by one of those 3 lads arrested.
"Somebody ringed his mobile"
And he said it twice too!

Oh come on, get off your high grammar horse. You knew exactly what he meant, who cares about the structure of the sentence.

Camille

MICHAEL MC DOWELL SAYS HE IS SETTING UP POLICE OMBUDSMAN / INSPECTORATE, BUT EVEN AT THAT THEY WILL BE REQUIRED TO GIVE 48 HOURS NOTICE WHEN INVESTIGATING OR VISTING A POLICE STATION. TYPICAL. GUESS ITS BETTER THAN AT THE MOMENT, WHERE WE HAVE A COMPLAINTS BOARD WHO HAND OVER COMPLAINTS FOR INVESTIGATION TO.....THE GARDAI.

Sleipnir

Originally posted by redflaremist
Oh come on, get off your high grammar horse. You knew exactly what he meant, who cares about the structure of the sentence.

ur rite. inglish dosnt mater ass long ass u get de mesege a kros. hed probly jused bin nirvus!!!!

Twas only a small bit of humour redflaremist, easy now.

Sleipnir

Originally posted by Camille
MICHAEL MC DOWELL SAYS HE IS SETTING UP POLICE OMBUDSMAN / INSPECTORATE, BUT EVEN AT THAT THEY WILL BE REQUIRED TO GIVE 48 HOURS NOTICE WHEN INVESTIGATING OR VISTING A POLICE STATION. TYPICAL. GUESS ITS BETTER THAN AT THE MOMENT, WHERE WE HAVE A COMPLAINTS BOARD WHO HAND OVER COMPLAINTS FOR INVESTIGATION TO.....THE GARDAI.

I loved the bit where he said he hadn't decided whether or not to call it an ombudsman or an inspectorate. But he will decide soon.
I just had a mental image of him sitting in his office going
"ombudsman........inspectorate.........ombudsman.........inspectorate..........

Just bleedin set it up! Call it "Willy Wonka's Gardai sorting out thing" or whatever the hell you want just do it!!!!

aodh_rua

I was appalled at the Assistant Commissioner. Fair play to Brendan O'Brien - he managed to pull him in hook line and sinker on the Store St incident and again with the case of the sisters in Pearse St. From the Garda point of view - his performance is going to be very hard to explain away. If it had been a press officer then they could have wheeled out the 'real' guard to explain why the spokesperson couldn't answer - but by immediately putting out a senior member of the force they've left themselves nowhere to go.

On the broader issue - as well as the violence problem - they could easily make another programme on the allegations of extortion and blackmail that are part and parcel of the image of rural policing. You know - wealthy businessman gets stopped for drink driving Garda says that the ticket could be made go away for a significant cash sum. Or the local Gardai expecting free dinners in restaurants, etc.

Without saying where - my local station at home was having trouble with items being robbed from the Garda locker room. Allegedly, they installed covert cameras and it turned out to be a guard robbing from his colleagues. The Garda solution was to move him and try and keep things quiet. Apparently - if they'd attempted to bring him through the criminal justice system it would have placed a question mark over every conviction he'd secured.

Makes me sick.

redflaremist

Originally posted by Kananga

"ombudsman........inspectorate.........ombudsman.........inspectorate..........

Just bleedin set it up! Call it "Willy Wonka's Gardai sorting out thing" or whatever the hell you want just do it!!!!

I think Ombudsman sounds more independent. "Garda Inspectorate" sounds way too much like "Garda Inspector" to my ears.

Camille

Scary premonition....Pat Byrne as new Garda Ombudsman

rubadub

the best bit was the garda warning the guy "a big black will take you up the gary glitter, but you'd probably like that"
good to see a good healthy racist and homophobic attitude in our police force, great role model for the kids

the garda "spokesman" being interviewed made a fool of himself, typical garda robot

Originally posted by Camille
MICHAEL MC DOWELL SAYS HE IS SETTING UP POLICE OMBUDSMAN / INSPECTORATE, BUT EVEN AT THAT THEY WILL BE REQUIRED TO GIVE 48 HOURS NOTICE WHEN INVESTIGATING OR VISTING A POLICE STATION. TYPICAL. GUESS ITS BETTER THAN AT THE MOMENT, WHERE WE HAVE A COMPLAINTS BOARD WHO HAND OVER COMPLAINTS FOR INVESTIGATION TO.....THE GARDAI.

I believe the 48 hours notice is being abandoned, I think from what I heard on morning Ireland this morning, but am not sure.
Congratulations to RTÉ by the way for last nights programme. This is the way I'd like to see licence payers money being used, ie highlighting the wrongs committed by some security force members who should know better and other excelent investigative journalism.
It's shocking and appalling that these things can go on and that no Garda is disiplined.
That said, the vast majority of Gardaí are decent and honerable people but you can never account for some peoples real attitudes and predjuces when they join a force.
Just like a recent BBC undercover programme into racism in the manchester police showed.
In that programme, the arresting of black youths for no reason only racism was uncovered as being widespread.

I thought Nuala O' Loans piece about her powers in the North was interesting. That ombudsmans office obviously got the powers as a special case, but really, a slimmed down version of the same thing for here would have less work and be much less costly to run than the one in the North.
Gardaí investigating other Gardaí is simply not on and in normal legal circumstances, it would be judged as a conflict of interest.

Imposter

I'm almost sure I remember reading an article in Time Magazine about 2 months back which talked about some EU department, warning the Guards to clear up the corruption within the force and appoint an ombudsman.

I remember I did a search at the time on the interweb for more info but i didn't find anything.

Will root it out at the weekend unless someone else knows what i'm talking about.

mycroft

I met Nuala O'Loan last year, she's a remarkable woman doing an amazing job in Northern Ireland. Whats impressive is her office is used by both protestant and catholics in numbers consistent with population demographics (i.e 60% Protestant 40%* Catholic, similar numbers to the break down of the population of the north.) Showing how they've managed to reach out to both sides in the community.

Incidently the gardaí who used racist language and suggested a suspect would be raped, is two times all Ireland hurling winner for Kilkenny, ***** *******.

(Name edited for the moment. If you can show me a public source that has named this guy we can put it back. - Gandalf)










* Numbers are a guestimate

uaobrien

Originally posted by Beruthiel
Did you see it?

I was appalled to learn last night that 4 million euro of our tax money had been handed out over the last few years in compensation to people wrongly arrested/beaten up by the Garda and not one of them has been sacked! We have no proper set up in this country to try and convict a cop for misuse of his position. So basically, it would seem that a cop can just about get away with anything in this country, it doesn’t make me feel all that safe while passing a cop on the way home on a Saturday night.

Okay, I know I'm being smart and no offence intended, but where have you been. Its been a well known fact that there is "no-one to watch the watchmen" in Ireland for years.

Case in point. There is a local shop where I live run by an ex-Garda sergeant who was fired for running a brothel on the side of his daily job. The reason he was caught was not some law abiding citizen, but a Templemore newbie found out and reported him directly to the Inspector of the station. When nothing was done the newbie complained to a TD and then the local press.

The guy was fired, not arrested, not incarcerated, just fired. The newbie was sent to the back end of nowhere and that was all anyone ever heard of him. But safe to surmise his career progress ended the day he first complained about the sergeant.

Now here's the kicker. I overheard the wife of the shop-owner talking about holidays they plan on taking and the person she was talking to mentioned that they must be doing well in the shop and she said the money to pay for the holidays would be coming out of his pension. I doubt she meant the standard social welfare pension. So I intimate that the Gardai are still paying a pension to the guy for service in the organization.

Imposter

Found it.
Time article on Garda corruption

gucci

Originally posted by Kananga
I loved the bit where he said he hadn't decided whether or not to call it an ombudsman or an inspectorate. But he will decide soon.
I just had a mental image of him sitting in his office going
"ombudsman........inspectorate.........ombudsman.........inspectorate..........

Just bleedin set it up! Call it "Willy Wonka's Gardai sorting out thing" or whatever the hell you want just do it!!!!

yes a similuar skit conversation was made in my gaff with me and my mate reckoning that there would be A competition on DEN tv for the name or a phone vote after the show!

sionnach

ne1 know if/when this program will be repeated? i would very much like to see it

Sparks

It was repeated last night around 0200 or so (which is how I caught it) and no doubt will be repeated after midnight next week too.

'Bout time this stuff was aired though. I've already had one research student in the lab get harrassed and intimidated by gardai, allegedly for loitering (in front of a cinema, no less), but in reality because he was black and, being american, used to having civil rights. Turns out that not tugging the forelock to a garda when you're black is not a good idea.
Who'd have thunk it?
Lousy bastards, the pair of them. The kind of abuse hurled at the poor kid was stuff the KKK wouldn't say in private, and they had to have been a decade older than he was. So guess what? Instead of staying on and doing more research, he left and went back to the states. Well done there lads :mad:

sovtek

The 3 plus years I've been here I honestly can remember only one or two occasions where I witnessed someone being arrested that wasn't beaten. I assumed it to be official operating procedure.

daveirl

This post has been deleted.

Kappar

Posted this in the other thread in after hours thought it would be useful here too


This is a peice from the Report to the Government of Ireland on the visit to Ireland carried out by the European Committee for the Prevention of Torture and Inhuman
or Degrading Treatment or Punishment (CPT) from 20 to 28 May 2002

"2. Ill-treatment


11. Many of the persons interviewed by the CPT’s delegation about their experience while in police custody stated that they had been correctly treated by the police.

However, a not inconsiderable number of persons claimed that they had been physically ill-treated by police officers (Gardaí). Most of the allegations received concerned the time of arrest, including after the detained person had been brought under control, or during transport to a police station; some complaints related to ill-treatment in cells or detention areas in police stations. In certain cases the ill-treatment alleged was said to have been inflicted by officers trying to obtain information or secure a confession from the detained person.

The allegations involved in the main blows with batons, as well as kicks and punches to various parts of the body. On occasion, the ill-treatment alleged was of a severe nature. In a few cases, the delegation was told that the ill-treatment had been administered in such a way as to avoid leaving visible marks, e.g. baton blows to a telephone directory placed against the detainee’s head or pressure with a baton behind the knee.

12. The number and consistency of the allegations of ill-treatment heard by the delegation lend them credibility. Moreover, in some cases, the delegation’s doctors gathered medical evidence consistent with the allegations received. By way of example, the CPT would like to make reference to the following cases:

One person interviewed in Cork Prison alleged that, the day before, four or five police officers had dragged him down the stairs at the Anglesea Street police facilities and repeatedly struck him with batons. Following his arrival at Cork, the prison doctor had noted “4 fresh marks on back, prior to committal”. Upon medical examination by the delegation’s doctors, the person concerned was found to display two recent red horizontal bruises measuring approximately 3 x 9 cm, respectively in the left and right upper lumbar/kidney area, and a further similar bruise in the left shoulder region; he also displayed a number of abrasions and smaller bruises on the legs.

One person interviewed in Cloverhill Prison alleged that, a few days earlier, at the time of his arrest, the police had twisted his wrist and that, subsequently, at Store Street Garda Station, a police officer had delivered several baton blows in the direction of his head which he had stopped with his left arm. The police reported no physical force/violence or injuries at any time of this person’s custody, and the doctor who examined him on police premises approximately five hours after his arrest only found handcuff marks on the right wrist and injection marks on the lower arms. However, during medical screening on arrival in prison the following morning, he was found to display “superficial haematomas and contusions on the lower left arm”. A medical examination by the delegation’s doctors revealed a purple 6 x 3 cm haematoma along the antero-external face of the lower left arm in the proximity of the elbow and, next to it, another haematoma of similar size and characteristics.

Another person (who at the time of the visit was no longer deprived of his liberty) interviewed by the delegation in Dublin alleged that, one week previously, the police had treated him roughly at the time of his arrest and that, subsequently, at Store Street Garda Station, police officers had assaulted him several times (kicks to the legs and blows to the head) and that, on one occasion, while he was being manually restrained, an officer had struck him six or seven times on the right thigh with a baton. He claimed that, despite his requests, he had not been medically examined during custody. A medical examination by the delegation’s doctors revealed a yellowish 4 x 2 cm haematoma on the right thigh in the proximity of the groin, a yellow and red 10 x 8 cm haematoma with a blue central part on the middle section of the right thigh, a similar 7 x 7 cm haematoma immediately above the right knee, and a further 6 x 3 cm haematoma on the inner part of the central section of the lower right leg; he displayed a number of other smaller bruises on both legs.

It should also be noted that, in certain of the cases examined during the visit, other evidence gathered by the CPT’s delegation (e.g. from custody records, information provided by police officers) tended to support the allegations of ill-treatment received."

Now from the 1993 report the 1993 report reads more or less the same except for something shocking

17. Several of the allegations heard by the CPT's delegation related to Finglas Garda Station in Dublin. In consequence, the delegation decided to carry out a visit to that establishment. In the course of the visit, the delegation discovered a large number of non standard-issue weapons in the areas and, more particularly, in the desk drawers and lockers, used by the detective unit based there.
Those items included various home-made wooden batons (quite unlike ordinary police truncheons) and a variety of real and replica guns (e.g. two sawn-off shotguns, a pipe pistol, a bolt gun, a replica of a Beretta 9mm pistol) several hunting knives, and a short, leather-covered metal cosh.

18. It was advanced by police officers that the above-mentioned items had been confiscated from detainees and would be, or had been, produced in court as evidence. However, both the fact that none of those items bore labels or other means of identification, and the fact that they were found in drawers and lockers in different parts of the police station, undermines the credibility of that contention, as does the fact that certain other items, labelled as evidence, were found in a property store.

I urge every one to read all three repoerts and responses from the CPT here

slieveb

Originally posted by sionnach
ne1 know if/when this program will be repeated? i would very much like to see it

You can download off the RTE site. Pictures a bit blurry but if you really want to see it...

mike65

Originally posted by Sparks

Who'd have thunk it?

The grammar police will be required round here soon!

I saw the prog and was'nt too shocked at the lack of interest of the gardai in thier own mis-behaviour. Its quite obvious that the average garda on the street at night feels like a target for thugs and so is aggressive
to all an sundry. Training out in the sticks at Templemore
is hardly the right environment these days...

Mike.

ps was I the only one to think something silly like -

Adopt Fox voiceover stylee

When Cops Go Bad!

while listening to Brendan O'Briens "fulsome" narrative?

gom

Who will police the police?

Kappar

Who will police the police?

Don't know, em, coastgaurd?

Sparks

Originally posted by mike65
The grammar police will be required round here soon!

[pedant]
From Websters:

Main Entry: thunk
Pronunciation: 'th&[ng]k
dialect past and past participle of THINK

[/pedant]

luckat

It's all horribly reminiscent of the Catholic Church's ham-handed handling of the child abuse horrors.

When will these cartels learn that the policy of closing ranks to protect crooks is not a sensible policy?

From what I've heard, most guards *want* independent investigations of the crooks and brutes - but they daren't say so, because the corruption goes to the top and their careers would end there if they opened their mouths.

sovtek

In America the idea of a citizens review board is often proposed, usually after some idiot cop kills an innocent person. Although it is usually rejected and I'm not aware of any one force that has one, I still think it's a good idea. I see no reason why that wouldn't work here.

mike65

Originally posted by Sparks
[pedant]
From Websters:

Main Entry: 1thunk
Pronunciation: 'th&[ng]k
dialect past and past participle ofTHINK

[/pedant]

Is'nt Websters an American dictionary? 'nuff said.

Mike.

Victor

Originally posted by gandalf
now correct me if I'm wrong but aren't the Gardai a investigative force?

Actually no, gardaí police, detectives (sometimes) investigate.

Originally posted by Camille
Scary premonition....Pat Byrne as new Garda Ombudsman

Ah sure he has the Taxi Regualtor Board chairmanship already.

Originally posted by sovtek
In America the idea of a citizens review board is often proposed, usually after some idiot cop kills an innocent person. Although it is usually rejected and I'm not aware of any one force that has one, I still think it's a good idea. I see no reason why that wouldn't work here.

The difference there is Concress can watch the Justice Department. The Justice Department can watch the FBI. The FBI can watch the state cops. The state cops can watch the county cops. If only they could do soemthing about Congress

vasch_ro

Originally posted by Victor
Actually no, gardaí police, detectives (sometimes) investigate.
Ah sure he has the Taxi Regualtor Board chairmanship already. The difference there is Concress can watch the Justice Department. The Justice Department can watch the FBI. The FBI can watch the state cops. The state cops can watch the county cops. If only they could do soemthing about Congress

sorry victor i will have to correct you here
all Gardai are trained to investigate crime it is one of their primary functions
generally detective Gardai would investigate more serious crime in their area
like murders , robberies etc etc

It was for me interesting to read in the papers today particularly the Sunday Indo piece by Jim Cusack about the the lack of balance of the prime time programme
and that one of the people portrayed on the piece who accused the Gardai of Brutality was in fact himself involved in what the paper calls one the the most horrific racially motivated assaults ever in this country whereby a mixed race couple were attacked and called ****** lovers in the city centre in 2000
Philip Uzell got 9 months in March 2002 for his part in this racist attack ,conviently left out of the programme

Victor

Originally posted by vasch_ro
sorry victor i will have to correct you here

Sorry I was being somewhere between humourous and sarcastic. There are very real lines between uniformed and plain clothes Gardaí.

Originally posted by vasch_ro
It was for me interesting to read in the papers today particularly the Sunday Indo piece by Jim Cusack about the the lack of balance of the prime time programme

Probably a fair point and while I've only met Jim once and he seemed like a nice guy a lot of his writing seems aimed at protecting his sources for scoops.

Video (not gardaí)
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?postid=1315173#post1315173

spanner

yea i would agree its a disgrace the way the gardai act. there has to be proper gardaì complaints proceedure because the gardaì should not have to police itself and i think that most gardaì privately dont want to police themselves. If they know they cant get away with it they wont do it.
but i would not be as quick to jump on the band wagon and start to critizes the gardaì themselves. since the gardaì was established this is how they deal with things, by all accounts in the the 70s the situation was way worse. i have heard stories of gardaì recriuting locals to go sort out troublesome dublin holiday makers. if you are a gard coming into a force you have to look to the older gardaì as a role model on how to behave because whatever crap they teach in templemore goes out the window when the hit the mean streets and they have to copy their colluegues.
we have also got to remeber how rough the streets of our cities are, and the pure scum that are out there but they get roughed up by the gardaì butter wouldnt melt in their mouth and the are claiming for thousands. it puts alot of pressure on them and the fact that like the health service they are also under resourced.
the government need to get the finger out and solve this problem because by the look of the figure that they are handing out in compensation they will probably save money and also i think it would be good for the average gard changing their envoirnment knowing that such behaviour is unacceptable and they wont get away with it

projectmayhem

we need an ombudsman who's indipendant from the gardaí. though knowing this country that wont happen until we have a commission to look into it, a few tribunals, some scandals and then right before an election an ombudsman will be brought in.

Victor

Hmmm, things start coming out of the cracks.

http://home.eircom.net/content/irelandcom/topstories/2333038?view=Eircomnet

Solicitor who sued gardai not told of appeal
From:ireland.com
Monday, 12th January, 2004

The Law Society will be asked to intervene today by the solicitor who successfully sued the Garda Síochána for libel. This follows the revelation that one of the gardaí at the centre of the case successfully appealed a disciplinary finding against him.

Ms Grainne Malone's solicitor will also be seeking an explanation from the Garda Síochána.

Ms Malone told The Irish Times that she learned of the successful appeal from last week's Prime Time programme. One of the cases described in the programme was hers, where she brought a libel action against the State for comments made about her to one of her clients during questioning by two members of the force, Garda William Dempsey and Garda Eddie Brennan, in Tallaght.

These comments, as well as threats to the client that he would be sexually assaulted in Mountjoy, were recorded on the Garda video camera. The case was settled out of court for a substantial sum, and a statement from the Garda upholding her professional integrity.

Ms Malone said that when she became aware of the contents of the video in April 2002 she wrote to the then Garda commissioner, Mr Pat Byrne, asking him to investigate the threats to her client and the comments about her. In July that year Supt Malachy Mulligan took a statement from her, and said he would keep her informed about the investigation. She heard nothing until a few weeks before the High Court libel action, when she was summoned to appear as a witness at the disciplinary hearing in June 2003. But the night before the hearing she was telephoned by an inspector from Tallaght Garda station saying she would not be required. She was not given a reason.

The next information she received was during the High Court action, when she was told the two gardaí had been fined, and that one had lodged an appeal. She was not called as a witness for this appeal, nor was she informed of its outcome.

"The first I heard of the overturning of Garda Dempsey's conviction was the Prime Time programme," Ms Malone said. "At no stage was I called as a witness. In a criminal case either the accused pleads guilty, or there is a full hearing."

If there is a guilty plea in a criminal case, the accused cannot then appeal the conviction. Ms Malone is in the dark about what happened during this disciplinary process, despite having said in her statement to Supt Mulligan: "I understand that I will be informed of the progress and outcome of the investigation."

"If the State has to pay out substantial compensation, and costs, how does that not constitute a breach of discipline?" she asked.

The Irish Times asked the Garda Press Office yesterday if complainants were normally called as witnesses for disciplinary hearings and informed of their outcome, along with other questions, but was told it would be today at the earliest before they could be answered.

http://home.eircom.net/content/irelandcom/topstories/2339477?view=Eircomnet

Gardai facing new disciplinary measures
From:ireland.com
Tuesday, 13th January, 2004

The Minister for Justice will provide for new disciplinary procedures within the Garda Síochána in the new Garda Bill, which will be published in the coming weeks, The Irish Times has learned.

They will address many of the concerns raised in last week's Prime Time programme, the statement from the DPP about the difficulty in taking prosecutions against Gardaí accused of misconduct because of delays in complaints being finalised by the Garda Complaints Board and other concerns arising from various controversies concerning the Garda. The new disciplinary regime will provide for regulations, to be issued by the Minister, with the approval of the Government. Both the Law Society and the Bar Council are likely to make submissions to Mr McDowell on the matter, as both will be discussing the issue later this week.

The Law Society is also expected to seek a meeting with the Garda Commissioner to raise its serious concerns about the case involving a solicitor, Ms Grainne Malone, who successfully sued the State for libel arising out of the actions of two members of the force based in Tallaght.

Both were disciplined and fined, but the verdict against one of them was overturned on appeal. She told The Irish Times at the weekend that she was not informed of the appeal, or asked to give evidence, and learned of the successful appeal only through the Prime Time programme. A Garda spokesman said appeals against decisions of disciplinary tribunals are dealt with on transcripts.

They are heard by a three-man panel, consisting of a senior member of the force, a representative of the representative body to which the accused Garda belongs, and a solicitor or barrister.

The criminal law committee of the Law Society discussed the Grainne Malone case at its meeting last night, and will table a resolution to the Council of the Law Society on Friday, asking the society's president to seek a meeting with the Commissioner to discuss the case. This meeting is also likely to discuss the broader issues raised, and the Minister's pending legislation.

The issues raised on the programme, and in particular the allegation by a retired Circuit Court judge, Judge Anthony Murphy, that members of the Garda Síochána have committed perjury, will also be discussed within the Bar Council later this week.

While many of the matters highlighted by the Prime Time programme were previously in the public domain, the intervention of Judge Murphy, and the revelations surrounding the Grainne Malone case, brought concern about the internal discipline to a new level. The Labour Party and the Irish Council for Civil Liberties have both called for urgent action on the issues raised.

Victor

Once more, Jim cusack defends his inside contacts.

http://home.eircom.net/content/unison/national/2367142?view=Eircomnet

Gardai want cases put back due to Prime Time on force
From:The Irish Independent
Sunday, 18th January, 2004

JIM CUSACK

LAWYERS representing six Dublin gardai facing charges arising from the 2002 May Day anti-globalisation demonstration in Dublin city centre are to seek adjournments of their cases on the grounds that the RTE Prime Time programme on alleged Garda brutality has prejudiced their trials.

The Prime Time programme, last Thursday week, made a number of allegations that gardai were involved in violent behaviour and included video footage made by protestors of gardai wielding batons at the anti-globalisation demonstration in Dame Street, Dublin.

The trials of three gardai on assault charges which were to have begun in the Dublin Circuit Court on Tuesday were adjourned after lawyers argued that their clients' cases had been compromised by the programme.

An application is to be made in the High Court tomorrow to have the cases of all six gardai put back for at least nine months because of the likely prejudicial effect of the programme on the gardai.

Gardai in Dublin said yesterday that the Prime Time programme has already had an impact in placing doubts in people's minds about gardai behaviour.

On Friday, a jury acquitted a man accused of threatening to kill a garda, in the face of what was believed to be overwhelming evidence from witnesses and gardai.

The six gardai involved in the Dublin May Day anti-globalisation demonstrations, who were filmed by demonstrators using their batons in Dame Street, are all mounting defences that they wereacting within their powers to break up an unlawful gathering.

It is understood their lawyers will argue that RTE's broadcasting of video footage taken by the demonstrators may have fatally prejudiced the gardai's chances of a fair trial at least within the coming weeks or months.

Gardai say that the inclusion of the May Day demonstrators' video footage alongside claims by a number of people to have been assaulted by gardai was seriously prejudicial against the young gardai facing trial.

vasch_ro

Victor
every one in the country is entitled to a fair trial, surely even you can agree with that ?

bonkey

Originally posted by vasch_ro
every one in the country is entitled to a fair trial, surely even you can agree with that ?

Everyone is indeed entitled to a fair trial.

If, as a matter of interest, it had been a case of protestors allegedly attacking gardai which was being brought to court, do you believe a 9-month delay would also be appropriate?

If not, then why not?

jc

Sparks

And they're at it again over the last few days:

A statement by Eoin Rice:

Today, Saturday the 17th of January, in Galway at around 8.30 am myself and two friends were assaulted and harassed severely by several men, some of whom wore the uniform of the Gardai Siochana.

Our conversation with some EU delegates in the market in Galway was broken up. A uniformed man pushed me across the street saying "you have no business talking to that man", this man being a Dutch EU delegate.

I was pushed up against a wall by the gardai who then tied to search me saying something about the drugs act and tried to take a dictaphone from my pocket. I said "Are you on drugs or off your head, keep away from me".

Within 10 minutes of this incident I was assualted again by two plain clothes gardai. I took photos of the two men who then stopped me, demanding to know what it was I took a photo of. These men refused to identify themselves and then proceeded to bundle me into an unmarked car apparently just for asking their names. I was handcuffed behind my back and pulled into the car by my hair. I protested loudly and resisted and when in the car pressed the horn with my toe. I was taken to Mill Street Garda sation.

I was taken out of the car, by the hair, by Garda XXXXXX XXXXXX, the unlawfully arresting officer, and pulled into the station. On the way in he said to me "You've had your fun, now we're going have ours, and there's no-one here to see you now".

I was taken into the non-public area of the station. As soon as I passed in through the next door, XXXXXX XXXXXX swung me in a wide arc using my hair as a slingshot to accelerate me backwards into a concrete wall. The wall connected with the back of my head, smashing it, and I fell to the ground. Several plain clothes people then attacked me while I lay on the ground including XXXXXX XXXXXX and others who I had seen on the streets earlier.

One man stood on my neck as I lay on the ground while several others kicked at me and one man struck me across the legs repeatedly with a telescopic baton which had a large ballbearing on the end. At least a dozen uniformed Gardai stood by watching this scene.

After about a minute the beating subsided but the man on my neck stayed there for another minute using a door frame to balance himself. He kept asking me "have you had enough".

He was cutting off my breath and I could feel my head swelling with the pressure.

I was then allowed to stand up. I was prevented from calling a solictor or my family and was searched and thrown into a cell. I fell to the ground demanding a doctor.

About 30 minutes later a doctor arrived, examined me and told the police to take me to the hospital immediatly and to have my head stitched as the wound was still bleeding. I was taken to the hospital and I had my scalp glued at the back, my arm x-rayed and bandaged, and painkillers and anti-inflammatories were prescribed for a splitting head (no pun intended).

I was then taken back down to the station and told I was being released, at this stage I insisted on speaking to my solictor before signing the bail bond and this was the only way in which they allowed me see a solictor. I was bailed until the 2nd February to Galway District Court.

When my camera was returned to me I could see immediatly that it had been tampered with. The film had been stolen by the gardai as had two others which had been in my jacket. I was released into the hands of a local solictor who registered the state of the camera and took my statement.

daveirl

This post has been deleted.

Sparks

Originally posted by daveirl
Where is this statement taken from Sparks?

Seen on P45 and retrieved from indymedia. It's also up on the IAWM's site and other places.
And yes, I know, indymedia. But in this case, the S/N ratio is rather high.

regi

I could well imagine this kind of behavior occuring behind closed doors within Garda stations.

Several months ago, a window in my girlfriend's car was broken by vandals. We got to the car perhaps a minute after the window was smashed, and we saw a Garda with two young boys, aged maybe 13 or 14 against a wall.

We spoke to the Guard, who said that those boys had smashed the window and that he had called in for a car to take them to the station. When we asked what would happen to them, he made it clear that he doubted any charges would be brought, but 'if it made us feel any better, they'd get a few digs down at the station'.

I think I found the Garda's casual promise more shocking than the senseless vandalism of the boys.

Victor

The ironing is delicious.

http://www.breakingnews.ie/2004/01/19/story130327.html

Trial dates set for 'Reclaim the Streets' gardaí
19/01/2004 - 5:25:37 pm

The Dublin Circuit Criminal Court trial for three gardaí who face charges of assaulting protesters at the 2002 'Reclaim the Streets' protest has been set.

Judge Michael White has set the trial of gardaí Thomas Victory, Paul Daly and Ronan Judge for October 5 .

Trial dates on February 23 for Gda Fergus Hogan, March 1 for Gda Donal Corcoran and March 22 for Gda Paul Tallon were set down previously. All the accused are remanded on continuing bail.

vasch_ro

I believe it is every bodies fundamental right to a Fair trail be they protester
or Garda whatever, thus I also agreed with Charles Haughey action on the grounds he would never receive a fair trial.
there had been so much media comment re prime time how could any of the accused Gardai get a Fair Trial ???

I'm sure if any of us were to indulge ourselves in momentary role reversal , wouldn't we also wish to receive a fair trial ?? I know I would.

It is wrong to call it a 9 month delay , it is an adjournment for the sake of justice.

Thats my two european cents worth

sceptre

Originally posted by vasch_ro
there had been so much media comment re prime time how could any of the accused Gardai get a Fair Trial ???

You honestly think they couldn't find 12 people who could walk into the court with no prior ideas (or few prior ideas with nothing concrete in their mind) about the certainty of their guilt or innocence? I'm relatively certain that we could find 12 people who post to the Politics forum who could fall into such a category.

Victor

Originally posted by sceptre
You honestly think they couldn't find 12 people who could walk into the court with no prior ideas (or few prior ideas with nothing concrete in their mind) about the certainty of their guilt or innocence? I'm relatively certain that we could find 12 people who post to the Politics forum who could fall into such a category.

Yeah, but the defence solictor would have us all challenged and removed from the case

vasch_ro

your dead right the defence would correctly challenge the situation

redflaremist

Originally posted by redflaremist
There is a street theatre performance/action called "No Justice, No Peace" which is focusing on Garda and State violence, taking place at the gates of Dublin Castle on Thursday January 22nd, to coincide with the EU Justice Ministers meeting. Everyone is welcome to come along and watch or even participate.
If you're looking for more information click here: http://www.indymedia.ie/newswire.php?story_id=62878

This is happening TODAY. We are meeting up at the Central Bank on Dame Street at 5pm. Come down if you want to watch or join in. Should be interesting... there are already ten million cops there right now...

Zappa

Well things are not as bad as they are in greece, wheree I come from.Police have a long story of frameing activists(e.g. in thessaloniki during the anti eu rallies), atacking protesters,murdering foreigners and getting away with it, and of course dealing with neo nazis........