racism alive and well

cujimmy

Racism seems to be alive and well and residing on the humour board what you call a...................

I even reported this shamefull thread two days ago

magick

Mod edit

Did your comment benifit humanity?
i don't think so

MiCr0

simu

There's no such thing as race really but travellers are a distinct group of people in Irish society and yes, there is still a really high level of prejudice against them.

bizmark

Hardly suppriseing really :rolleyes:

simu

That thread is getting more and more nasty - I'm surprised it hasn't been locked yet.

BuffyBot

If you've reported it and not had a response you should PM DeVore or ecksor etc or raise it on Admin/Support

l3rian

distinct group of people in Irish society

they are the distinct group of people in irish society who dont work, dont pay tax, leach the welfare system, wreck the place, beg, steal and all the other pathetic shìt they do

Clintons Cat

they are the distinct group of people in irish society who dont work, dont pay tax, leach the welfare system, wreck the place, beg, steal and all the other pathetic shìt they do

as opposed to the other half that sit around moaning about a lack of potatos and building bombs and worshiping the pope.

Catsmokinpot

i want some tekitos

muffen

That thread is now closed, with some bans being handed out.
Read the last post in the thread...

(while previewing my post I just realized how funny my sig was when posting in this forum)

Catsmokinpot

why was magick's post edited ?????

he was correct was he not?

the joke was terribly funny. if it was a joke about killing or hurting travellers or calling them dirty fúckers that would be out of order. what came after that joke in the thread was out of order

magick

QUOTE]Mod edit
Did your comment benifit humanity? i don't think so
MiCr0[/QUOTE]


Excuse me but what i said was perfectly true and not racist. I said quote "Knackers arent a race" which is a fact perhaps defined as a culture or group of people of course. Theirs black/white/asian.. etc etc.... but in terms or race knackers arent defined as one. You have no right to edit my post or make smart arse comments when it was edited, what i said was FACT and not Inflammatory. :mad:

Meadows

Its true "Knackers aren't a race". The joke was brilliant. Its sad to see cujimmy was angry his way of life was the butt of a joke but then again being a traveler was never a very respected way of life.

cujimmy

Originally posted by Meadows
Its true "Knackers aren't a race". The joke was brilliant. Its sad to see cujimmy was angry his way of life was the butt of a joke but then again being a traveler was never a very respected way of life.

For the record I am not a member of the travelling community, I did however have the privlage of knowing and working with some members of that community some years ago. I am angry at seeing folk believing its funny to make fun of another culture and or race and I am upset that so many people continue to have such negative images of Travellers.

Pepe LeFrits

Somebody think of the children!

Funny joke. I'll be sure to use it sometime.

dr_manhattan

(sigh) just dropped in to chck how boards.ie is getting along...

Ya know, it's depressing to see how people will hide behind such pseudo issues as whether or not an ethnicity/cultural division/bunch of people are a "race" or not. Fact is, race has no legitimacy as a classification, it's a supremacist term for a supremacist idea: and to attempt to use it as cover for bigotry is so much more pathetic than any PC-ness, etc.

The sad fact of most bigots is, when confronted by actual physical situations where they meet those that they rant about, they are chicken**** and say nothing. instead (and this is a general irish trait in all areas) they wait until they're among their same-thinking friends before they let loose with their ideas. or even braver, they use an internet message board.

And it's at those gatherings that the seeds are layed that deny the objects of their bigotry the equality that so many people bang on about: its at these monotone whiteboy parties that the seeds of true inequality are sown, and people start to feel comfortable about what will eventually become decisions such as who their children can marry, who they want to live next to, etc etc.

And naturally, there'll be all manner of pseudo examples to justify this bigotry, a bunch of trumped up experiences on which to base bigotry.

But the underlying FACT is that these generalisations only come into play in our dealings with "other" people. It comes down to the old newsreader faux pas of 'people' versus 'colored people' - the FACT is that we all know that we should try to deal with everyone in the same way, and we all know that our cultural conditioning makes this difficult.

So we are left with a choice: either try to deal with people as equals, or make up our minds based on lazy, second hand opinions, and stick with this mindset until we finish our pasty lives.

And any discussion of whether or not something is a 'race' or not, or whether it would be as offensive "the other way round" is absolutely irrelevant: it's just a smokescreen that allows lazy people to pretend that they're not being absolute children when they are.

(another favourite tool of bigots: to try and posit an equal world that underlies their unequal and hurtful remarks, and play victim to an imagined "PC patrol" - yeah, leave us white people alone, we've suffered dreadfully at the hands of this global scenario where we feel sorry for all the genocide which has benefitted us so much. Damn those merciless minorities, this is our world! Leave us be!)

Anyways, rant over, see yz later.

Catsmokinpot

i previewed this rant and i never knew how long it was till i saw it sorry in advance

first of all who were you directing this argument to?

if it was me then i answer thusly

im not a biggot or a supremacist so who are you making your point to and what point are you making??

you do seem to babble about race having no legitimacy as a classification. fortunately mother nature has given us diversity through granting us different species of life on this earth we, as caucasians are a subpecies of the human species i think subspecies would be a worse term than race the only reason why race is a terrible classification is because all the stupid people from all over have decided to base their opinions on what colour you are rather than your caracter, personality and how you act towards others (granted that the whites have done more nasty sh1t throughout the years) but still every race has their racists

i saw some "whitey jokes" and tbh they were quite funny you can relate any black joke to a white joke because theyre all the same. have you seen chris rock do standup? if you think the way your typing you would say he was racist cause some of the stuff he comes out with is pretty borderline racist but you know what, i think all of his stuff if funny as hell!

actual physical situations where they meet those that they rant about

what are you a scientist? you obviously dont make physical contact with many people..... idiot! yes i have met people of all sorts of colours and cultures. i used to do carboot sales with a load of nackers by the way they were very nice people just trying to make a living who prefer the travelling way of life. my school in england was full of different cultures. but i never use that as an excuse to say im not racist i know im not and weather you believe that or not i dont particularly give a fúck

using a message board? being brave??? the point i was making was the joke was funny. oh thats so brave! drive down to waterford and ill say it to your face, im not trying to start on you i was only pointing out that i am not afraid to say what i want infront of whoever i want to

naturally these monotone whiteboy parties do exist becaues we are ofcourse bound by geographical location and people fear what they dont understand and come in contact with often. look at the romanian situation even though the irish are the biggest bunch of immagrints in the world they still dont want people in their country for pretty much the same reason as they left. it is because they dont understand their culture. i have even cracked a few black jokes in my time but the fact is neither me or the friends i hang around believe a word of what we're saying because we have the common sence to know the difference between right and wrong

i hope theres a load of black dudes or chinese guys or native americans somewhere sittin in a room goin crakka this and crakka that who think the same as we do.

people who deny race ever existed - like you are trying to do, dont get all the way to not being a racist. because denying it exists is denying all the bad sh1t that ever happened to good people just because they were from another country or cause theyre skin is a different colour or because they wouldnt stand up for a snotty white trash who wanted to sit down in a bus. we have made it exist as much as nature has

instead you have to realise race does exist but, be able look foreward past it and still remember all the bad **** that happened as a reminder and you are a better person for it. if we let things get forgotten the same thing will happen all over again.

i do not assume the existance of a world where this **** doesnt happen and where behind closed doors people dont say things that are hurtfull and mean it

we are in a world where this **** happens these things are said about other people and now this thread has turned in to a race descussion instead of a thread full of laughter because people like you cant look past race and culture every time it comes up, and think that everyone who cracks a joke like that thinks the same as the stereotype that you are putting foreward

one more question was this joke in any way making fun of the traveller way of life making fun of a traveller trying to hurt a traveller?

if you had said

What do you call a nomad with a watch?

would you call that offensive? most of us in ireland have never met any nomad tribe so why would we bother saying it? i bet if an african dude thought up this joke he would have said nomad even though he has no reason to make fun of the nomad people he was just relating two words together that have a funny punchline. if travellers were respected i think the irish sence of humor would still have produced that joke

you know why he would have made up that joke

because it was funny and it was a joke

look up the word joke and the word funny in the dictionary

stop with the stupid "oh i have advanced beyond the cranial capacity of most of my fello men so ill use alot of big words to diminish them and make me feel better about myself"

nobody has to use big words. i know alot of big words but i dont use them because it separates me from other people. the people who made the dictionary made up these big words to separate them from people who use the simplest and easies form

And naturally, there'll be all manner of pseudo examples to justify this bigotry, a bunch of trumped up experiences on which to base bigotry.

anyone who gets comments like that from anyone is bound to have a retort to your argument and saying that its going to happen is not intelligent or witty, its cause and effect.

you look at people who are wrong and say "oh those stupid idiots" and try to belittle them thats as bad as being racist and does not help the situation

i say oh those poor devils i must teach them the way of the dragon

simu

nobody has to use big words. i know alot of big words but i dont use them because it separates me from other people. the people who made the dictionary made up these big words to separate them from people who use the simplest and easies form

Oh no!!! The international dictionary conspiracy has come to light. Horror - and just as lexicographers were about to take over the world!

Catsmokinpot

well TBH i was talking a load of boll0cks. i usually do that when im writing youll have little patches of utter sh1t in between the wierd sence that i make

hey! what can i say its better than the cocacola conspiracy

Faust

[rant]I love coca cola! But anyway i hate political corectness! Anyway the p.c word for knackers is ittinerants btw. Anyway most ittinerants i have met and or dealed with have been thieves.. seriously! And actually my g/f's shop was robbed by some recently. The reason there is such a negative stereotype of them is because some do negative things. I'm not generalising and saying they are all like that because that owuld be stupid. But to be honest if you see a place where ittinerants have been before with their caravans is ****ing disgraceful. The **** they leave lying around after they leave. And repeatedly around my area huge boulders have been transported in to keep them from stopping there! And who has to pay for it the fookin county council! grrrgrrrr i love coca cola [/rant]

magick

Im more of a Pepsi man myself

dr_manhattan

"i say oh those poor devils i must teach them the way of the dragon"

'catsmokin pot' eh? I'm a waterford man myself. Left it so I wouldn't have to spend all my time dealing with inferiority complexes like yours.

To be honest I've no reply to make to your self righteous drivel. Let's just say I can recognise the fact that all you've done is spotted that I use "big words" and, as per usual in this country, assumed I have a superiority complex because of it: I could similarly point out the fact that you can't spell, but there you go: this despite the fact that you've edited your post ;-)

the only issue I have to address here is the fact that you've completely misunderstood what I was saying about race, and i'm not interested in putting you straight on it because you're just being ignorant; Besides that you're just a typical internet flamer, and there's nothing to say in raply to your poorly spelled rubbish, so go bark up another tree. I may be wrong, but i think that post was at about 2.40am?

So you're just back from not getting laid in Club L.A. and decided to have a rant online, hmmm?

And thanks for all the abuse btw, especially the 'come down here to waterford and say that' - what age are you? "the people that made the dictionary made it to create difference between people" - you're an idiot, catsmokinpot. And you're also the one who's creating difference based on use of words - presumably if I were using shorter words and misspelling them like a proper man, you'd "teach me the way of the dragon"?

Believe it or not, that previous post wasn't directed at you: but I know from the amount of time you've already wasted that there's nothing can convince you that you're not defending yourself and all the other non-big-word-using people of waterford against a percieved threat from some uppity dubliner. Good luck. You go, girl.

Now as regards the persistent posting about how travellers "take land that isn't theirs and leave it in a terrible state":

To be honest, the damage done by travellers can be righted in no time at all - the worst damage I've seen is a bit of land subsidence: meanwhile, we build the ugliest housing estates ever seen, housing estates that make milton keynes look like paradise, we corruptly zone land, our cities SMELL and look like ****, our farmers release enough hormones and fertiliser into the rivers to... well, choke them with algae, etc etc. All damage which cannot be reversed this year or the next.

Our 80 year old free state is a mess, yet we're so busy pointing out that travellers are leaving rubbish everywhere that we can't even pick up our own ****?

When we have a pretty enough society that we can afford to judge, then we can start talking about traveller pollution, etc. But in the meantime, I don't see tallaght being cleaned up anytime soon, and that's a filthy mess to leave in what was once open fields....

My original post was about how everyone is quick to make jokes and then defend their right to make them: fact is, if someone takes offence in a bar you're forced to explain yourself or leave by the way that people function - you can't stay at a party all night calling everyone an asshole that doesn't agree with you, and hiding behind a wall of "this isn't racism, I have a right to say this"

But on the internet, of course, home of the jerk, you have to defend everything to the hilt. Despite the fact that, as I was saying, not ONE of you people would tell a traveller joke to a traveller, yz still feel able to defend legitimacy of said joke by talking about "how many travellers I've worked with" and how justified your comments are. It's pathetic.

Faust

there's nothing to say in raply to your poorly spelled rubbish

Nice.. LOL

To be honest, the damage done by travellers can be righted in no time at all - the worst damage I've seen is a bit of land subsidence: meanwhile, we build the ugliest housing estates ever seen, housing estates that make milton keynes look like paradise, we corruptly zone land, our cities SMELL and look like ****, our farmers release enough hormones and fertiliser into the rivers to... well, choke them with algae, etc etc. All damage which cannot be reversed this year or the next.

What are you talking about!? Travellers leave huge amounts of filth on the sides of public roads! That's a fact! And why are you talking about ugly housing estates and all that stuff? It's totally irrelevant in this conversation!

dr_manhattan

~ Anything interesting to say besides, faust?

Hope the county council in your area don't have to pay for any more boulders, hell that kind of stuff could ruin your life: but hey, I guess spelling beats that. Hope you're not one of those dictionary authors trying to split up me and my fellow man...?

Hope I didn't us any big words btw, folks: hope it's not challenging here. I'd hate to make anyone change their reading habits or even think for three ****ing seconds

And as a PS to catsmokin' pot: why is it that, despite the fact that this thread IS about racism (and not about humour - the original thread was about humour, and was in the humour section, whereas this is in the humanities section, think about it), and refers to the original joke in a disapproving manner, you only post a huge big rant back to me? Is that a chip I see on your shoulder?

Faust

Originally posted by dr_manhattan
~ Anything interesting to say besides, faust?

Hope the county council in your area don't have to pay for any more boulders, hell that kind of stuff could ruin your life: but hey, I guess spelling beats that. Hope you're not one of those dictionary authors trying to split up me and my fellow man...?

Hope I didn't us any big words btw, folks: hope it's not challenging here. I'd hate to make anyone change their reading habits or even think for three ****ing seconds

And as a PS to catsmokin' pot: why is it that, despite the fact that this thread IS about racism (and not about humour - the original thread was about humour, and was in the humour section, whereas this is in the humanities section, think about it), and refers to the original joke in a disapproving manner, you only post a huge big rant back to me? Is that a chip I see on your shoulder?

hehe Troll..

dr_manhattan

waitaminute, faust: you post nothing back to me, and then *change* your original post to add the comment:

" What are you talking about!? Travellers leave huge amounts of filth on the sides of public roads! That's a fact! And why are you talking about ugly housing estates and all that stuff? It's totally irrelevant in this conversation!"

and then call *me* a troll? I see... well, in reply to your exquisitely punctuated rubbish...

Before we allow YOU to decide what's relevant or not, I thought you were talking about how travellers supposedly wreck the place, no? And at no point did I say they didn't. So calm down with your "that's a fact!", you child.

I was talking about how "settled" people wreck the "place" an awful lot worse: do you really think that housing estates and dual carraigeways and poxy hard shoulders deserve that much respect? Look at ballymun, ****'s sake look at ballybeg in waterford. Look at coolock and darndale in the 80s - hell, look at respectable areas, look at terenure in dublin - these places are legoland nightmares, and they stretch on for miles. That's our mess.

And just because we're all prepared to pay 500,000 a pop for this ****, doesn't mean everyone else has to pretend they have value.

What I was suggesting was, before we criticise another society, we should look at how ugly our own is.

Try reading what i post, faust, instead of calling me names and making smart remarks. Methinks you're the troll here.

Faust

Originally posted by dr_manhattan
waitaminute, faust: you post nothing back to me, and then *change* your original post to add the comment:

" What are you talking about!? Travellers leave huge amounts of filth on the sides of public roads! That's a fact! And why are you talking about ugly housing estates and all that stuff? It's totally irrelevant in this conversation!"

and then call *me* a troll? I see... well, in reply to your exquisitely punctuated rubbish...

Before we allow YOU to decide what's relevant or not, I thought you were talking about how travellers supposedly wreck the place, no? And at no point did I say they didn't. So calm down with your "that's a fact!", you child.

I was talking about how "settled" people wreck the "place" an awful lot worse: do you really think that housing estates and dual carraigeways and poxy hard shoulders deserve that much respect? Look at ballymun, ****'s sake look at ballybeg in waterford. Look at coolock and darndale in the 80s - hell, look at respectable areas, look at terenure in dublin - these places are legoland nightmares, and they stretch on for miles. That's our mess.

And just because we're all prepared to pay 500,000 a pop for this ****, doesn't mean everyone else has to pretend they have value.

What I was suggesting was, before we criticise another society, we should look at how ugly our own is.

Try reading what i post, faust, instead of calling me names and making smart remarks. Methinks you're the troll here.

*yawn* Why are you so bothered about puncuation? No one really thinks about that when they type these posts because it does'nt matter, they just type whatever they want. Is it offensive to you? And you do have a superiority complex, the signs are therejshflksrughifujg. Oh NO!!!! I SPellt a word wrong i should DIEjKgkjLGHVjhl!
GRRGRGRRRRrrrRRRrr. BTW you are obviously trying to change the subject from the travellers to ourselves as you know that the ittinerants (proper word) DO leave filth on the side of roads! lalala i mispell(look i misspellt misspell i am stoopid DUH!) stoff grrr!!

dr_manhattan

...as I said, anything interesting to say, faust?

Faust

Originally posted by dr_manhattan
...as I said, anything interesting to say, faust?

Don't be mean to me i'm just a little college girl!

TUTS

Dont know how i missed this one......:rolleyes: Look it was only a joke. There was no hidden agenda.... in relation to the travelling community. The only way the joke would have worked is if you put "knacker" in.

What do you call a member of the travelling community with a watch?

A time Traveller ....... it loses the edge......emmm


What do you call a member of the travelling community with a watch?

A thief.

This works fine.

What do you call a member of the travelling community who gets sick on the way to kerry?

A Bad traveller.

And also this.

I have had many a friend and enemy's in the travelling community and they are just like everyone else ...... people ...... i dont look at people in the class of a race. Just equal. Not black/white/asian/traveller.

Juussssttt aaaaa jjjookkkeeee!!

dr_manhattan

"Don't be mean to me i'm just a little college girl!"

Okay then, my apologies.

Anyone else got anything to say?

;-)

Faust

Originally posted by dr_manhattan
"Don't be mean to me i'm just a little college girl!"

Okay then, my apologies.

Anyone else got anything to say?

;-)

I forgive you tee hee hee

dr_manhattan

in reply to TUTS above -

this was the intention of my original post:

fact is, PC or non PC, racist or not, a lot of people will accuse jokers of being racist and yet be quite racist in their opinions themselves. Likewise, many who insist stuff is 'just a joke' can be concealing agendas.

whether or not a joke works well or not is besides the point:

Q: what do you say to a woman with no arms and no legs?

A: Nice tits

Obviously quite a blue joke. But you can't tell from that joke whether or not I am a sexist: you can choose to read it in, and you can choose not to, but it's not a final proof of any description. And what I was saying is that only too often people hide behind BOTH "it's just a laugh" and "it's offensive" but refuse to think.

If something was just a joke, then it should be explainable as such. And if something is genuinely offensive, ditto. But my problem is with those people who keep posting about how such jokes are "true" because travellers do x, y, or z.

Fact is, jokes are not supposed to be justifiable, just funny. So why not leave it there?

(and PPS as a comeback to the mention of chris rock and so-called 'reverse racism', that's a whole other thread...)

Faust

Originally posted by dr_manhattan
in reply to TUTS above -

this was the intention of my original post:

fact is, PC or non PC, racist or not, a lot of people will accuse jokers of being racist and yet be quite racist in their opinions themselves. Likewise, many who insist stuff is 'just a joke' can be concealing agendas.

whether or not a joke works well or not is besides the point:

Q: what do you say to a woman with no arms and no legs?

A: Nice tits

Obviously quite a blue joke. But you can't tell from that joke whether or not I am a sexist: you can choose to read it in, and you can choose not to, but it's not a final proof of any description. And what I was saying is that only too often people hide behind BOTH "it's just a laugh" and "it's offensive" but refuse to think.

If something was just a joke, then it should be explainable as such. And if something is genuinely offensive, ditto. But my problem is with those people who keep posting about how such jokes are "true" because travellers do x, y, or z.

Fact is, jokes are not supposed to be justifiable, just funny. So why not leave it there?

(and PPS as a comeback to the mention of chris rock and so-called 'reverse racism', that's a whole other thread...)

Do you know what was a funny joke, that time i pretended to be a woman and you were all nice to me.. rofl!

dr_manhattan

yes, faust, you're very clever.

anything to actually say?

Faust

Originally posted by dr_manhattan
yes, faust, you're very clever.

anything to actually say?

Yes actually, i have a question. Do ittinerants dump filth on the side of the road when they stay there?

TUTS

More than likely, but it is changing. On the trip to work i see a few. They ones which are kept well... tidy ...no rubbish lying around are usually left to their own devices....while the ones with bags of rubbish bits of cars the odd goat here and there are moved on fairly lively.

dr_manhattan

"Do ittinerants dump filth on the side of the road when they stay there?"

Okay, maybe if you read what I post, it'd be easier.

But once again:

Yes, some itinerants do this. I never said that they did not.

What I did day was, so do settled people. Our cities are disgusting, our standards of pollution and waste management are shameful, our rivers smell, and I don't think we are in any position to comment on how travellers leave "the side of the road" when we have utterly wrecked the place, and the sides of our roads aren't much to boast about in the first place.

let's try remembering that there were travellers here before there were sides of the road, and try looking at our own tidiness before we try and justify nasty jokes on the basis that the people who they are directed at are "dirty"

But doubtless you'll have an hilarious comeback for this, faust, you seem to be on a roll this morning.

Faust

Originally posted by dr_manhattan
"Do ittinerants dump filth on the side of the road when they stay there?"

Okay, maybe if you read what I post, it'd be easier.

But once again:

Yes, some itinerants do this. I never said that they did not.

.

See that quote there that's what i was looking for not any of the other irrelevant drivel you posted. Anyway, This is why people have many miconceptions of ittinerants because alot of them leave filth on the side of the road. AND alot of them stay in public places in which they have not right to stay in and because they stay there large boulders have to be placed on the sides of roads to stop them from camping there. This is why people have prejudices against ittinerants! AND you will find that alot of itinerant rip people off. So that is why people have misconceptions of itinerants. (See how i tackle the issue instead of bitching about how housing estates look ugly)

dr_manhattan

"This is why people have prejudices against ittinerants"

No, people have prejudices against itinerants because people are too lazy to keep an open mind. No matter what way you write it, prejudice cannot be justified, and that's what you're trying to do.

Some australian aborigines are alcoholics and have no jobs, Same can be said about native americans, innuit, native mexican indians, south african township residents, and up until recently, irish people. This does not justify the many prejudiced people who feel that just because these facts exist, they have a right to judge.

People have misconceptions PURELY because they do not check their facts. They are wrong because they are wrong, and no amount of bad behaviour explains this. If what you are saying is true, then everyone who's ever treated irish people like morons is justified in their misconceptions, too.

And btw, here's why "bitching about housing estates" is relevant:

Travellers are a society in their own right. Therefore our own version of "tidy" should mean exactly nothing to them. Why should they obey our rules of propriety? Just because when you were born travellers were treated like an annoying pest on the face of settled society, doesan't make it so.

As I say, they were here first: our society is just an extension of the original colonisation of the country, so why is it that we have to be so respected? They could just as easily say that we polute and destroy everywhere we come in touch with, too, only it'll take more than boulders to save our countryside from our towns and cities.

Face it, calling travellers 'dirty' is just as valid as calling settled people 'dirty'

oscarBravo

Originally posted by dr_manhattan
Some australian aborigines are alcoholics and have no jobs, Same can be said about native americans, innuit, native mexican indians, south african township residents, and up until recently, irish people.

It's no longer true that some Irish people are alcoholics and have no jobs?

Faust

Originally posted by dr_manhattan
"This is why people have prejudices against ittinerants"

No, people have prejudices against itinerants because people are too lazy to keep an open mind. No matter what way you write it, prejudice cannot be justified, and that's what you're trying to do.

Some australian aborigines are alcoholics and have no jobs, Same can be said about native americans, innuit, native mexican indians, south african township residents, and up until recently, irish people. This does not justify the many prejudiced people who feel that just because these facts exist, they have a right to judge.

People have misconceptions PURELY because they do not check their facts. They are wrong because they are wrong, and no amount of bad behaviour explains this. If what you are saying is true, then everyone who's ever treated irish people like morons is justified in their misconceptions, too.

And btw, here's why "bitching about housing estates" is relevant:

Travellers are a society in their own right. Therefore our own version of "tidy" should mean exactly nothing to them. Why should they obey our rules of propriety? Just because when you were born travellers were treated like an annoying pest on the face of settled society, doesan't make it so.

As I say, they were here first: our society is just an extension of the original colonisation of the country, so why is it that we have to be so respected? They could just as easily say that we polute and destroy everywhere we come in touch with, too, only it'll take more than boulders to save our countryside from our towns and cities.

Face it, calling travellers 'dirty' is just as valid as calling settled people 'dirty'

I did'nt try to justify prejudices, i just said that's why people have prejudices.. And all the other stuff you are saying is totally irrelevent!

dr_manhattan

nope, not since the eradication of alcoholism and unemploymenmt in the free state ;-)

My bad, what I meant was that up until recently people have said that about irish people: and although they still do, it's not with the frequency they used to, if ya get me.

apologies ;-)

dr_manhattan

"I did'nt try to justify prejudices, i just said that's why people have prejudices.."

Faust, I give up, your ignorance of what's actually being discussed here is astounding.

If you say that some black people smell, and that's why people are prejudiced against them, then you are justifying their prejudice by giving a reason for it.

If you say some women are stupid, that's why people are prejudiced against them, same deal. Same deal for any prejudice - if you give a reason for a prejudice, then you are saying the prejudice is founded and has a reason, and therefore is a legitimate prejudice.

Or else you're just saying "a lot of travellers leave **** everywhere" for the hell of it, in which case, why waste anyone's time?

You may not *think* of it this way, but you appear to have the reasoning power of your average bunch of grapes, and no idea that, to travellers, we can appear just as messy and dirty as they sometimes do to us. And that's why the parts of my post which you chooses to ignore are in fact quite relevant.

Anyways, back to the point:

People have prejudices because people are too stupid to take people on a person by person basis, and have to constantly mouth off about "all them lads in XYZ are all ****"

that's why they're called *prejudices*

When there's a reason behind them, they are called *opinions* and, like assholes, everyone's got one.

Hence:

"the travellers on my road are a pack of filthy bastards" -

= OPINION

"most travellers dirty up the side of the road"

= PREJUDICE

mkay?

Faust

Originally posted by dr_manhattan
nope, not since the eradication of alcoholism and unemploymenmt in the free state ;-)

My bad, what I meant was that up until recently people have said that about irish people: and although they still do, it's not with the frequency they used to, if ya get me.

apologies ;-)

When did anyone steretype the irish as unemployed!?
And i think we are seen as drnks because of our high alcohol consumption rate,

http://www.healthpromotion.ie/uploaded_docs/Irish_Drinking_Culture.PDF

take a look at this interesting paper.

Faust

If you say that some black people smell, and that's why people are prejudiced against them, then you are justifying their prejudice by giving a reason for it.If you say some women are stupid, that's why people are prejudiced against them, same deal. Same deal for any prejudice - if you give a reason for a prejudice, then you are saying the prejudice is founded and has a reason, and therefore is a legitimate prejudice.

These have to be the funniest examples ever! Why would you be prejudice against someone because they smell? Anyway let me give you another example. Some people are racist against immigrants because they see immigrants working in shops and since they are unemployed resent them and say "immigents are stealin' all da jobs!" And btw theres a problem with being p.c as you seem to be being.
The thing is there are itinerants who are complete assholes and thieves and you seem to be negating the fact that they exist for the fact that you like to argue and attempt to belittle me with your snide comments and idiotic excuses.

dr_manhattan

"take a look at this interesting paper."

errr... no.

Faust, you're a really boring person, you know that?

Anyways, as I said:

The aboriginal, amerindian, mexican and south african indigenous population have huge alcohol consumption rates, just like the irish. THAT WAS MY POINT.

EVERY stereotype has a basis in reality:

Italians are all gangsters.
Germans are all nazis.
Black people are all uneducated.
Pakistanis all run corner shops.
Arabs all mutilate women.
Jews are greedy.

Just because there is a historical/demographic basis for all the above, doesn't mean they are any the less offensive. Does this entire discussion have to be explained to you piece by piece?

Yes, the irish are a nation of drinkers. But call an irishman "another drunken irish", especially if you're from the UK, and see what the reaction is like.

dr_manhattan

faust, it'd be nice if you posted all your points in one go, but anyways:

"The thing is there are itinerants who are complete assholes and thieves"

There are members of EVERY group of people who are complete assholes and thieves.

Pointing out a thousand million travellers who are assholes will not make a joke about them less offensive, okay? I'm not sure you know what you're talking about here to be honest.

"why would you be prejudice against someone because they smell?"

Well, it's the excuse I've heard MANY times as to why people don't like travellers, black people, asian people, etc. etc. I have no idea why people use it as a reason, but here's a funny joke for you to demostrate that yes, people do say this about minorities:

Q: what do you call a paki who doesn't smell?
A: Asif

Anyways, faust, it's becoming apparent that you don't actually have a clue what you're talking about, you were "pretending" to be a girl a while back for reasons known best to yourself, so as far as me attempting to "belittle" you, I think you're doing that all by your lonesome...

later

Faust

God you're so up your own ass! It's hilarious!

dr_manhattan

great answer!

bizmark

Don't be mean to me i'm just a little college girl!"

er totaly off topic here.....but todays ago you said you where a man.....:rolleyes: