Am I unreasonable?

DeVore

Its very strange, I find myself repeatedly asked to make judgement calls on content. One mans "honest laugh" is another mans "intolerable libel".

I dislike getting heavy with people (honestly!) and I'd prefer if I never had to take things down and/or get heavy with people.

If someone doesnt, this board will degenerate into useless chaos, like just about every other.

The admins are agreed on whats ok and whats not more or less, but I'm conscious that this is the communities board too.

Anyone got thoughts, feelings?
Tom.

Sonic

nah i dont think so , very fair

DEATH

ye are!
ye ****ING **** ****ING **** *** **** ****ING ****
am
not really though

Slosh

Another point Tom forgot to mention is that the boards are owned by the IGN. Any scandalous/pron/whatever material posted to the boards, the IGN is responsible for. In real terms I could have sued the IGN over bubbs' pic of myself, as could other ppl. Point ??

amp

I think the main reason we get so many muppets abusing the boards is because you can be sure that there will several people who just can't ignore their posts.
If there had been no "investigations" and people getting upset about posts they don't have to read then the $hit stirrer will get bored and go elsewhere.

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Play GLminesweeper! Lunacy Abounds!

SickBoy

Would I be wrong in saying if there was a disclaimer on the main page saying: "The IGN cannot be responsible for any content posted within, if you are easily offended or take exception to certin comments or remaks please do not continue to the fourms."

Jimmy...

ste

I just think it's terr[im]ible that our moighty *OPERATIVE* DevORE should work on Double Standards.

I've never spotted this trait in his character before and it frightens me. An individual who is USUALLY such an upholder of equality and fairness should just turn (like a penny plumuting to the base of an empty tin) to the dark side ... a side where it is [no doubt] dark ¬

gandalf

As Slosh says "Any scandalous/pron/whatever material posted to the boards, the IGN is responsible for"

They may have a legal disclaimer but if someone was to take it to the ISP depending on how bad the material is/was then they could pull the plug. It would also tarnish the online gaming communities reputation in Ireland and try and get servers set up then.

Gandalf.

DeVore

Amp, you'd be surprised to know how many posts we simply delete and move on without saying a word.

We're usually pretty quick on it, but its the persistent offenders who we chase and nail. To date noone has really been nailed, and thats the way we like it.

The problem really resides in the fact that some people believe that the Internet is some airy-fairy cyberspace world outside of the reaches of the normal law. The fact is that Irelands laws are so vast, sweeping and open ended that there is no need to alter them at all for the internet.

But this is not the point. Are people generally happy with the level of adminning?

I fail to see Ste's point, I fail to see where I have treated anyone more or less harshly then another.

We're discussing bringing in emailing-back password style of registration so that we have at least that level of comfort, and extra hassle for the muppets.
(if you think hotmail style free emails will save you, think again, they aint dumb.)

Tom.

bubbles

That is a good idea devore. With the UBB board you can block people entering in a hotmail.com e-mail address or any block address of your choice @ireland.com, @yahoo.com. It would cut down the messing as people would have to give thier real e-mail address, and even if they made up a new eircom address for example at least the ISP would have a record of who created/owns that mail account and therefore identifying the person.

altho if this is activated I think you should select the option that doesn't disply people's e-mail addresses for privacy - but the admins of course could still look them up.

Also you should turn on the option that only a e-mail address can only be used to register a user (if its not already set) According to the board count there is 955 users ?!?! How many people have large amounts of nicks registered ? I know myself i have bubbles,rogue,pikachu,raiden and jade. I could probably trim those down tho, and so could others!

[This message has been edited by bubbles (edited 07-02-2000).]

Excelsior

I have to agree with Amp to a certain extent here. There is alot of shi.te posted here, I myself have been responsible for some of it, but it is only given value by actions like the ones we've seen here the past few days. I haven't seen the pictures, because they have been deemed unsuitable- that offends me. People I have talked to though reckon they were pretty harmless, not very funny Bubbles is the general consensus I'm afraid, but certainly not PORNOGRAPHY!!! DeVore,people have a lot of respect for you around here. Every week I get told about your heroic efforts when team.ie beat the great british empire. But use another famous DeV's tactic, ("we will defeat the british empire by ignoring it") when dealing with spammers. Ignore. Give them no recognition and they will shut up. I can't help but feel certain people just love to create drama, where really they should act their age and stay above it all.

As for IGN's legal liability, my take on it is that even with a disclaimer, they can be legally responsible for posts here. BUT ONLY BY TORT. This means the case would have to be taken thru the offender and on to IGn. Very easy to defend in court. The only damage that can be done is to our own repuatations (which we should fight for, because Quake players aren't the sexiest demographic in ireland) I severly doubt Bubble's "*dirt*" would affect that.
My 60,000,000 roubles worth.
Kevin

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We are superfriends
Super friends are we

Hobbes

One mans joke...

What I might take as funny if it came from a friend, I'd find offensive if it came from someone I don't know.

I found Adras picture to be offensive (actually they all were if you didn't realise), but then I wasn't in on the private joke. But then if it was private it should of stayed that way, regardless that the pictures were sent around IRC.

Now the double standards. As bubbles demonstrated, a stranger posting that kind of kack to the board looses thier privilages pretty quickly and gets the wrath of Devore (be it all cute fuffy bunny type rage). But if a regular posts it, its alright then? So what sort of message are you trying to get across?

I'm pretty sure if Daa... sorry walt pulled that stunt he'd be shunned in a second.

As for censorship, that's all BS. Just because the boards are here doesn't give you the right to post any old libel kack.

ButcherOfNog

why are u continually bringing up walts name, as thats ancient history? he seems sound as a pound on and off the servers.

bubbles

But then hobbes - like someone pointed out on another post one mans joke is anothers lame trick.

If you didn't find what I did funny, fine.
Some did, some didn't.
Its the same as any other joke, you either think its funny or not.

Whats the big deal ?

Its like some of the things you post. Sometimes i don't find it funny, and i'm sure i felt it was abusive to some people.

But i don't cry about you "spamming" these things on the boards because if i don't find somthing funny, thats my problem.

Stop trying to force your belief of what you find not funny on others. We know you didn't like it, do we have to have a 4th post from you saying that?

[This message has been edited by bubbles (edited 07-02-2000).]

Hobbes

Butcher, I think that's the first time I brought it up? (The name change comment eariler was a dig at devore ) And it wasn't a dig at walt, it was pointing out the double standards that seem to exist here.

As for you bubbles. I find it humorous with one hand your telling me to stop spamming kack on the boards, then asking that you be allowed? Big difference between something being offensive and not being funny.

Anyway if anyone feels offensive at what I post, they only have to bring it up, although I doubt I've reached the level at what you posted.

But ffs, will you listen to yourselves, I remember only a few months back Devore crying to stop people acting the b0llix on the boards as the Irish quake community had an image to maintain, and you's go and do it and it's alright?

And to drag up old history, what about the time Peewee posted all that sh1t about Toulouse and the others? Find that funny? I don't think so.

But anyway, please don't let me stop you from posting whatever you want and IGN allow (As long as it has nothing to do with me, I don't care), but when a complete newbie stranger does the exact same thing don't be so harsh, or you will make out the Irish Quake community to be elitest snobs.

amp

It's not about Irish laws or fancy security measures to prevent morons from posting. It's about attitudes.
I come on to the boards read a couple of posts, reply to the ones I find interesting and then go. I might read a post by a muppet, get bored and then mentally flag them as muppets and rarely read stuff by them again. The only humour value I get is if someone loses their cool and rants on about the obvious fact that the muppet is in fact a muppet.

Click me for a more detailed explaination.

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Play GLminesweeper! Lunacy Abounds!

DeVore

>it was pointing out the double standards that seem to exist here.

This is the bit that really bothers me.
Anyone who knows me knows I dont operate double standards, at least not knowingly.

Before I knew who it was, I posted this
"If Ali G wants to come clean now, then we can all have a laugh about it, because on Monday its going to get serious."

Now how is it that I am operating a double standard when I said that prior to knowing who it was?

Nothing bugs me worse then accusations of censorship, hypocrisy, double standards, underhandedness or favouritism.

As for Walt, who was it backed him consistantly when everyone wanted to cruxify him? Who got him reinstated while everyone said "He'll never change"?

There are more "selective memories" about then "double standards" me thinks...

DeV.

Shinji

Hobbes raises some interesting points.

Yes, at one point it was asked that these boards calm down because of a certain (fake?) image which people wished to project of the Irish Quake Scene.

Yes, the boards are elitist. Very much so. The majority of people on these boards know large numbers of others here in real life, and meet on a regular basis, which contributes hugely to that.

The community has grown closed, cliquey and b1tchy in its old age; it hasn't grown that much since the early days, and that lack of new blood has caused stagnation of a sort that has not occured in the UK or elsewhere.

Frankly, there are a lot of really great people involved here, but right now, the "community" isn't much cop. We spend more time moaning about each other and about the games we play than we do playing the games themselves, or simply enjoying it. I'm going to sound silly saying this; but I miss the way the Irish games scene used to be. I don't think I'm the only one either.

Ja,
Rob

quozl

Sorry, just found that funny
Shinji complaining about ppl moaning instead of playing the game, on a quake board.
Emm, shinji play quake? When?
QUozl

Hobbes

Hardly selective. Everyone wanted to cruxify
Daa for extremly justified reasons (not walt, he's a nice chap who I have no dealing with so doesn't bother me in the slightest). How Daa ever managed to get away with the amount of crap he pulled in the past is beyond me.

But how about letting peewee coming back? He did just as much as Daa did in his day but because he so new to scene he got banned, his work banned and threats of his boss being called in work.

Anyway I'm arguing a moot point here. I took offensive to it, because I didn't realise it was an in joke, most who didn't thought the same (I cracked up laughing at the Save the bubbles foundation though).

If you's want to that kind of stuff, I'm not going to get in anyones way, just next time your looking for sponsership and some company reads the boards and doesn't get the in joke, don't forget to tell them it's ok because they are one of "us".

bubbles

I'll ask you nicely not to laugh or make fun of The save the bubbles Foundation. Its not a laughing matter. It is 100% serious. So for i got a mail from some young one in Canada on how to make a donation - and I expect one from all of you.

bubbles

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Help bubbles, help himself http://www.triberspace.com

Paladin

Actually Shinji, I missed the old quake scene too.
Clean missed it. Never saw it
Thats cause im only here recently as the "new blood" that doesnt seem to exist. So also are my m8's Steven Davoc and a few more. Its partially cause lots of the new quakers couldnt be ars ed, or even know about, posting.

Hobbes

Prolly someone I was talking too.

You know you can set up an online account and let them just use thier credit cards (saw it on an online Hobo).

Koopa

i think it should be up to the people that the stuff was aimed at, they know whether it was a joke obviously (BUNNY: thursday morning 9:00, in court, youre DEAD, my lawyer KNOWS you were the mysterious FALGAROTH, i found your behaviour EXTREMELY OFFENSIVE,(BRUTUS's cousin, CLARENCE the fisherman, nudge nudge, I THINK YOU KNOW WHAT I AM TALKING ABOUT, MR. BUNNY..,it took me 3 days of intense fishing to get all my stuff(+34 damage, +12 health) back

Sonic

sam u eejit

DeVore

Paladin has a point.
I've played a lot of CA over the last year and seen a lot of new players come online playing CA. I've tried to be friendly to all of them. Most of them are just like we were when we started playing quake, totally enthusiastic and hardly caring if they got beat. (or so it seems )

Maybe we are getting cranky in our old age, may its just that some of us are more political then others.

<joke> and shinji is one to talk about games politics! </joke>

If noone has any great objections to the way things are run then I vote we just get on with playing (could this have to do with the recent arrival of ISDN and non-999 pings in Slosh and Dev's Castle Quake, oh I think so )

Time to get back to some CA

DeV.

Slosh

mmmmm forbidden 45 ping....

El_Presidente

Wanna stop stagnation in the Irish quake scene?

Put the FFA server up on the ID master server, that'll get ya all the new blood you can handle.

Chief

mmmm UBBER 200 ping fer CA..

NYOM..

well i am in bogger land ya know...

*M33p*

*Wombl3*

arf de arf 3=O]

|Chief|.....

Excelsior

Maybe someone should listen to El Presidente's suggestion just there. He, more than anyone probably, can get new blood in here fast, as he has an army of eager Quake slaves ready to do his bidding.

the celtic tiger

Pardon me....butisn't this a quake board????

DISCLAIMER:
If you are easily offended by nudity....bad language or being insulted....don't read on....no offence is intended

If u ask me.....there should be a complaint board....yes r all acting like knobs.....KNOBS. KNOBS

tct

ButcherOfNog

Shinji

Hobbes raises some interesting points.

well, i suppose theres a first time for everything

[This message has been edited by ButcherOfNog (edited 08-02-2000).]

Emperor

In response to the whole "new quakers" thing, it can only be said that the reason newbies aren't posting to the boards is because there's an ever-decreasing amount of Quake-related posts: which is why, incidentally, I've not been posting for a bit.

Just a thought.

Executive Steve

the reason newbie quakers [of which i consider myself one, having only been playing regularly for several months] rarely post to these boards is that there is a dearth of stuff out there that is relevant to reply to; there is a lot of *****in and infighting and instead of a forum for the discussion of quake it seems to have become a forum for fostering arguments of the muppets vs. l33t thing : "Our ways are better than yours" and what bunny calls the simpsons comic store owner mentality. at the same time, the people who say we should be kinder to newbies are overlooking the fact that everyone is extremely kind to newbies: not once can i remember a time when i was laughed at for being a completely incompetent player of games or a time when if i had a quetion it wasn't answered. for all your complaining the boards are a better place than you give them credit for, and the people involved in it, even the so-called muppets are in the main a generally sound bunch of god-[devore]fearing folk.

"take away the wine, a restlessness plagues me"

TwoShedsJackson

Dunno about that, in the various games I've played/play, I've seen many an instance of muppets/newbies being slagged unmercifully/kicked/abused etc. Done it meself a couple of times whilst in a $hite mood or locked

That said, this was almost always on UK servers, the Irish ones seem to be better but could that because a clique as mentioned above had developed? Indeed it could. In fact it is!! Damn, talk about rambling

ButcherOfNog

talking about getting kicked, grailhall is back up

Steven

Ere pal,
I'm not that new . I'm the one responsible for the West cork quake scene (all 3 of us) so nyaaa

[This message has been edited by Steven (edited 08-02-2000).]

Jak

Wasn't planning to actually post to this thread - but something occured to me while browsing through it.

If all we talked about on these boards was Quake they'd be of limited real interest and this so called community would suffer for it.

Quake is good to 'play' ... but i believe there is limited scope for an entertaining read.

Personally i enjoy all the Bit<hing,Politics and remotely quake related posts on these boards. It is far more healthy than a sterile strictly admin'd board where all posts are strictly related to official Server bookings or problems with mouse configurations ... these things are fine and of course good for a Quake board ... but they add no life or personality to the gaming community in question.

JAK.

-And real rivalries make games more interesting-

TwoShedsJackson

It was Grim Reaper I used to get kicked off all the time. Lads, if yis are q2 players check Gamespy to see if Grim Reaper Deathmatch is back up, and if it is, then let the muppet murdering commence!!

The admin is a guy called Garf, and despite being in his 30's and the owner of the company where the server is (Shellnet), he is the saddest sack of $hite you will ever see on a q2 server

He kicked me constantly for being infinitely better than him, then eventually closed the server down cos I kept coming on to it under other nicks and slagging the bol1ix off him Plus, despite the fact that he has a ping of around 8 to it during the day, I can't thing of a single Irish q2 player apart from Shinji* who couldn't bate him from one end of the server to the other blindfolded, and that includes WhiteWashMan

One of his mates told me once that he only uses forwards and fire, with the mouse to turn, no strafing, jumping, nothing. Plus he couldnt hit a cows ar$e with a banjo, even on an uber low ping i.e. actually on the server itself

Highly recommended.


* soz mate

Predator

In response to the topic.
Yes?

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Daddy or Chips?

Shinji

Ahem, on my brief forays to Reapers Palace, I did in fact kick various sad sacks around the server. Can't remember if that bloke was one of them or not

Ja,
Rob