Media Watch - Science, pseudoscience and nonsense in the media

Calibos

The 'SUN' have also been raving about her. The brought to London a week or two ago where she correctly diagnosed a few journalists.(Not that I read that rag )

I must Check to see if she has applied for the James Randi $1,000,000 prize. That kinda money would go a long way for a poor Russian girl!

williamgrogan

Excuse me......... I can see through things, b*****t for example (generally).

PaulP

Davros:

Sorry to hark on about Ennis and Mcdonald's. It seems to me there is an extraordinary claim being made here: that McDonald's products are potentially perpetual motion machines.

Back to basics again: weight loss or gain is about the difference between energy intake and expenditure. They may not realise it but those against another McDonald's in Ennis are claiming that McDonald's products bypass this basic thermodynamic rule and allow a person to become fatter without increasing energy intake or descreasing energy expenditure.
(None of their reported arguments mentioned calories at all, never mind how many are in a typical Mcdonald's 'meal'; which ironically turn out to be not that many).
So if a person consumes the same number of calories from a McDonald's 'meal' as from another, and does not change their energy expenditure, they cannot put on weight. The (admittedly implicit) claim that they can is a claim that we can get more energy from a McDonald's product than went in to creating it, which makes such a product a source of "free energy" required for a perpetual machine.

PaulP

Another interesting article from yesterday's Observer http://observer.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,6903,1143405,00.html


Terry Jones of Monty Python fame argues that we owe the triumph of ratuionalism more to the Medieval era than the Renaissance..

davros

Originally posted by PaulP
So if a person consumes the same number of calories from a McDonald's 'meal' as from another...

That's not the argument I've been hearing (maybe I'm being selective). I thought the point was that eating in McD's encourages the intake of far more calories than normal.

I assembled a quick meal on the McDonald's UK site: Big Mac, medium fries, medium Coke, McFlurry. Total 1282 calories, 49g fat. Seems a lot to me. And that's without the inevitable invitation to "go large" for a few pennies.

It's cheap, convenient, tasty, seductive and a magnet for kids. I can hardly keep out of the place myself. It's at least plausible that fast food outlets are contributing to the rise in obesity, wouldn't you say?

PaulP

Davos: why pick on McDonalds? It does not matter where the calories come from, it's the quantity that counts. To single out one source of calories is to give in to prejudice (at least) or magical thinking (by ascribing special effects to calories from McDonalds)

davros

Because they have applied for planning permission for a new outlet. If a new pub wants to open in Temple Bar, the planners might say no, there are already enough pubs in the area.

Likewise, Ennis planners might say "thus far and no farther, another fast food emporium is not what the town needs". That's what planners are for, to ensure the right mix of housing, offices, shops, services...

It is unusual to raise an objection based on health but it is the health board's remit. The planners can ignore it if they wish.

(Actually, I do think it is partly because it's McDonald's and not a local chipper that this action is being taken. You can say that's irrational but I still believe there are legitimate arguments for limiting fast food outlets on health grounds. They might be overruled but they are worth airing.)

williamgrogan

We have obviously decided that McDonalds is a subject for discussion by the ISS.

At night the main streets & their occupants of Ennis, Cavan and Cork, & Temple Bar, (towns that I know of), are a smelly, drunken disgrace. Nowhere in the whole of France have I seen such public drunkenness and have suffered the stink of greasy sh1t being further inculcated with heart destroying chemicals.

However I have to admit that I fully indulged up to some years ago and that the young French come over here purposely to get stuck into the same awful spectacle.

davros

Originally posted by williamgrogan
We have obviously decided that McDonalds is a subject for discussion by the ISS.

Turned out that way, didn't it? But I was trying to argue that it isn't because the anti-McD's camp is not wholly, or even mostly, irrational.

williamgrogan

I'm emailing the following to Joe Duffy - if you can't beat them, join them.

Any suggestions?

Dear Joe

I write to you about a major fraud being perpetrated on the people of Ireland. This fraud now runs into hundreds of millions of Euro per year. Neither the Gardai nor the DPP nor the politicians nor the relevant Ministers have done anything to stop it. The people being defrauded of their hard earned money are often ill, some very ill and in fact dying of incurable cancers. It includes those with mild mental disorders. The victims are often old, poor, badly educated and vulnerable. The fraud has become so widespread in recent years, particularly with the shameful support of some sections of the media, that it is often accepted as legitimate.

It comes under the general heading of CAM, Complementary Alternative Medicine and includes all or most of the Herbal Remedy Industry, the Supplements Industry, Chiropractic, Homeopathy, Reflexology, Acupuncture, Auricular Therapy, Crystal Therapy, the various use of magnets, and a vast variety of other “snake oil” & useless remedies and treatments.

There are millions of Scientists in the world and virtually none of them believe that any of these remedies work and in fact say that many are dangerous.

The government should immediately launch an investigation into this entire area. When they prove the scale of the fraud they should introduce new legislation which will fine & ban those profiting from the average citizen’s ignorance of Science from continuing to do so.

Bill Grogan

davros

I suggest adding a link to Quackwatch. And the statement about millions of scientists sounds a little hard to support.

Apart from that, it certainly stakes out a strong position and grabs the attention.

I've written a few pretty strong emails in recent months in response to broadcasts / newspaper items. I can't claim any results though. Perhaps it needs more folks complaining about these things.

williamgrogan

wilko Quackwatch

what part about the Scientists? That there are millions or that they are not overwhelmingly opposed to pseudoscience?

I think its important to state that the vast majority of Scientists do not believe in this rubbish. If the "CAM Artists" disagree they have to have some evidence that Scientists believe in quackery and if not they have to argue that Scientists are wrong. That's an easy enough position to argue against.

I may be wrong but I think it's necessary to send a snail mail as they may give it more weight?

davros

Originally posted by williamgrogan
That there are millions or that they are not overwhelmingly opposed to pseudoscience?

Just that it's hard to speak for virtually every scientist on the planet. I'm sure many have never expressed an opinion one way or the other on alternative medicine. And, since many doctors believe in CAM, why not scientists? Pat Kenny is an engineer but he didn't seem to leave college with a BS detector.

I don't want to make a big thing out of it - it isn't central to your point. Just thought I'd mention it.

williamgrogan

Pat Kenny is an engineer but he didn't seem to leave college with a BS detector

Obviously or he won't have got into RTE

Calibos

Not wanting to take the thread off topic, but Pat Kenny reminded me of the Late Late repeat last night. He was interviewing the guy who was left for dead on the mountain in the Andes. His name escapes me atm. He wrote a book a few years ago about his experience which has been made into a film. Anyway I only caught a minute or two of the interview. He was explaining to Pat how it was his 'lack of faith' that got him through his ordeal. That certainly peaked my interest and prevented me from moving swiftly on to the next channel. Apparently the thought of oblivion on the other side made him 'fight' for his life and he was able to summon up the will to survive. He explained how he thinks he may have given up and accepted his imminent demise if he thought there were deceased relatives and friends waiting for him on the other side. Bit of a change from the usual, "my faith saved me, got me through etc."

PaulP

Re Bill Grogan's letter to Joe Duffy:

There is some EU directive in the offing that has the pushers of 'food supplements' up in arms because, I think, it treats their products as akin to medecines rather than food, with the result that safety has to be proved up front rather than assumed. So they claim that a sizeable proportion of their products will have to be removed from sale.

Now there are many obvious standard skeptic responses we will all make to this but I am intrigued by the bare-faced roguery they are willing to employ openly. Think about the furore about the safety for humans of GM foods, and the calls from the usual suspects for extensive testing before release for sale. The EU itself bans many GM foods from the US on 'health' grounds. (These grounds have been founds by EU scientists to be baseless and it is now up to politicians to undo the bans).
You can find the same people demanding higher safety standards for foods at the same time as they demand that the lower standard be applied to their favourite 'food supplement'. The type of ignoramus who won't eat certain foods because they 'contain chemicals'.

williamgrogan

PaulP’s story reminds me of an incident. I was asked to go on the Late Late show 20 years ago because I had written a letter, that was published, to the Irish Times regarding the benefits of Nuclear Power and they were having a discussion on Nuclear Power and wanted some pro-NP people. Obviously a bit thin on the ground at the time thanks to Christie Moore & Co (I think Christie’s a fantastic musician but not much of a Scientist).

Anyway in the lobby before the show I got stuck in conversion with a couple of the anti-nuke brigade. I ended up having a row with them when they said NP was dangerous but the two of them were puffing away on fags. They won’t accept that their chances of dying via the fags were several orders of magnitude more likely than being killed by NP.

PS

(Chernobyl blew up a few weeks later.)

Myksyk

The 'big' story on G Ryan at the moment is the ghostly shennanigans of an elderly 'dear' who is tormenting some poor family.

A Photo 'confirms' her existence ... see here: for the startling evidence!!

Luckily several shamans and priests have visited encouraging the guest to go to the old folks home in the sky. The whole thing smacks of (new) ageism to me.

williamgrogan

You listen to Gerry Ryan!

williamgrogan

I couldn't find the photo with that link?

Barnowl

Try again William. I found it ok. HUGELY impressive!!!:rolleyes:

williamgrogan

Regarding the McDonalds in Ennis

Todays UK Independent has a story about obesity

Doctors warn of 'terrifying' rise in obesity

http://news.independent.co.uk/uk/health/story.jsp?story=490469

williamgrogan

OK. Missed it because I went searching in the other links. Or maybe when I first looked the ghost was missing from the photograph?



Anyone out there with some skill in analysing photos?

It looks like the sort of flaw that occurs when a bright light falls onto a picture. I have often seen this type of flaw on photographs although admittedly not in the shape of a person. Should be easy to dismiss. I wonder was it an accident or did someone construct this picture?

dogs

According to the article ...

...a private investigator with a night vision camera who was passing called in and caught the Spirit on film...

So ghosts can be seen with night vision cameras ? And people accept this without questioning ? Excellent! From my very limited understanding of the technology, the two most common forms of night photography are infra-red and low light.

Low light makes the most of available light and amplifies so that us lacking humans can see. Does this mean ghosts are visibile but choose to only reveal themselves when it's dark ? I'm not sure I understand the deep spiritual impacts of this. When you've exhausted all conversation with Napolean, Einstein and Benny Hill, the only real fun in the universe is hide and seek ?

Infra-red cameras would be picking up emitted infra-red energy from a body (or shining a big IR torch, whatever). Does this mean ghosts emit energy ? Can we harness them to solve our energy problems ?

Why, if some bloke is a "Private Investigator" can he turn up with something that you'll find on a 300 euro camcorder and claim it's sophisticated enough to see into a spirtual plane -- then pop it out onto a VHS tape you can send to your friends.

Sigh....

williamgrogan

The "Cork Examiner", sorry the "Examiner", ran the photo in colour and the story today as if it was fact. No s******s, nothing.

The nearest thing that the red bit looks like is a thumb. Could be the photographer's thumb. That's my guess anyway.

PaulP

Don't you love it how the guy with the camera just happened to be passing. I bet if a proper search for the 'ghost' were performed and did not produce any sightings the usual suspects would blabber that the poor cratur is camera-shy..

Myksyk

Nice review in the IT today by patrick Smyth of a book called "How Mumbo Jumbo Conquered the World: A Short History of Modern Delusions" by Francis Wheen. Smyth tells us 'Francis Wheen's polemic against the triumph of anti-rationalism is a joy". It looks great ... has anyone seen or got the book?

sextusempiricus

Originally posted by Myksyk
Nice review in the IT today by patrick Smyth of a book called "How Mumbo Jumbo Conquered the World: A Short History of Modern Delusions" by Francis Wheen. Smyth tells us 'Francis Wheen's polemic against the triumph of anti-rationalism is a joy". It looks great ... has anyone seen or got the book?

I've just read it. Much of it will already be well known to members of the ISS. Wittily written, it describes various forms of irrationality such as UFOs, alien encounters, spiritualism, creationism and many more often believed in by someone famous and/or influencial. To take just one example Prince Philip's former equerry, Air Chief Marshall Sir Peter Horsley, claimed in his memoirs to have met an extra-terrestrial creature called Janus who told him that the Duke of Edinburgh was a man of great vision. A senior officer at the MOD commented, "How unfortunate that the public will learn that the man who had his finger on the button at Strike Command was seeing little green men." The book is full of such anecdotes sandwiched between lengthy sections on the rise and influence of Margaret Thatcher and the Ayatollah Khomeini both in their own way representing 'messianic' creeds whose clash was to lead to the attack on the twin towers. Wheen associates Thatcher and US presidents like Reagan with the rise of a "greed is right" outlook. Institutions indulged in their own form of irrationality. Wheen states,

Most people would regard it as suicidally irrational to embark on a credit-card splurge without giving a thought to how the bills can ever be paid. Yet when the denizens of Wall Street did just that in the 1980s, they were lionised.

Fundamentalism is Wheen's bete noir but I must admit to being unconvinced that Maggie Thatcher's espousal of monetarism and rejection of Keynesian management of the economy combined with her adherence to 'Victorian' values was a major stimulus to the rise of popular beliefs in nonsense. Wheen is certainly a supporter of the Enlightenment outlook i.e scepticism. Thatcher herself, I would argue, was at least partly influenced by such Enlightenment thinkers as Adam Smith and his friend David Hume. In a climate of get rich quick by fair means or foul I must admit that perhaps the peddlars of 'snake oil' and 'voodoo science' had a golden opportunity to rip off people, even sophisticated people who should have known better. Perhaps like the Victorian social Darwinist, Herbert Spencer, Thatcher was keen to curtail the role of the nanny state allowing the people more freedom to do their own thing even if they chose to attend quacks. But you cannot blame Thatcher for the sometimes wayward decisions people make. Many today might probably agree with much that she championed. Wheen is probably just indulging in his anti-Thatcher prejudices. I suspect the present day popularity of mumbo-jumbo is far more complex than Wheen realises. For example perhaps CAM is so popular because the 6 minutes consultation with the average GP often leaves patients dissatisfied. People are exposed to so much information and disinformation on the various media that choices are often increasingly difficult to make. What's important is making informed choices. Here the modern retreat from Enlightenment values is important. The Enlightenment, as I've suggested above, was that most sceptical of times and is important to Wheen to judge from his quotes of Kant, Hume, Franklin and Jefferson. Kant had written in 1784 that,

Enlightenment is man's emergence from his self-incurred immaturity. Immaturity is the inability to use one's own understanding without direction from another. this immaturity is self-incurred if its cause is not lack of understanding, but lack of resolve and courage to use it without another's guidance. Sapere aude! Dare to know! That is the motto of Enlightenment.

But if we are to make those informed decisions and not be led by the nose by charlatans eager to make a quick buck from the gullible we need urgently education in critical thinking and here Wheen has nothing to say. Indeed Neil Postman is a lot more helpful in his 'Building a Bridge to the 18th Century'.
Still Wheen still has some useful things to say. He has some interesting asides. He is not at all impressed by modern contenders for the US presidency. George W. Bush is a 'genial chump' and Al Gore a 'moderately intelligent liar and influence-pedlar.' this is contrasted with the candidates in 1800, John Adams and Thomas Jefferson. That election also happened to be a contest between two men of intellect, one being the president of the American academy of Arts and Sciences and the other president of the American Philosophical society.
Wheen's attacks on postmodernism and the growth of relativism are particularly germane and its good to be reminded of Alan Sokal's spoof postmodernist essay that was published in Social Text and which showed up what utter twaddle postmodernism is. This too is mentioned by Postman whose book is certainly more provoking and written more elegantly if less amusingly than Wheen's. How Mumbo Jumbo Conquered the World is worth reading however.

williamgrogan

Excerpts (hopefully less than 10%) of a Letter in today's IT

Madam, - I ? right .. spoil .. vote.

I .... deputy returning officer ..... ... no more than one per cent of the total poll. Most are spoiled by accident. The most common reason is failure to indicate a preference by inserting for example two "number one preferences". .... not be possible .... electronic system.

Deliberate spoiling occurs in only 2 or 3 per cent of all spoiled votes. .........

OK?

PaulP

Regarding Wheen's attack on Margaret Thatcher. I think his argument is stronger than has been acknowledged here. It comes in two parts:

1) An attack on her economic policies: as he points out the supposedly discredited Keynesian period produced far superior economic performance than its more "free-market" successor. Indeed it is a proper matter of interest to skeptics as to how the relatively pathetic performance of Western economies in latter years has come to be seen to be impressive.

2) Her period in office saw the coming of the management "guru", a tribe whose credibility Wheen destroys. The cult of management was very much a Maggie thing, with her slogan of "the right to manage". Unfortunately the cult grows ever stronger( and is destroying our health service , IMHO).