Saddam busted

bbop

So what sort of punishment will the Americans dish out.



Ousted Iraqi President Saddam Hussein has been arrested in Iraq, according to unconfirmed reports.
Members of the Iraqi Governing Council and Kurdish officials said he had been captured in his ancestral hometown of Tikrit, north of the capital Baghdad.

The US Defence Department said it had no confirmation of the report.

Saddam Hussein is the most wanted man on the list issued by US authorities but has not been seen since Baghdad fell to US forces in April.

Intensive search

A spokeswoman for US-led coalition forces in Baghdad said that a "very important" announcement would be made at a news conference at 1200 GMT but would not give further details.

Saddam Hussein has been the subject of intensive searches by US-led forces in Iraq but previous attempts to locate him have proved unsuccessful.

People have started celebrating the possible capture in the streets of Baghdad and the northern Iraqi city of Kirkuk.

The former Iraqi leader was last seen in television footage shot in April at a Baghdad market just before the city fell to US forces in the recent Iraq conflict.

US authorities have offered a $25m reward for information leading to his capture.

TheWolf

It's about time. And they have now confirmed it, apparently the CIA had him DNA tested to make sure. Maybe now progress can be made over there.

Why do I get the feeling its going to help that pleb Bush being re-elected

TheWolf

Originally posted by bbop
So what sort of punishment will the Americans dish out.

Imprisonment most likely. I'd like to see him lynched to pieces by his own people, be a nice bit of poetic justice :mad:

rymus

Originally posted by TheWolf
Why do I get the feeling its going to help that pleb Bush being re-elected

Ohh sweet Jesus Noooooooooooo!

Red Alert

Doesn't anyone feel sorry for 'dear old uncle saddam' ?

Jim

Originally posted by bbop
So what sort of punishment will the Americans dish out.

didnt the yanks say last week that any war criminals would be handed over to the iraq authority?

TheSonOfBattles

When he was caught he was apparantly wearing a false beard. Great disguise for a start. What's even better is that to escape, he dug himself a hole in the basement, and the troops had to dig him back out. Kinda makes you feel bad for the poor guy, and you have to wonder where he'll be trialed, and just what he'll say in the court.

Judge: "So Mr. Hussein, where did you get all this weaponry of mass destruction?"
Saddam: "Well, your Honour, I just went to the this shop called U.S.A., and they was offering special deals on missles. Buy now, pay by being relentlessly hunted and ridiculed several years later. Well, that just sounded to good to pass up. Who knew it'd come back to bite me in the as* years later"

Hahahahhahahahahahaahhahahahahah Seriously, GO AMERICA!

Paddy20

Saddam, could still very easily come to a 'sticky' end. Even before he appears on trial, and that might save the Yanks & British some embarrassment!.

The assassins must be lining up by the score ?..

P.:ninja:

TheSonOfBattles

So, it was true. Wolverine squad 1 and 2 catch Saddam Hussein in a spider hole along with 750k, 2 AK-47's, a pistol and a taxi.

New's headline = Wolverine captures Saddam Hussein in Spiderman's Hole

Bout time those damn muties did something good for humanity for a change.

I'm not a rascist by the way, /me loves mutants

.

I think this, and the fact it was operation Red Dawn(not led by Lt. Patrick Swayze unfortunately) are what make this the funniest thing i've heard all week. Pity it can't go in the humour board.

Also: Get Your Commemerative "We Got Him" Saddam T-Shirts RIght Here Folks.

PiE

Didn't look like a fake beard to me.

So what sort of punishment will the Americans dish out

If they have any sense they'll let the Iraqi people decide his fate, otherwise they'll just have a couple more million people realise that they're our imperialist overlords and we must obey their every command.

Uh... wrong meeting.

Barry Aldwell

Originally posted by TheSonOfBattles
News headline = Wolverine captures Saddam Hussein in Spiderman's Hole

I spy a Medal of Hono(u)r for whoever spotted the hole, and a Presidential Unit Citation for the whole brigade (600 men + logistics troops) they sent after him.

bus77

Just seen the footage of him on tv with the big beard on him, A Dna test would be important , otherwise youd never know I you had Saddam or Santa.
Ho! Ho! Ho! We will crush the infidels

On a serious note, wonder where they will hold the the trial?
Some are saying this will open a can of worms for the US when it goes to trial. Personally I dont think they give a ****.
If it's handeld in a Iraqi court he will be executed, the US would prefer if it went like that.

Barry Aldwell

Originally posted by bus77
If it's handeld in a Iraqi court he will be executed, the US would prefer if it went like that.

Providing the CIA has a chance to extract certain pieces of information, and clear up some "misunderstandings" about WMD, of course

TheWolf

Apparently they've been saying that they are going to leave it up to the Iraqis. They also want to get it over with as soon as possible.

AFAIK, wasn't his beard real?

TheSonOfBattles

Update: Paris Hilton gives her thoughts on the the capture of Saddam Hussein in her web blog:

Web Blog

Also, yes the beard was real. My bad. But then again, I had only heard half the story at the time.

Moving on though, who cares what happens to Saddam, what about the poor bastids who played him in every press conference and movie he ever did? What about them? Where will they go now? Successful Hollywood careers playin him in Hot Shots Part Troix maybe?

Oh, and afaik, they have done a DNA test, and know it's him. Then again, as you can see above, i've been wrong once already, so it could just be Santa Cluas they have.

In a totally unrelated note,Christmas has been cancelled this year . More news to follow later this evening.

TheWolf

Originally posted by TheSonOfBattles
Oh, and afaik, they have done a DNA test, and know it's him. Then again, as you can see above, i've been wrong once already,

They have. They were showing the clip of him giving a saliva swab

cartman

in my opinion sadam has been busted for a long time, it was just let out now because its close to elections and BAM bush reelected americans love him,
ah well, i hope saddam gets to see bush and rips his eye out

lordsippa

Wouldn't it have been great though, if 7 years down the line he was found doing beat poetry in some hip cafe in australia? ... I would've found it funny anyway...

Töpher

I'd imagine the beard was real, living in a hole in the ground for 8 months I can see it growing a slight bit! Personally I hope he is not executed, it is too good for him. Also it would be bad for America, showing them as overlords of some sort. So maybe he should be executed. Too hard to pick, which is the worst evil?!

Isn't this the meeting at the docks?

So...what exactly is he going to be charged with then?


Journo's cheering his capture? :rolleyes: :rolleyes:


And these celebrations they're talking about on the streets of Iraq...All sky news had was 2 blokes firing a gun into the air while everyone else just went about their business and then about 20 people jumping around with (red?) flags...Don't go too crazy there lads

Barry Aldwell

Originally posted by utility_
So...what exactly is he going to be charged with then?

I'm sure they'll be able to make something of those mass graves they found, and I'm sure some of the former military leaders would be happy to sell him out in return for leniency.

The Beer Baron

So they finally got Saddam...that's the guy they were after all along right? I remember the name and I remember him being somewhat evil 'cos the TV told me so.
That was the reason they invaded Iraq in the first place wasn't it? To capture him. No other reason was there...no no, none at all...although I do have this niggling feeling at the back of my mind that they were looking for something else but...oooh a celebrity running for govenor- I think I'll vote for him!!
You are watching Fox!
WE ARE WATCHING FOX...

Aw well- some beard on him eh Paddy?

Originally posted by The Beer Baron
So they finally got Saddam...that's the guy they were after all along right? I remember the name and I remember him being somewhat evil 'cos the TV told me so.
That was the reason they invaded Iraq in the first place wasn't it? To capture him. No other reason was there...no no, none at all...although I do have this niggling feeling at the back of my mind that they were looking for something else but...oooh a celebrity running for govenor- I think I'll vote for him!!
You are watching Fox!
WE ARE WATCHING FOX...

Aw well- some beard on him eh Paddy?

classic

Agent Smith

i think it suit's him

conZ

Agent Smith

lol!:D

[CALIBUR]

its good thing they got him time because he was about to kill himself. but I don't think the capture of Saddam well do any good for irag.

Winters

Ah yes. Now the americans have just made the suitation totally worse. Stupid yanks. Expect many attacks on US convoys and the like over the next couple o' weeks. Gowan the Iraqi's ...... more power to ya. They invaded your country so fight for it.

Sadman seems quite bewildered. Heard this total US propangada on the radio today about them "never firing a shot" ... which as we know is total bull as the US Army is made up of kids and rednecks who shoot anythign that moves, particulary the man infront of them with the US Soilder badge, and well any person execpt the enemy. US cannot do anythign without firing guns. Also the "press conferance" on the raio where you hear "Iraqi's" chearing cos they showed the picture of him being captured. How bloody lame and rehersed that was I wonder. Its like watching American elections. God i do hate them.....

Faust

Originally posted by Winters
Ah yes. Now the americans have just made the suitation totally worse. Stupid yanks. Expect many attacks on US convoys and the like over the next couple o' weeks. Gowan the Iraqi's ...... more power to ya. They invaded your country so fight for it.

Sadman seems quite bewildered. Heard this total US propangada on the radio today about them "never firing a shot" ... which as we know is total bull as the US Army is made up of kids and rednecks who shoot anythign that moves, particulary the man infront of them with the US Soilder badge, and well any person execpt the enemy. US cannot do anythign without firing guns. Also the "press conferance" on the raio where you hear "Iraqi's" chearing cos they showed the picture of him being captured. How bloody lame and rehersed that was I wonder. Its like watching American elections. God i do hate them.....

i.racist
ii. paranoid
iii.idiot

Originally posted by #MEAT#
its good thing they got him time because he was about to kill himself. but I don't think the capture of Saddam well do any good for irag.

WHAT THE FUGGG??

Alpha Male

Originally posted by Winters
Stupid yanks. Expect many attacks on US convoys and the like over the next couple o' weeks. Gowan the Iraqi's ...... more power to ya. They invaded your country so fight for it.

Is supporting terrorism an offence in this country? Because personally I find the above language offensive and I am disgusted with Boards.ie for allowing one of it's moderators to make highly offensive remarks of this kind which glorifies the murder of Iraqi's, American troops, UN personnel and international journalists and trivializes the situation out there and the people affected by it!

Faust

Originally posted by Alpha Male
Is supporting terrorism an offence in this country? Because personally I find the above language offensive and I am disgusted with Boards.ie for allowing one of it's moderators to make highly offensive remarks of this kind which glorifies the murder of Iraqi's, American troops, UN personnel and international journalists and trivializes the situation out there and the people affected by it!

I agree with the above statement and or remark.

Alpha Male

Originally posted by Faust
i.racist
ii. paranoid
iii.idiot

It's unbelievable that he is also a moderator. I think the administrators of this board should strip him of his moderator duties and even to go as far as banning him from the boards altogether.

Alpha Male

Originally posted by utility_
So...what exactly is he going to be charged with then?

Crimes against humanity. The attrocities he committed against the people of Iraq are well documented

The Beer Baron

Crimes against humanity. The attrocities he committed against the people of Iraq are well documented

Show me any country on earth that hasn't committed atrocities?
I could point @ the Bush administration, or Israel or...neh that's so hackneyed now I...no sorry I brought it up. Let's...yeah...

It's all to easy, for example, to paint both sides of both the War of Independance and the Irish Civil War with the "Atrocity" brush.

There's lots of bad people in the world.
The world is full of Saddams.
The US had a vast well of despotism from which to draw their blood, but they wanted to draw oil up with it. Simple as that.

No wmd's of course, and no Osama, but they got Saddam with a beard.
Net result? Bush, (re)elected in 2004.

Originally posted by Alpha Male
Crimes against humanity. The attrocities he committed against the people of Iraq are well documented

Don't forget that he had the BACKING of the Americans during alot of these major atrocities, and don't go expecting that stuff to be dragged up in court..

The Beer Baron

No no, Utility_, you got it wrong.
When American chemical weaponry is employed by a benevolant and enlightened leader against hostile anti-American anti-Democratic Iranians as happened in the 80's well that's ok. I mean Ayatollah Khomeini was an evil madman who killed his own people and...

...oh wait.

Isn't politics grand!

Alpha Male

It's a pity that some people are blinded by their anti-yank theories and they can't face the fact that Saddam Hussien is a genocidal maniac who practiced the deadly arts of murder, rape, torture and genocide which is so common amoungest megalomaniac dictators, but instead blame the USA's foriegn policy from a previous generation and long before any of these atrocities were known to the public.

It's these anti-yank theories that have also made me look at the policies of George Bush and the guys behind him that I have gone from dispising them to actually agreeing with some of them.

Also, I hope he wins next November just to see the faces of the people who hate him, I'm sure they'll be hysterical just like when the Iraqi's where cheering and dancing when they toppled over the statue of Saddam and it was shown on all the television screens.

The Beer Baron

It's a pity that some people are blinded by their anti-yank theories and they can't face the fact that Saddam Hussien is a genocidal maniac who practiced the deadly arts of murder, rape, torture and genocide which is so common amoungest megalomaniac dictators, but instead blame the USA's foriegn policy from a previous generation and long before any of these atrocities were known to the public.

Yeh.
Then again anti-Americanism is just soooooo in vogue right now.

I'm not disputing that Saddam was a nasty piece of work. The guy should be strung up by the balls Mussolini style and I'd be happy to throw bricks @ his skull.

However the supply of arms to Iraq to fight Iran is hardly an "anti-yank" theory.
Nor is the reality that the world is full of equally vile men who abuse their power to kill and to coerce those who oppose them. Yet they take out the leader of one of the largest oil-bearing nations on this earth. .

There- it's done. I'm not going to go on about it any more because this topic has been done to death...next...

Originally posted by Alpha Male
It's a pity that some people are blinded by their anti-yank theories and they can't face the fact that Saddam Hussien is a genocidal maniac who practiced the deadly arts of murder, rape, torture and genocide which is so common amoungest megalomaniac dictators, but instead blame the USA's foriegn policy from a previous generation and long before any of these atrocities were known to the public.

Nah, its just a pity that the USA's foreign policy HASN'T changed as in if they dont like you they will do their best to dispose of you and if they do like you they will do their best to keep you in power. Only problem with that is that they sometimes dislike the GOOD, and LOVE the bad, depending on how much the country in question can benefit America.

THEN, there's the countries that go from bad to good at the snap of a finger - i.e. Musharraf's Pakistan, Saddams Iraq, Iran!? etc..

W ashington's foreign policy not only tolerates this kind of behaviour; at times it positively depends on it. It is thanks to the monarchs and dictators of the Arab world that widespread anger over recent events in the Middle East have not erupted into popular and violent disturbances. The last thing America needs now is elections in a country like Saudi Arabia, let alone Jordan or Syria.

To point this out is no more anti-American than it was anti-British to argue against the empire. Those who bandy about accusations of knee-jerk anti-Americanism might check their own reflexes rather than offering uncritical support to the US at this most critical time. "'Our country is strong,' we are told again and again," wrote the American intellectual Susan Sontag after September 11. "I for one don't find this entirely consoling. Who doubts that America is strong? But that's not all America has to be."

Originally posted by The Beer Baron
However the supply of arms to Iraq to fight Iran is hardly an "anti-yank" theory.

Don't forget that they also supplied arms to Iran prior to the Iran/Iraq war. Why? Maybe it was in their national interest to have these countries blow the fúck out of each other...maybe..

TheSonOfBattles

Even though i've been laughin at the fact that Saddam was caught, and the slightly weird cirumstances in which he was caught all day, and making jokes about it(and I will continue to laugh and make jokes about it) the truth is: Neither Alpha Male or anyone else here, and this includes me know the real truth. We all tell ourselves we do, and that the knowledge we've garnered from newspapers, televisions and other sources is in fact the real truth. But their not: Saddam Hussein may have been the scourge of the world, George Bush may have gone in just for the oil, and to take american's minds of how **** america is. Then again, Saddam may have been the brillaint leader some say he was, and George Bush and america may have gone in solely to remove him from power. The truth is, we'll never know the truth, no one ever will no the whole truth, and most of the time, the best truth we can know is what falls in the middle i.e. George Bush probably believes he was doin the right thing, Saddam Hussein was propably a good man in some respects, and probably believed he was doin the good for his country and when he was caught there probably wasn't much resistance.

That said, I don't want to see George Bush in power again, I personally believe he is the greatest threat to world peace in a long time, and that both him and saddam are assholes, and would love to see both of them exiled or killed. But that's my opinion, and in the end, our opinions and truths are always gonna be wrong in some way.

Anyways, the original point I wanted to make is GET OVER IT. You don't know the truth, you never will, so stop tryin to flame people who have differant opinions than you do. I certainly am, because once i'm done laughin and jokin, those funnies will be the only real effect this whole thing has had on my life by the looks of things.

elexes

i believe he was found when he left his hole to chk the times for lotr in his local cinema but wa mistaken for osam bin ( whatever the fuck is name is )

Winters

Originally posted by TheSonOfBattles
the truth is: Neither Alpha Male or anyone else here, and this includes me know the real truth. We all tell ourselves we do, and that the knowledge we've garnered from newspapers, televisions and other sources is in fact the real truth. But their not: Saddam Hussein may have been the scourge of the world, George Bush may have gone in just for the oil, and to take american's minds of how **** america is. Then again, Saddam may have been the brillaint leader some say he was, and George Bush and america may have gone in solely to remove him from power. The truth is, we'll never know the truth, no one ever will no the whole truth, and most of the time, the best truth we can know is what falls in the middle i.e. George Bush probably believes he was doin the right thing, Saddam Hussein was propably a good man in some respects, and probably believed he was doin the good for his country and when he was caught there probably wasn't much resistance.

That said, I don't want to see George Bush in power again, I personally believe he is the greatest threat to world peace in a long time, and that both him and saddam are assholes, and would love to see both of them exiled or killed. But that's my opinion, and in the end, our opinions and truths are always gonna be wrong in some way.

Anyways, the original point I wanted to make is GET OVER IT. You don't know the truth, you never will, so stop tryin to flame people who have differant opinions than you do. I certainly am, because once i'm done laughin and jokin, those funnies will be the only real effect this whole thing has had on my life by the looks of things.

here here.

What you see and what you read is never the "real" truth. Look at all the papers leading up to the war, each told differant stories, each told differant sides. Each tried to sway peoples opinions. You never knoew what was going on, you never knew what was happening.

Originally posted by Faust
i.racist
ii. paranoid
iii.idiot

Racist? Maybe I am but i dont look upon myself as being racist. But everyone is racist in some way, nobody can ever say they never said something racist or even that they are not racist. Everyone is, nobody is perfect.

paranoid? maybe I am paranoid, I have just come to the conclusion that i cannot trust a country that is allowing [for example] Isreal to breaknumerous UN laws and agreements and continue to invate Palestine land and also supply them with arms of way to help them invade. How can you trust a country that gave weapons to Iraq to fight Iran and also then to Iran to fight Iraq in the same war, money? I just dont like the idea of one country thinking that they can control and police the world as they please. Where did International Co-operartion and agreemeny go?

idiot? I have never met you and you have neither me so i dont think you should come to calling me an idoit yet. But if it makes you feel happier you seem to be one too.....

Originally posted by Alpha Male
Is supporting terrorism an offence in this country? Because personally I find the above language offensive and I am disgusted with Boards.ie for allowing one of it's moderators to make highly offensive remarks of this kind which glorifies the murder of Iraqi's, American troops, UN personnel and international journalists and trivializes the situation out there and the people affected by it!

Supporting terrorism? Is supporting the 1916 rising or talking in support of the 1916 rising an act of terrorism? Sure if you look at it Ireland only became a republic after commiting terrorism on the UK in order to regain control of it. What is terrorism? Every little conflict today is now being branded as terrorism by the media. What used to be a small dispute is now a country being terrorised. Everything is now terrorism according to papers and media.

Boards.ie has nothing to do with my view and cannot alter my views. You must be quite stupid to believe that boards.ie control how people think. My views have nothing to do with what I moderate so i cant see why you bring this up unless you lust to become a mod. In supporting the Iraqi's do i condone the murder of innocent people? no. I am mearly stating that attacks on the US will be incrased 10 fold now he has been "captured". I dont condone the murder of innocent people but remember, this was an illegal way under international views... remember the US are still looking for that "smoking gun" .... which does not really seem to exist.

In reality, Iraq is a very devided country een if Saddam had not come to power. The differant cultuers in the country do really, at this presant point in time, not make it ready for a "US" democracy. Not every country in the world can just turn into a democracy as what seems to be expected in Iraq.

monument

Originally posted by Alpha Male
Is supporting terrorism an offence in this country? Because personally I find the above language offensive and I am disgusted with Boards.ie for allowing one of it's moderators to make highly offensive remarks of this kind which glorifies the murder of Iraqi's, American troops, UN personnel and international journalists and trivializes the situation out there and the people affected by it!

:rolleyes:

:rolleyes:

:rolleyes:

The US invaded Iraq. Did somebody forget to tell you that?

Anyway, have the US not killed more American troops, and international journalists then the Iraqis?

Originally posted by Alpha Male
Is supporting terrorism an offence in this country?

Now you’re getting confused - that was Iraq before the invasion.

But hey, vote for the PDs, our current Justice Minister might fulfill that and many more restrictions to our freedoms.

Winters

Originally posted by monument
The US invaded Iraq. Did somebody forget to tell you that?

Anyway, have the US not killed more American troops, and international journalists then the Iraqis?

ah yes, friendly fire. Did you know that the British Defence Minstery bought loats of Orange paint and were panting their tanks Orange on the way over to Iraq [literally, on the ship's]. The reason I heard by a soilder was so as that they wouldnt get blown up by the
Americans with friendly fire. They then discovered that the US use black and white film in their missiles and planes so it would have made no differance. Dont forget that BBC journilist who was nearly killed in northern iraq when a US plane shot up a convoy of jeeps of us soilders, iraqi's and reporters. They had US flgs on the jeeps then too..

Also I would liek to apoligise if i caused offence to anyone, it was not my plan. If you are offended then PM me and tell me, dont start making wild posts about how I should be removed from stuff just cos I think a certain way. That is how Hitler and Saddam [your friend] operated. You are jsut lowering yourself to their level tbh. But sorry if I caused offence, should have probably worded it better.

sceptre

Originally posted by Alpha Male
Is supporting terrorism an offence in this country?

No it isn't -at least not in the way you ask. Aiding terrorists or people involved in terrorist acts or being a member of a proscribed organisation are offences.

Töpher

TheSonOfBattles had it perfect in is his comments above.

I just wish Bill Hicks was alive today. Oh how much fun he would be having today!

Mossy Monk

does anyone else find it hypocritical of the United states to parade him on tv. i remember when captive US soldiers were shown on Arab television there was an outcry from the United States

my 2 cents

seamus

Originally posted by Alpha Male
Is supporting terrorism an offence in this country? Because personally I find the above language offensive and I am disgusted with Boards.ie for allowing one of it's moderators to make highly offensive remarks of this kind which glorifies the murder of Iraqi's, American troops, UN personnel and international journalists and trivializes the situation out there and the people affected by it!

Voicing your support for it here is safer than in America, land of the free and all that :rolleyes:.
Besides, attacking an 'occupying force' (as the Coalition themselves continually call themselves) within your own country is generally called resistance.

Terrorism is the use of, uh, terror for political or personal gain, or as dictionary.com puts it...

The unlawful use or threatened use of force or violence by a person or an organized group against people or property with the intention of intimidating or coercing societies or governments, often for ideological or political reasons.

Dare I say that the GWB in Iraq falls into that category?
Since most of the attacks in Iraq take place against the Coalition forces, you can't exactly say they're attempting to coerce the Iraqi society or the Iraqi government.

I also find it funny that some news stations have claimed that they've carried out a DNA test. That's pretty impressive. {edit: removed. I'm wrong...DNA testing can be done in a day or two}.

Carbiens

Originally posted by Alpha Male
Is supporting terrorism an offence in this country? Because personally I find the above language offensive and I am disgusted with Boards.ie for allowing one of it's moderators to make highly offensive remarks of this kind which glorifies the murder of Iraqi's, American troops, UN personnel and international journalists and trivializes the situation out there and the people affected by it!

Originally posted by Alpha Male
It's unbelievable that he is also a moderator. I think the administrators of this board should strip him of his moderator duties and even to go as far as banning him from the boards altogether.

that aint how things get done around here buddy, slow down, relax a bit, everyone is entitled to their say.

[rant]
and Winters, the U.S. military forces are not made up of kids and rednecks, despite the fact that their political leaders may me trigger happy, does NOT mean the average profesional soldier is the same.

we can all say how much we hate bush, hate america..la di da, this does not give any of us the right to criticise or ridicule the man on the ground. they are out there doing a job that they have trained long and hard to do. With the exeption of the mainstream U.S. Army, (which although are well trained they are not to the standard of other countries main defence forces) all of the other infantry branches of the U.S. military are among the best in the world. and their mechanised and air forces are the best in the world, and although you may counter-argue with the "friendly fire" incidents, most of these cases were down to lack of inteligence from senior officials and not down to "one man and his gun".

so until you've been through what theve been through to get where they are today, dont you dare have the nerve to ridicule someone whose out there doing a hard job, and doing it well.

[/rant]