web hosting board..

flamegrill

Right,

Its too good a resource to close, but due to constant trolling and counter trolling it has been closed. *shock horror*

It was unexpected for the most part, but wasn't comepletely understandable as evereyone there, mainly the hosts involved have been bitch fighting over every single topic.

After the board was closed a fairly large group of hosts, went onto irc in #hosting.ie and had a good chat. We've arrange a meeting on irc again for next tuesday at 9:30am and we expect a good turn out.

oK With that said, lets dicuss what we think we can do to save the admin's time baby sitting the web hosting board:

suggestions:

1) close it (not exactly what anyone wants)
2) hosts/trollers make a pact and stop acting like kids.
3) moderate posts to it like I believe what was done to other troublesome boards in the past
4) just plain don't allow host's to contribute.

If anyone else has any suggestions please bring them along, its a good board, but obviously the hosts etc just can't get a long.

Discuss.

Thanks,

Paul

DeVore

Nice constructive post.

I shut the forum, I think I was about 3 clicks ahead of ecksor as it happens as we both had the same reaction at the same time...ie: ah not that again!

Here's my honest view and some people arent going to like it:

You know the song "There may be trouble ahead!" well thats what I was humming while I closed it.

Something is going to happen on that forum and its going to get ugly and nasty and we're going to be unwittingly the victims of it. And you know what, I dont need that in my life right now.

Similarly when we shut the CS forum it was a massive shock as everyone was playing CS and we were primarily a games focused site (not that we arent now but there are other facets to boards now, back then there really wasnt).
People said we were cutting off our own nose because it was such a popular forum or that we would have to listen to the "voice of the common people" as it was "too good a resource to lose". Not unlike you just have.

When we shut the CS forum people went stir crazy, there was no other viable resource that could be centralised on. A good few people suddenly realised that what we had provided for free actually had quite a value to it. That needs to happen on WH. I'm not sure it ever will though.

The trouble had already started recently. You have to be aware that there are certain sensitivities given that three of the admins work in the web industry and two of *them* work for hosters. Now me... im perfectly happy to put my big foot in someones ass and/or open my mouth and say exactly what I please. Even more so lately as I no longer have to be the acceptible face of an industy company!
However its a problem just waiting to happen. I'm nipping it in the bud.

Add to this that sorting out the various spats, childish taunts, unprofessional actions that happen RIGHT ACCROSS THE BOARD by just about all hosters as far as I can see and you get a board that consumes more admin time then the entire rest of the site.
I can see it very easily going legal. In fact I'm surprised that it hasnt. I dont need a WH forum. Thats the bottom line, we provide that forum for nothing and the last thing I want to do is clasp a snake to my chest thanks.

I dont think there is anything Boards can do to sort out the problems in the industry, I think the industry needs to sort itself out first.
It reflects atrociously on the industry. I think *every* company needs to sit down and consider the impression such actions leave with an uninformed purchaser who visited that forum.



Would you vest your mission-critical servers for your one project with people who conducted themselves like that??


DeV.

yellum

I think its a bit late to ask for it back now. You destroyed something beauitiful. *

This was bound to happen and no matter how many warnings DeV gave all the hosts acted like muppets, add into that those that worked for hosting companies but didn't disclose this and it just got plain messy.

I agree with DeV that it would have turned into a legal bitchfest in the end and I really wouldn't want to see boards get entangled in stuff like that.

Is closing the that board enough though ? Should the sometimes pimpish like behaviour of some of these hosting people be tolerated at all ?

Atreides

Should the needs of the few be put above the many. That forum was clearly a danger to this unique site, and as such was dealt with.

mneylon

It's a pity that it has been closed, but it was inevitable in many respects.

That being said the board is needed in many respects by consumers on one side and the industry on the other.

As things stood, however, there were problems with any complaints being posted etc.,
This was due in no little part to the staff of some companies masquerading as punters. Call it what you wish, but to my eyes that kind of behaviour is unacceptable and contributed to the tension and bad feeling.

Regarding any possible solution...
It is not an easy one to decide on, however, if the board remains closed a lot of the more useful posts will spillover into other areas.

Is closing the that board enough though ? Should the sometimes pimpish like behaviour of some of these hosting people be tolerated at all ?

Yellum: Take a chill pill. The so called 'pimpish' hosting people help keep this site online.

yellum

Originally posted by blacknight
Yellum: Take a chill pill. The so called 'pimpish' hosting people help keep this site online.

I don't think thats a good enough reason for their behaviour to be forgiven over others. DeV himself stated that he would not give favour to those that help keep this site online.

The one thing Webhosting was good for was keeping the hosters from name dropping their services with their "well we offer" type replies thats used to frewquent the webmaster forum. If a company tries to pimp their services in other forums post-Webhosting Forum closure should that be tolerated ? Or if they do make a sale should they give a commission fee to Boards Ltd ?

flamegrill

Why does every thread hosting related get dragged off topic?

Is it an inherant problem in the industry, or does it show that no one is big enough or bright enough for that matter to actually take on the points/problems at hand and discuss them in a civilised manner?

So far DeVore is the one who has stayed on-topic, no wonder the fscking board is closed!

tom-thebox

To be honest its no great loss, there are heaps of resources for people to get information on hosting.

If hosts wants to flaunt their wares that much here let them get a Commercial board like blacknight have done.

The moderators and boards cant be expected to run a flee market.

What good has ever come out of it, a person asks a question and six people say go to the sticky list flaunting their sigs, as for technical questions they could be posted on the webmaster forum.

Suggestion

Ban names like tom-thebox blacknight steve-hosting365, make us use real names dont allow our companys sites in our sigs, dont allow any pimping what so ever, if we want to post let us post not to promote our companys but to add to the wealth of information that travels though boards.ie

If we want to advert let us buy banners.

yellum

Flamegrill: In my first reply I did stay ontopic.

One of your suggestions was:

1) close it (not exactly what anyone wants)

I voiced my opinion that I thought this option was the best and backed up DeVores actions in closing it.

That was on-topic.

You also asked for further suggestions, I made some. If someone else comments on these suggestions I think it is allowable for me to comment back.

Atreides

Originally posted by tom-thebox
Ban names like tom-thebox blacknight steve-hosting365, make us use real names dont allow our companys sites in our sigs, dont allow any pimping what so ever, if we want to post let us post not to promote our companys but to add to the wealth of information that travels though boards.ie

But then we don't know your alliences, and weather or not your advice is tinted. I thought the problem wasn't those who admitted they worked for X company, but the ones who pretended they didn't.

mneylon

Originally posted by tom-thebox
Suggestion

Ban names like tom-thebox blacknight steve-hosting365, make us use real names

I disagree. My handle on every bulletin board of which I am a member is 'blacknight'.

dont allow our companys sites in our sigs, dont allow any pimping what so ever,

A very hard one to police although it has some merit.

if we want to post let us post not to promote our companys but to add to the wealth of information that travels though boards.ie

Agreed. Some of us post on other boards apart from hosting on a fairly regular basis

mneylon

Originally posted by Skanger
But then we don't know your alliences, and weather or not your advice is tinted. I thought the problem wasn't those who admitted they worked for X company, but the ones who pretended they didn't.

A very valid point.

The admins can see the IP addresses of posters - we can't. A casual passerby can be completely mislead by people pretending to be punters when they are actually staff etc.,

yellum

I pretty much support Toms idea.

Originally posted by Skanger
But then we don't know your alliences, and weather or not your advice is tinted. I thought the problem wasn't those who admitted they worked for X company, but the ones who pretended they didn't.

Many of the people here who work for hosting companies have given great input and advice. However they might just agree not to reply to anything that could be seen to be advertising their services.

Example: If someone asks people to recommend a host they should stay out of the thread.

If someone asks what mailing list software is the best they should be free to contribute but not mention "Our Company www.blah.ie recommends it"

As for those that work for hosts but pretend not to, thats happened before and it probaby will happen again, but those that do disclose it will at least know they are honourable.

mneylon

Originally posted by yellum

Many of the people here who work for hosting companies have given great input and advice. However they might just agree not to reply to anything that could be seen to be advertising their services.

It's very hard to enforce that. The sticky at the top of the board was meant to resolve that issue.

A possible solution would be to appoint one representative from each hosting company.

flamegrill

Originally posted by blacknight
It's very hard to enforce that. The sticky at the top of the board was meant to resolve that issue.

A possible solution would be to appoint one representative from each hosting company.

for what purpose?

I agree with the point that we should keep our noses out of "where can i get free hosting with mysql" type threads. In fairness they should be nuked, or simple reply, "see stickys" and lock the thread.

We need the other hosters on here to sort this out.

Cr8or

It’s a bit of a shame to see the forum close it seems to be a great place for people inside and outside the industry to meet up an talk about web hosting & related topics (spam , IEDR , colo … etc) all of the low blows & lies aside the forum seems to be a great place for getting info.

I’m sure some of the hosting company’s clients are sick of seeing unprofessional low blows & lies ... It is your public image you are messing with guys (or do you care?). I think the hosts / trollers should give up the bickering and make a pact and stop acting like kids (work something out ffs).

flamegrill

Originally posted by Cr8or
It’s a bit of a shame to see the forum close it seems to be a great place for people inside and outside the industry to meet up an talk about web hosting & related topics (spam , IEDR , colo … etc) all of the low blows & lies aside the forum seems to be a great place for getting info.

I’m sure some of the hosting company’s clients are sick of seeing unprofessional low blows & lies ... It is your public image you are messing with guys (or do you care?). I think the hosts / trollers should give up the bickering and make a pact and stop acting like kids (work something out ffs).

ditto.

Victor

I don't frequent the board, but looked at a thread during the week (I think about IEDR) and was astonished at how quickly it went awry.

On the boards I moderate, I have direct conflicts of interest, which I invariably admit to, hey even one is a sticky. The nice way to pimp is to provide the professional advice, list suitable places to find further help (including your competitiors) and then say, by the way I can do XYZ for you with my business if you are interested.

dahamsta

I promised myself I wouldn't get involved in feedback posts any more but here I am, and on the very topic that created the promise in the first place. I'm only kidding myself. But it was a good board when it worked, so it's worth it. I'll try and keep it short and sweet:

Make it moderated. As far as I can remember, the CS board came back up as moderated and that pretty much worked. I had to do the exact same thing with the Cobh Ramblers board on Foot.ie, for the same reasons, and that worked too -- a month after I brought it back up I quietly dropped moderation and there hasn't been a nasty there since. That might not work on WH, but it's worth a try, and at worst you have to go back to moderation. If the mods aren't up to it, get some new mods. (This isn't a b*tch, I'm just talking about time in this case.)

Oh, and as part of the moderation, don't let through the "our company does such and such" posts, as someone else suggested. It's pimping and we all bloody well know it is.

adam

flamegrill

I'm all for moderation to be honest.

Fúck all the bull that goes on there! I fear if the board is closed completely the same carry on will move over to webmaster, and thats a bleedin bad idea.

WH board is a good resource/idea. Moderate it, and see how it goes. If at the end of say a month or whatever its not any use, then just cull it.

Paul

mneylon

Originally posted by flamegrill

I fear if the board is closed completely the same carry on will move over to webmaster, and thats a bleedin bad idea.

Which is why it was created in the first place

flamegrill

Originally posted by blacknight
Which is why it was created in the first place

Yeah one of the reasons anyway. To be honest it could go down that route again, I don't think it will but it could.

Paul

ro_G

just a quick note to say we're not interested in seeing the pointed digs and scrapping move over to the p45 tech board either. it's already started.

mneylon

Originally posted by ro_G
just a quick note to say we're not interested in seeing the pointed digs and scrapping move over to the p45 tech board either. it's already started.

Agreed.
Although the thread ro_G is referring to on P45 has since been deleted I know that quite a few users of the hosting board saw it, or at least heard about it.
In the case of P45 I believe the culprit was banned and deleted from the board.

Over the last few days there has been a lot of very positive communication between hosts and other interested parties in #hosting.ie on ign.ie.quakenet.org (IRC), however it would have been nice if the hosting board here had been available as well in order to publish any accords that we had reached.
Although some people have suggested that the IWHA forum might be a suitable place for such discussions many people in the industry, including some of the key players have already expressed their views on such and have made it quite clear that they have no intention or desire to do so.

A possible intermediary solution, if the admins/moderators were willing, would be to allow the posting of industry updates to the currently suspended board.
I'm not suggesting that it become a place for press releases, however there are a number of important issues regarding matters such as the IEDR that are under discussion at present. As a number of public bodies and groups will be working on this over the coming weeks it would be helpful if there were a place to post such news, progress and updates.

Victor

Sounds like people (not pointing fingers) are coming to their senses, maybe if you put a formal proposal to the admins, they might consider something.

RicardoSmith

Maybe the WH should put a bit more effort in promoting their own forums as resources for WH hosting information.

tom-thebox

Originally posted by RicardoSmith
Maybe the WH should put a bit more effort in promoting their own forums as resources for WH hosting information.

The IWHA now have forums that are in use by the community.

http://www.irishhostreview.com

oneweb

Not surprised. Only went very rarely but when I did, anyone who suggested any service other than the Irish hosts? Well, God help them. They were to be burned at the stake. Commercial Interaction is what those tactics are for, not an open (or what was intended to be) board.

RicardoSmith

Originally posted by tom-thebox
The IWHA now have forums that are in use by the community.

http://www.irishhostreview.com

Not exactly a hive of activity is it? Also I hadn't heard of it. You should advertise it a lot more.

mneylon

Originally posted by RicardoSmith
Not exactly a hive of activity is it? Also I hadn't heard of it. You should advertise it a lot more.

Exactly. I doubt it ever will be until there is a proper committee etc., As things stand it's hardly reflective of the industry.

eoin@host.ie

Originally posted by blacknight
Exactly. I doubt it ever will be until there is a proper committee etc., As things stand it's hardly reflective of the industry.

Isn't there the AGM coming up or something?

mneylon

Originally posted by eoin@host.ie
Isn't there the AGM coming up or something?

There's meant to be one sometime soon.
If a proper committee and a reasonable section of the industry participates it has potential. As things stand it is not going anywhere fast

tom-thebox

Mr Night I understand your points better than anyone.

To best honest bashing the iwha is not going to help anyone. The IWHA could be an organisation which will grow in the industry. Even if you don’t like its current structure it may change down the line. Can we wait till the AGM to discuss such issues.

mneylon

Tom

I agree, however I also feel that certain people and companies will not get involved due precisely to its current structure or the public perception of same.

tom-thebox

Originally posted by blacknight
Tom

I agree, however I also feel that certain people and companies will not get involved due precisely to its current structure or the public perception of same.

I do understand that, and I look very forward to you bringing it up at the AGM.