eminem / stan video

Kastro

eminem has a new video..
stan... i think its good an wanna find out what everyone thinks of it!

i think it will do well in the christmas charts

wonder what song is next??
ohh snoop has a new song out!

Paladin

Personally I cant stand the guy. Ive never been a fan of rap anyway. Most rap 'music' consists of a repeating heavy drum kind of beat, or a ripped off chorus of an old song (possibly classical). All they do they is talk quickly to the music, sometimes in rhyme.
*me shrugs*.
I fail to see the talent. And its not just because I dont like it. I dont like classical either, but it takes talent to create that music at least.
(I have the same arguments towards dance too btw)

Hobbes

eminem is an *******

Fidelis

Eminem does act like a muppet infront of cameras and the likes, but I read an interview from an english entertainment mag, twas indepth and kinda showed that he's a big poser
But saying that, I think most of his music is very good. Although , he has since filled the gap of Tu Pac and the likes of gangsta rappers in my school, before, it used to be 'WU TANG CLAN!!' or '2PaC' , that kinda stuff, now its eminem this and that, he's nearly too popular among the dirty ****ers in my school.
His music isnt really like that of Tupac or Wu Tang , more personal and dark humour , as opposed to insults to rival gangs etc etc.
But then, I hate dance music, can't stand it, beside the odd tune from like Spiller or Modjo.

---

It's about a society in freefall....

Take it

Paladin if it "consists of a repeating heavy drum kind of beat, or a ripped off chorus of an old song" make a song of your own or album and make millions all music (yes all) including a punk metal band screaming down a mike takes "skill" to produce and to appeal to its audience.

Did you listen to any of the lyrics in eminens songs i aint a fan of rap at all but eminen seems to be some what diffrent all hes songs actually meen something and he makes his point in the songs.

Everyone has there own taste in music be it spicegirls, boyzone or chemical brothers(who i love) i believe that the chemical brothers are amazine and so talented to create the music they do maybe you don't like the music but saying its talentless is a bit over the top.

Hobbes

yea he makes a point like beating your wife is ok.

Hecate

Eminem seems to have created his own sub-genre of music; his first albumn was really good, laughed my a55 off at it but the marshall mathers lp was just more of the same, he seemed to just rehash the previous albumn(apart from tracks like stan, which were genuinely innovative).

Well, it may be unoriginal but it sells records

Mills

I don't like him, or his music.

Kastro

THE WAY I AM

Dre just let it run
A yo turn the beat up a little bit
A yo
This song is for anyone
F*ck it shut up and listen
A yo,
I sit back with this pack of Zig Zags and this bag
Of this weed it gives me the sh1t needed to be
The most meanest MC on this
On this Earth
And since birth I've been cursed with this curse to just curse
And just blurt this berserk and bizarre sh1t that works
And it sells and it helps in itself to relieve
All this tension dispensin me sentences gettin it
Stress that's been eaten me recently offa this chest
And I rest again peacefully
But at least have the decency in you to leave me alone
When you freaks see me out in the streets when I'm eatin or feedin my daughter
To not come and speak to me
I don't know you and no, I don't owe you a motherf*cking thing
I'm not Mr. N'Sync
I'm not what your friends think
I'm not Mr. friendly
I can be a pr1ck
If you tip me my tank is on empty
No patience is in me and if you offend me I'm liftin you 10 feet
In the air I don't care who is there and who saw me just jaw you
Go call you a lawyer go file you a lawsuit
I'll smile in the courtroom and buy you a wardrobe
I'm tired of all you
I don't mean to be mean but that's all I can be is just me

Chorus:
And I am whatever you say I am
If I wasn't then why would I say I am
In the paper, the news everyday I am
Radio won't even play my jam
Cuz I am whatever you say I am
If I wasn't then why would I say I am
In the paper, the news everyday I am
I don't know it's just the way I am

Sometimes I just feel like my father
I hate to be bothered
With alla this nonsense it's constant
Oh it's his lyrical content the song "Guilty Concience"
has gotten such rotten responses
And all-a this controversy circles me
And it seems like the media immedietly
Points a finger at me --
So I point one back at em but not the index or pinky
Or the ring or the thumb it's the one you put up
When you don't give a f*ck when you won't just put up
With the bullsh1t they pull cuz they fulla sh1t too
When a dude's gettin bullied and shoots up his school
And they blame it on Marilyn
And the heroin where were the parents at
And look where it's at
Middle America now it's a tragedy now it's so sad to see
An upperclass city havin this happenin
Then attack Eminem cuz I rap this way
But I'm glad cuz they feed me the fuel that I need
For the fire to burn in it's burnin and I have returned

Chorus

I'm so sick and tired of being admired
That I wish I would just die or get fired
And drop from my label and stop with the fables
I'm not gonna be able to top what my name is
And pigeon-holed into some poppy sensation
To cop me rotation at rock-an-roll stations
And I just do not got the patience
To deal with these c0cky Caucasians
Who think I'm some wigger who just tries to be black
Cuz I talk wit an accent and grab on my b4lls
So they always keep askin the same f*cking questions
What school did I go to what hood I grew up in
And why the who what when the where and the how
till I'm grabbin my hair and I'm tearin it out
Cuz they drivin me crazy
I can't take it I'm racin I'm pacin
I stand and I sit
I'm thankful for every fan that I get
But I can't take a sh1t in the bathroom
Without someone standin by it
No I won't sign your autograph
You can call me an 4sshole I'm glad

Cuz I am whatever you say I am
If I wasn't then why would I say I am
In the paper, the news everyday I am
Radio won't even play my jam
Cuz I am whatever you say I am
If I wasn't then why would I say I am
In the paper, the news everyday I am
I don't know it's just the way I am

########################################
now read over the song above and it tells a story... hes a bit fed-up with everyone bothering him...

everyone has there own choice in music,
mine is hip-hop/rap i like dance as well..

so its down to you what you like

Lenny

heh who wants to read the song ?
if people wanted to read it im sure it would be no bother for them to find it on the net..

:Oj:

Kastro

shaddup

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Kali

wow a song with a story?
thats amazing.
this guy must be some sort of "lyrical genius"

Lord Khan

Music is a personal choice. can't really see the point in starting a thread saying "I don't like it" if you don't like why bother posting about it here in the first place ( anyway shouldn't this be in music or did some admin dump some more rubbish on monty's board :-)

Stan is not his newest song .... it's a good song compared to most of his other works.( why did you start off on stan and paste the lyrics to "the way I am" I am inclined to believe that you may have meant the lather ).

I am by no means an M&M fan but his first batch of songs were a pure pain in the ass. they are getting better.

yes He is a poser... you don't have to be a genius to figure that out hell, but so is ever other musician who has made the top 100
Take Marylin Manson, Britney spears, slipknot, Back street boys. ( personally I think the world would loose(except some erections in britney spears case ) much if those lot were all to suddenly disappear )
.
People can never make the distinction between what a singer sings about and who they really are.

Gerry Ryan spent a week debating over M&M and his lyrics. so I'm not going to be arsed.

If you want disturbing lyrics look at Red Hot Chilli peppers ( numerous references to sucide in there last album ). still a great album.


now lets all relax and listen to some good wholesome country and western music ... oh wait more depressing lyrics and crap videos.

but to keep this relevant to the thread yes it will do well for christmas ... proof I am in a lab at the moment and everybody around me is hmmming the chorus to "the way I am".

and the problem is THERE ARE NO WINDOWS FOR ME TO OPEN AND JUMP OUT.

Lump

That guy is some tosser.


John

Fidelis

LOL
This coming from Lump

---

It's about a society in freefall....

Lump

Do I know you??


Im a lovely person aren't I

John

C B

Well i think anyone who only writes and performs songs about life as a "star" is a major azzhole. its all part of the cult of personality.
and anybody who can say that eminems raps mean anything to them is just deeply involved in celebrity mastrubation.

this man is not lyrically talent
he is not musically talented
he is a medicore rapper

[This message has been edited by C B (edited 27-11-2000).]

Jak

I think he's pretty talented ...

A good selection of his songs are far than just run of the mill rap trash.

His lyrics are somewhat strong, but he has made the point on numerous occasions that Lyrics are just lyrics, they do not necessarily equate to his own feelings.

See the intro to "Criminal" as an example.

Music is entirely subjective so I don't think anyone will be converted on this thread, but although i am not a huge fan of rap music and an even lesser fan of dance music, I think it is exceptional arrogance to claim there is no talent there.

Lyrics are clever, and extremely well performed ... try singing along.

Music is catchy and variable enough to suit a variety of moods.

Songs are on the whole original, and a fresh break from the main stream of rap music, which I find to be somewhat similar nowadays.

JAK.

C B

Jak,

the lyrics may be reasonably well crafted, and I don't really care about how "strong" the content is (personnally i don't see anything too converstial in what I have heard)

what really p!sses me off if the whole singing/rapping about being a celebrity, when he is only a celebrity 'cause he raps. Its very circular and pathetic and I would dismiss out of hand anybody who can say that his lyrics actually resonate with them.

Jak

I am only aware of only one song concerning his 'issues' regarding the pressures of celebrity.

Countless celebrities defend their privacy via court injunctions, public appeal and so on .. why is he not entitled to do so through the medium which brought him to fame?

The song in question, as far as I am aware, is an attack against:

1. Harassment by fans of not just himself, but primarily his family. Countless celebrities have this problem ... what is wrong with using a song to appeal for some restraint on the part of his fans? Or do you think that a celebrity owes you something?

2. Media hype. Although benficial in many ways and undoubtedly cultivated by his label on occasion, he attacks the attitude of the media as they seek to fabricate stories that suit their perception and comments on him.

Jak.

C B

I do not believe that celebrities "owe" me anything and I concur with the basic proposition that they and their families should be left alone.

However, when somebody becomes a celebrity by talking about being a celebrity it all becomes a bit anal for my liking. It is almost art for arts sake (but to call it art would be a compliment).

As for the point that he only does this on one song:
the real Slim Shady, remember me, i'm back, the way i am and most other songs on the new album make reference to his celebrity status and involve discussions of his views on the medias perception of him, and his fans perception of him.

at times it media bullsh!t most get annoying and at times an artist will deal with this through his art but to do so all the time is pathetic,
...... but to appluad a person for doing so is even more pathetic.

Hobbes

The guy is an a55hole in real life. Buying his records (which are crap) is just allowing him to be more of an a55hole, unless he's paying for some operation to stop being one but Frontal lobotomys are cheap.

Whats even funnier is he slags off MTV and they are actually the people who made him.

C B

Kharn,
i do not have any antipathy to rap music in general but i do detest self absorbed celebs (whether thats metallica/ eminem/ or robbie williams). i detest art for arts sake.

Jak,
true but it can hardly be considered lyrical genius and i refuse to see how it can mean anything to people in the same way that Blues songs like "Champagne and a Reefer" " I Can't be Satisfied" or "Rollin' Stone" do

I think i've already answered your second point in my response to Kharn. I do not like the idea of art for arts sake especially when it is as poorly done as this.

Yes i'm sure you could find single themed albums that i love (i can even think of single themed bands/artists that I like such as the Red House Painters/Phil Ochs). I do not have a problem with single theme or concept albums i just do not respect the concept at question here.

[This message has been edited by C B (edited 28-11-2000).]

Kastro

he seems to talk a lot about the fact that he is slagged and bothered a lot,
Oh it's his lyrical content the song "Guilty Concience"
has gotten such rotten responses
is what he says that he only has new songs cause "Guilty Concience" didnt do well, so hes covering his misteaks....i dont care what anyone says, hes a musical genuis, like 2pac but not known as a gangster rapper, more of a comady rapper

Kastro

lol
everyone arguing over a musical genuis, he will always be rembered for his comady rap (slagging britany), 2pac was in fact the greatist rapper of all time, he is and always will be rembered as a ganster rapper..


R.I.P 2pac
long live Eminem

---

Fidelis

Muppetry

Zapper

Originally posted by Kastro:
he will always be rembered for his comady rap (

:long live Eminem

[/B]

yes..im sure that in lets say 10 years time when you ask some1 what they think of Eminem, that they will remember him for that...Hardly. The music industry is a fickle world, and He doesnt have the talent to remain popular for any length of time. I dont acctually mind his songs(hmm prolly best to descibe it as "music") and i dont mind Rap in general. But it can harldy be argued that it does not take a musical genius to write a piece of Rap music, read it for what it is: re-hashed ideas with some-one rhyming over the top of it. It's not clever, its not origional and IMO no1 who writes it can be described as "talented". it's about appealing to the lowest common denominator - simple music with simple and rather insulting message, which appears to be "f*ck you".

mind you. I don't acctually mind "Stan" too much.

---

Dog.
KiT

Shiminay

I'm not into Rap music at all - I'm a metal (mental?) head.

I do however respect Eminem cause he seem's to be kinda genuine in what he's saying in songs like "The Way I Am" and I think anyone who does something in a genuine manner like he has with this needs to be respected and applauded. I know if I wrote a song and put my heart into it and was happy with the final result, I'd at least expect that people would respect that I did it and not just take the pi$$ cause they don't like that kind of music.

---

All the best,


[This message has been edited by Kharn (edited 28-11-2000).]

Paladin

Originally posted by Take it:
Paladin if it "consists of a repeating heavy drum kind of beat, or a ripped off chorus of an old song" make a song of your own or album and make millions all music (yes all) including a punk metal band screaming down a mike takes "skill" to produce and to appeal to its audience.

I have actually written a song or two, but they are my own personal things and sorta suck (more because im unable to play my own music properly ).
Now I would rank my own music as about as talented as Eminem. Why Im not world famous beats me.
Oh wait! Im not a gobsh1te pandering to the public appeal of shock value and i didnt get incredibly lucky.

+ I am crap. I am just saying anybody can write a song. Its just most songs are crap (of the billions that exist I mean)
Eminem doesnt even play a musical instrument. The lad just got lucky in my opinion.

saying its talentless is a bit over the top.[/B]

Talently challenged?

But look - I say this IS just MY opinion which isnt exactly law. Some people thing a sausage is art (go see animation board), so what people regard as music is up to them.
And I suppose I didnt have to say I didnt like him. I could have posted nothing, but if everyone took that attitude there would never be any posts. The whole idea of posts is to say something, whether an opinion, joke ,point of information or whatever.

Jak

I would guess that a large number of artists base their work on the primary concerns in their lives ...

If celebrity status is foremost in his mind at the moment, it is understandable that he will write about it.

Should we critique artists for not adequately varying the themes of their music?

Why do so many classic Blues musicians moan all the time in their songs about their ****ty lives ...


JAK.

In addition, he did not attain celebrity status by singing about being a celebrity.

And why do you have a problem with this?
What is so great about Indie bands singing about their ****ed up depressed lives? Or Lou Reed's depression in the Berlin album?

I can find you a number of albums which both us reckon are good albums, which are in essence single themed albums.




[This message has been edited by Jak (edited 28-11-2000).]

C B

Zapper, thats a bir over the top.
to say that the disposable heroes of hyphopricy, public enemy or arrested developemnt are unoriginal or re-hashed just isn't true. You ca't make sweeping statements aboout a whole genre of music.

Zapper

Yes i can

yes....unfortunatly i came across as a bit rough there. there are some exceptions, but the vast majority of rappers are in fact, Sh1t.

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Dog.
KiT

El_Presidente

Yeah, he writes "clever" lyrics alright but its just not my thing to be honest.

I would rather listen to some laid back music, this all seems far too angry.

Whatever your into I suppose...

C B

the vast majority of chart music is sh!t this is true across all genres

SHADOW

Each to their own and all that. Especially when it comes to music. If you dont like Hip-hop music you arent going to like the vast majority of Eminem's stuff. Fact.

ANYONE who has any sort of a clue of hip-hop music on the other hand will tell you that,contrary to CB's opinion that he is a mediocre rapper, he is in fact gifted when it comes to lyrics.

If you actually listen to the words of the songs you would realise that he dosent encourage domestic violence or any of that other sh!t.

Personally I do like his music and I have both his albums. Structurally they are very simillar but musically quite different.

podgeen

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by OJ:
heh who wants to read the song ?
if people wanted to read it im sure it would be no bother for them to find it on the net..

:Oj:</font>

OJ = Gimp?

Zaphod Beeblebrox

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Warning: everything below is IMHO so don't reply saying the bands I like are crap or anything else that tries to change thethe subject OK?

---

How can you say a particular type of music is crap? How good music is depends on how good the song is, not whether you like the genre or not. You can't say a song is crap because it's rap music, or metal, whatever. The only type of music where I don't like any song is Garage, because the way I see it it's all just a bad joke, mostly based on the Ali G scene which was itself a ****-take of all the rich UK kids who think they're rappers.
Anyway the point is just because you don't like rap you can't just say a rap song is crap, you have to ask is it good as a rap song? If it is sh1t compared to other rap then yes you can say that.
Another way of putting it is this: there is good and bad rap music.
Good rap music: Original lyrics, an original or good tune.
Bad rap music: Unoriginal lyrics, a ripped-off or crap tune.

Example of good rap music:
Cypress Hill - about 'gansta' stuff *but* sounds different from other 'gansta-rappers'. Good tune & beat.
More importantly, it sounds aggressive, which is what proper 'gangsta' rap should sound like - pop music about gangsters (for example Puff Daddy) justs sounds stupid.

Example of bad rap music:
Obviously Puff Daddy. Pop music dressed up as rap. Would a ganster listen to pop? I don't think so. Imagine if Ozzy Ozborne had been screaming "I like flowers and birds and trees that look pretty and smell nice" and helped bats build nests instead of biting their heads off. Other genres can't get away with it so why should this kind of crap be allowed to call itself 'gansta rap'?

So is Eminem good rap?
I don't know but when you make your mind up ask if it's good rap, not if you like rap music.

/me finally takes a breath and decides to stop talking now.

Zapper

It's true that music is a subjective medium. What one person finds good, some1 else will hate: and i don't really think that anybody is desputing that fact. This is more about whether Eminem is in fact a talented musician or not.

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Dog.
KiT

Hobbes

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by podgeen:
OJ = Gimp?

</font>

YUO=FAGOT

[SN]JAG

Here is a link to the Stan Lyrics
http://geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Venue/9769/rap/s/stan.html

Personally my taste resides in the Likes of Ego Sum Papa, Papa Roach, Placebo, on up to The Haunted.

BUT
I have downloaded all of eminems songs i can, some i deleted because they had no point but the ones i still listen to are
STAN
The Way i am
Amytiville

For the simple reason that they make sense.

I dont like the guy, i dont like his image i dont like his attitude. but to quote him

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">
A lot of people ask me.. am I afraid of death..
Hell yeah I'm afraid of death
I don't want to die yet
A lot of people think.. that I worship the devil..
that I do all types of.. retarded ****
Look, I can't change the way I think
And I can't change the way I am
But if I offended you? Good
Cause I still don't give a fúck</font>

---

Irelnad will never be the same
For Free mail and stuff

Kastro

nice smiles

i never heard of those ppl,
are they rappers?? dance, rave??

i also like mauro picotto
he rules

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LegacyUser

I never seen the video will he whole thing be brought back to see???

[SN]JAG

the full vid can still be seen after midnight on MTV

Figment

I love the Video. Any one know who directed it?

Lenny

Stephen King

:Oj:

Chameleon

I can't stand the wife-beating twat or his music myself but you gotta give him credit for using the dido song in stan.

[SN]JAG

he doesnt beat his wife moron, if you listened to the words of his songs then you would realise that.

In fact he is very happily married to kim, they got married last year after he got rich(hhmmmm)

SheroN

Dr Dre directed the video....

Lenny

Dr Dre is a rapper, not a director

plastic membrane

I think the guy acts like a right tosser (insert insult here) but i heard Stan for the first time on Monday, and despite myself, i thought it was excellent.The Dido insert was perfect. Mabye there's method in his madness (if he's only stop trying to act the maggot)

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Im going to the bear fights tomorrow, want to come with ??

BossArky

Eminem = average = catchy = short top of the pops span live crap, BUT Stan = deadly woman singing bit that actually makes the song...without that woman the song would be nothing.