Who are these idiots ???

fenris

What about all of those clowns who sit at 35-40mph on single carriage ways and then got up to 80 on the dual carriage ways, and do everything in their power to get ahead of you before the end of the dual carriageway in order to do 35mph and slap on the brakes everytime there is an oncomming vehicle or curve in the road.

Is this a geriatric full licence for a present Dublin thing ?

Jip

The same type of idiots who sit behind them letting themselves get annoyed rather than overtaking them

LoneGunM@n

How about the people who DRIVE at slower than 70 mph in the overtaking lane on the motorways, but aren't overtaking anybody :mad: :mad:

sceptre

Originally posted by LoneGunM@n
How about the people who DRIVE at slower than 70 mph in the overtaking lane on the motorways, but aren't overtaking anybody :mad: :mad:

Screw that.

How about the people who DRIVE at any speed in the overtaking lane on the motorways, but aren't overtaking anybody

LFCFan

or muppets that speed up when you try to overtake

an_taoiseach

Er,

Are these people sad old would be politico types with 9 year old diesel hatchbacks ?

We need to draw a Line in The Sand on this one


An T

Atomic Pineapple

how about the people who drive at 50 on 60 mile limits and still go 50 through 40 and 30 mile zones? really annoys me, why cant they go 60 and slow down to 40?

Victor

Originally posted by draffodx
how about the people who drive at 50 on 60 mile limits and still go 50 through 40 and 30 mile zones? really annoys me, why cant they go 60 and slow down to 40?

Maybe they are innumerate?

Atomic Pineapple

maybe they should go back to school then!

woosaysdan

Originally posted by LFCFan
or muppets that speed up when you try to overtake

yeah that really pisses me off as well as its dangerous

RicardoSmith

Why do people never pull in and make it easier for you to overtake. This happens to rarely these days.

fenris

thats because they own the road of course !
or maybe they cannot see you because the rear view mirror is angled for makeup and sprog coooing !
Or it could even be the watch out I am a careless driver "Baby on Boad" sign taking up the back window !

How about the clown who think that the braking distance you leave between yourself and the car in front is reserved for their use, and dive in slamming on the brakes. This would of course be your fault in a collision as you would have hit the back of them !

Or the really special people who drive up the backside of the car in front with no intention of overtaking but effectively blocking everybody else from passing !

RicardoSmith

Originally posted by fenris
....
How about the clown who think that the braking distance you leave between yourself and the car in front is reserved for their use, and dive in slamming on the brakes. This would of course be your fault in a collision as you would have hit the back of them !

....

Or the really special people who drive up the backside of the car in front with no intention of overtaking but effectively blocking everybody else from passing !

You can't have it both ways....

fenris

Two different scenarios

1. waiting for an overtaking opportunity - close but with a safe reaction distance 2 second rule ?

2. No intention of overtaking - back off and do not impede other road users from overtaking, you do not know their circumstances or capabilities.

A little bit of cop on is all that is needed to distinguish both scenarios.

LFCFan

Originally posted by fenris
Two different scenarios

1. waiting for an overtaking opportunity - close but with a safe reaction distance 2 second rule ?

2. No intention of overtaking - back off and do not impede other road users from overtaking, you do not know their circumstances or capabilities.

A little bit of cop on is all that is needed to distinguish both scenarios.

Unfortunatly, it only takes a minority on the roads to not use kop on that ruins it for the rest of us.

RicardoSmith

Originally posted by fenris
Two different scenarios

1. waiting for an overtaking opportunity - close but with a safe reaction distance 2 second rule ?

2. No intention of overtaking - back off and do not impede other road users from overtaking, you do not know their circumstances or capabilities.

A little bit of cop on is all that is needed to distinguish both scenarios.

Sorry if you are waiting to overtake and someone else overtakes you, theres a problem with your overtaking technique. Their opportunity was your opportunity and if you didn't take it then you are inpeding other road users.

Doctor J

Originally posted by RicardoSmith
Sorry if you are waiting to overtake and someone else overtakes you, theres a problem with your overtaking technique. Their opportunity was your opportunity and if you didn't take it then you are inpeding other road users.

Overtaking opportunities vary greatly depending on which car you're driving. An overtaking opportunity in a 2L Mondeo may not be quite as feasable in a 1L Yaris.




People who don't consider the other drivers on the road shouldn't be on the road.

LFCFan

Originally posted by RicardoSmith
Sorry if you are waiting to overtake and someone else overtakes you, theres a problem with your overtaking technique. Their opportunity was your opportunity and if you didn't take it then you are inpeding other road users.

This isn't always the case though. There have been a couple of time when I was just about to overtake (ie. I was waiting for the broken white line or we were coming out of a bend) but some idiot has decided to overtake before it's totally safe to do so. These kind of manouvers are extremely dangerous. I've seen cars overtake 10 or more cars at a time and they have the cheek to flash cars coming towards them as if the cars in the correct lane shouldn't be there. One of the times I saw this it was an estate car with the whole family. Obviously the man who pulled off this manouver is a complete gobsh1te who has no regard for either his families life or these on the roads.

Doctor J

Spot On.

fenris

Originally posted by RicardoSmith Sorry if you are waiting to overtake and someone else overtakes you, theres a problem with your overtaking technique. Their opportunity was your opportunity and if you didn't take it then you are inpeding other road users.

To add to the points made by the other poster regarding the above drivel.

Have you ever heard of a vanishing point ?
Thats the point where both road verges appear to merge. Due to some conspiracy by the dark forces of physics and geometry the car in front's vanishing point is further ahead than the vanishing point of the car behind. This means that the front car has more relevant information to feed into their driving/riding plan (you do make them don't you ?).

So when you are cursing the car in front, weaving about, "going for it" having to dive back into the left lane in the nick of time, giving the car that you have almost ran off the road the finger for having the temerity flashing at you mr ubberdriver, bear in mind that driving a car in the real world in not supposed to give you a GTA buzz, 'cos in the real world you only get one chance as do the other people on the road.

Check out the following links, who knows it may even be your own life you save !

Car Roadcraft

Motorcycle Roadcraft

RicardoSmith

Well if your that close to the car in front that theres only barely a cars length between you, then you are too close to overtake. The optimum position is a few car lengths back so that you have a better view of the road ahead. You encounter many drivers who take an age to overtake, you'd nearly get out and help them past in the time it takes them to do it.

Obviously someone who overtakes in a obviously dangerous way is an idiot.

fenris - that doesn't always apply, closer you are to an object the less you can see of the straight ahead unless the car ahead is invisible which is not something I've seen. If its a van or a truck you'll see even less. So they guy behind can actually see more than you can. Which is why th ideal overtaking position is a fe lengths back.

Besides are their any roads in Ireland that are straight enough that the verges converge in the distance? Theres none on my 2hr commute.

fenris - "drivel" thanks. "Driving though science" any chance of an explanation of "perspective" ala Father Ted while you at it?

fenris

lol small - far away !

That is exactly my point, barely a cars length is too close, but that is what you are reduced to if some hero decide to pop in there, there is a section of the driving public that regards any space longer than 2.5m as an invitation.

Roadcraft and the police motorcycle system emphasis road positioning for safety and visibility. You do not sacrifice your safety for visibility.

The vanishing point is visible on every corner and curve of our roads, it is where the road vanishes. It is a useful tool in determining whether your speed and line are appropriate for a corner, e.g. if the vanishing point appears to be closing in on you then the corner is tightening possibly a decreasing radius corner, if it apears to stay the same distance away then you have it about right. if you cannot stop in the distance that you can see then you are probably moving to fast for the road (herd of cows, broken down car, accident stray pibald, car breaking due to Garda chechpoint etc any of a multitude of things to be found just out of sight on Irish roads). General rules but if you draw it you will see what I mean.

Your plan means that you do not have to come up with your options in the middle of a crisis, just pick the best one !

All information you gather feeds into your plan, leading to a very smooth drive in a car and a zen like experience on a bike !

RicardoSmith

That rule doesn't give you any options if some nutter comes around the corner on a bike or car at 80+. If that happens your plan goes out the window. Your closure rate is doubled at minimum.

MarkR

How about the people who choose lanes in the roundabout by number of cars rather than where they are going? :mad:


Hmmm...That lane is nice and empty, i'm in a big hurry / dropping the kids to
School / driving a better car than them, i'll just use it...

Every damn morning!

Mark

Ba$tard

We need signs on the roads reiterating to people that;


An overtaking lane is used only for overtaking!
If you are not overtaking, get out!


If you dont need to use your spotlights, dont use them!
You are blinding people for no reason!


D'ont drive around with just your parking lights on and your spots on.
You look like a muppet and are again blinding people.

LFCFan

Originally posted by Ba$tard
An overtaking lane is used only for overtaking!
If you are not overtaking, get out!

Tell this to the Council. On the way out from Kildare where the roadworks are there was a load of signs telling people not to use the 'Fast' lane. Not the overtaking lane. If they can't get it right what hope have we.

fenris

That rule doesn't give you any options if some nutter comes around the corner on a bike or car at 80+. If that happens your plan goes out the window. Your closure rate is doubled at minimum.

ROFL Honest folks I am not paying him to prove my points and we are two different people !

That is a general rule not the entirety of your driving plan.

That is why you need training and a plan, not a single magic rule, general rules model general situations, they are not substitutes for thinking for yourself, they are tools to help not rails to run on !

Your plan does not go out the window, you execute the part of your plan that deals with an oncomming hazard. Brake ?
go left ?
go right ?
speed up and go for the gap ?
brace for impact ?
spin car to change from head on to side on ?
do I have a passenger that need protecting ?
go through ditch ?
how to minimise secondary impact from car that is too close behind ?
What does hapen if you brake mid-corner anyway, is your vehicle easier or harder to steer ?
if your car detects an emergency stop what does it do, nothing, brake assist, kill engine and turn on hazards?

A lot to figure out in less than 2 seconds - work it out before hand !

Training is about increasing your skills and thus survivability in a marginal situation; it also helps you to recognise potential marginal situations and act acordingly.

So who is the greater doctor - the one that makes sure you never get sick or the one that pulls you back from the brink of death ?

The driver that almost but didn't kill you or the one who never put you at risk ?

RicardoSmith

oh dear that guy on the wrong side of the road coming at 100mph+ looks a bit dangerous, umm let me consult my driving plan, ummm no nothing obvious there how about we do a bit of quick math and work out the speed of that car minus the speed taken to ...CCCCRRRRRRRUUUUUUUUUUNNNNNNNCCCCCHHHHHHHHHHHHHH.

fenris

ROFLMAO

Never under estimate the power of Darwin in action (not the city)

What can I say I tried !

You can bring a horse to water .......
None so blind as .......

#include <cliche.h>

If you really want to hurt your brain try asking about countersteering on a bike forum :-)

Lord Nikon

1. People that drive slow on a motorway, slow, as in 50mph. Why?

2. Cars with horseboxes with no lights. Also, with handpainted reg plates, or none at all.

3. Cars that have fog-lights on all the fubbin' time. Especially micras!

4. Bus drivers who all-of-a sudden, pull out of a bus lane or from a bus-stop.

5. Gardai who drive mondeo's at high speeds. These people have no advanced driving skills.

6. Tractors, JCB's or any slow maintanance vehicals who drive at 8am rush-hour, causing 10 car tailbacks.

7. Regarding point 6, the idiot who sits behind the slow tractor or JCB, and doesn't bother to overtake them.

8. People who drive jeeps, and don't bother to wash them. Ever.

9. People who assume "L" plate drivers can't drive. Everyone who sits in a car doesn't get any special training to drive a car, all they did is pass a test. Passing a test doesn't make you a better driver.

10. People who think a bus-lane is not a buslane. They drive down them whenever and never get caught.

11. Drivers of taxis who drive down buslanes without a customer.

12. Drivers of taxis in the City Centre at 3am with no light on, and no customer.

13. Drivers who talk up 2 spaces in a car-park. Usually vans and jeeps.

RicardoSmith

I disagree with your posts so you're calling me stupid? Then you're explaining your "wit" to the other posters as if they are too stupid to understand? WTF is that all about?

You said the guy at the front of overtaking queue has the best view of the road, I disagree making the point that the best position is back a few car lengths from the "target" vehicle. So you can see past them. You can't do that and not leave enough space between you for another car to slip into the gap. Its a catch 22, but there it is.

You said you work out the distance based on the vanishing point of the verges, I disagree as that doesn't make allowances for vehicles you can't see coming and which you don't know their speed.

As for doing a technical course well, most people can't follow the basics of the rules of the road which is hardly very difficult. So the chances of success with a more complicated course are slim to none.

It would be more constructive if you could make your points with out being condescending and making personal attacks. If you found my previous post offensive then you mistook its meaning since the smilie is to indicate its a joke.

If you were consistent you'd comment the code. As you were told to do in college.

"Book learning" <> (skill + experience + ability)

Doctor J

Cool the jets, gents.


In my opinion the onus should always be on the car 2nd in the queue to overtake, it has the best view (taking into account it will drop back a little to get a better view before attempting the procedure - hence the cars further down the queue will have even further to cover to overtake), all it takes is a little bit patience on everybody's part, a little bit of cop on.

The car 2nd in the queue is the only one who won't rely on the avoiding action of others to complete the maneuvre and, therefore, complete the overtaking safely. A car overtaking multiple vehicles frequently needs other cars to take avoiding action (either in the queue or the other lane), putting multiple lives at risk. The statistics are there, there are far too many people dying on Irish roads. Slow don, so what if you get somewhere 5 minutes later than you might have if you'd done stupid overtaking. Big fycking deal. Multiple overtaking is not a safe maneuvre. Slow down and don't kill yourself or anyone else Is that unreasonable?

fenris

I think you are getting wound up and taking things personaly, I did not call you stupid, that was a title you claimed for yourself.

There is no mention of working out distances based on vanishing points, just a rough guide of the suitability of your speed relative to the road.

You are correct to state that the vanishing point does not make allowances for oncomming traffic, that is not what it is for. Brings to mind the addage " if your only tool is a hammer the every problem is a nail"

I do not think I have made my points in a condescending manner, and cannot be accountable if you choose to interpret them as such.

You said the guy at the front of overtaking queue has the best view of the road, I disagree making the point that the best position is back a few car lengths from the "target" vehicle. So you can see past them. You can't do that and not leave enough space between you for another car to slip into the gap. Its a catch 22, but there it is.

You are agreeing with me here, the best position is back far enough to maximise visibility while staying close enough to overtake safely. Your implicit assumption seems to be the guy at the front of the overtaking queue is too close to the car in front for safety and visibility, that is neither my point nor how I or many others drive.

It is not a technical course, it is a skills development process which like all training moved you from
unconcious incompetence (I don't need to learn anything),
to concious incompetence (there is something to learn),
then to concious competence (think about it then do it)
and finally to unconcious incompetence (just do it).

You appear to make a lot of assumptions about me, you and everybody based on very little.


So please don't take it to heart, if you are interested enough to argue the maybe you are interested enough to look into this a bit more there is plenty of info on the web about this area, bike stuff is easier to find as bikers have a much bigger vested intrest in this stuff.

There is nothing personal here, I don't know you or anything about you, nor you about me. I have had advanced training, I do know about what I speak in this case anyway !

so its not
"Book learning" <> (skill + experience + ability)
but
("Book learning" + skill + experience + ability)*training = survival++


I am not going to argue with you, enjoy your weekend


BTW

#include <cliche.h> should have been

#include <cliche.h>

RicardoSmith

I assume nothing, my points were based on the posts thus far in the thread. It obvious what you are talking about. The're about a stuble as brick. Thats the last I'll say about it too.

The point under discussion was the annoyance where a car pulls into your breaking area when you you are trying to overtake. If the 3rd car has the opportunity to overtake the 2nd car. Then assuming it wasn't a complete act of lunacy, whats the problem with that. The 2nd doesn't ALWAYS have the best view of the road. A little lecture on optics doesn't allow for the fact that you can't see through a car, van truck bus etc. So your view is more obscured than the following cars.

So therefore the 3rd car actually has more information to act on than the second car. If the 3rd car is a much faster card than then the 2nd car then his overtaking distance and time is much shorter than the the 2nd car. So while overtaking opportunities for the second car may not have arisen, there could have been a dozen opportunities for the faster 3rd car to overtake. Why should the 3rd car wait for the slower 2nd car to overtake? Why should be not use the space between the 1st and 2nd car?

The other point is that if the 3rd car moving into the space is moving into the braking area of the 2nd car, then the 2nd car is too near the 1st car anyway. If the 2nd car had left enough space for braking and to see the road properly ahead then there should be enough space for the 3rd car to slip in. In fact a good driver will always leave this space in case theres a faster car moving up the queue.

The 2nd car should realise that if hes not able to overtake and the 3rd car is then he should drop back and let the 3rd car through. Unfortunately most people defend this space and act likes it personal affront if someone uses it. Some times the 3rd car has to do this as a tactical maneover to create space that the 2nd car is unable to exploit.

None of this requires a course, a book or anything. Its common sense. If some lacks that then an advanced driving course isn't going to help. They'll jsut be over confident. Though personally I picked up a few good tips about driving on the wrong side of the road from it.

Doctor J

Originally posted by RicardoSmith
The other point is that if the 3rd car moving into the space is moving into the braking area of the 2nd car, then the 2nd car is too near the 1st car anyway. If the 2nd car had left enough space for braking and to see the road properly ahead then there should be enough space for the 3rd car to slip in. In fact a good driver will always leave this space in case theres a faster car moving up the queue.

If the 2nd driver is keeping a 2sec gap, which I hope everyone thinks is a good thing, and the 3rd driver pulls into the space between the 1st and 2nd cars, there is, at best, a 1sec gap on either side of the formerly 3rd car... which is bad, right? This puts the 3 cars in peril, should the 1st car face a situation which requires an emergency brake.

As for the "good driver" bit? In my experience, it's these faster cars moving up the queue who are happy to drive up someone's arse looking for a chance to pull a rash overtaking move. Is that good driving? By that logic, the good drivers are the slow drivers who don't overtake, they "will always leave this space in case theres a faster car moving up the queue".?

RicardoSmith

So what happens if theres no gap between 1 and 2 they're doing 25 in a 60 and you're 3. You can see ahead that theres nothing coming for .5 of a mile and 2 isn't making an effort to overtake?

Doctor J

You need to breathe in deep through your nose and out through your mouth, relax, this isn't the end of the world


That's a bit of an exaggerated example. I've found it's usually something like

Car 1 is doing 50-55mph in a 60mph zone

Car 2 is a small engined vehicle, maintaining decent gap looking to overtake and continue at 60mph.

Car 3 is in a similar situation to Car 2

Car 4 is in s similar situation to Car 3

Car 5 (with obligatory alloys) blazes past at the earliest opportunity, frustrating Cars 2, 3 and 4 who could have gotten past Car 1 had Car 5 not put them all in danger and spoiled their opportunity to overtake. Should Car 5 not be able to make it (damn spoiler causing wind resistance), Car 5 barges in between Car 1 and Car 2, causing Car 2 to brake sharply to avoid an accident, with the relative knock on effects to Cars 3 and 4.

RicardoSmith

I think we could find examples to prove each others point.

Car 1 is a truck with 20 tons of stone in the back

Car2 is mammy and the 10 kids 2 dogs having lunch in the car and a fight

Car3 is nippy 100bhp+ car with a girl who has done an advanced driving course, 15 years of driving no accidents.

Car4 and beyond, who cares. The 1st rule of Italian driving. Whats BEHIND you is not important. (JOKE)

Cars 1&2 are doing 75 on the straights and 20-30mph on anyother part of the road where overtaking is impossible. Theres a queue back to Wales behind them. That pretty usual in my experience.

Doctor J

All the way to Wales? Wow! That's a spicy meataballa!

Hey, I've done an advanced driving course and a defensive driving course.

The advanced one helps you get out of trouble.

The defensive one stops you getting into trouble.

I tell you this, I'd reccommend the defensive one every time.

BrianD3

Car 2 is a small engined vehicle, maintaining decent gap looking to overtake and continue at 60mph.

Car 5 barges in between Car 1 and Car 2, causing Car 2 to brake sharply to avoid an accident,

Contradiction there. If car 2 is maintaining a decent gap then there is ample room for an overtaking vehicle to move into, so it's not a case of "barging" into the gap. Problem is that people don't leave a decent gap, because the majority of drivers on Irish roads are tailgaters. Plus they're begrudgers - if they see someone with a better car trying to overtake they'll speed up and/or wil tailgate the vehicle in front to make it more difficult for an overtaking vehicle. I have observed this countless times.

BrianD3

LFCFan

Originally posted by BrianD3
Contradiction there. If car 2 is maintaining a decent gap then there is ample room for an overtaking vehicle to move into, so it's not a case of "barging" into the gap.

Car 2 is driving with resposibility and leaving a gap so he has plenty of time to brake if car 1 has to. So car 5 is acting irresposibly by overtaking into this gap. I've seen it loads of times and I've had to break suddenly because some fcuker has decided to jump in front of me.

Doctor J

Originally posted by BrianD3
Plus they're begrudgers - if they see someone with a better car trying to overtake they'll speed up and/or wil tailgate the vehicle in front to make it more difficult for an overtaking vehicle.

Now that's just nuts. The "better car" syndrome. Essentially you're saying because you've got a "better car" you're entitled to pull off these maneuvres and anyone in a smaller car who doesn't want you planting yourself too close to them is a begrudger?!?!? A begrudger? Are you really that vein?

If they close the gap it's because you're putting their lives in peril, not because they're envious of your car. They're probably p*ssed off because some goon from the back of the queue has just cost them a chance to overtake, which don't come too frequenty in a small car.

Patience is the key. Vanity will cost people their lives.

BrianD3

If they close the gap it's because you're putting their lives in peril, not because they're envious of your car. They're probably p*ssed off because some goon from the back of the queue has just cost them a chance to overtake, which don't come too frequenty in a small car.

Idiot. So you're advocating speeding up and tailgating to block an overtaking maneouvre. Did you learn this in the defensive driving course that you claim you've taken :rolleyes: The only one who's putting lives in peril is you by pulling stunts like that.

BrianD3

fenris

Idiot. So you're advocating speeding up and tailgating to block an overtaking maneouvre. Did you learn this in the defensive driving course that you claim you've taken The only one who's putting lives in peril is you by pulling stunts like that.

I hope we do driving better than we do reading !

He is not advocating anything of the sort, he is offering an understanding of ways people react when they perceive their safety / lives to be endangered.
That would be something that would be covered on a defensive driving course.

It is reasonable to expect the average driver to close up to preserve his safety when he feels himself to be recklessly endangered, so first figure out how to overtake without putting the driver of the car you are passing in fear of his life. Most people on the road are reasonable and just want to get there, some feel they have points to prove and are best avoided or not engaged, learn to recognise them.

The obligation is on the overtaking car to do the overtaking in a safe manner.

If you cannot overtake without other roadusers actively assisting you then the overtake is not viable.

So do it properly or back off, you do not know what is going on in the car in front so drive to minimise risk; risk includes antagonising other drivers and causing them to act unpredictibly.

If you cause a crash because of a poorly executed overtaking manouver, you will be judged to be the party at fault (bus for the next 5 years), so while you may feel that everybody else on the road should make allowances for your driving (do they not know who you are?), the law and the rest of the world does not.

Doctor J

Originally posted by BrianD3
Idiot. So you're advocating speeding up and tailgating to block an overtaking maneouvre. Did you learn this in the defensive driving course that you claim you've taken :rolleyes: The only one who's putting lives in peril is you by pulling stunts like that.

BrianD3

Read it properly. I never said I did and I never said I would. Twat.

You've suggested that people only do this because your car's bigger than their car? Wake up. People are scared on the roads because there are idiots out there pulling into spaces they shouldn't, making overtaking maneuvres they shouldn't etc etc etc.

Personally, I give drivers like you as much space as I can, I don't want to get injured because of your ego/libido/impatience/whatever.

BrianD3

He is not advocating anything of the sort, he is offering an understanding of ways people react when they perceive their safety / lives to be endangered.

Perhaps he's not advocating it, but at the very least he's justifying it. It's quite clear where he stands on this issue. He regards people who overtake more than one vehicle at a time as impatient "goons" Despite his defensive driving courses which according to you should make him more aware than an "average" driver, I would fully expect him to be one of those people who speeds up when someone is trying to overtake.

If you cannot overtake without other roadusers actively assisting you then the overtake is not viable.

Correct. Problem is the overtake may be viable when you start the maneouvre - however if the guy in front floors it when you're in the middle of it, it ceases to be viable. And the excuse that the guy in front speeds up because he perceives his life to be in danger is frankly, bullsh1t. It does come back to begrudery. I have travelled with people in cars who speed up anytime a decent car tries to overtake them, their attitude is "look at that flash bastard in his BMW, who does he think he is" I must add that this doesn't just happen when someoen tries to overtake a queue of traffic. It happens regularly during perfectly safe, single vehicle overtakes.

The obligation is on the overtaking car to do the overtaking in a safe manner.

Yes, and if someone wishes to overtake, there's an obligation on them to ensure it's safe before starting their maneouvre. Which includes checking their mirrors and being aware of what's happening around them and being aware of the presence of vehicles behind them which have commenced an overtake. People do this on motorways all the time - before they pull into the overtaking lane, they check that there isn't already a vehicle overtaking them. For some reason they seem to be incapable of doing this on a single carriageway road.

BrianD3

LFCFan

is it not possible for people to have discussions on boards.ie without resorting to name calling and insults?

BrianD3

You've suggested that people only do this because your car's bigger than their car? Wake up. People are scared on the roads because there are idiots out there pulling into spaces they shouldn't, making overtaking maneuvres they shouldn't etc etc etc.

Yes that's exactly what I suggested and I stand by it. Small car syndrome is what I call it. A lot of drivers of small cars feel they have something to prove, as if they need to assert themselves on the road or something. They do this by being aggressive and inconsiderate. Plus with the insurance situation many drivers of small engined cars are young inexperienced males who regard driving as a form of combat and will pull stunts like speeding up when someone tries to overtake.

Personally, I give drivers like you as much space as I can, I don't want to get injured because of your ego/libido/impatience/whatever.

You're entitled to your opinion. However you've got me all wrong. I drive 40,000 miles per year and am a relatively slow driver. I don't have a fast car (Laguna 1.6 litre) and spend more time being overtaken by twats in 1 litre micras revving their little hairdryer motors to the red line than overtaking other vehicles myself.

BrianD3

Doctor J

Brian, you really need to chill out.

I'm not advocating or justifying anything. I'm trying to give you an insight into the mindset of other drivers. They're not begrudgers, they're just people trying to get from one place to another who don't like to have their safety threatened. Do they care whether the guy causing the grief is in a BMW or a Lada? I wouldn't think so. The car is not the driver of the car, the driver is. The driver makes the decisions, it doesn't matter what the car is.

You don't know me from Adam, yet you expect me "to be one of those people who speeds up when someone is trying to overtake"??? If this is how your percieve unknown others when you encounter them (say, on a road, perhaps), then perhaps everybody else is not at fault, eh?

You say that you spend most of your time being "overtaken by twats in 1 litre micras revving their little hairdryer motors to the red line" yet those overtaken think "look at that flash bastard in his BMW, who does he think he is" when being overtaken?

BigEejit

Heh ... Could all the posters in this thread post their car details and approximate ages ... I just have a mental picture of all of the "3rd+ car back overtaking the other ones is ok" being boy racers and the others who say that "the second car is right in keeping a gap and looking for an opportunity" is ok being family car types......

Personally, I think you can see if someone in front of you is going to overtake or not (peeping around the side of the proverbial 20T truck doing 50 and threatening to use the indicator) and overtake yourself if you judge they wont and there is enough space ..... and I judge myself as a defensive driver, I wont be in and out of traffic trying to get past everyone (where everyone = 5 - 10+ cars), those people annoy me no end. I do have a car with enough power to get around stuff without much problems but I dont do it irresponsibly.....

fenris

What can I say, I bow to your superior psychic powers :-) , being a mere mortal I have to guess what is going on in other peoples heads, and plan accordingly.

It is dangerous to make wild assumptions about other road users, you can infer some data but have to be ready in case you have got it wrong and never end up in a position where you are giving another road user the power of life and death over you if you can avoid it, not that I don't trust you all, well actually it is that I don't trust you all !

It is easy to get wound up on the road, but I prefer to get there !

Car - Laguna 1.6 estate, Bike GSXR1100, age 34.