Rules for Boards Pool tournament

Lafortezza

as organised by Dakeyrus Here

My suggestions
1) each pair play best of 3 frames, this to be changed depending on number of tables available, no of participants, time allowed.

2) toss coin for break

3) usual 8ball rules from there, 2 shots on foul, etc

4) Shots DON'T carry, if you don't take advantage of your free shot, then tough. If you pot a few balls in a row from your first shot then well done you.

5) Back table. If its a euro table with a 'D' then play that you cant play back table. If its an American table with a line then you should be able to play back table. IMO anyway.

6) When on the black. I personally don't like the 'stick pocket' rule,
I prefer to play nominate a pocket for each shot on the black you take.

Thats about all I can think of really,
feel free to argue/post your own ideas

Dakeyras

Nicely done, heres a set of rules as by Fitz which id be agreeing with:

No backtable.

Shots don't carry.

Potting the black of the break is a win.

Potting the white off the break is a foul, but not penalised if no colours go down; if a colour goes down, it's one shot on that, or two on the other colour.

No two shots on the black.

Nominate pocket on the black for each shot.

Free balls apply.

Touching ball rules apply.


cant remember what the tables are like in the palace and if they have a D or not but i agree with lafortezza on that end of things about back table

DapperGent

Between the two of you I think those rules are perfect.

Maybe be up the frame count to 5/7 for semis and final depending on time.

tricky D

just had my spooks up there doin a recce:)

fwiw, they have a set of published rules if reqd, some which haven't already been mention follow:

there are no D's, penalty shots can be taken from anywhere up the 'small' end and the uptable rule applies. uptable is determined by the cue direction not the ball direction

one shot after foul on break (ie no penalty)

what about free balls? I'd reckon not.

also, what about the need for someone with the 'final say'

henbane

Originally posted by tricky D
what about free balls? I'd reckon not.

Gots to have free balls. If someone fouls and leave you snookered two shots are no use unless you can hit what you see.

Lafortezza

Originally posted by tricky D

there are no D's, penalty shots can be taken from anywhere up the 'small' end and the uptable rule applies. uptable is determined by the cue direction not the ball direction

Is there a line? dunno about playing anywhere in the 'small end', maybe playing anywhere on the line would be better/prefferred

Originally posted by tricky D

what about free balls? I'd reckon not.

free ball is after a foul by the other player where you can't see your own balls (both sides?) and you're allowed hit any ball, am I right?
why do you reckon not?

Originally posted by tricky D

also, what about the need for someone with the 'final say'

Dakeyrus!

tricky D

er yeah agreed, I'll change my mind on that one. was thinking of superleague free balls which a bit much

can u pot a free ball????

just to clarify, there's no D, just the line is there

Lucutus

Free balls are for snooker, not pool, imo. After a foul, you get two shots, more than enough to compenstate for any awkward position.

henbane

Originally posted by tricky D
er yeah agreed, I'll change my mind on that one. was thinking of superleague free balls which a bit much

can u pot a free ball????

just to clarify, there's no D, just the line is there

Can pot a free ball unless it's black.

I'd say line is more sensible than the whole small end of the table - rules like that make a foul shot as good as end the match and tend to be overkill

Final say to Dakeyras!

DapperGent

Originally posted by Lucutus
Free balls are for snooker, not pool, imo. After a foul, you get two shots, more than enough to compenstate for any awkward position.

If a foul leaves you snookered them your opponent has benifitted from the fact that he's fouled which is a bit unfair.

A free ball takes that away without giving any extra advantage and it only comes into play when you can't see the whole of one of your balls after a foul which isn't too often.

henbane

Originally posted by Lucutus
Free balls are for snooker, not pool, imo. After a foul, you get two shots, more than enough to compenstate for any awkward position.

If you can't see anything to hit, the person who fouled has the advantage whether or not you have two shots.

I reckon it shouldn't be played like snooker rules though, both sides is too generous. Might be a idea to have someone not playing making calls on stuff like this on the day.

tricky D

has to be on the line when you think about it as otherwise there is no back table!!!

Dakeyras

free ball is were a player fouls and you are left snookered, you can choose one of your opponents balls or the black to hit. if your not on the black and you pot it you've lost but you can pot your opponents ball and you continue on. You can also choose to lift the ball and set it behind the line and play on though you cant choose one of your opponents balls to hit when you do this.

Hope that makes some sort of sense.

As for whether we need it Im not too bothered about the free ball rule, either way ill take you all

Being snookered after someone fouls is not something that will tend to happen very often anyway so if some people dont like it we may as well leave it out.

Im also for placing the ball on the line and no back table since we have no D, playing the whole of the behind the line is just a bit too much.

as for the need for the final say, i am more than willing to take up said post.
all donations to Dakeyras refereeing gratefully accepted as are numerous pints bought for which of course will have no effect on quality of decisions made in your favour

whats the opinion on the white ball leaving and returning to the table, hitting your own colour. do you all consider this a foul? because i have a penchant for hitting ridiculous jump shots. They look the bizz when you pull it off, looks disaster when you fuk it up though (which is the outcome most of the time)

Kali

Originally posted by lafortezza
3) usual 8ball rules from there, 2 shots on foul, etc

EPA rules I imagine... "usual" is way too general..
http://www.arseweb.com/rupe/pool/uk_rules.html (the rules on the left)..

oh and jumpshots are illegal... leave it for the dodgy pub tables

Lafortezza

Originally posted by Dakeyras

As for whether we need it Im not too bothered about the free ball rule, either way ill take you all
Being snookered after someone fouls is not something that will tend to happen very often anyway so if some people dont like it we may as well leave it out.

I'd say leave it in personally.

Originally posted by Dakeyras

whats the opinion on the white ball leaving and returning to the table, hitting your own colour. do you all consider this a foul? because i have a penchant for hitting ridiculous jump shots. They look the bizz when you pull it off, looks disaster when you fuk it up though (which is the outcome most of the time)

I'd say no to jump shots, especially if the cost of repairs to ripped cloths are coming out of the prize fund!

henbane

Originally posted by Dakeyras

all donations to Dakeyras refereeing gratefully accepted as are numerous pints bought for which of course will have no effect on quality of decisions made in your favour

whats the opinion on the white ball leaving and returning to the table, hitting your own colour. do you all consider this a foul? because i have a penchant for hitting ridiculous jump shots. They look the bizz when you pull it off, looks disaster when you fuk it up though (which is the outcome most of the time)

Jump shots are quite alright as long as no ball finishes off the table.

Another rule thought - it's a foul if the object ball leaves the table but it is considered to be potted, that's the way I play but I know some people think it should be put back on the table (the spot or summat like that).


I'll buy you a rake of pints if I have to play you

Big Ears

jump shots are only legal in 9-ball.

Makaveli

Originally posted by henbane
Jump shots are quite alright as long as no ball finishes off the table.

Another rule thought - it's a foul if the object ball leaves the table but it is considered to be potted, that's the way I play but I know some people think it should be put back on the table (the spot or summat like that).

Yeah that's the way I play too, although it seems a lot of people respot the ball.

Lafortezza

Looks like rules so far are:
(couple open to debate still)

• No back table because its an American table with a line so you play along the line.
• Shots don't carry
• Potting black off break is win
• Potting the white off the break is a foul, but not penalised if no colours go down; if a colour goes down, its one shot on that, or two on the other colour
• No two shots on black
• Nominate pocket on black for each shot
• Free ball rules apply. If someone fouls and leave you snookered two shots are no use unless you can hit your object ball
• Jump shots are quite alright as long as no ball finishes off the table.
• It's a foul if the object ball leaves the table but it is considered to be potted

Can't think of any more myself, apart from organisation of number of frames in each round, and that kind of thing.

henbane

Originally posted by lafortezza
-It's a foul if the object ball leaves the table but it is considered to be potted

Nitpick - Might want to change that to any ball except the black/cue ball?

Kali

Nominate pocket on black for each shot

aye.. and that alone regarding the black, none of this can't shoot into the other players nominated pocket crap or 3-fouls crap that you sometimes get

The Rooster

Under both the World 8-Ball Pool Federation (WEBPF) and the European and United Kingdom Pool Federation (EUKPF) rules, if an object ball leaves the table it has to be re-spotted on the black spot, or as near as possible to the black spot. It is a foul shot, but if the black leaves the table it is also re-spotted, i.e. its not loss of frame.

(All national and most regional pool touraments in Ireland and the UK use either the WEBPF or EUKPF rules).

Under the Billiard Congress of America 8-Ball rules, balls that leave the table are not re-spotted. However the US rules are fairly alien to us, as they state that you must call every single shot (i.e 6-ball corner pocket, etc.)

Interesting that nobody has questioned the "no two shots on the black" rule that was put forward at the beginning of the thread. Under both the WEBPF and EUKPF rules, you do get two shots on the black following a foul. A heavy penalty maybe, but then again you have no excuse for fouling if your opponent has only the black left. You never get 2 shots after any foul under the US rules, you get "ball in hand" instead.

Lafortezza

Originally posted by The Rooster
Under both the World 8-Ball Pool Federation (WEBPF) and the European and United Kingdom Pool Federation (EUKPF) rules, if an object ball leaves the table it has to be re-spotted on the black spot, or as near as possible to the black spot. It is a foul shot, but if the black leaves the table it is also re-spotted, i.e. its not loss of frame.

I think the Irish way of looking at it is "Ah c'mon hurry up and play, its your round next anyway".
And I think most irish pool players prefer to play that if an object ball leaves the table its considered potted, but opposition player gets 2 shots.

regarding the black, it makes the person on the black a bit more careful when trying to win the frame, knowing that the dreaded 'in off the black' with the white ball means he loses.

Originally posted by The Rooster

Interesting that nobody has questioned the "no two shots on the black" rule that was put forward at the beginning of the thread. Under both the WEBPF and EUKPF rules, you do get two shots on the black following a foul. A heavy penalty maybe, but then again you have no excuse for fouling if your opponent has only the black left. You never get 2 shots after any foul under the US rules, you get "ball in hand" instead.

If the players are good then 2 shots on the black means game over, maybe a bit unfair for the person playing catch-up.

The Rooster

Re the black, its only re-spotted if it leaves the table, i.e. ends up on the floor. If you pot the black, and make a foul in the same shot, then you always lose the rack.

I can see your point with the 2 shots on the black, and I think you are in the majority, but I disagree with it. If you have 3 or 4 balls left and your opponent is on the black, then its practically impossible to be snookered and really there's no excuse for making a foul. And while it should be easy to pot the black when you've two shots, I've seen plenty of people (me included) make a bags of things when trying to "lay-up"!

Also having 2 shots on the black discourages deliberate fouling, which is often prevalent when there is only one shot.

henbane

Originally posted by The Rooster
I can see your point with the 2 shots on the black, and I think you are in the majority, but I disagree with it. If you have 3 or 4 balls left and your opponent is on the black, then its practically impossible to be snookered and really there's no excuse for making a foul. And while it should be easy to pot the black when you've two shots, I've seen plenty of people (me included) make a bags of things when trying to "lay-up"!

Also having 2 shots on the black discourages deliberate fouling, which is often prevalent when there is only one shot.

If you're on the black and you're opponent has 3-4 left you shouldn't need 2 shots unless he is in prime position. Everybody makes a dumbass foul once in a while on a pool table, in-off off two cushions is not something everybody can work out and dodgy kisses here and there can push you in-off too - the black should be a pressure shot. I appreciate that laying-up can be made a mess of, but it really is awful easy to do.

As for deliberate fouling - that's an instant loss, no matter when it happens. In the competition there's gonna have to be a 3rd party at every table prepared to call that. It's rare but I have seen the odd asshole try this sh*t and walk away from the table with a smirk on his face.

Michael Collins

There's a slight problem when you choose to play the "only one shot on black no matter what" rule in combination with "any ball that leaves the table is considered to be potted" because - what if (I know the chances of it happening are very slim but still it's a competition):

Your opponent has one ball left which is in a safe position. You're on the black which is also in a safe position. It's your opponents go. Your opponent hits their ball so hard it goes off the table...

Under the current rules, his ball would be considered to be potted and you'd be left with only one shot on the black which is in a safe position. In which case your opponent has benefited quite a lot from fouling...

I'd say the best way would be to re-spot any ball that goes off the table and keep the one shot on black rule, especially on the smaller sized tables...

Lafortezza

Originally posted by Michael Collins
There's a slight problem when you choose to play the "only one shot on black no matter what" rule in combination with "any ball that leaves the table is considered to be potted" because - what if (I know the chances of it happening are very slim but still it's a competition):

Your opponent has one ball left which is in a safe position. You're on the black which is also in a safe position. It's your opponents go. Your opponent hits their ball so hard it goes off the table...

Under the current rules, his ball would be considered to be potted and you'd be left with only one shot on the black which is in a safe position. In which case your opponent has benefited quite a lot from fouling...

I'd say the best way would be to re-spot any ball that goes off the table and keep the one shot on black rule, especially on the smaller sized tables...

thats a good point, the only thing I'd say to that is that the chances of it happening are very very slim, I don't think I've actually ever seen it happen tbh.

But henbane made a good point about having a 3rd party to call those sort of decisions, we don't want any punchups!

DapperGent

Originally posted by lafortezza
But henbane made a good point about having a 3rd party to call those sort of decisions, we don't want any punchups!

I want punch ups.

Lafortezza

Originally posted by DapperGent
I want punch ups.

you'll have to settle for an ass-kicking instead, 6-3 is a start

DMT

Seeing as it will be played on American pool tables, why not go the whole hog and use American rule?

For instance, if an object is touching a cusion (frozen) it can't be potted and after a foul the cue ball can be placed anywhere on the table....

Other rules recommendations include:

• At least four balls must touch a cushion on the break.
• At least one ball must hit a cushion on each shot if a ball is not potted.
• Potted the black on the break win the frame, whether or not any of the other object balls are potted. If the cue ball and black both are potted on the break the frame is lost.
• On the break, the cue ball must first strike one of the front three balls of the triangle:

O O O O O
 O O O O
  O O O
   [b]O O
    O[/b]

henbane

Originally posted by DMT
Seeing as it will be played on American pool tables, why not go the whole hog and use American rule?

Sweet jesus, NO! We've spent the last week arguing all the niggly little issues to get some normal friendly pool rules rolling - we aint aiming for official, just something everyone is comfortable with.

henbane

Originally posted by Michael Collins
Your opponent has one ball left which is in a safe position. You're on the black which is also in a safe position. It's your opponents go. Your opponent hits their ball so hard it goes off the table...

Under the current rules, his ball would be considered to be potted and you'd be left with only one shot on the black which is in a safe position. In which case your opponent has benefited quite a lot from fouling...

I'd say the best way would be to re-spot any ball that goes off the table and keep the one shot on black rule, especially on the smaller sized tables...

That would be a deliberate foul unless you're playing a total plank (or possibly me on a bad day) and if we really want to cover this likelihood we can always add that in this situation you respot the object ball.

This really is getting to be tough going.

Originally posted by DapperGent
I want punch ups.

I have to agree. Screw setting rules lets just fight it out like men.

Lafortezza

Originally posted by DMT
Seeing as it will be played on American pool tables, why not go the whole hog and use American rule?

I don't think many Irish (casual) pool players even know the American pool rules.

I think so far we have a good mishmash of rules everyone is familiar with and that they play regularly too.

Just waiting on Dakyras to pull his finger out and name a date!

tuxy

you do know that if you dont allow 2 shots on the black the other player can be rewarded for fouling? there are all kinds of safetys that you can play by fouling if your opponent is on the black and only has only one shot if you foul
i dont think fouling should be encuraged
it would probably be best to pick an offical set of rules rather than just making them up

Lafortezza

Originally posted by tuxx
you do know that if you dont allow 2 shots on the black the other player can be rewarded for fouling? there are all kinds of safetys that you can play by fouling if your opponent is on the black and only has only one shot if you foul
i dont think fouling should be encuraged
it would probably be best to pick an offical set of rules rather than just making them up

if its an obvious blatant foul on purpose then you automatically forfeit the frame, thats why I think we should have a 3rd party watching each game to make that call.
And anyway I don't think the tourney will be that serious for people to try to foul intentionally to win, its more pool and pints and bragging rights on here.

tuxy

Originally posted by lafortezza
if its an obvious blatant foul on purpose then you automatically forfeit the frame,

that wasnt stated in the rules i found a flaw in them and you had to make up a rule
i know some people like to make up rules as they play
but i just dont see why its necessary to make up rules when there are offical rules
some how i dont think they are going to just make up rules for the snooker tournament so why make ones up for pool
maybe make a poll and see what the majority thinks?

Big Ears

i agree. there should be 2 shots on the black

DapperGent

Originally posted by tuxx
that wasnt stated in the rules i found a flaw in them and you had to make up a rule

Aren't you great!

Maybe he just thought it was blatantly obvious.

tuxy

Originally posted by DapperGent

Maybe he just thought it was blatantly obvious.

he said "usual 8ball rules"
in epa rules deliberate fouls do not mean a forfit only something realy blatant like moving the balls with your hands will get you disqualified
so how exactly was it obvious? some of the rules he is just pulling out of his ass, im just saying there is no need to make up your own rules when there are already offical rules avilable. no one can disagree over something if offical epa rules are used

DapperGent

Two shots on the black is crap.

No forfeiting for deliberate fouls is crap.

Therefore EPA (whoever the fuck they are) rules are crap.

tuxy

lol epa are the offical rules used in the uk and ireland
well sometimes BAPTO rules are used

DapperGent

Link?

I'd imagine they are designed with television coverage in mind.

Anyone good I've ever palyed against thinks (rightly) that carrying shots, two shots on the black, allowing deliberate fouls etc. are for half-pissed hacks and kids playing pub tables.

tuxy

http://www.arseweb.com/rupe/pool/uk_rules.html

they are used in competitions in the uk and ireland mostly untelevised they are designed so people cant get the upper hand by fouling
whats the name of the rules you play by? can i see a link please
the rules you state sound like made up house rules in alot of pubs

DapperGent

The rules are a bit poxy to be honest they don't punish push shots properly and it's okay to deliberately foul! There's also that dumb stuff about a ball having to touch a cushion after every shot which takes out much of snookering and punishes players who like to try and play deadweight, forcing people to blast everything.

I play by the so-called "Irish" rules as opposed to the "English" rules that appear on the link you placed for the English Pool Association.

The differences being that you only get one shot on the black, shots don't carry and that you can't pick up the cueball and place it where you want after a foul, these all conspire to create a game of pool which isn't decided primarily by fouls and contains a modicum of skill and tactics.

These are hybrid rules (well more like an abscence of poxy rules) but are followed by almost all the people I've ever played pool against in this country.

DMT

How about instead of 2 shots on the black after a foul, allow the player to place the cue ball anywhere on the table like in American pool...? (This would only be allowed on the black)

tuxy

look at the rules by the irish pool association
http://www.irishpoolassociation.ie/wepfrules.htm
they are the same as the epa world rules
so the rules you play by are not irish rules
whats the offical name of the rules you play dapper and can i have a link to them i would like to read them

DMT

Originally posted by DMT
How about instead of 2 shots on the black after a foul, allow the player to place the cue ball anywhere on the table like in American pool...? (This would only be allowed on the black)

Time to go nuts: A modification to the above rule suggestion - the player is allowed to move the cue ball anywhere in the opposite quadrant of the table to that of the black:

-----------------------
|           |           |
|           |      @    |
|           |           |
|           |      ^    |
|           |      |    |
|           |    Black  |
|           |    Ball   |
|           |           |
|           |           |
 -----------------------
|           |           |
|           |           |
|           |           |
|     O     |           |
|           |           |
|     ^     |           |
|     |     |           |
|    Cue    |           |
|    Ball   |           |
|           |           |
 -----------------------

Please note - I am quite mad.....

Makaveli

No, ball in hand should not be implemented imo.
I also think it should stay as one shot on black.

Lafortezza

Originally posted by tuxx
he said "usual 8ball rules"
in epa rules deliberate fouls do not mean a forfit only something realy blatant like moving the balls with your hands will get you disqualified
so how exactly was it obvious? some of the rules he is just pulling out of his ass, im just saying there is no need to make up your own rules when there are already offical rules avilable. no one can disagree over something if offical epa rules are used

The rules will be decided by the majority of opinion or else by Dakeryus who's organising the tourney.
People playing pool in Ireland have a million different rules and most people play for fun with friends than anything else. I don't think the Boards pool will be uber-serious and maybe you shouldn't come if you are going to be quoting EPA rules at everyone instead of having some pints and a good chat.

Why are you being so anal anyway? This thread is just for suggesting rules.

tuxy

i just dont think there is any need to make up rules thats all

DapperGent

Sssh DMT you're making things up - you'll give poor tuxx a hernia.

Originally posted by tuxx
whats the offical name of the rules you play dapper and can i have a link to them i would like to read them

I play by the so-called "Irish" rules

These are hybrid rules (well more like an abscence of poxy rules) but are followed by almost all the people I've ever played pool against in this country.

No link, no association. They just what most people play around the country, well those with any sense anyways.