Monorail system for Airport & Fingal

BendiBus

http://www.onbusiness.ie/2003/1118/vega.html :ninja:

jd

Why a monorail?
surely it would be more flexible to use existing track guage?
jd

drrnwbb

frankly the most ridicilous thing ive read in a long time

In a statement, United Entertainment Partners (UEP) said the proposed Vega City development would cost €7 billion, would employ 40,000 people directly and would deliver 37 million tourists annually, giving €1 billion a year to the Exchequer.

even 3,7million tourists would be a stretch.

dw

dmeehan

this consortium plan to integrate the "monorail" with the (non-existing) metro line to the city centre
:rolleyes:

sounds as likely to happen as a theme park in dublin!

BendiBus

Personally I'd locate it at Limerick Junction TGV station, thereby providing high-speed rail links to Dublin, Cork, Shannon and Waterford airports

Floater

Originally posted by drrnwbb
frankly the most ridicilous thing ive read in a long time


even 3,7million tourists would be a stretch.

dw

If they have the money to spend on monorail why not talk them into coming on board with the integrated system so that people from all over Ireland can get to their park - as well as those arriving at the airport?



Floater

Sarsfield

Las Vegas had 35,071,504 visits in 2002 http://www.reviewjournal.com/lvrj_home/2003/Feb-12-Wed-2003/business/20669909.html

Top attractions in the UK & France.

http://www.asktravelforfun.com/Pages/topattractions.asp

Even Disneyland Paris only managed about 12 million

I guess this will add impetus to the second terminal at Dublin

And maybe another DART extension?

Victor

Aer Rianta had plans about six years ago for a monorail to serve the outlying longstay car park (like JFK in New York).

Originally posted by drrnwbb
In a statement, United Entertainment Partners (UEP) said the proposed Vega City development would cost €7 billion, would employ 40,000 people directly and would deliver 37 million tourists annually, giving €1 billion a year to the Exchequer.

For tourists read shoppers.

Borzoi

Hey if they want to pay for it , let them.

But it occured to me that rather than building " a twin-track mono-rail system running 22km from Dublin Airport to the park", they'd probably be better off building their own airport. Especially if they're going to have 37million visitors a year, which is over twice Dublin ariport's own figures of 15.1 million last year.

Unless of course that this was their plan all along.:rolleyes:

Qadhafi

It seems like all theme parks use mono rails. I dont know what technical advantage they have over other types of rail?

Mono Rail homepage

They are going to link in the 'monorail' with the 'metro' that is never going to be built! They reckon that if they dont get planning permission they are going to look elsewhere in Europe.

Its a MASSIVE development and it does seem unlikely that Fingal County Council will give the green light.

Personally I think they should defintely go ahead with it(its all their own cash:D). As for capacity problems in Dublin airport, they can just add another runway and terminal. Even the private sector would build it.

Although the roads are another story, it looks like the M1 (with the extra lanes) would just look like the M50 now, with all that projected traffic.

shotamoose

Seems like a good idea to me. I mean, building a monorail sure put Ogdenville and North Haverbrook on the map

p

The whole this is most likely a scam to get the land re-zoned in 10 years time & build housing and make a tidy profit.

Hopefully it won't happen.

You should see what the people over at www.irish-architecture.com think. Mostly laughing.

loyatemu

I hear those things are awfully loud!

echomadman

But Main Street's still all cracked and broken...

Aside from this Theme park notion :rolleyes: personally I think there are better things they could be doing with the irish rail network *outside* of dublin.

Why a monorail?
surely it would be more flexible to use existing track guage?
jd

Irish track gauge is different(wider) than most, if not all of the rest of the worlds, so any new bogies have to be either custom made or extensively reworked, Monorails have the advantage of being elevated (usually) so you can get a monorail line through districts and area where conventional raill-lines would cause disruption to traffic etc. tend to be quieter (so cause less disturbance to residential areas)

sligoliner

LOL! This is priceless. I woke up this morning and Ireland has turned into a Simpsons episode. This is uber-Gombeenism at it's worst. I love the whole "we'll feck off te Europe buckos, if ye say no!!" God almighty, this country amazes me sometimes. This is most lilkey a front for massive housing developments or a casino (if god forbid Mickey Mouse does not want to have CJ Haughey for a neighbour). This is so obviously a pile of ****e with a hidden agenda it is almost laughable. The only people who fall for this crap are the unsophisticaed Paddies who are proud that two Irish Billionaires own a chunk of Man Utd c"os' there one of our own" while Irish sports are begging for investment. The monorail part is the best and tells the real story. Fingal Co Council are so right to smash this thing.

As for the rail connection, look up Owen O'Calaghans very interesting connections with CIE down in Cork which ended up being investigated by the government. The other bloke behind this joke built a factory in Wicklow and did not bother to even get planning permission. Yeah, real class acts behind this alright. Diamond Joe O'Quimby's all over the place.

altogether now:

"Is there a chance the track could bend?
Not on your life my Hindu freind
Monorail!
Monorail!
Monorail!"

I am see the Department of Finance singing it right now with Charlie McCreevy and Joe Walsh wearing top hats ad tails....

sligoliner

Irish track gauge is different(wider) than most, if not all of the rest of the worlds, so any new bogies have to be either custom made or extensively reworked, Monorails have the advantage of being elevated (usually) so you can get a monorail line through districts and area where conventional raill-lines would cause disruption to traffic etc. tend to be quieter (so cause less disturbance to residential areas)

So a monorail which is nothing like a train is not a problem, but moving the wheels out a few inches on a standard british of the shelf railway bogie is?

http://www.platform11.org/lease.html


Secondly, Spain, Portugal, Russia, Finland, Indian, Pakistan, Brazil, Argentina and Japan all have non-international track gauge and many European countries like Switerland operate with lots of different gauges, but only in Ireland is this a curse apparently...

Qadhafi

I think they should go ahead with this theme park. Its extra revenue for the Government for a start. They plan to pay for some of the infastructure upgrades which we already need. Even if its a flop and has to be demolished in 10-15 years The construction of the project will be a huge spin off for the country. It will put Ireland on the map for being a tourist destination with more to do that simply looking at countryside.

The only objections I have are that it doesnt look cheap or really ugly. That they put up the cash for infastructure like upgrading the M1, Monorail, interchanges, sewerge works etc. Final C.C. has to ensure all of these things but apart from that there is no reason why it shouldnt go ahead.

Burago

This could be great or it could go terribly wrong. I think some of us should drop the cynicism and have a little vision.;)


What about us brain-dead slobs?

You'll be given cushy jobs...

Victor

Originally posted by echomadman
Irish track gauge is different(wider) than most, if not all of the rest of the worlds, so any new bogies have to be either custom made or extensively reworked, Monorails have the advantage of being elevated (usually) so you can get a monorail line through districts and area where conventional raill-lines would cause disruption to traffic etc. tend to be quieter (so cause less disturbance to residential areas)

Yeah, it might disturb the cows :rolleyes:

Usually you only elevate something to get around (or over!) something, it would be meaningless to do this over a distance of 22km.

http://home.eircom.net/content/unison/national/1985583?view=Eircomnet

Planning clash could sink €7bn theme park
From:The Irish Independent
Wednesday, 19th November, 2003
Treacy Hogan Environment Correspondent

A MASSIVE entertainment centre, intended for a sprawling site north of Dublin, has hit planning difficulties and may be moved elsewhere in Europe.

Backers of the €7bn project say it would be bigger than EuroDisney and would employ 40,000 people.

But they have run into fierce opposition from the local council, which claims the project would be a disaster for the roads and infrastructure.

This led to a warning from the United Entertainment Partners consortium that, if the council rejected the ambitious proposal, they would take it to another site in Europe.

The project is proposed for a 2,500-acre site, twice the size of the Phoenix Park, in North Co Dublin.

The consortium, chaired by Cork property developer Owen O'Callaghan, yesterday revealed new details of what would be Europe's biggest leisure and entertainment centre.

Vega City would have three giant theme parks, 14 hotels, 10,000 to 14,000 apartments and a conference centre seating 10,000.

There is intense speculation that theme park giants such as Universal Studios and Anheuser Busch, which run highly successful operations in the US, may become involved as operators of the sea-world and cartoon-character parks.

There would be 40,000 jobs at the centre and another 25,000 indirectly, with a €1bn tax yield to the Exchequer, according to the developers. They say it would attract 37m tourists annually, even more than EuroDisney.

UEP, which says it is backed by international and Irish investors, also said yesterday it will build the world's longest monorail stretching 25km from Dublin airport to the centre, which could link up with the Government's proposed Metro.

But the plan immediately ran into trouble with Fingal Co Council. It issued a detailed report warning that the viability of the project was "highly questionable" and claiming it might eventually be replaced by massive housing developments.

Branding the massive project "unsustainable", the council planning report predicted "there will be pressure to redevelop these areas for additional residential and commercial developments" if the theme parks don't work out.

The project would also cause serious traffic congestion "and chaos on the national and regional roads networks", senior planning officials warned in a report circulated to councillors.

Worst affected would be the M50 and M1, which would not be able to cope with planned growth, the report said.

Under the Vega City plan, the consortium would pay for two new lanes along the M1. There would also be 10 exits off the M1 connecting to the extra lanes, two new interchanges, and an upgrading of the N1 road with eight access points.

But council planners said the county would not be able to cope with the traffic or the extra demands on the sewerage system. Fingal would lose 3,300 acres of agricultural green belt.

Expressing grave concern over the impact of the project, the council said an extra 30m passengers every year would use up all of the existing and planned capacity at Dublin Airport up to 2020. It would be twice as many passengers as use Gatwick Airport.

The report was carried out by senior council planners David O'Connor, Peter Gillett and Marjorie O'Shee.

A special meeting of the council is being held next Monday to discuss the proposals.

But a spokesperson for the consortium said if it was rejected it would then be brought elsewhere in Europe.

Dublin businessman Louis Maguire, the UEP managing director, told the Irish Independent yesterday: "It is going to happen. We just hope it will happen in Ireland. It's an opportunity for Ireland that should not be lost. We are dealing with 90pc of the 20 top entertainment companies in the world."

According to a detailed statement on the project, there would be three world-famous family theme parks built and operated by US corporations. These would be a "white-knuckle ride" and safari park, a movie and cartoon character-branded park and an aquatic park.

The plan also includes an 18-hole championship golf course, an equestrian centre and an ice rink. There would also be 250 retail outlets supported by 350 cafes, restaurants and bars.

Qadhafi

If the Vega City project does go ahead and they do build that monorail. Its going to mean that all passengers from the city centre having to stop and change at the Airport from the metro to the monorail. Why would they just continue the Metro(on the surface) the 22km?

Victor

Originally posted by Qadhafi
If the Vega City project does go ahead and they do build that monorail. Its going to mean that all passengers from the city centre having to stop and change at the Airport from the metro to the monorail. Why would they just continue the Metro(on the surface) the 22km?

But that would be sensible and un"cool", like you are going to Vega city for the "experience" man!

loyatemu

i like Suzanne Vega as much as the next person, but I'm not sure if she has much "theme park" potential.

echomadman

So a monorail which is nothing like a train is not a problem, but moving the wheels out a few inches on a standard british of the shelf railway bogie

My point was that these things can be bought pre-fabbed, as opposed to a halfarsed re-tooling of an already halfarsed railnetwork

I believe i indicated my disdain for the project as a whole.

Sarsfield

If they expect 37 million visitors, then obviously the vast majority will be flying in.

Why on earth try to build this project on relatively expensive east coast land, near the most congested airport when it would be just as accessible to its customers if it was built beside Knock for example? And would likely face far less opposition (at least in numerical terms)

The new town theory looks quite plausible.

Monorail is a total mickey take. Of course the obvious solution, based on their own reference to it, would be the extension of the metro.

It would appear we are living in trough a real life episode of the Simpsons.

Thankfully, even local councillors can see straight through this nonsense.

Who owns all this land at the moment?

Victor

Originally posted by Sarsfield
If they expect 37 million visitors, then obviously the vast majority will be flying in.

Or driving from Dublin and Belfast.

Originally posted by Sarsfield
Why on earth try to build this project on relatively expensive east coast land, near the most congested airport when it would be just as accessible to its customers if it was built beside Knock for example? And would likely face far less opposition (at least in numerical terms)

Perhaps it doesn't suit their agenda / target audience.

Originally posted by Sarsfield
Who owns all this land at the moment?

Mostly locals, a few farmers and householders.

DMT

Originally posted by sligoliner
This is most lilkey a front for massive housing developments or a casino

Well then it won't get past the planning stage - you can't get planning permission for a theme park and then build houses instead.

If Fingal County Council turn down this project at this early stage it would be the most anally Irish typically-backward decision ever made in this country.

What makes Ireland so special that building a theme park here couldn't work and it can work practically everywhere else?

Qadhafi

I think the theme park is a golden oppurtunity. The developers have to fork out the cash to develop infastruture before it can go ahead but it can only develop Ireland.

There is a lot of local support from people getting generous payements for their land. Also as far as Im aware Florida unlike the other states doesnt pay income tax. now thats a real benefit.

The downside is that it will probably look totally out of place but I think thats a small price to pay.

However this monorail, I had reservations with the Metro but this is just stupid. They should simply build a metro line from the theme park to the airport. Like how many different rail mediums are we going to have on the east coast: Dart, Luas, Metro, regular rail and a monorail! Did they ever hear of adopting international best practice?

Victor

Originally posted by Qadhafi
There is a lot of local support from people getting generous payements for their land. Also as far as Im aware Florida unlike the other states doesnt pay income tax. now thats a real benefit.

I'm not sure how thats a benefit, especially as all Americans also pay federal income tax (you can write off state taxes against your federal income tax bill).

Qadhafi

Hollywood interest inDublin theme park
The Sunday Business Post
23/11/03 00:00
By Neil Callanan
***********************************
The backers of the Vega City theme park planned for north Dublin have had talks with representatives of film studio MGM, theme park specialist Six Flags, 20th Century Fox and its parent, News Corporation, with a view to attracting them to the site.
Universal Entertainment Partners (UEP) also met executives of Busch International, which operates Sea World and Busch Gardens, a safari-style park in Florida.

Universal Studios, which owns several theme parks, is also understood to have shown interest in the scheme.

Developer Owen O'Callaghan, chair man of UEP, would not be drawn on who had signed up for the scheme. But he said a major film com


pany that did not have a base in Europe had approached the company expressing interest in the scheme.

UEP hopes to attract 37 million visitors a year to three theme parks on a 2,500-acre site between Balbriggan and Swords.There will also be golf courses, shopping centres, 14 hotels, a conference centre, an equestrian centre, an ice rink and 10,000 apartments for short-term lets.

Fingal Co Council has said the scheme materially contravenes "government policy, national and regional planning guidelines and the County Development Plan, and would be contrary to the proper planning and sustainable development of Fingal and the greater Dublin area".

O'Callaghan admitted that the local authority planning report was "very negative". The developer said he was "not making it sound easy. It will be extremely difficult to get permission for it and it will be difficult to even get them to accept a planning application for it. It's good for the country, but there's huge problems."

He also said UEP was willing to address the infrastructure issue and would consider funding part of the outer ring motorway if it would help alleviate congestion caused by those visiting the parks.

Victor

That story has been thrashed by one of the other Sunday papers with the American side denying all knowledge (this may be due to confidentiality clauses or overstatements by the developers.).

Qadhafi

Vega City consortium to meet with council

14:46 Monday November 24th 2003
The Irish Independent
*************************************



The consortium behind a proposal to build a €7b theme park in north County Dublin says it needs to sit down with Fingal County Council to discuss the project. United Entertainment Partners wants to develop the Vega City project on a 3,300-acre park in north Dublin. They say 35 million people would visit annually and it would employ up to 40,000 people. But Fingal County Council says the project goes against Government policy, and they would need to see details of it. United Entertainment Partners say at this stage, they are not looking for planning permission or even the right to apply for it. Spokesman Conor Dempsey says all they are looking for is dialogue.