UTV confirmation breaking news

Dr. Nick

Sunday Times, can't find the link, but it's on page 3 of the business section.

Basically, UTV are chompin' at the bit, TV3 are protesting/appealing and Granada have the final say.
As confirmed earlier, pre-Chistmas is the aim of the raiders from the northern counties
Like Tyrone and Armagh before them, let's hope they're succesful.

Merge if required.

eth0_

Could you give us some direct quotes from that article? Sounds like PR fluff possibly...i'm a cynic yes

Tony

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2095-895468,00.html

Tony

DMC

No more that what we really know, but now its in print.

Edit: Beat me to it Tony!

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2095-895468,00.html

TV3 attempts to block UTV move to Sky Digital
Ciaran Hancock

THE Irish television company TV3, which is 45%-owned by Granada in Britain, is trying to block a deal in which UTV would be carried on the Sky Digital platform in the republic.
UTV and BSkyB, the satellite television station in which News International, owner of The Sunday Times, has a 35.4% stake, are believed to have agreed in principle a deal whereby the Belfast station’s output would be available on the digital platform in the republic before Christmas.

This deal is subject to Granada agreeing to sign over to UTV the rights to its top programmes, including Coronation Street, Emmerdale and Heartbeat. Both companies are members of the ITV network.

TV3, however, is understood to be attempting to block this move, as it could pose a significant competitive threat to its advertising income. TV3, which went on air in late 1998, has yet to declare a profit and earlier this year made 13 staff redundant. It also closed its Belfast office a number of months ago.

Granada paid €48m for its stake in TV3 in 2000. It jointly owns the business with private investors and CanWest, the Canadian broadcaster, which also has a 29.9% stake in UTV.

UTV is said to be hopeful that Granada will give it the green light for its move onto the digital platform in the republic.

UTV is carried in about 70% of multi-channel homes in the republic, mostly by NTL and Chorus, the cable companies.

A move onto the Sky platform would give UTV access to the satellite company’s 300,000 digital subscribers. Sky has a 23% share of homes in the country. The Sky platform could boost UTV’s advertising revenues. The company is also likely to receive a small payment per subscriber from Sky.

UTV and Channel 4 are the only two large terrestrial channels in Ireland and Britain not yet available on the Sky Digital network. Sky is understood to be keen to secure deals to boost marketability in urban areas, particularly Dublin where it operates head to head with NTL.

Fascinating!


What was said by many here right along, that TV3 in cahoots with their part owners Granada were responsible for the blocking otf UTV on Sky Digital in ROI *is* true according to this article.

Tv3 have some neck complaining about unfair competition from RTÉ when all along they appear to be applying a double standard in attempting to block competition from ITV.

And in further good news, this will be BAD news for that amatuer out fit Chorus, commonly refered to as Crappus, who will get their rich deserts hopefully for their poor service ie bankruptcy.

mm

byte

Wow, great news! Be interesting to see how it goes from here. It's all in Granada's hands then?:rolleyes:

Dr. Nick

And in further good news, this will be BAD news for that amatuer out fit Chorus, commonly refered to as Crappus, who will get their rich deserts hopefully for their poor service ie bankruptcy.

in the wods of fat tony, it's funny because it's true......

DMC

Originally posted by Man
What was said by many here right along, that TV3 in cahoots with their part owners Granada were responsible for the blocking otf UTV on Sky Digital in ROI *is* true according to this article.

Man, I'm shocked you didn't believe me!

It was in as much Granada's interests as majority shareholder in TV3 as it was in TV3 as a whole, that UTV was off Irish subscribers screens.

Remember, gob****e TV dealers advertising UTV via other channels when the whole ITV network first appeared didn't help matters either.

In another development, Chorus ads no longer promote "great TV channels like UTV and Channel 4" anymore.

And, I forgot to mention it above, Thanks Dr. Nick for alerting us to the article. I confess, I didnt read the business section today!

SEAMUSD

the plan is that UTV will join the sky lineup in Ireland but when TV3 are showing the likes of corrrie and emmerdale these programmes will be replaced by other programmes on UTV because TV3 have now got the rights to these programmes in Ireland no word on chan 4 but i do know that chan 5 are not intersted in broadcasting to the Irish republic.

SEAMUSD

read my reply regarding UTV on an new thrad

Mike 1972

Surely the solution would be to make TV3 available in NI or just to tell TV3 to go and take a running jump

UK viewers can watch any of the 15 odd ITV regions via the "other channels" menu one doesnt hear say UTV crying because viewers might possibly desert them en masse to watch their soaps on ITV Channel Islands ?

DMC

Originally posted by SEAMUSD
the plan is that UTV will join the sky lineup in Ireland but when TV3 are showing the likes of corrrie and emmerdale these programmes will be replaced by other programmes on UTV because TV3 have now got the rights to these programmes in Ireland no word on chan 4 but i do know that chan 5 are not intersted in broadcasting to the Irish republic.

SEAMUSD, dont open new threads when you can so easily reply to the existing threads, which you did anyway.

As for the post, while that is possible, UTV wont want a watered down version on Irish screens. That wont come under starters orders, Rule 4 does not apply.

Originally posted by DMC
Man, I'm shocked you didn't believe me!

Thousands wouldn't

In another development, Chorus ads no longer promote "great TV channels like UTV and Channel 4" anymore.

Yeah, they're concentrating on advertising their phone call rates now...
some day the voice over guys are going to do a deliberate slip up when recording those and say, Eircom don't give you UTV

Incidently and as an aside, their phone advertising gives out the assumption that their great rates are unbeatable, when from my information, most others are the same or better...what a load of chancers they are!!

mm

sceptre

Originally posted by DMC
In another development, Chorus ads no longer promote "great TV channels like UTV and Channel 4" anymore.

Heh, I've noticed that. Mind you the advert page bundled with my new phone book had the channel logos listed for the UK channels with UTV and C4 at the left rather than the BBCs (and it says "a great selection of channels that includes UTV, Channel 4, BBC1 and BBC2" at the top)

I'm sure CanWest want as much exposure as possible in the republic for channels they have a share in (which apart from their part-ownership in TV3 and UTV also means those radio stations they part-own through their share in UTV). Wonder which side of the fence they're sitting on (I'll guess they're on the pro-UTV on Sky side).

What's "rule 4" then?

DMC

Whoops, OT now...

Its a horse racing term, Rule 4 is...

Where a horse is withdrawn before coming under Starter's orders, or is officially deemed by the Starter to have taken no part in the race, stakes will be returned on the withdrawn horse and winning bets will be subject to deductions in accordance with Tattersalls' Rule 4(c).

As this is not horse racing, Rule 4 does not apply.

bishop brennan

Is satman still alive?!
You were right all along man fair play to you!and tony of course.

Charles Slane

It's always kind of interesting when the Sunday Times carries a report on stuff like this, given their involved relationship with Sky.

You get the feeling that there's some kind of gamesmanship going on and maybe the article is some kind of effort to further the process.

Let's hope it does the business this time and we see UTV on the Irish EPG. If that means some kind of deal to provide coverage of TV3 in the North - all the better. Why should we suffer Dunphy and Good Morning Ireland alone !!!!

carrolls

Originally posted by bishop brennan
Is satman still alive?!
You were right all along man fair play to you!and tony of course.

I'm sure he's a bit pissed at the treatment he was dished out.
And probably rightly so.

rcunning03

i'll believe it when im watching utv on sky and not before then, as im sure our government will protect the interests of a corporation (tv3) and not give a second thought to what the consumer wants.

i hope im wrong or that the government wont be able to block it due to some european ruling.

rcunning03

any word on channel 4 coming to sky

dahamsta

Originally posted by Dr. Nick
in the wods of fat tony, it's funny because it's true......

Tsk tsk. Fat Tony would never use a contraction.

adam

ShaneOC

It is nice to finally see something in black and white. Definately a step in the right direction.

We should keep an eye on UTV in other channels to see if it becomes available.

SRB

It'd be interesting if UTV pressed ahead with it's watered down version. Anyone who had the joy of seeing their TV YOU will know what delights are in store. Also if Granada decline the programme rights, I can't really see what would attract people to UTV if it doesn't have popular progs like Corrie, Heartbeat etc.
Given the grief UTV gave Granada over ITV2 in NI on the DTT platform I doubt very much things will be made too easy for them.

Originally posted by SRB
I doubt very much things will be made too easy for them.

Except that Granada have now merged with Carlton, so the same rules might not apply.

mm

SRB

If anything, with Granada having such a vested interest in TV3, it'll be worse !

BrianD

What was said by many here right along, that TV3 in cahoots with their part owners Granada were responsible for the blocking otf UTV on Sky Digital in ROI *is* true according to this article.

You mean you never knew that this was the reason?? TV3 will do eveyrthing in their power to protect their investment in TV rights that they have purchased as a TV station that is licensed, registered and has invested in staff and infrastructure in this market. What exactly did you expect them to do???

Tv3 have some neck complaining about unfair competition from RTÉ when all along they appear to be applying a double standard in attempting to block competition from ITV.

Where is the double standard? TV3's arguement has been the subsidy that RTE receives via the licence fee. This subsidy combined with its commercial revenue is used to compete with TV3 when purchasing programme rights. They are competing in the market with RTE (and UTV) for advertising income. No double standard for trying block UTV of the D-Sat if they haven't purchased the rights to be there!

I do recall - and I am open to correction on this - that there was an active lobby from accross the border to prevent RTE transmitting directly into the North from their Clermont Carn site. At the same time Northern stations were actively seeking carraige on distribution systems in the Republic.

And in further good news, this will be BAD news for that amatuer out fit Chorus, commonly refered to as Crappus, who will get their rich deserts hopefully for their poor service ie bankruptcy.

never subscribed toi Chorus so I can't comment on their service. What is the relevance of this rant to the first two points??

BTW given that Granada has an interest in TV3 and a good deal of TV3's popular programming comes from the ITV network, who cares if UTV is on D-sat or not??

Originally posted by BrianD
You mean you never knew that this was the reason?? TV3 will do eveyrthing in their power to protect their investment in TV rights that they have purchased as a TV station that is licensed, registered and has invested in staff and infrastructure in this market. What exactly did you expect them to do???

I expect them to accept competition from UTV and not behave like a jumped up monopoly.

Where is the double standard? TV3's arguement has been the subsidy that RTE receives via the licence fee. This subsidy combined with its commercial revenue is used to compete with TV3 when purchasing programme rights.

How do you know this?? Have you studied what money is spent where?
Can you tell me exactly what proportion of the licence fee is spent by RTÉ on foreign rights rather than on public service broadcasting of which there is precious little on TV3.

The Double standard is applied where TV3 wants to be a monopoly yet has always bemoaned RTÉ's monopoly of the licence fee.

never subscribed toi Chorus so I can't comment on their service. What is the relevance of this rant to the first two points??

The relevance is, that Chorus provide a very poor cable and mmds service, yet they have been advertising that they have UTV as their only remaining angle against Sky.
That is about to go , and if you actually read the rest of this thread... :rolleyes: you would have seen that fact mentioned, ie that they have recently stopped these adds.

who cares if UTV is on D-sat or not??

A lot of people here do! Do you come here often ? :rolleyes:

mm

BrianD

Man, I do browse these pages on a frequent basis ...not every day. I will disregard your final comment.

Your rant on Chorus has absolutely no relevance to the discussion on whether UTV/Ch4 will be added to the line Sky line up.

It is beyond me how you can even suggest that TV3 are behaving like a "jumped up monopoly". Would you mind taking some time to outline the monopolistic position of TV3 in the Irish market. Where is the evidence that suggests that TV3 wants to be a monopoly - this is so called double standard you refer to? If anything TV3 have bought competition to the Irish market that was previously a monopoly.

Have TV3 used illegal methods to bar UTV from the market? I don't think so. They are simply protecting the commercial rights of the programming that they have purchased.

I have not studied how the monies that RTE collects from TV licence fees and commercial advertising revenue are spent. I have not seen any public document that indicates how the money is spent. Suffice to say that both revenue streams are used to support the entire RTE organisation and infrastructure. Even if commercial revenue was used only to purchase programme rights the licence subsidy supports other vital and costly areas of the organisation.

And please if you are going to quote me please use the entire sentence and not just a section of it! I did not selectively quote you!

Originally posted by BrianD


Your rant on Chorus has absolutely no relevance to the discussion on whether UTV/Ch4 will be added to the line Sky line up.

It's wasn't a rant just a statement of experience
And it is relevant as SKY is a major competitor to Chorus in the Irish market.
Indeed when I ditched Chorus, the operator said " oh please don't tell me you are getting sky..."
The only bullet left for chorus to fire in that market was the fact that they had UTV and channel four.
The fact that Sky are now likely to get UTV onto their platform in the Republic is highly relevant.
Indeed many posters on this forum, have stated in the past that UTV and CH4 were the only reason they remained with Chorus and in some cases NTL.

Where is the evidence that suggests that TV3 wants to be a monopoly - this is so called double standard you refer to?

Thats obvious, they don't want Sky's 300,000 homes in the ROI having access to UTV, depite it being available on cable.According to the article and yourself they appear to be doing everything in their power to stop UTV on sky here.
They dont want them there, because, they might attract even more audiences away from TV3.

Even if commercial revenue was used only to purchase programme rights the licence subsidy supports other vital and costly areas of the organisation.

Exactly and without that,Grannies across the land wouldn't be able to watch their set dancing on a friday evening at 7.30 prime time- come west along the road

mm

West Briton

You know things are bad when this forum gets DigitalSky'ed (TM).

Let's compare and contrast the "identical" TVgee with UTV outside of the big hitters of Corrie, Emmerdale and the Heartbeat Variations.


TVthree tonight:

8.00 Malcolm in the Middle
8.30 Coronation Street
9.00 Bad Girls
10.00 Law and Order: Special Victims Unit
10.55 News
11.25 Eircom League Weekly
12.05 Dark Skies
1.00 Travel Bug
1.30-3.30 Music

UTV tonight:

8.00 Tonight with Trevor McDonald
8.30 Coronation Street
9.00 Between the sheets
10.00 ITV News at Ten with UTV live News
10.30 The Frank Skinner Show
11.25 Film: Eddie
1.05 Champions League Weekly
1.30 Football League Extra
2.10 Today with Des and Mel
3.00 Now and Again
3.45 Entertainment Now
4.15 Tonight with Trevor McDonald
4.40 ITV Nightscreen
5.30 - 6.00 ITV Morning News

I had Crapus for years in Celbridge,where I had a sickener of a **** system that went down for days at a time over Christmas. I haven't looked back since I ditched them in 2001.

Screw anyone trying to deny consumer choice. You will be made to take notice if you keep your fingers in your ears.

Satman

Is satman still alive?!
You were right all along man fair play to you!and tony of course.

Originally posted by carrolls
I'm sure he's a bit pissed at the treatment he was dished out.
And probably rightly so.

Satman is alive and well , thanks for asking , however , a little bit reluctant to post any news in this dictatorship . Who knows , the person/s who were responsible for closing my thread may yet admit their mistake .

"The only way is up!"

bishop brennan

YEEEEE HAWWWW!!!!!!

Mossy Monk

Originally posted by Satman
dictatorship

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

channelsurfer

dont mean to critise you brianD but i think your been too easy on tv3 they are a very poor outfit who dont deliver good quality home produced programmes only agenda and dunphy cos they thought they would make a fast buck against kenny . it they welcome competition then they would allow utv to come on and live on the strenght of their home produced programmes. methinks they are moaning too much and should get on with providing a decent service.

carrolls

Originally posted by Satman
[dictatorship . Who knows , the person/s who were responsible for closing my thread may yet admit their mistake . [/B]

Shush!!! You could be banned for saying something like that here. (He said nervously).:D

DMC

Originally posted by Satman
Satman is alive and well , thanks for asking , however , a little bit reluctant to post any news in this dictatorship . Who knows , the person/s who were responsible for closing my thread may yet admit their mistake .

TBH. Reason enough.

No mistake.

Yours in totalitarianism,

DMC. :rolleyes:

SRB

Programming costs money - income comes from advertising - you can't have it both ways. Ireland isn't big enough for two commercial TV stations showing similar programmes, chasing the same clients. If Granada want to develop TV3 into "ITV Ireland" (for want of a better label) they sure as hell won't want UTV getting there first. As for TV3's output the channel is actually not that bad.

Tony

Originally posted by Charles Slane
It's always kind of interesting when the Sunday Times carries a report on stuff like this, given their involved relationship with Sky.

You get the feeling that there's some kind of gamesmanship going on and maybe the article is some kind of effort to further the process.

I think there is a lot of merit in your point of view Charles. What I wonder though is how running this story can further progress the issue if it boils down to programming rights, perhaps restraint of trade legislation is the way it will go.

Tony

watty

The rights and Granada support for TV3 shouln't be a problem as near 80% get UTV already...

For Chorus and NTL it is the penultimate nail in coffin. (C4 would be the last one.

Any guestimates for FTV cards in use, making the % on UTV higher than the "offical" figures?

I don't think UTV/ITV is as good as 20 years ago. TV3 has a bit to go to be as good as TG4 if you ignore the imported soaps.

I'd say at Breakfast TV, TV3 has the highest percentage? It is their best program (nearly only home produced program!)

BrianD

With all due respect I am waiting for you to address the issues that I raised particulary in relation to the unsupported arguement that you have in stating TV3 have been trying to maintain a monopoly. We still wait with bated breath! You say it;s obvious but you have yet to support your arguement!!!

Your response to the issue about who RTE spends its licence fee (in effect a public subsidy) is nothing short of nonsense. Please re-read my post!! The license subsidy is not only used by RTE to commission the type of programming that you referred to but also supports other areas such as marketing, studio facilities etc. etc. These are facilities that TV3 can not afford and its quite possible RTE could not afford without the licence fee income.

Channelsurfer - it is not my intention to be "easy" on TV3 - I think it is weak station. It is largely irrelevant to this arguement. The quality of programming from RTE, TV3 and UTV is another debate in itself.Man has made some ourageous statements in relation to TV3 that he is yet to support!

DaithiSurfer

You know i thought i'ld miss UTV when i got SKY. Several friends thought the same before they got SKY. A lot more won't get sky because it doesnt have utv and ch4.
But to be honest, i don't miss UTV one bit since i got sky over 2 years ago now, and neither does anyone else i know who changed to sky.

DMC

I think what Man is getting at, Brian D (guessing) is that TV3 just want the advertising cake to themselves, and begrudge UTV its overspill, i.e. have a monopoly on domestic advertising. It is in TV3's interest that UTV stay off Sky, because the only way to watch the likes of Corrie in the Republic on Sky is via TV3 at present.

TBH, TV3 hates competition more than RTÉ ever has.

Tony_ire

TV3 should be on Sky in the north.

Ozzie

just for the record I miss UTV since changing to Sky from Chorus. I even considered reconnecting to Chorus... then I woke up!!!

It'd be great to have it back and also of course C4!

Originally posted by BrianD

Your response to the issue about who RTE spends its licence fee (in effect a public subsidy) is nothing short of nonsense.

I pointed out that at 7.30 on a friday evening prime time RTÉ one shows come west along the Road

Now tell me how much advertising does it forego by doing that as opposed to showing a blockbuster film??
Would it be able to make such a public service decision were it not for the licence fee-I think not!! And into the bargain Grannies across the land get to enjoy their set dancing instead of Arnie Swartzeneger.

With all due respect I am waiting for you to address the issues that I raised particulary in relation to the unsupported arguement that you have in stating TV3 have been trying to maintain a monopoly.

But you have told me and the article quoted above, that they don't want UTV in another 300,000 homes yet they are perfectly happy to have UTV on NTL.
Now whats the difference between NTL customers and Sky customers.
Absolutely nothing in the sense that they are both consumers.

The crucial thing though is that TV3 do not want UTV to be provided to the extra 300,000 homes and thats a restrictive practice symtomatic of a monopoly.
thats why I accuse them of behaving like a jumped up monopoly.
Of course I've already pointed that out to you, and you choose to ignore it.

mm

SRB

The difference is RIGHTS - it's a bit like asking why can Sky show Harry Potter movies in the UK but the BBC can't yet.
Different rights are agreed for different platforms. Ireland is unique in that it "sold it's subscription tv soul" if you like to a UK based broadcaster SKY. The channels on cable are under a different agreement to the channels on SKY. Dutch cable has carried BBC1 and BBC2 for as long as the Irish cable companies have, but they don't appear in the Dutch Sat package for the same reason, different deals different formats. Although the BBC channels are free to air - the Irish EPG carries BBC1 and 2 NI because of a rights deal with BBC Northern Ireland, Sky and BBC Worldwide.

The channels on cable are under a different agreement to the channels on SKY.

I'm aware of that.
UTV would have to be negotiating fees with Sky to cover that situation in the same way as they did with NTL.
The issue though is , whether TV3 have the right to attempt to throw spanners in the works by kicking up a benign fuss ( benign in the sense that they are wasting their time ).

RTÉ don't with the BBC there, yet they share a lot of programmes/movies.

mm

BrianD

Man

The Double standard is applied where TV3 wants to be a monopoly yet has always bemoaned RTÉ's monopoly of the licence fee.

You still have not supported this statement! The core reasons why TV3 bemoan RTe's monopoly of the licence fee is that licence fee subsidises RTE's operations in the TV sector where it competes with TV3 and other stations for a slice of the advertising cake. Yes, the licence fee is used to commission programming that is unattractive to advertisers but ultimately it forms part of RTE's overall income that funds all of RTE's media activities. In "activities" I refer to not just to what you and I see on the telly but people and equipment resources all of which are crucial to successful television operations. Many of these resources are dual purpose being used to fulfil RTE's public service remit and for purely commercial activities. The licence fee supports RTE television right accroos the board. TV3 can not compete with this.


The fact that TV3 "is blocking" UTV from the Sky Digital platform is not indicative of monopalistic behaviour. They are simply protecting the rights to programming that they have purchased. Would you expect them to behave differently? It's business! If UTV want to show their programming via the D-sat delivery method let them buy the rights to do so! I have read your posts and I am not ignoring anything you have written but you still have not backed up your accusation of TV3 "acting like a jumped up monopoly" (BTW if anybody knows about monopolies ask UTV ... )

Originally posted by BrianD
Man


You still have not supported this statement!

I have stated that they want to keep UTV out, that information is in the public domain. UTV are going onto the Sky platform in ROI if they agree similar terms to their being on NTL and Chorus and only then.
You are ignoring what I said regarding why TV3 do not want UTV on Sky, it's simply they do not want the competition in those extra 300,000 homes for fear of losing advertising.
Thats behaviour symtomatic of a monopoly or a duopoly.

The core reasons why TV3 bemoan RTe's monopoly of the licence fee is that licence fee subsidises RTE's operations in the TV sector where it competes with TV3 and other stations for a slice of the advertising cake.

But you have conceded that you cannot prove this as you have no access to how RTÉ spends it's money.
I have given you a good example though of where they have foregone the potential of lucrative advertising at 7.30 primetime on a friday evening by showing come west along the road for the old folk.
They could show a block buster movie at that time, the fact that they don't is down solely to the fact that they have a licence fee which subsidises that kind of public service.

mm

SRB

UTV would have to be negotiating fees with Sky to cover that situation in the same way as they did with NTL.

Why ? Sky have nothing what-so-ever to do with individual programme rights, that's between the owner and the broadcaster.

As I said, the cable situation is very different from DSat, mostly for Historic reasons, ie, for years no money was paid to either BBC or UTV and then a deal was struck. This isn't the case with Dsat.

Originally posted by SRB
UTV would have to be negotiating fees with Sky to cover that situation in the same way as they did with NTL.

Why ? Sky have nothing what-so-ever to do with individual programme rights, that's between the owner and the broadcaster.

As I said, the cable situation is very different from DSat, mostly for Historic reasons, ie, for years no money was paid to either BBC or UTV and then a deal was struck. This isn't the case with Dsat.

NTL and chorus have to pay the BBC and UTV for the right to re-broadcast their channells on the NTL and chorus platforms, that is how the rights issues are covered.
A similar agreement would have to be worked out with Sky to pay for them also.
Legally the precedent has already been set whereby a channell from another country is paid by a platform operator to cover the cost of providing a channels output to a new country ie the Republic of Ireland in this case.

Sky digital also have already for a number of years as you know had a similar agreement in place with BBC world which has placed BBC1 and 2 NI on Sky digital screens in ROI.

Thats how it works.

mm