advice pleeze

D!ve^Bomb!

hello people,, i'm wantin to join the city west gym,, now, i want to loose weight but!! i also want to bulk up quite alot, infact i wanna bulk a hell of a lot,,, i'm 6ft 4 and 21stone, should i focus on loosin weight and gainin physical fitness first with cyclin etc and then go on to enhance the muscles, or should i just head straight for the weights.. and how long would it be before i notice an improvement if i were to go three times a week, maybe more?.. plus, should i take protein supplements even tho i'm huge already.. thanx for ur time people

dudara

Lifting weights is a great way to lose weight initially. The fat will be replaced by muscle, which burns more energy even when resting. You won't need protein shakes to start with, as your initial muscle gain will be quite quick. It's only as your body begins to get used to training that you might need the extra boost. But always remember to eat some protein (ie tuna/chicken sandwich) within 30 minutes of a weights workout. It helps repair and rebuild the muscle.

Looking at your stats, you are quite heavy for your size, and since Irish males are prone to every disease under the sun, it's in your best interests to be healthy now, so as to stand some chance for later life. My boyfriend and I both lift weights. He's 6"2', but weighs 14 1/2 stone. He lost 2 stone when he went back into serious training, so I can only imagine how much you will lose.

It's always good to have some form of fitness exercise as well. So aim to include running, cycling or something as well. I also like to do my running after weights, I just find it easier. It's up to you entirely. I also pratice taekwon do, so I consider that a cardio session of sorts.

Check out the google weights thread

Google misc.fitness.weights

any question that you might have has probably already been answered there.

Also check out Krista Smash . I know it's written by a woman, but she really knows her stuff.

logic1

Originally posted by newband
hello people,, i'm wantin to join the city west gym,, now, i want to loose weight but!! i also want to bulk up quite alot, infact i wanna bulk a hell of a lot,,, i'm 6ft 4 and 21stone, should i focus on loosin weight and gainin physical fitness first with cyclin etc and then go on to enhance the muscles, or should i just head straight for the weights.. and how long would it be before i notice an improvement if i were to go three times a week, maybe more?.. plus, should i take protein supplements even tho i'm huge already.. thanx for ur time people

Have you had any bodyfat % measurments done? How much weight would you like to loose?

21 stone is quite heavy for a guy of your size if it isn't mostly muscle mass.

In your situation I'd do a 3 weights and 2 cardio sessions a week. For cardio try rowing or cycling. Running would place too much stress on the joints at that kind of weight.

What's your diet like?

As for protein supplements if you're getting enough protein from foods then you won't need to supplement, but if you find you're loosing out on protein during the day then by all means take a supplement.

If you clean up your diet, train hard and get enough rest you should notice a large difference within the first 8 weeks, after that weight loss will slow but you should loose weight every week for quite some time.

.logic.

eth0_

Originally posted by dudara
Lifting weights is a great way to lose weight initially.

What? Building muscle if you're overweight will just make you look even bigger. I would have said lay off the weights until you're losing weight through good diet and cardio exercise...

D!ve^Bomb!

hi, thanx for ur replies,, i used to live on take aways and i never ate breakfast and was addicted to cola(2-4ltrs/day), but i cut ALL that out couple of weeks ago, i start eatin healthy and regular, i.e,, cereal and fruit for breakfast, more fruit and some other healthy **** for lunch, and a usually chicken for dinner, any other snacks would mainly consist of fruit, i've started goin for walks, only bout 30min walks(i know this will have to increase) and i'm startin to go to city west gym from thurs onwards, hopefully 3-5 times weekly, since a couple of weeks ago my girlfriend has said i have noticably lost weight, and believe it or not i feel better already, but there's a long way to go, i'd like to get down to 18stone, then maybe start on weight trainin, i dont just wanna loose weight, i wanna improve my physique.. i agree bout running, i dont think my knees are up to that at the moment as i am too heavy and feel the heavyness when i run,, so i think cycling etc is the best bet... so have i been doin everythin right so far?..

thanks for takin the time to reply,, appreciate it!

dudara

What? Building muscle if you're overweight will just make you look even bigger.

As I said in the post, muscle replaces fat, and the new muslce will burn more fat, so it's a win-win situation. But it's not the only thing I would do, I would also go for a cardio routine as well to continue the weight loss.

Newband: Keep it up. By changing your diet, you were just using common sense, something a lot of people seem to forget they have. Keep up the exercise and let us know how you get on.

D!ve^Bomb!

how long do ya's reckon it'll take me to loose bout 3 stone, if i was to work out 3 times a week and keep a healthy diet, and after that is done, how long after startin weight will i be able to see a difference in my physique.. thanx

logic1

Originally posted by newband
how long do ya's reckon it'll take me to loose bout 3 stone, if i was to work out 3 times a week and keep a healthy diet, and after that is done, how long after startin weight will i be able to see a difference in my physique.. thanx

I think you're coming at this with the wrong attitude. I was much like you at the start, loose some weight as quick as possible then return to my old lifestyle. It doesn't wrok like that

It's a time consuming process and it's forever ongoing. It will really be a total lifestyle change for you and that change has to become permanent.

Reasonably you can look to loose 2lbs per week. If you're building muscle at the same time this loss might not be so apparent on the scales but it will show in your demeanour.

You do have to remember though it's a lifetime commitment, you have plentyt ime so try not to rush things. No crash dieting, no fad diets, slow steady progress.

.logic.

D!ve^Bomb!

i think everybody wants to do it quickly and painless, i know its a lifestyle change and i'm all for it... i'd just like to set myself goals, ie, down to 18stone within 6 months... its gonna be damn hard!! for instance, i know when i go to the gym on thurs that i'm gonna be in bits, i'd love to say i'm gonna get on the bike and do five miles at a constant pace but the fact of the matter is, i probably won't be able to do half that and will probably feel like pukin when finished,,, so i'm prepared to hit that head on and overcome it within time.. and when i've left the gym and on my way home i'll probably feel great cos i did somethin that i never done, and be happy with the fact that in due time i will be in fantastic physical condition,, thants my incentive:)

Pmc

dudara, I think it's wrong to go around saying that muscle "replaces" fat. It's quite possible (even more likely in a lot of cases) to build muscle while retaining the fat percentage. Fat isn't magically converted into muscle by lifting. Fat is burned by cardio, muscle is built using proteins available to the body. I know that this is a very simplistic way to look at it but to suggest that muscle replaces fat is even more simplistic (and wrong). You're right though to say that having more muscle mass will use energy and therefore burn fat in conjunction with a calorie controlled diet (I hate that term )
newband, you don't have to kill yourself with cardio at any stage to burn fat. In fact, going longer and at a slow and steady pace is actually thought to burn more fat than going flat out.
The best advice I could give is to do a routine that you enjoy - the progression will then come naturally.

logic1

Originally posted by Pmc
dudara, I think it's wrong to go around saying that muscle "replaces" fat. It's quite possible (even more likely in a lot of cases) to build muscle while retaining the fat percentage.

Well this is a bit of a moot point. While technically muscle anabolism and fat catabolism are effectively impossible to occur simultaenously they can occur within short intervals of each other. If he's going from a state of very little physical exercise which it seems he is to a state of higher exertion and energy output in a muscle building atmosphere it is not only highly likely but most probable that he will build a certain amount of muscle and loose fat in conjunction with one another.

If he's on a calorie restricted diet obviously protein synthesis and muscle anabolism will not be substantial but he should rapidly loose fat.

If his diet is not calorie restricted to below maintenance levels and he is getting enough protein he should enter an anabolic state and also loose fatty tissue weight. It is highly unlikely that you will build muscle and retain all of your bf% even if your total weight stays the same or increases.

Fat isn't magically converted into muscle by lifting. Fat is burned by cardio, muscle is built using proteins available to the body. I know that this is a very simplistic way to look at it but to suggest that muscle replaces fat is even more simplistic (and wrong).

Nobody suggested fat can be converted to muscle. It was put forward that fatty tissue will be catabolised and muscle anabolised. This is altogether correct.

You're right though to say that having more muscle mass will use energy and therefore burn fat in conjunction with a calorie controlled diet (I hate that term )

Why do you hate that term? Weight loss or gain is totally dependant on calorific intake with regards to basal metabolic rates. I think it's quite a good term

newband, you don't have to kill yourself with cardio at any stage to burn fat. In fact, going longer and at a slow and steady pace is actually thought to burn more fat than going flat out.
The best advice I could give is to do a routine that you enjoy - the progression will then come naturally.

Well there is quite an on going debate with regards long/ medium activity cardio compared to HIIT or Fartlek cardio. But in this case I would agree with 2 or 3 sessions of medium intensity cardio for 45 to 60 minutes. 65 to 75% of max heart rate.

Personally I like HIIT and feel it is more effective at fat burning not just during the exercise but throughout the rest of the day.

.logic.

Pmc

Absolutely, but dudara suggested that muscle replaces fat - which simply isn't true. I just don't want newband to get the idea that a lot of people seem to have that doing sit-ups will cut the fat off your belly.
I don't like the term 'calorie controlled diet' because I think it's overused. Every 'lower fat' pre-prepared ready-meal can make you slimmer as part of a 'calorie controlled diet'. So can standing on your head. Just one of those things that annoys me

logic1

Originally posted by Pmc
Absolutely, but dudara suggested that muscle replaces fat - which simply isn't true. I just don't want newband to get the idea that a lot of people seem to have that doing sit-ups will cut the fat off your belly.

lol very true

I don't like the term 'calorie controlled diet' because I think it's overused. Every 'lower fat' pre-prepared ready-meal can make you slimmer as part of a 'calorie controlled diet'. So can standing on your head. Just one of those things that annoys me

Haha point taken

.logic.

MrHappy

Hi,

Im also starting the same as this, but IM only about 2 stone overweight..... Im not fit, but can still run/jog for 10 mins on a treadmill...

Im 5'7 and about 13 and a bit stone.... and have a stocky build.

I want to basically get fit and tone up a bit.

What do I do???

I have looked at all of the advise on the fitness part of this board, and there's sooo much I dont know where to start. I was thinking of running/rowing machine (which I like) and then doing weights.... but would that be right? What weights... i.e. what type of excercises....

Any info would be great.

logic1

Originally posted by MrHappy
Hi,

Im also starting the same as this, but IM only about 2 stone overweight..... Im not fit, but can still run/jog for 10 mins on a treadmill...

Im 5'7 and about 13 and a bit stone.... and have a stocky build.

I want to basically get fit and tone up a bit.

What do I do???

I have looked at all of the advise on the fitness part of this board, and there's sooo much I dont know where to start. I was thinking of running/rowing machine (which I like) and then doing weights.... but would that be right? What weights... i.e. what type of excercises....

Any info would be great.

Heya Mate,

Glad you've decided to get into things. If you're main aim is to loose weight then as above I'd recommend 3 sessions of cardio a week of 45 to 60 minutes duration at medium intensity. If you can fit in one or two weights sessions aswell then go for it but don't push yourself too hard at the start or you will give up.

Again I'd stay away from running if you have any joint pains or problems. Do rower, stepper or cycling.

Main thing about loosing weight is diet. Eat small healthy meals and eat often up to 6 times a day. A meal can simply consist of a protein shake, this is an extreme example but say a piece of fruit etc.. is considered a small meal. It just helps keep your metabolism ticking over between main meals.

What I would seriously recommend is for everyone going on a diet to find their basal metabolic rate. This is the amount of calories you burn at rest.

The way I usually go about this is keep a diary and write down every single item you eat for two weeks. If you make it a habit it becomes second nature then after two weeks step on the scales and see if you've lost weight, gaines wegith or stayed the same weight. If you stayed the same weight then divide the amount of calories you ate in the two weeks by 2 to find your weekly maintenance calorific level.

You then need to eat 500 or so kcals below this level per week and couple it with physical training. This will soon see the weight dropping off.

Obviously if you lost or gained weight during the two weeks you need to adjust your calorie intake accordingly.

You can find plenty of calorie calculators online but the point is if the amount of calories you expend in any given week is more than the amount of calories it takes to maintain your weight then you will loose weight. Do not go on a starvation or fad diet as these will eat into muscle mass and always try to keep the protein intake high and just cut back on carboyhydrates.

.logic.

MrHappy

Sounds Good I will do that! When you say 6 meals.... for example, Breakfast, Lunch, Dinner, Supper, and then two snacks in between of Fruit of something like that???

Would it be possible to do 1 hours cardio, and then some weights on 3 days per week (Cardio & weights on the same night)?? or is it better to do just cardio and weights a different day (weights on the day in between the cardio sessions).

Thanks again!

D!ve^Bomb!

at the moment i'm not paying much attention to calory intake, just tryin to stick to low fat, carb foods, prefferably high protein, last night i looked the bread packet,, i couldn't believe how muccarbs were in ONE slice, almost 19g's,,, wots the daily recommened amount for different things,, i know for men u should stay below 95g's of fat, 7g's of salt etc,, wot bout carbs, and calories,, from most of the foods i eat they dont say how many calories are initn the packets, or i dont see it,, how do i know how many calories are in my food...

instead of drinkin coke, i've turned to drinkin LOW fat milk, should i orget bout this and just drink water?

thanks

tunney

All foods(bar unpackaged ones like apples, spuds and the like) give their calorie content in terms on units(eg one packet, one serving) and per 100gs. The average male is recommended to take in 2000-2500 calories per day. Its calories not fat content that dicates how much weight you lose or gain.

I suggest that you stop worring abuot protein levels because at the every beginning of your training you won't need the increased amounts.

Just to reiterate other peoples points at 21st you have to make a long term lifestyle change. Do you want to spend many hours of the week/day in the gym, or out running/swimming/cycling? Can you see yourself keeping this up for life? Can you see yourself cutting down what you eat and chaning what you eat for life? Are you willing to commit to a healthy lifestyle and be different from everyone else? If not there isn't really a point in making a half arsed 2 month attempt at getting fit jsut to return to your old ways and tell everyone how "that fitness lark is a load of bull"

D!ve^Bomb!

i don't agree with cutting out everything bad,, everybody has to treat themselves every now and then,,, i'm not trainin myself for the olympics,, i have cut down everythin of wot i eat and it hasn't been a problem so far, although its not always easy as i dont really have a say on wot food is bought every week,, at the weekend i might want to have ONE chocolate bar, i dont see anythin wrong with that, maybe i'll treat my self and have two(i dont plan on doin this yet but i wont feel guilty when i do do it).. as for everythin else, i dont drink AT ALL, and i dont smoke anythin.. anyway, lifes little pleasures make life more pleasurable;)

tunney

Yip, I'm sure that you know best.

D!ve^Bomb!

i sure as hell no wots best for me,, u mean to tell me since u started ''workin out'' that u have never had a chocolate bar, never had a pint, never put sugar on your cornflakes or drank full milk,, if u or anybody else say no to these then ur all liars..

tunney

Nope I have had chocolate bars, full fat milk and a few pints. The difference is that up until I got injured I was struggling to keep my weight UP. Now I'm not training seriously(only 100miles cycling and a few miles running each week) my weight has stablised at 12st. I'm not the one trying to lose weight, and if you really did know what was best for you..... well I'll just leave it at that.

D!ve^Bomb!

well i dont like full milk, i dont like cornflakes, i dont drink and i haven't had chocolate in weeks, if i was gonna be trainin once a week and still eatin chocolate i would understand, but i'm gonna be trainin 4 times a week so one bar every few weeks wont hurt me, and if it does, its worth the extra effort to work it off