Q3, UT ?????

McGuire

Most online reviews, etc, seem to be in favour of Unreal Tournament, Quake from what we've mostly seen in the test & read is the same tired old weapons, shotgun, yawn, bfg, yawn, machine gun, yawn. you get the idea. Id hasn't got a good reputation for AI either (look at q1 & q2), Id's strong points are A. Netcode, B. The Quake name. Quake 3 can be crap but it'll still be the best selling game of the year.
Unreal Tournament has a lot of stigma to deal with, i.e. Unreal. Everyone will think hmmmmmmm, bad netcode, lack of d3d/opengl support out of box, skinny player models, paper thin looking weapons. Good AI.
In UT we see this wil all be fixed pretty much, weapons look nice & chunky & seem more lethal, AI is pretty amazing, improved over Unreal, levels are supposedly great, DM Morpheus probably being the best one in the demo. Netcode is great, a lot stabler, its very rare to get over 400, even on a full server.
BUT at the end of it all, they are 2 different games, Q3 will feature a truely new game engine, undoubtedly the most advanced netcode in a game, & of course all the quake fanatics around the world, it'll sell by the truckload.
UT has a far smaller dedicated "community" who will no doubt buy it, everyone else will need to be taught that it is NOT unreal.
From everything we've seen & read its fair to say for now that UT is the better game, but we all know that Quake 3 will sell a lot more.

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gandalf

Hmmm I don't think that alot of the Quake players are limiting themselves to Q3a. Infact I believe that quite a few will play UT ahead of Q3a. I am a oldschool Quake1 player, I mainly played Quake CTF when I started. CTF in UT recaptures the spirit of those "good old days" and I believe that because of this UT will be a bigger hit that Q3a.

Q3a is going to fail ultimately because Carmack is not listening to his "customers" ie us. He wants to make it more realistic, why, its a game we all want to escape from real-life when we're playing it. It looks like that lads in Epic are listening to what people wanted with UT.

Thats my tuppence,

Gandalf.

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[This message has been edited by gandalf (edited 28-09-99).]

TwoShedsJackson

From what I've seen so far, UT kicks Q3a around the place. Better playability, better weapons, plays better over the net. plus the extra modes such as Assault (that train level is so cool!! ), enhance it further.

It even plays ok on Whitewashman's connection which is an utter pile of $hite. mind you, when you do lag, its the mother of all lag, you can be hanging there for bout thirty seconds, which is really inconvenient if it happens as you jump between two of the buildings on Morpheus

ButcherOfNog

i sorta agree/disagree

comparing the AI in UT to q1 or q2 is a bit much, like the AI in q2 was quite good for its day, lets remember we're talking ancient history in games terms. I'd be surprised if the AI of the bots in q3 wasn't as good at UT.

q3 plays much better on a low spec pc, and thats a simple fact, even at the test stage its at. my below min q3t spec pc runs fine, and i'm reasonable competitive in q3t, but on ut its above min spec but runs like a dog. i'm not competitive in ut due to this, theres little i can do against good players apart from die alot.

none of the current ut demo levels are of a decent standard. i enjoy playing it, but the levels in the demo really take from it.

i'm intending to play both ut & q3t. however i think q3 will end up the more popular online game, there is a certain "feel" to it that ut doesn't have.

having said that i'm playing lots and lots of UT ctf

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shank

Q3test plays better then the UT demo on low spec machines *Are you mad sir*, I've got both on my second puter (p200 MMX, 64mb, V2). Q3test is more or less unplayable whereas UT isn't far off from how it plays on my other puter (PII 450, 128mb, V3)with the detail toned down a tad. Maybe it's that UT can utilize the 3dfx card to a better degree.

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earthworm_jim

I reckon they'll both be good games and both worth playing.

I think the 2 games run roughly the same if you turn everything off in Q3t and get the latest drivers. Anyway the fps will be better in q3t next version - techies/nerds see Carmack's .plan for details.

Kali

i think we'll still see Q1/Q3 levels being ported to UT regardless of the mods

ButcherOfNog

no sah, i am not mad. q3t tweaked up to its *****runs nicely on my p233 mmx 40m ram, v2 12m. ut however has v poor fps with everything on the lowest setting. tis like playing in treacle.

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Bunny

Mcquire said :

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Most online reviews, etc, seem to be in favour of Unreal Tournament, Quake from what we've mostly seen in the test & read is the same tired old weapons, shotgun, yawn, bfg, yawn, machine gun, yawn. you get the idea. Id hasn't got a good reputation for AI either (look at q1 & q2), Id's strong points are A. Netcode, B. The Quake name. Quake 3 can be crap but it'll still be the best selling game of the year.
Unreal Tournament has a lot of stigma to deal with, i.e. Unreal. Everyone will think hmmmmmmm, bad netcode, lack of d3d/opengl support out of box, skinny player models, paper thin looking weapons. Good AI.
In UT we see this wil all be fixed pretty much, weapons look nice & chunky & seem more lethal, AI is pretty amazing, improved over Unreal, levels are supposedly great, DM Morpheus probably being the best one in the demo. Netcode is great, a lot stabler, its very rare to get over 400, even on a full server.
BUT at the end of it all, they are 2 different games, Q3 will feature a truely new game engine, undoubtedly the most advanced netcode in a game, & of course all the quake fanatics around the world, it'll sell by the truckload.
UT has a far smaller dedicated "community" who will no doubt buy it, everyone else will need to be taught that it is NOT unreal.
From everything we've seen & read its fair to say for now that UT is the better game, but we all know that Quake 3 will sell a lot more.

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Thats your opinion, players will not be buying Q3 and UT based on magazine reviews, they'll be buying them because they've played them and have developed their own personal preference as opposed to one of some fat magazine schmuck somewhere. I'd also like to remind you that Q3 is just a test....I wouldnt like the test of q1 to be compared to the virtually finished q2.

FutureQuakeDood

I dunno what youre all going on about, pack of loopers. I've had the QUAKE and the UNREAL for months now and I play both all the time. Sometimes for internet, sometimes for in my own spare time e.g. unreal for now and quake for internet with buddies. As far as which one is better I'd have to say that Unreal is better for my spare time and Quake is better for the internet and fun with me buddies (Tony and Pete from Roscommon, maybe you know them - nicks : Overkill(Tony) JediNight(Pete)). Also, sometimes I think maybe Quake is good for the CTF but I'm unable to access the Unreal CTF that 'gandalf' speaks of... where is the Flag in Unreal? Near the castle at the start or in the dungeons later on? All in all I think you're all overreacting and maybe you should just play both and stop being loopers?

Ja ma nata gay,
FutuDood.

gandalf

FQD we're talking about Unreal Tournament the multiplayer enhanced version of Unreal. Its a big download but well worth it. Check out www.qamex.com they have a link to the download.

Gandalf.

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Bunny

Ahh its down in the dungeon, past the water bit with the stairs..shoot the wall at the lantern thing just underneath the stairs. Q3 ctf is crap though, theres no flags or bases or anything..i mean **** ME, WHAT A ****TY ****ING GAME MATE. FUUUCK MEE

FutureQuakeDood

In a extract from your site I clearly illustrate you're crap, as follows:

"...these reviews are my own opinions you may have different views on some of the films etc. so I accept no responsibility if you buy a DVD I think is the dogs bollix and you think is pants."

You said 'Bullworth' was "Pathetic." and "Total crap." where as I thought it was pants i.e brilliant (like most pants). You obviously thought it was the dogs bollix(whats a 'bollix'?) i.e. crap like most dogs 'bollix?' (what? i.e. explain). Also, where is Unreal CTF like I explained earlier (i.e. where to find it) castle or later on in the dungeons... is the castle actually on qamex? I couldn't find it on your site.. all I could see was DVD on digital T.V. screens (i.e. rap scene from TLC - No Scrubs in the charts for awhile there now with their new hit Unpretty). Could you DCC it to me or maybe an e-mail would suffice? IRC.IOL.IE anyway I guess from last time, is that right, Chaos?

Confused,
Futu.

FutureQuakeDood

Bunny,

Did you write the Unreal manual?

Futu.

Shinji

One more reference to fat magazine schmucks, Dave, and I'm going to hunt you down with a big stick

Remember as well that while us lot will play both games and make a decision based on that, your average Joe Public can't do that - because he doesn't have access to warez, has no inclination to shell out 70 quid buying both games, and because the majority of game buyers actually trust magazine reviews (god knows why!).

We're not exactly a representative sample of the gaming masses.

Ja,
Rob-the-fat-magazine-schmuck

Bunny

Yah Shinj,
but how do you review q3 vs UT?? thats what I cant understand.. how can you honestly say to Joe Public which game is better? I mean you are gonna have to give each game a percentage, which one gets highest? its comes down to gameplay and thats personal preferences....see my point yet?

by the way I am not referring to games in general, just these two.

amp

Uhhh has anybody mentioned that Q3:A is still an alpha test release yet? And that UT is almost out of the gate? It's too early to make comparisons folks.

Anyway, I'll be getting both. Cos I like both.

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Bunny

yeah I did
read up

Shinji

Dave, you could just as easily say that for reviewing any game. However, when it comes to something like UT vs. Q3, we have to be a little more careful, cos its a sensitive issue for a lot of people.

Reviews of UT and Q3 have to compare the two against each other. We've found a few things about UT over Q3 so far - and yes, I recognise that Q3 is still only in test, although some of us have played a more recent and complete version while under NDA, so the comparison isn't all that unfair.

I'm doing the stories on UT and Q3 for G4, and while you lot all know that I prefer UT as a game, and personally I think Q3 sucks donkeys, that can't come through in the reviews. I drooled all over UT in the review... when the time comes to review Q3, I will cast it in a positive light (it's a damned good game, just not to my tastes) but I will berate it for lack of originality. Ultimately, I've taken into account things that all sorts of people have said - from you lot arguing over the games (always a great source for magazine writing), to comments from people at ECTS, through to joe soaps who don't really play FPS looking at the two games and commenting.

It's a delicate balancing act, and you're always gonna **** some people off. But at the end of the day, there's a difference between Rise of the Robots and Soul Calibur in quality, and there's also one between Quake3 and UT. All games are not created equal...

Ja,
Rob

earthworm_jim

Shinji,

It's a bit hard on Id to slate Q3 for lack of originality. The idea of Q3 is to be the last definitive 3D multiplayer FPS in the traditional Id style. I think it should have been even less original - imo they should just have re-done QW in the new Q3 engine and added a load of new levels. As it is me and my mates still really enjoy the test version (UT's cool too but we play more Q3t). After this game Id are reportedly going to leave the DM arena bahind and move on to other "original" game ideas.

Anyway which game is better really is a matter of opinion, so reviewing them objectively must be a tough job. Good luck with it - just don't assign bloody percentages!!

There's a good article on the second last build of Q3 here:

http://www.stomped.com/articles/q3a/

McGuire

Still annoying though, Quake 3 has a nice enough engine 9ok very nice) but it doesn't show it off much, other than a few gratuitus effects/shows. Are we not a bit bored of another lava filled dungeon ?

Bunny

You won't read this kind of stuff in any magazine review...hits the mark:

From www.challenge-au.com (Tues 28th Sep)

"I cant think of anything that Q3 has over UT - maybe some curves...but they seem unable to use the curves in any good way. I think Carmack should have let Zoid decide everything in q3... I mean, Zoid knew how to make qw the BEST, but carmack .... he sucks. ID should just make game engines - they lack the talent to produce any good games. Instead of doing what epic did and listening to all peoples comments, he is just so far up his own ass that he probably doesnt even know UT has been released. I have never seen such a bad game before until q3.
The wet noodle shaft in q3 is so frustrating, that alone makes q3 suck, it is a waste of time. Instead of compensating the power of the shaft with a powerful rl, they made the rl **** in Q3, I fear grenade launcher will also be **** in q3.

The players dont move when u hit em, so no bouncy kills. Spawning with the machinegun .. gah, no need for armor, u get killed by machinegunners anyway, and the armor countdown sucks also. The 2-jump limit argh! Carmacks quote 'you wouldnt see arnie doing those jumps in one of his films' like wtf? since when has arnie been rocket jumping in his films? or going through teleporters? or using jump pads?. The GFX sucks so much in q3, it looks like a 4 year olds game, no atmosphere. Carmack is a rocketlauncher type of guy, so maybe he has got some problems with hitting jumping targets, the only cool wep in q3 is the railgun.. but the sniper in UT or the shock rifle is better HEADSHOT! , also the shock rifle bounces the people around. Plasma in q3.. what a joke.. its like 200damage/sec? It is the main problem in Q3, also their item layout says to me 'i have no idea what im doing' - plasma next to quad on test1 - WTF"

Comments by good players.

Then why do I still like Q3...strange eh. Also UT isn't as original as people make it out to be, alot of these people don't seem to have played DukeNukem or ROTT or any of the Quake Mods...original doesn't mean its been done before.

TwoShedsJackson

I gots to agree with that second quote that Bunny has there. The reason I prefer UT so fair is cos its so much more FUN. Of course UT isnt orginal but what the hell is these days?? 'Double Kill, Great Kill, MOOOOONNNNSSSTTTEERRRR KIIIILLLLLL!!!!!' mmmmmmmm

McGuire

"ID should just make game engines - they lack the talent to produce any good games"
I completely agree. Id software make excellent game engines, but to be blunt have no idea how to truely use them. The people who license the engines usually do though.

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Koopa

i just played the unreal tournament demo, its cool!
if people stop playing quakeworld totally, ill definitely play unreal tournament

the LIGHTNING-WEAPON and the MACHINE-GUN are excellent , even the MISSILE-THROWER is good

it reminds me of QUAKE DEATH-MATCH before we got really good at it



[This message has been edited by Koopa (edited 30-09-99).]

Coyler

Yeah it is pretty good but i find even my modest system (433celery,64ram,TNT) is just about able to play it at the lower resolutions in D3D. Seem to slow down a lot when there are five bots in level.
Anyone else notice?

Koopa

im on a 433 p2 , 128ram, and tnt2 and it plays fine

i run it at 800*600, with everything else (detail levels) turned down

Sonic

jaysus , im on a p11 416 with a tnt and 200 megs of ram , 640 * 480 in gl with everthing turned down and it slick and smooth

Koopa

i hope they switch the alternate-fire and primary-fire for the LASER-DEVICE

Koopa

also they should remove the CRAAAZYY-CATAPULT-WEAPON, its too powerful


[This message has been edited by Koopa (edited 29-09-99).]

DEATH

jaysus after just downloading the 55mb one it runs like bubbles legging it after the ice cream van, Chunky And Slow.

300mhz 64ram tnt.

the glide version ran better with the unified driver. :

Coyler

yeah im down to 400*300 and its not bad but its still has a bad case of the jitters.Maybe hav eto wait for the newer drivers to utilize DX7

DEATH

the open gl mode works better for me than the D3D its something to do with the tnt loading the textures twice or something.

Driver update should sort it but for the moment the ogl werks better

Hecate

Personal opinion: UT is the most innovative fps game I've seen in quite some time. Q3 will have a lot to live up to.

Reality: Q3 will outsell UT, its a simple fact of numbers. Quake has a larger fan base and there is a certain stigma attached to Unreal as regards netplay.

As you can see its all about names. People think; wow quake, it must be good.

Unreal?, oh isnt that meant to be really laggy?.

This is a real shame, its kind of like the old VHS/Betamax debate about 20 odd years ago. The better format lost out because the public were convinced that an inferior product was gods gift.

Gyck

I just had a quick look on my work PC (PII 300, 64mb, 4mb Mystique, NT4, yep, my PCs that old) and was most impressed. Looking forward to checking it out at home in OpenGL. Bots play well, nice weapons. Can't decide on Q3 v UT until I play it a bit, though I've kinda gone off Q3 for the last week or two.

Still, nice change, and it's not anything like the original.

Predator

MY GOD
DID we not have this kinda discussion over q1 q2 ? which one was better ffs, ppl forget about it, play the one u like the most and get a life and stop posting please.
G.