Eircom moron on TodayFM now 11AM Sun 02 Nov

ColinM

I'm just listening to some plonker on Today FM right now "explaining" what broadband is.

Tune in now!!

Will discuss later.

ColinM

I think it was a repeat of an interview from an edition of The Last Word from during the week.

The interviewee's name was David McRedmond I think. He was Commerical Director of Eircom. I hope I haven't missed a thread about this already. Did anyone record this? Can anyone post an mp3 of it? You have to hear this interview.

This guy sounded like a total idiot. I have never heard someone say "em" and "eeerm" so much when speaking - ever.

Here was the opening question from the interviewer:
"We are hearing more about broadband now, and I have often heard the term DSL being used. What exactly are we talking about here?"

Response:
"Well -erm- , it's -erm, em- the -erm- way -erm- that -erm- is -erm, em - used to -erm- access -erm- telecom -erm, em, em - ... networks."

This guy sounded like a marketing gimp to me. He got a little more fluid when the interviewer kindly steered the course of the (obviously pre-prepared) discussion towards pricing and future expansion plans. The guy sounded like he was reading from the Eircom "corporate vision" newsletter at one point, and yet he still managed to sound like he was simultaneously lying and unsure of what he was talking about.

Of course there was all the usual bumpf (outright lies) about Eircom being one of the cheapest in Europe for broadband and that Eircom are spending loads of money on advertising it because they desperately want everyone in Ireland to have it.

It was a fascinating listen.

De Rebel

Originally posted by ColinM
I'm just listening to some (word removed in light of Mod's edit) ..............

Thats highly offensive and certainly leaves me not wanting to read any of the rest of your post

vibe666

Originally posted by ColinM
Of course there was all the usual bumpf (outright lies) about Eircom being one of the cheapest in Europe for broadband and that Eircom are spending loads of money on advertising it because they desperately want everyone in Ireland to have it.

how can they be one of the cheapest in Europe when they are the single most exensive BB provider in Europe? they are even being investigated for the high price of broadband as we speak. shame its not russia in the 70-80's, peopple like that were taken to red square and shot in the head in front of everyone.

mike65

I taped the interview and will try and post an mp3 later..

Mike.

ColinM

Nice one, Mike. Looking forward to hearing it again!

ColinM

Originally posted by De Rebel
Thats highly offensive and certainly leaves me not wanting to read any of the rest of your post

Good for you! But what about my use of the word "moron"? Don't you think you ought to stick up for any of those who may be offended also?

Ba$tard

That would be great Mike, cheers!

Amazing how many people are awake on a Sunday morning on boards.ie

sceptre

Post edited. Any problems with that PM me.

In other words, do not start a discussion on it here, you'll only look even worse in the end than you do now

Heard the interview it was on the sunday business show on Today Fm.

Unchallenged things said by the Eircom guy included:

We are the second cheapest in Europe...
There are 1000 a week signing up to Eircom broadband ( possibly true?? )

He was asked how much Broadband cost and mentioned Eircoms prices but didn't mention that they are the more expensive option.

Unfortunately this is the kind of radio interview that I do not like, in that it came across as free advertising and gave the impression that you only get BB with Eircom.
A very unprofessional unresearched interview really.
Strange considering you'd imagine that the average audience to that show didn't need the Sesame street approach to the interview considering they deal with many technical Business and Economy discussions :rolleyes:

mm

mrblack

My suggestion for the business Card of Mr McRedmond

David "Comical Davy" McRedmond
Commercial Director - Eircom

De Rebel

Originally posted by ColinM
Good for you! But what about my use of the word "moron"? Don't you think you ought to stick up for any of those who may be offended also?

I note Sceptre's request that we do not go off thread, but there is an important point here about how we conduct discussions.

There is a world of difference between attacking "Ericom" the company, and an individual, identifiable human being who happens to be doing his job, presumably to the best of his ability.

To refer to eircom, the company, as moronic is your privilage.

To refer to an identifiable individual as a moron is, in my opinion, unfair and inappropriate. But thats only my opinion.

To use the word you originally used in the first post is downright unaceptable. Thats why I objected to that and nothing else.


We want eircom to engage here. We need eircom to engage here. We know that eircom lurk here. We have even seen useful and very welcome contributions from eircom empolyees from time to time. Calling them names does not advance the cause and just encourages them to stay away. Attackin them on the merits of the case and on the weakensses of their products/services is the way to go.

ColinM

Good point there, De Rebel.

I still think the man is a clumsy and inept representative for Eircom. Maybe that's the intention though.

Oh, and obviously, that's my opinion. I wouldn't be saying it if it wasn't. I'd say it to David's face and I'd say he'd have to admit it was true if he is a truthful kind of person.

mike65

lo-fi stream - http://www.electronicscene.com/tracks/1608/8797/1/0/1/FutureMusicCorp_-_Eircom_Interview_p.m3u

mp3 download - http://www.electronicscene.com/tracks/1608/8797/1/1/0/FutureMusicCorp_-_Eircom_Interview.mp3

Its 7 mins long I missed the opening min as I did'nt know the interview was coming...!

Spot the unintentional joke at the end....

Amazing how many people are awake on a Sunday morning on boards.ie

Very true nothing gets past us!

Mike.

Hannibal_12

I would actually have to say that the interview as a whole was very good. The host does challenge the Eircom rep on a number of issues and seems to have put a concerted effort into researching the topic.
The Eircom rep however came out with some hypocrticial spurious garbage that made me feel nauseous.
2nd cheapest in Europe with respect to the cost of living, well of course that may be true, but when the cost of living is exorbitant to the extreme that point falls apart quite quickly.
He did his level best to portray Eircom as the pioneers of broadband struggling against all adversity to bring it to its customers, whom it values so much, pure fiction but then again thats his job.

Knob

Knob, read your PMs.

Winters

I heard the interview on the radio this mornign at work. I hid down in the Deli to hear it shouting at customers that asked me to make them a roll

I took offence to the fact that the Eircom dude failed to mention one thing about the CAP. Also that the DSL offering in ireland is of poor quality, over capped and overly expensive when compared to the same option in europe. Its a pity the interviewer didnt mention the cap and how pityfully small it actucully is

He did seem to make Eircom out to be the good side in the Broadband war claming about how cheap out DSL offering is in relation to "europe" [I wish i know where in europe DSL was as 'cheap' as Ireland, Greece possibly?] and also that EIRCOM have invested all this money in DSL and hoe EIRCOM will not be making profits and so on and so forth.

I was ready to kick the radio after the interview

iwb

I saw him at the TIF conference and thought he acquitted himself fairly well. I have yet to hear an Eircom person speak publicly and not make me somewhat cross. They do have a way of twisting things to sound better than they are. I have to say it is impressive though.
ColinM, I don't know what word you used but I don't agree with having a go at any of these guys. The company is fair game, but not an individual, as was stated earlier. I know you are a decent individual having met you so I would assume you didn't really mean anything by it.
iwb.

MadsL

>>@ Mike

WHY are there porn popups and spyware installs on that link????

mike65

Eh? electronicscene.com has never, in the two or three years I've been there as a member or browser, thrown a pop-up at me...

Mike.

ColinM

Hey IWB, I'm going to have a good think about whether I still think I'm right and I'll sleep on it too. If I think I'm wrong I won't mind admitting it, and I'll see if I can't apologise in that case.

At the moment though, I have just re-listened to the start of the interview where David McRedmond is "explaining" what broadband is. I'm glad Mike got that bit because I don't know how you could listen to that and the number of times he goes "ehhh, eerrm, ehhh..." and tell me you think he sounds like he knows what he's talking about.

Listen to it yourself and see what you think.

As for expressing opinions about people who represent Eircom, rather than Eircom the entity, well Eircom is comprised of these people - these people are Eircom. He is the Commercial Director of Eircom, after all. It's like how can you separate the dancer from the dance - you know?

Again, I'll have a think on this though and sleep on it and see if I still think I'm right tomorrow.

David, if you are reading this - you know yourself you would rather have done better at least in the beginning of the interview.

Madsl - I don't know what you mean about the popups - those links Mike gave just point directly to files. I've downloaded the mp3 file at least, and that certainly works.

Calibos

I posted a thread about a piece in one of the Sunday papers last week. Dermot Aherne threatening Eircom with further ultimatums and regulations if they didn't increase BB availabilty and decrease Price. It was this guy Redmond who responded in the article with the same twaddle. He would be a moron if he believed what he was saying but we all know that he knows its twaddle too. If he's guilty of anything its not being a moron but merely selling his soul to the corporate devil, lying his face off and conciously misleading the public all for a pay cheque.

PS. You didn't use the R word colin did you? Never use that word as I've learnt to my cost in the past!

ColinM

The R word? I'm trying to think what that could be. I can only think of one right now but that wouldn't seem to fit the context.

Anyway, the word I used means literally clumsy and inept in its vernacular context according to dictionary.com, but there are other medical connotations to it.

De Rebel

Yea the guy was nervous in the first few minutes. Big swinging mickie. He's a marketing head. In my experience they are almost always nervous of technology subjects, and with good reason. One little faux pax, one wrong term, and whooooosh, the sanctimonious tech savvy among us rush to demonstrate our prolific knowledge and descend to wolf them and call them morons and make them feel like fools.

The guy has a job to do: Market his employer's company. And frankly he did an ok job and handled some tricky questions. I certainly didn't find anything moronic about his performance. I don’t accept a lot of what he said. But he certainly wasn’t moronic.

Eircom is a private company. As a private company, like every private company, it has one objective - to maximise shareholder returns. EVERYTHING else is incidental. They do NOT exist to supply you or me with services, to provide the best service in the world, to provide the cheapest service in the world. They exist to make profits for their shareholders. Period.

We, the citizens of Ireland, through our elected representatives, made it so. Eircom was a company owned by the Irish people, with a public service remit to invest in telecommunications infrastructure on our behalf and provide the telecommunications services that we so richly deserve. No longer is it so. WE sold eircom. Probably the most stupid decision ever made by an Irish Government (acting on our behalf).And that’s saying something. And WE didn't put in place any of the necessary safeguards to ensure that the privatised monopoly would do anything other than use its every asset to maximise value for its new shareholders. We handed them a cash cow with no effective controls whatsoever.

I have posted on many occasions about the damage being done to the economy on a daily basis by the lack of action on broadband and other telecommunications issues. Eircom are not the problem. The problem is first and foremost a political one. Thankfully we now have a politician who recognises that and is doing something about it. Eircom certainly are part of the solution. Just how we solve the whole mess still remains to be seen. IOFFL is one of a small number of bodies which has a real understanding of the issues and an impartial view. Through diligent lobbying and a lot of hard work, a small number of IOFFL people are achieving the necessary change in thinking at the top. IOFFL has been well received by the DCMNR and the Oireachtas Committee in the last 12 months, and the realisation is finally hitting home to Government - this is a big issue for Ireland Inc and only the Government can sort it out. And a lot of that change in thinking is due to IOFFL’s hard work.

If you want to influence the development of telecommunications products in this country, go meet your local politicians and make them understand why it is such a critical issue for the country.

That’s the reality - deal with it. And quit the name calling - it achieves nothing positive, and unfortunately undermines IOFFL’s ability to be taken seriously.

Littletinyman

<Littletinyman, take a month's holiday for being insulting to another poster. As a mod, I'd have hoped you were bigger than this. PM me when your time is up if you want back in - sceptre>

zynaps

Jaysus lads, enough with the flogging of the name-calling issue. Stuff was said, a slap on the wrist was given.
No need to jump on the bandwagon and destroy the thread.

I was quite offended by the fact that eircom got away with pushing such a load of rubbish out on the air - I do feel the interviewer could have done a lot more research; I doubt it would take long to dig up figures beforehand that would have completely destroyed the "among the cheapest prices in Europe" rubbish, and the profitability of the ADSL rollout.

Maybe the interview needed a devil's advocate (ie, someone from irelandoffline, or someone from an ISP you could honestly consider is competing with eircom - ie. anyone but esat).

Ahh well. It was an interesting listen anyway.

zynaps

bk

Originally posted by zynaps

Maybe the interview needed a devil's advocate (ie, someone from irelandoffline, or someone from an ISP you could honestly consider is competing with eircom - ie. anyone but esat).

Yes, the interview did require a devils advocate.

We in IOFFL are always more then happy to play devils advocate on any talk show.

However we have found over the last 12 months that Eircom refuse to appear on the same show as an IOFFL representative. I can only assume that the reason for this is that we have the information to show that the various claims Eircom make are inaccurate at best and that they can't "spin" their way through a show when an IOFFL person plays devils advocate.

ColinM

Right, I've slept on it and I don't get the overall feeling that I'm wrong in saying what I've said.

Are we are allowed to criticise Eircom, but not high profile individuals within Eircom? Is Phil Nolan fair game? I know he has been in the past. If so, then why aren't members of his board of directors? The CEO and the board of directors are Eircom for chrissake!

Two things that are very old hat by now:

1) Eircom habitually make false and misleading statements to the media who accept them without challenge.

2) Eircom representatives do not show up to interviews where they are not the only interviewee.

This has been going on for so long now that it's just become normal and almost acceptable. I know I'm certainly becoming complacent.

You know the old Goebbels/Lenin quote "A lie told often enough becomes the truth." It seems that's what's happening here.

Fallschirmjager

as i persue my ongoing drive for democracy...why doesnt everyone listen to the kindly loaded mp3 and make their own mind up...i have...

i am not too sure i agree with the comment that he is a guy doing a job..so is everyone else in eircom, the issue becomes one of leadership i think and he is a Director as i recall. i would recommend that he not appear on radio if he is not prepared. i think the whole thing just smacks of the whole problem, doesnt it?..its all a little shoddy and haphazard and i think this chap is a symptom. i not too sure i would call him a moron, in fact i would not, but he has certainly shown a few classical symptoms,by not preparing.

and i would tend to agree Colin's last post in that, they are repeating their 'truth' in the hope that it becomes 'factoid'.


still -- thats just my opinion...

SkepticOne

I listened through the mp3, and I don't think McRedmond is a moron in any way. There was a certain amount of hesitation particularly at the beginning but he managed to put Eircom's message across extremely well, imo.

The fact that I and others on this forum disagree with him is beside the point. He was able to state (correctly or incorrectly) that Eircom were rolling out broadband at a huge rate, that they were among the cheapest in Europe, and that broadband is selling very well (1,000 per week). This is the message the casual listener would recieve.

The question is what the response should be to this sort of thing in the future. It will certainly come up again and again.

What I would suggest is that if an MP3 is available, that the various points be distilled out of it and corrected on this forum. Then emails be sent in with the various corrections.

Note that he cleverly qualified a lot of his statements. For example the 45 euros was repeated a couple of times just to get it to sink in, then he qualified this with with the 'pre VAT'. On another occasion, also while discussing the price of DSL relative to other european countries, he qualifies this with 'relative to cost of living' or some such. In this way, he avoids telling outright lies. In responding, we would need to take this into consideration pointing out that while perhaps not factually incorrect, it is nevertheless highly misleading. Obviously outright lies, where they occur, need to be pointed out.

I can understand the need to vent anger too, but it is so much better if this is combined with action to remedy the situation. Otherwise, the whole thing just repeats itself.

dahamsta

Since Eircom refuse to talk to the media in the presence of IrelandOffline (and others as far as I can see), perhaps it would be a good idea to create a strategy to deal with appearances quickly and effectively. That is, something like:

- Ask IrelandOffline members (via newsletter) to notify the committee and membership about appearances.
- Write (and release) a press release immediately after appearance, while details are still fresh.
- Post press release and contact details on IrelandOffline forum immediately so members can refute directly (direct action).

Style of fing.

Oh, and I wouldn't call yerman a moron. Sellout, asshole, lying sack of sh1t maybe, but not a moron. His mammy must be so proud.

adam

Peace

He came across as a bit inept at the start, certainly didn't convince me that he knew what dsl is.. However he did fine on the rest of the interview and side stepped a lot of tough questions for eircom. Also managed to create the concept that eircom were fighting the good fight and need the irish people to band together behind them and purchase their dsl product. He was very much throwing out the idea of us against them and were here for you guys....we're on your side.

I know its all crap and the stuff he was saying about eircom being one of the cheapest broadband suppliers in europe just can't be anywhere near true. Sometime somewhere there will be an interview where and eircom rep is asked some difficult questions and it should be in a forum where they can't squirm away with dishonest and misleading answers.....what a day that would be.

shinzon

Just listened to this interview, i had to psych myself up first due to the fact i might have thrown a bit of a wobbly when i heard this but anyhoo

Well Eircom certainly know how to spin a Yarn ill give them that, ive never heard so many blatant out and out lies about broadband in my entire life, this interview gives completely the wrong impression about BB in ireland

1) Always on Access - Sure you can leave your machine on all day, True we got caps but we aint gonna tell ya about them til ye sign up for it

2) Tis like friaco really - friaco is 150 hours with the eircom yo yos and 180 for the rest, now that really got my goat up

3) The government are putting fibre rings around major towns and thats a complete duplication of the network, sheesh if Eircons network was upto scratch in the first place thered be no need for the fibre network at all. DEAR GOD

i wont even touch on the pricing as thats been done to death, how much longer do the irish people have to put up with the blatant lies of Eircom

Shin

spongebob

Originally posted by De Rebel
Probably the most stupid decision ever made by an Irish Government (acting on our behalf).And that’s saying something. And WE didn't put in place any of the necessary safeguards to ensure that the privatised monopoly would do anything other than use its every asset to maximise value for its new shareholders. We handed them a cash cow with no effective controls whatsoever.

I thought that the "cash cow with no effective controls" was a swipe at a certain Regulatory Body , lucky I read the whole post again from start to finish , phew !

I hope nobody compares me to a bovine when I apply for my commissionership , ye've been warned

M

Ripwave

Originally posted by SkepticOne
Note that he cleverly qualified a lot of his statements. For example the 45 euros was repeated a couple of times just to get it to sink in, then he qualified this with with the 'pre VAT'.

Given that he was explicitly talking about a residential product at that point, that counts as an outright lie in my book, not just a clever misdirection.

"On that point, what would it cost, let's say someone listening out there, seperate to the cost to businesses, because it's obviously of use to them as well, somebody sitting at home, they're thinking about getting this, how much is it going to cost them?"
waffle about DSL, avoiding the question, how DSL allows you to deliver broadband over existing wires and how eircom are "very keen on that." (No ****, sherlock!))
...
"What would it cost?"
"Well, it would cost you about €45 a month, now we have a promotion at the moment that says you can get it at €35 a month, that's pre VAT, so you're talking about, roughly about €45 a month".

McRedmond then goes on to talk about the fact that people are getting broadband because their children expect it.

(Note that there isn't any mention of a €35/month service on eircoms residential website).

jbkenn

This might sound a bit ridiculous, but, what if IOFFL prepared as set of pertinent Q&A's for distribution to the various media as a rebuttal to the continual waffle from Eircom. for instance

Rollout - 10 zillion lines enabled ? well where are they

Line Failure - ? well their your lines why dont you fix them

2nd cheapest in Europe - ? relative to what

etc.


jbkenn

Urban Weigl

Originally posted by jbkenn
2nd cheapest in Europe - ? relative to what

Perhaps he meant second most expensive in Europe (next to Greece possibly)?

SkepticOne

Originally posted by Ripwave
"On that point, what would it cost, let's say someone listening out there, seperate to the cost to businesses, because it's obviously of use to them as well, somebody sitting at home, they're thinking about getting this, how much is it going to cost them?"
waffle about DSL, avoiding the question, how DSL allows you to deliver broadband over existing wires and how eircom are "very keen on that." (No ****, sherlock!))
...
"What would it cost?"
"Well, it would cost you about €45 a month, now we have a promotion at the moment that says you can get it at €35 a month, that's pre VAT, so you're talking about, roughly about €45 a month".

The above could certainly be construed as lies and I would not argue with someone saying that. What I wanted to stress was the fact that Eircom conciously qualify their statements. So, for example, 45 euros is highly misleading, but 45 euros Ex VAT is technically correct.

Therefore, if people want to respond to what McRedmond is saying, they need to look very closely at what is being said (as you have done) pointing out exactly how they have been lying. Otherwise, Eircom will prepare a written statement refuting the the accusation that they are liars. Moreover, they will come out the winners in the overall exchange.

Personally, I would use the phrase 'highly misleading' (giving reasons) as Eircom have less of a comeback with this.

This is the main problem (no offence to the original poster) with 'Eircom moron...' title of the thread. Eircom's ability to twist words should never be underestimated. We should have been getting down to the specifics straight away.

De Rebel

Originally posted by Muck
I thought that the "cash cow with no effective controls" was a swipe at a certain Regulatory Body , lucky I read the whole post again from start to finish , phew !

Ha Ha. It was "a swipe at a certain Regulatory Body". Well the "no effective controls" bit was anyway. I'm far too much of a gentleman to refer to any of the commissioners as a "cash cow" Well not before the sort out their pensions anyway.....

De Rebel

Originally posted by SkepticOne
We should have been getting down to the specifics straight away.

Mike, do you always have to be right about things!

I accept part of the responsibility for the distraction, but the (since removed) word in the first post got to me.

I also believe that in order to be credible, we must be professional. Thats was the thrust of my subsequent posts.

Anyway, Adam's suggestion of a "rapid reaction force" to tackle eircom's misleading statements and exageration is a very good one. Especially if as seems likely they are moving into marketing overdrive. I'm not sure how it would work, but there is among the committee the talent if not the availibility to run off a short snappy rebuff whenever eircom is given a platform. Its something we should seriously consider.

dahamsta

Rapid Reaction Force, I like it.

Seriously, I think it's a very important issue that does need to be tackled with some urgency. As you suggest, Eircom has flipped to xDSL now and there's no going back -- they have to sell it like sh1t off a stick if they're going to see a return on their investment. I support fair trade so I'm not going to get in their way of selling it as long it actually is fair trade. Unfortunately though, this isn't, it's misrepresentation that's very very close to outright lies.

Implementing an "RRF" can be done very simply and very efficiently because there is a defined set of untruths and misrepresentations: Write once, run anywhere. The only decision IrelandOffline has to make is whether or not to encourage direct action, and I think you know my feelings on that: Use the grassroots, that's what they're there for.

adam

Urban Weigl

Even saying "45 euros ex vat", if it is a consumer product, is misleading. How many people will instantly know that it is about 55 euros, and how many will just say "ah sure, so it's about 45 euros".

Consumer products should never be quoted ex VAT. On the other hand if it's a business DSL package, quoting ex VAT is fine.

eirebhoy

I can't believe that people are acually defending David McRedmond. I have heard him a few times being interviewed and he sounds like a complete idiot.

Originally posted by Winters
I took offence to the fact that the Eircom dude failed to mention one thing about the CAP. Also that the DSL offering in ireland is of poor quality, over capped and overly expensive when compared to the same option in europe. Its a pity the interviewer didnt mention the cap and how pityfully small it actucully is

If the interviewer had've mentioned the cap i'm sure he would have got an answer just like this:

"I couldn't answer that, I'd have to refer it to a technical expert. But certainly we haven't had any significant level of complaints about it. However, it's an issue we'd always be looking at."

I got this quote from this interview which makes him out to be a bigger moron and the interviewer was a lot better this time too.;)

SkepticOne

Originally posted by eireboy
"I couldn't answer that, I'd have to refer it to a technical expert. But certainly we haven't had any significant level of complaints about it. However, it's an issue we'd always be looking at."

Thing is, this would have been the correct answer in a radio interview. He would have successfully sidestepped the issue - maybe not in the most elegant way, but it would have worked. The interviewer would have been forced to move on to the next question and the vast bulk of the audience would not have known what either of them were on about anyway. Well done McRedmond. Sure you would have a few people calling him a moron here, but McRedmond would not be in the least bit bothered. Neither would Eircom. We here are not the target.

I got this quote from this interview which makes him out to be a bigger moron and the interviewer was a lot better this time too.;)

However, journos of the callibre of Adrian Weckler are rare and Weckler also took advantage of the print medium to insert further comments (from ed.).

If you think people were 'defending' McRedmond, you may be missing the point somewhere along the line.

Ripwave

Originally posted by eireboy
If the interviewer had've mentioned the cap i'm sure he would have got an answer just like this:
"I couldn't answer that, I'd have to refer it to a technical expert. But certainly we haven't had any significant level of complaints about it. However, it's an issue we'd always be looking at."

If Eircom are handling a 1,000 installs a week for broadband, I doubt that they're getting more than a dozen complaints about the cap.

It's a simple fact that 90% of users will never breach eircoms cap, and eircoms stance all along has been that they "reserve the right" to charge for going over the cap, and that has effectively meant it's a weapon to discourage excessive use - it hasn't been used as a revenue generation mechanism. If you persistently try to use 20 or 30G, eircom might "encourage" you to upgrade to one of their higher priced offerings.

De Rebel

Originally posted by eireboy
I can't believe that people are acually defending David McRedmond.

I'm not sure that anybody is defending him. Certainly not I. What I do advocate is that we attack the message, not the messenger. That’s how it works in the grown up world.

Originally posted by eireboy
I have heard him a few times being interviewed and he sounds like a complete idiot.

On the basis of the interview you referenced, he sounds like anything but an idiot. In fact he comes across as being very clever. But I guess that depends on your definition of idiot.


For about the fifth time in this thread, gratuitous name calling will get us nowhere. Reasoned logical response delivered clearly and professionally will.

Respond to the message, not the taunts of the messenger....

zynaps

Originally posted by jbkenn
This might sound a bit ridiculous, but, what if IOFFL prepared as set of pertinent Q&A's for distribution to the various media as a rebuttal to the continual waffle from Eircom. for instance

Rollout - 10 zillion lines enabled ? well where are they

Line Failure - ? well their your lines why dont you fix them

2nd cheapest in Europe - ? relative to what

etc.


jbkenn

I think this is exactly what we could do with.

Give that man a cigar, and why don't we get to work on this?
Some distilled information, stats, comparisons, and (importantly) a justification as to why we would be doing it - to give the media a tool with which to have a more balanced position to deal with such situations as this interview.

If the interviewer had had a quick read of something like this before going on air, I think it would have been a much more worthwhile interview.

How about it?

zynaps

dahamsta

One thing I meant to add last night: I think it would be a very bad idea for IrelandOffine to distribute something like this to the media on spec. Even if it doesn't say "Eircom Lie Sheet" on top it'll be blatantly obvious that it's targetting Eircom, and targetting Eircom will make IrelandOffline out as anti-free-trade. This would be extremely bad for the org, particularly now now they're all cosied up to pols and suits. Plus of course it won't make The News, since IrelandOffline is a nonentity to most major media outlets.

If it's done at all, it needs to be done as soon as possible after Eircom have talked to a particular media outlet, which paints IrelandOffline in a much more attractive light as Defenders of Truth and Protector of the User, etc. Plus of course there's an excellent chance of a follow-up story, because, well, there's a story to follow up.

adam

spongebob

1. Eircom charges the highest residential line rental in the EU at €22.50 a month.

2. Eircom has the highest entry level charge for DSL for residential users at €54.50 a month. No other incumbent charges as much for a 512/128 package which is the entry level EU norm.

3. The combination of charges is a Stunning €77 a month.

It is no surprise that Ireland is at the top of both EU charts.

Compare this to the incumbent in the UK which is BT (Vat Incl as always)

__________________________Ireland______________UK_______IE as % of UK
Analogue Line Rental.......€22.50.............€15.......[b]150%[/b]
Entry Level DSL............€54.50.............€36.......[b]150%[/b]

Remember that a BT phone line, costing 2 thirds of an Eircom phone line, will give you minimum 28.8k data speeds while an Eircom phone line is guaranteed at 0k .

If the UK line does not give you 28.8k then BT must do something about it and if they won't then you can approach the regulator (Oftel) who will investigate YOUR complaint and do something FOR YOU which is their job. Telling you , the consumer , that they can do nothing for you is NOT part of Oftels job because Oftel are a professional regulatory body.

In Ireland you have a regulator named Comreg who won't do anything (apart from lying to the Dáil <cough>:D) , ESPECIALLY if asked to do so by a consumer.

There is a pattern in there in the sense that the Pope is Catholic.

1. BT are a far more efficient operator.
2. Eircom are a more inefficient and vastly greedier operator.
3. Comreg is a useless regulator when compared to Oftel.
4. We are all f!ck*d , we may as well do what we did with the fertiliser plant, sell it off to Chile in a package and say.....you use it because we cant figure out how to.....

M

Eurorunner

If it's done at all, it needs to be done as soon as possible after Eircom have talked to a particular media outlet, which paints IrelandOffline in a much more attractive light as Defenders of Truth and Protector of the User, etc. Plus of course there's an excellent chance of a follow-up story, because, well, there's a story to follow up.

I agree totally with what Dahamsta suggests above. Two recent examples spring to mind:
Adrian Weckler/Sunday Biz Post;
A recent article in Irish Times;

In both cases, eircoms unchallenged pr machine got its rubbish printed - but due to the level of response mainly from boards.ie people, we got followup articles balancing out the spin.

I regret that i havnt responded to today fm's Sunday Biz Show yet but hopefully will do this evening - with a view to proposing that they should cover the other side of the story.

If we can all find a few minutes for this, they may very well take notice.

The only email address i have for today fm is this one: 100-102@todayfm.com

Dont know if theres a more specific one for the sunday bizz show..?

ColinM

Hey, you know what? Maybe this guy David is not a moron or whatever else I said he was. Underestimating someone's intelligence is an elementary and dangerous mistake to make. Bear in mind though that when I posted my first comment, I was listening to the beginning of the interview where he was "explaining" what broadband is. And at that point, it can be legitimately said that he sounded like a stumbling idiot.

I have a particular dislike for marketeers who choose to "explain" what something is when it suits them. They usually end up describing what it very nearly is, but distinctly isn't. Of course, when it doesn't suit them, the standard response is "Oh, you'll have to ask someone technical." I'll save my venom for marketing droids for another place and time, but if anyone wants to get into the same frame of mind, read a little more Dilbert.

Maybe I was venting a little, but Eircom is just one of a number of things that irk me to the core about this country. Things like stealth taxes, VRT, smoking bans, price of drink, price of houses, price of everything, huge number of scumbags and nothing done to tackle crime, embarrasingly poor road system and incredibly bad traffic problems, inadequate healthcare facilities et-fricking-cetera.

Basically, I'm sick of being ripped off at every turn. As Michael Stipe sings in the new REM song, Bad Day - We're sick of being jerked around", and I'm telling you, I am.

I've already left this country before due to me being sick of a combination of these and other symptoms of this country's chronic rottenness. I came back because - well - I'm not quite sure - call it Stockholm Syndrome perhaps, but I can see myself leaving again for good if this corrupt little rock off the coast of Europe doesn't get its act together. I imagine there's alot like me too. What's going to happen if all of us tax payers leave? Who's going to fund our growing senior citizen polulation's state pensions then? Will the skangers suddenly all get jobs in that eventuality?

Ok, sorry - I started off by sounding like I was working up to an apology and ended up going off on one. But I'm sure you can all sympathise with my frustration.

Eurorunner - thanks for taking the effort to write a letter to the station. Maybe there will be a follow up interview with IOFFL, but somehow I think Eircom will win out in the end - ie: most people who don't research their purchasing decisions will just go with Eircom. PS - I like the "Now if Carlsberg did telecom companies" sig! Hey - they'd probably send over international supermodels to massage your back while you surfed the net. Actually, screw the Internet, just gimme the supermodels.