Dublin taxi service

Sarsfield

Just watched a report on the taxi service in Dublin on Prime Time.

Obviously its much better than it used to be. I was unfortunate enough to be at the peak of my partying years in the 90s and well remember queueing at College Green most Friday & Saturday nights.

Are there any other improvements that should be implemented that could be of benefit to both consumer and the industry?

Standards? Common livery (or vehicle type), presentation of vehicle & driver. Honest drivers???

Taxi charges? Specific tax & insurance schemes to help keep costs under control?

etc. etc.

FinoBlad

twice in the last few months i was refused entry into a taxi because [i reckon] i wasnt going far enough. It was mid-week at lunchtime, not raining and I was sober and well enough dressed.

both times they had the central locking on, i pulled the handle but it was locked, they then let down the passenger electric window and asked me where i was going. when i said how far, they both said sorry "no can do" or words to that effect.

seemingly if you are sitting in a taxi, they have to take you but if you are not in it, they dont.

Is there a minimum distance? One of these trips was Jurys Christchurch to Connolly Station, thats surely not a small trip.

rocco

I think the deal with the taxi drivers is there usually heading somewhere when this happens and if you dont ahppen to be going where they need to get its hard luck

Imposter

I got a taxi to the airport from Islandbridge one Monday morning a while back. I was watching the automatic thingee telling the driver what fares were available. One was there for the full time I was travelling. It was only a short trip and the talkative driver informed me that unless there was someone in the area who had just finished a fare near there then it wouldn't be done.

I think it's obvious to see that the people working as taxi drivers want to make money rather than provide a service.

tinofapples

Recently in Galway a taxi driver was fined €350 (I think) and had to pay three customers a sum each because he refused to take them .

He told the judge that he was tired and was only really interested in taking a fare that involved travelling in the direction of his home and bed in this case Knocknacarra.

Me and mate were getting a lift of the same driver a few weeks earlier and he had the hump asking my mate not to be eating his snackbox in the back of the car. He must have been tired that night too , a$$hole.

The judge even went on to comment about this guy that he shouldn't be on the road in the capacity of serving the public .

I agree with the man with the wig !!

loyatemu

I agree with the man with the wig !!

yeah, well I agree with the cabbie about the snackbox - whatever service he is providing he is not a mobile supermacs.

Dr. Loon

Originally posted by loyatemu
I agree with the man with the wig !!

yeah, well I agree with the cabbie about the snackbox - whatever service he is providing he is not a mobile supermacs.

I also agree with the cabbie. What sort of a knacker is your friend? It's not your friends problem when the taxi man has to clean his carpet of stamped in chips and bits of chicken skin.... never mind the bleedin smell.

Furball

I agree ........ To get a taxi when out in Dublin city centre, if its after 2 or 3 on a Sunday morning you must walk about a half a mile out of town before any of them stop for you. (If your lucky!)

Also have a question....... Is it true that if a taxi passes you by with there light on on the roof, an no one in the car, you can report them?
An who do you report them to??

Stark

Don't see why there should be a minimum distance. They have a minimum fare so they make their money one way or the other. Maybe if they're busy they might give priority to people needing to go further than walking distance or something.

tinofapples

Maybe if they're busy they might give priority to people needing to go further than walking distance or something.

I don't think they give a sh** to be honest , they're just out to make as much money as possible . I might add in fairness to most of them they are entitled to whatever money they make , they work till all hours of the morning , listen to sh1ttalk , sometimes abuse , sometimes may suffer physical abuse not to mention the times they get done when people skip paying .

IgnatiusJRiley

Originally posted by Imposter
I think it's obvious to see that the people working as taxi drivers want to make money rather than provide a service.

How awful of them to be motivated by money whilst the rest of us hard-working idealists just want to make the world a better place :rolleyes:

Victor

There will sooon be an interim taxi regulator.

Originally posted by Furball
Also have a question....... Is it true that if a taxi passes you by with there light on on the roof, an no one in the car, you can report them?

Only if you actually hail them

Originally posted by Furball
An who do you report them to??

The Carriage Office Dublin Castle, for the Dublin local Authorities.

robbie1876

My understanding is that during the day, taximen are really only interested in long journeys, while at night they are only interested in short journeys.

This is because if a taxi takes a 5 minute fare for say €5 around town at lunchtime, he could be sitting on a rank for half an hour waiting on another fare. So taking a fare to the suburbs from town makes more sense - they could get €20 - €25 and probably get another fare from the suburbs coming back into town.

Whereas at night, short fares are king. If you have 4 people get into a taxi, the meter goes to €4 or €5 before the driver lifts the clutch. Now if those 4 people are only going up the road, and another 4 get in straight away etc.... drivers can pull in €50+ an hour just hanging around town.

So when you get into the taxi in town at 3am and say you're going to Bray, the driver might make €30 out of you, but it'll take him well over an hour to get to Bray then back to town.

Capt'n Midnight

Bray is it ? - last time I checked that was in Co. Wicklow - so as far as I remember the meter doesn't apply, I've known people to get dropped off at the bridge (at the limit of the area) and walk the rest of the way home... so Mr Taxidriverperson will probably ask for a wee bit more than €30

Victor

Originally posted by robbie1876
So when you get into the taxi in town at 3am and say you're going to Bray, the driver might make €30 out of you, but it'll take him well over an hour to get to Bray then back to town.

I understand your point, but Bray itself is outside the Dublin Taxi Area and fares are subject to agreement between driver and passenger. It's not unknown for passengers to ask to be dropped at the county line and have a Bray taxi waiting for them.

Victor

Snap!

robbie1876

Fair enough, Bray is outside the Dublin area. I just picked that example cos I have been taxied several times to Bray. And once from Bray to Malahide. Cost us €70!

And I can't ever remember having made an 'agreement' with the driver in advance either.

MadsL

Desperately needed measures to reform the taxi service include;

1. A visible 'for hire' sign during daylight hours. Severe penalties for refusing a fare.
2. Removal of the radio/GPS system in taxis. Or hackneys to be allowed to pick up hailed fares and use bus lanes.
3. Roof lights legally wired to the meter so they are actually turned off when the taxi is hired.
4. The requirement to carry sufficient change for 50 euro AT ALL TIMES.
5. Receipts to be provided as a matter of law, not just on request.
6. Fire the Gob****e taxi marshall at Dublin Airport and get someone capable of managing the Q without blocking the doors. Get a decent taxi waiting area sorted.
7. Pass a 'No talking' and 'No radio' law - passengers have the right to read the paper in peace, rather than Gerry Ryan or 'yada yada yada'
8. Create a buffer zone at the county limits that would include the likes of Bray. make it illegal to refuse a fare out to Bray etc.
9. Pass a vehicle minimum standard law. Nissans from '89 need not apply.
10. Have a standard colour scheme/stripe to identify taxis.

neonitrix

another thing thats been getting on my nerves lately is the amount of fake notes i have been give in change my taxi drivers.

4 times in the last 6 weeks I have been given either fake 10 or 5 euro notes. Its too dark in a cab to check for the watermark. there should be an automatic light that comes on when your paying for your journey ie: when the driver prints the total so you can check change.


Neonitrix

somano

I'd go further, in Melbourne they have a charter that works both ways. eg

No eating or drinking in the cab by either driver or passenger

CAb has to be clean

Soiling charges are high

Passenger decides whether radio is on or not, plastic barricade across or not

PAssenger gets to choose the route !

Imposter

Originally posted by IgnatiusJRiley
How awful of them to be motivated by money whilst the rest of us hard-working idealists just want to make the world a better place :rolleyes:

Yes but my point was meant to be that these large taxi-services where they have over 400 taxis all answering to the same depot and if the drivers don't like the look of the run they won't do it. The customer that wants to go 1mile down the road today might be the same one that normally does 20miles a day with the company.

And it is supposed to be a service. I'd say there'd be a lot of protests from these self same taxi drivers if Dublin Bus ever decided (I do realise the possibilities of this happening are virtually non-existant) to put on a decent service that catered for people going to the airport early, those doing routes not going through the city centre and also a decent service during the night time and early morning hours.

Johnmb

Originally posted by MadsL
Desperately needed measures to reform the taxi service include;

1. A visible 'for hire' sign during daylight hours. Severe penalties for refusing a fare.
There's not a lot that can be done with that, lights just aren't as visable on bright days, and I don't think a physical sign is practical.

2. Removal of the radio/GPS system in taxis.
Not going to happen, and a ridiculous request as anyone would know if they ever drove a taxi. At the end of the day, taxis have to make profits, and being hailed of the street/rank alone will not allow most taxi drivers to survive.

Or hackneys to be allowed to pick up hailed fares and use bus lanes.
Bus lanes maybe, but not picking up off the street, as then what is the point of buying a taxi licence? Although, I would suggest that hackneys be allowed to use taxi ranks between midnight and 4am, as that is a time when demand far outweighs supply, so it shouldn't effect taxi drivers.

3. Roof lights legally wired to the meter so they are actually turned off when the taxi is hired.
That should be easily achieved, as long as a manual override can be applied to turn off the light without turning on the meter.

4. The requirement to carry sufficient change for 50 euro AT ALL TIMES.
Better still, a legal requirement for passangers to carry correct change. I always wonders what the idiots who would hand over a 50 euro note as payment for a 4 euro journey were thinking. Shops have no legal requirement to have a minimum amount of change, why should taxi drivers?

5. Receipts to be provided as a matter of law, not just on request.
They already are, they come out automatically, the driver has no choice in the matter.

6. Fire the Gob****e taxi marshall at Dublin Airport and get someone capable of managing the Q without blocking the doors. Get a decent taxi waiting area sorted.
The drivers want this too. This is the fault of Aer Rianta, nothing to do with the drivers, or the local authorities.

7. Pass a 'No talking' and 'No radio' law - passengers have the right to read the paper in peace, rather than Gerry Ryan or 'yada yada yada'
If the passanger doesn't like what's on the radio of the taxi, then get another taxi. No such law applies to shops, why should it apply to taxis?

8. Create a buffer zone at the county limits that would include the likes of Bray. make it illegal to refuse a fare out to Bray etc.
Impossible, unless they change the metered areas. The reason a driver doesn't have to take you outside the metered area is because he/she can't pick up another passanger. As a result, if they agree to take you outside the area, they have to make sure it is worth their while. They are running a business, not a charity.

9. Pass a vehicle minimum standard law. Nissans from '89 need not apply.
Nothing wrong with an '89 Nissan, as long as it is in good condition. Age shouldn't be a factor, they should just start enforcing the cleanliness, condition standards. There seems to be less and less bangors acting as taxis lately, and if you see a taxi is a bangor, get into another one.

10. Have a standard colour scheme/stripe to identify taxis.
If someone can't identify a taxi with that big sign on the roof, they need to try a new pair of glasses. There are more important things to worry about than costing drivers needless expense to respray their cars.

De Rebel

Originally posted by Johnmb
9. Pass a vehicle minimum standard law. Nissans from '89 need not apply.
Nothing wrong with an '89 Nissan, as long as it is in good condition. Age shouldn't be a factor, they should just start enforcing the cleanliness, condition standards. There seems to be less and less bangors acting as taxis lately, and if you see a taxi is a bangor, get into another one.

And with them get rid of all those manky old carinas, corollas and the other dirty smelly old bangers. There seems to be no quality control whatsoever. I paid nearly 40 yoyos this morning for a gut wrenching 30 minute trip from the airport to Dun Laoghaire. And you can't just hop out and get the next in line. You always have to take the first in the queue or they go ballistic.

Another thing that needs sorting is the 200 person queue for taxis in Dublin Airport and that ould geezer sayin "go up there to number 1 and he'll be along in a minute" Its shambolic, watching poor confused mericans standing in a "line" in the rain waiting for a taxi. What a first impression.

And the other wish is for a regulator to use the taxi rank at Dublin airport frequently and come down hard on any of the drivers who start one of those "lets find out if the gob****e knows Dublin before i determine my route" conversations. In my experience, this happens in about 50% of taxis leaving the airport. I've had some fun with that on a few occasions!!

Johnmb

Originally posted by De Rebel
And with them get rid of all those manky old carinas, corollas and the other dirty smelly old bangers. There seems to be no quality control whatsoever. I paid nearly 40 yoyos this morning for a gut wrenching 30 minute trip from the airport to Dun Laoghaire. And you can't just hop out and get the next in line. You always have to take the first in the queue or they go ballistic.
If you think a taxi is too dirty, you can just go to the next one. It doesn't matter if the driver likes it or not, he won't kick up too much of a fuss, as then you'd just have to threaten to phone the carraige office, and if his car really is dirty, he could be taken off the road.

Another thing that needs sorting is the 200 person queue for taxis in Dublin Airport and that ould geezer sayin "go up there to number 1 and he'll be along in a minute" Its shambolic, watching poor confused mericans standing in a "line" in the rain waiting for a taxi. What a first impression.
That's Aer Rianta.

And the other wish is for a regulator to use the taxi rank at Dublin airport frequently and come down hard on any of the drivers who start one of those "lets find out if the gob****e knows Dublin before i determine my route" conversations. In my experience, this happens in about 50% of taxis leaving the airport. I've had some fun with that on a few occasions!!
Some are dishonest attempts to go on a tour, others are attempts to find a prefered route. Most places in Dublin can be gotten to by more than one route, and often there is nothing to choose between those routes, yet some people are just convinced that their route is the quickest, and if the driver goes another way, no matter how quick it is, the driver was ripping them off. So its often just easier to ask the passanger which way they want to go, save all the hassle.

De Rebel

Originally posted by Johnmb
If you think a taxi is too dirty, you can just go to the next one. It doesn't matter if the driver likes it or not, he won't kick up too much of a fuss, as then you'd just have to threaten to phone the carraige office, and if his car really is dirty, he could be taken off the road.

On the few occasions I tried walking away from the first cab and taking the second one it caused a stink and inevitably the second driver refused me, leaving me in a worse situation. I didn't do anything to inflame the situation, the second driver in each case simply refused and pointed me back to the first cab in the line.

Originally posted by Johnmb
Some are dishonest attempts to go on a tour, others are attempts to find a prefered route. Most places in Dublin can be gotten to by more than one route, and often there is nothing to choose between those routes, yet some people are just convinced that their route is the quickest, and if the driver goes another way, no matter how quick it is, the driver was ripping them off. So its often just easier to ask the passanger which way they want to go, save all the hassle.

I've met the one or two who are open, honest and transparent and say something like: "There are 3 routes we can take, the most direct one has a large hole in it called the port tunnell and is gridlocked, the other obvious route through......... was blocked because of an accident on my way out and the radio reports are that it is still blocked up, I can try a third route but it is longer and may cost you 10 euro more...... What would you like to do?" - I have NO PROBLEM with that approach. But I have to say that that approach is representative of the minority. I have FAR more frequently had blatent underhand attemps to ascertain whether or not I knew the route. On a few occasions I have gone along with the "first time in the big smoke" and had some interesting experiences. On 3 occasions (including one where we went from the airport to Mount Street via the Red Cow) I got free rides after reading back to the driver a detailed log of the route taken and my intention to submit the route, his plate number and registration number to the editors of the national dailies.

Overall my experience of Dublin/Irish taxi drivers is poor compared to other countries. (I lived in the greater Dublin area for over 10 years and in the last 2 years visit dublin about 40 times a year and use perhaps 6/7 taxis each trip) A small minority are pleasent, honest and keep their cabs clean and in good order. There are a large percentage who fail at least one of those tests. In my opinion, it geta a poor-average rating.

MadsL

1. A visible 'for hire' sign during daylight hours. Severe penalties for refusing a fare.

There's not a lot that can be done with that, lights just aren't as visable on bright days, and I don't think a physical sign is practical.

Why not? Been used in London for years.

2. Removal of the radio/GPS system in taxis.

Not going to happen, and a ridiculous request as anyone would know if they ever drove a taxi. At the end of the day, taxis have to make profits, and being hailed of the street/rank alone will not allow most taxi drivers to survive.

Why not? Been done in London for years.

Or hackneys to be allowed to pick up hailed fares and use bus lanes.

Bus lanes maybe, but not picking up off the street, as then what is the point of buying a taxi licence? Although, I would suggest that hackneys be allowed to use taxi ranks between midnight and 4am, as that is a time when demand far outweighs supply, so it shouldn't effect taxi drivers.

What is the point of having a taxi service if they are all HACKNEYS - try hailing a taxi between 8am and and 5.30pm.

4. The requirement to carry sufficient change for 50 euro AT ALL TIMES.
Better still, a legal requirement for passangers to carry correct change. I always wonders what the idiots who would hand over a 50 euro note as payment for a 4 euro journey were thinking.
They are usually thinking I've just been to the cash machine and I need to get a taxi.
I was late for work one morning, got a taxi and the guy didn't even have change of a tenner for a 5.20 fare.

Shops have no legal requirement to have a minimum amount of change, why should taxi drivers?
Shops carry a float in every till at the start of their business day, why can't taxi drivers carry a float? If a shop has no change, I walk out. I can't do that once I have racked up a fare and I haven't been told that he has no change at the start of the journey.


5. Receipts to be provided as a matter of law, not just on request.
They already are, they come out automatically, the driver has no choice in the matter.


They have the option NOT to give them to the drunk guy that they just ripped off. They are still an on request item.


6. Fire the Gob****e taxi marshall at Dublin Airport and get someone capable of managing the Q without blocking the doors. Get a decent taxi waiting area sorted.
The drivers want this too. This is the fault of Aer Rianta, nothing to do with the drivers, or the local authorities.



Don't care whose fault, blatent incompetance needs to be dealt with.



7. Pass a 'No talking' and 'No radio' law - passengers have the right to read the paper in peace, rather than Gerry Ryan or 'yada yada yada'
If the passanger doesn't like what's on the radio of the taxi, then get another taxi. No such law applies to shops, why should it apply to taxis?


In Chicago they have a taxi by-law which states that the radio should be turned off if the passanger requests it. Passenger = customer = right.


8. Create a buffer zone at the county limits that would include the likes of Bray. make it illegal to refuse a fare out to Bray etc.
Impossible, unless they change the metered areas. The reason a driver doesn't have to take you outside the metered area is because he/she can't pick up another passanger. As a result, if they agree to take you outside the area, they have to make sure it is worth their while. They are running a business, not a charity.


What do you not understand about a buffer zone. They WOULD be allowed to pick up in the buffer zone - but ALLOWED to refuse a fare not travelling back to their taxi area. Most refusals and problems are caused with travelling to Bray which is 0.3 miles outside of the meter area. The nitelink used to be just as pedantic and ridiculous.

9. Pass a vehicle minimum standard law. Nissans from '89 need not apply.
Nothing wrong with an '89 Nissan, as long as it is in good condition. Age shouldn't be a factor, they should just start enforcing the cleanliness, condition standards. There seems to be less and less bangors acting as taxis lately, and if you see a taxi is a bangor, get into another one.

just start enforcing the cleanliness, condition standards. Exactly my point.

10. Have a standard colour scheme/stripe to identify taxis.
If someone can't identify a taxi with that big sign on the roof, they need to try a new pair of glasses. There are more important things to worry about than costing drivers needless expense to respray their cars.


Should pay for itself
http://www.mad.ie/do4u.html

Johnmb

Originally posted by MadsL
1. A visible 'for hire' sign during daylight hours. Severe penalties for refusing a fare.

There's not a lot that can be done with that, lights just aren't as visable on bright days, and I don't think a physical sign is practical.

Why not? Been used in London for years.
You live in Dublin, not London.

2. Removal of the radio/GPS system in taxis.

Not going to happen, and a ridiculous request as anyone would know if they ever drove a taxi. At the end of the day, taxis have to make profits, and being hailed of the street/rank alone will not allow most taxi drivers to survive.

Why not? Been done in London for years.
And if London taxi drivers all stuck their hands in a fire, would you expect Dublin drivers to do the same? Dublin drivers won't make enough money to survive if they don't get to use their radios. If they could then they wouldn't bother paying base fees to have one.


Or hackneys to be allowed to pick up hailed fares and use bus lanes.

Bus lanes maybe, but not picking up off the street, as then what is the point of buying a taxi licence? Although, I would suggest that hackneys be allowed to use taxi ranks between midnight and 4am, as that is a time when demand far outweighs supply, so it shouldn't effect taxi drivers.

What is the point of having a taxi service if they are all HACKNEYS - try hailing a taxi between 8am and and 5.30pm.
I have, many times. That's the one section of the day when there isn't a problem.

4. The requirement to carry sufficient change for 50 euro AT ALL TIMES.
Better still, a legal requirement for passangers to carry correct change. I always wonders what the idiots who would hand over a 50 euro note as payment for a 4 euro journey were thinking.
They are usually thinking I've just been to the cash machine and I need to get a taxi.
I was late for work one morning, got a taxi and the guy didn't even have change of a tenner for a 5.20 fare.
Maybe because the idiot who got in before you payed with a 50 euro bill for a 3.75 fare. The bank excuse wouldn't work with buses, or shops who were short of change, why should it work with taxi drivers. What money you get from a bank is your problem, noone else's.

Shops have no legal requirement to have a minimum amount of change, why should taxi drivers?
Shops carry a float in every till at the start of their business day, why can't taxi drivers carry a float? If a shop has no change, I walk out. I can't do that once I have racked up a fare and I haven't been told that he has no change at the start of the journey.

Well, the smart people say to the driver before he starts that they only have a 50 euro (or whatever) note, then he can either arrange to stop for change on the way, or you can try another taxi if he has no change.

5. Receipts to be provided as a matter of law, not just on request.
They already are, they come out automatically, the driver has no choice in the matter.


They have the option NOT to give them to the drunk guy that they just ripped off. They are still an on request item.

They have no option. The only reason a passanger will not get a receipt is if the passanger walks off before the printer finishes.

6. Fire the Gob****e taxi marshall at Dublin Airport and get someone capable of managing the Q without blocking the doors. Get a decent taxi waiting area sorted.
The drivers want this too. This is the fault of Aer Rianta, nothing to do with the drivers, or the local authorities.



Don't care whose fault, blatent incompetance needs to be dealt with.


Just making it clear that this particular problem has nothing to do with taxi drivers.

7. Pass a 'No talking' and 'No radio' law - passengers have the right to read the paper in peace, rather than Gerry Ryan or 'yada yada yada'
If the passanger doesn't like what's on the radio of the taxi, then get another taxi. No such law applies to shops, why should it apply to taxis?


In Chicago they have a taxi by-law which states that the radio should be turned off if the passanger requests it. Passenger = customer = right.

If you love Chicago so much, move there, the rest of us live in Dublin, so the Dublin taxi service is what we use. If the driver wants to listen to a radio in his own car, he will. If the passanger doesn't like it, he can ask for it to be turned off before the journey, and if the driver refuses, the passanger can get another taxi.

8. Create a buffer zone at the county limits that would include the likes of Bray. make it illegal to refuse a fare out to Bray etc.
Impossible, unless they change the metered areas. The reason a driver doesn't have to take you outside the metered area is because he/she can't pick up another passanger. As a result, if they agree to take you outside the area, they have to make sure it is worth their while. They are running a business, not a charity.


What do you not understand about a buffer zone. They WOULD be allowed to pick up in the buffer zone - but ALLOWED to refuse a fare not travelling back to their taxi area. Most refusals and problems are caused with travelling to Bray which is 0.3 miles outside of the meter area. The nitelink used to be just as pedantic and ridiculous.
As I said, to do that the metered areas would have to be changed. That's up to the local authorities. Buffer areas already exist in any case. I can't remember the exact figures, but it was something like 35euro to Bray, but when a friend once treated it as a metered fars, it was about 31 euro (and that was with a fairly clear run). The big money doesn't get charged unless you are going much further, in which case your buffer area wouldn't apply in any case.

9. Pass a vehicle minimum standard law. Nissans from '89 need not apply.
Nothing wrong with an '89 Nissan, as long as it is in good condition. Age shouldn't be a factor, they should just start enforcing the cleanliness, condition standards. There seems to be less and less bangors acting as taxis lately, and if you see a taxi is a bangor, get into another one.

just start enforcing the cleanliness, condition standards. Exactly my point.

10. Have a standard colour scheme/stripe to identify taxis.
If someone can't identify a taxi with that big sign on the roof, they need to try a new pair of glasses. There are more important things to worry about than costing drivers needless expense to respray their cars.


Should pay for itself
http://www.mad.ie/do4u.html
??? Did you read the url you gave? Taxi drivers (who alread use such things) would lose out on this, often needed, form of income if a standard colour scheme was imposed.

De Rebel

Johnmb, you persist with this “………and if the driver refuses, the passenger can get another taxi” in response to an number of the discussion points. As I said earlier, I have never found this to be deemed acceptable behaviour by the taxi drivers themselves. Trying to get into anything other then the first taxi in the queue never works for me. Anybody else had experience of this?

You appear to have given up on five or six of the points made, with either lame responses ("If you love Chicago so much, move there, the rest of us live in Dublin, so the Dublin taxi service is what we use". "And if London taxi drivers all stuck their hands in a fire, would you expect Dublin drivers to do the same?") or no responses at all. Is that the best you can do in your defence of the Dublin Taxi Service?

Johnmb

Originally posted by De Rebel
Johnmb, you persist with this “………and if the driver refuses, the passenger can get another taxi” in response to an number of the discussion points. As I said earlier, I have never found this to be deemed acceptable behaviour by the taxi drivers themselves. Trying to get into anything other then the first taxi in the queue never works for me. Anybody else had experience of this?
If you have a valid complaint, you can get a different taxi, regardless as to what the driver feels. If the first driver really wants your business, he'll turn off/down the radio, otherwise he'll let you get another taxi. If he gives you any grief, take down his licence number and tell him you are getting the carraige office involved. Of course, if you are just being a pain in the arse, the carraige office will tell you what to go do with yourself, and you can walk.

You appear to have given up on five or six of the points made, with either lame responses ("If you love Chicago so much, move there, the rest of us live in Dublin, so the Dublin taxi service is what we use". "And if London taxi drivers all stuck their hands in a fire, would you expect Dublin drivers to do the same?") or no responses at all. Is that the best you can do in your defence of the Dublin Taxi Service?
Those responses relate to the lameness of the arguments. Who cares what they do in other countries? In Nigeria they stone women for committing adultery, should we do that here? No? Why not? They do it in Nigeria, so it should be done here. That is how much sense your they do it in London/Chicago, so it should be done here argument makes. This is Dublin. The For Hire signs in London taxis are pretty useless, unless you are right on top of the taxi, in which case you can already see if it is occupied, and you can usually see the light on the sign except on the brightest of days (which can also cause problems for seeing the For Hire sign in London taxis due to the sun reflecting off the window). As for the radio playing, I've never heard one being very high, they are usually background music. If that upsets you, tough. It exists in shops, offices, waiting rooms, etc. The driver is entitled to a bit of comfort to get through the day, especially when there are so many people out there who just complain about the silliest of things.
There is nothing else that you rose that I didn't point out the flaws in the complaint.

De Rebel

Originally posted by Johnmb
If you have a valid complaint ....[snip].... you can walk.

That about sums it up.

My problem with this “………and if the driver refuses, the passenger can get another taxi” business isn't a questions of whether I can walk away from the first taxi or not, clearly I can. The problem is the reaction from the second and subsequent taxis in the queue. In my experience they always point you back to the first cab and effectively refuse you. I have tried this on a few occasions and never had any success. Your experiences may have been different.

Originally posted by Johnmb
Those responses relate to the lameness of the arguments. Who cares what they do in other countries? In Nigeria etc etc

Looking back over the thread it would appear that the point of the international comparisons was an attempt at benchmarking or comparing ourselves to international best practice. That's a perfectly valid way to conduct an argument.

Johnmb

Originally posted by De Rebel
That about sums it up.
A poor sign when someone feels a need to edit selected quotes in an attempt to make some sort of point.

My problem with this “………and if the driver refuses, the passenger can get another taxi” business isn't a questions of whether I can walk away from the first taxi or not, clearly I can. The problem is the reaction from the second and subsequent taxis in the queue. In my experience they always point you back to the first cab and effectively refuse you. I have tried this on a few occasions and never had any success. Your experiences may have been different.
And they are quite right to do that if the complaint is as sad as "I don't like the music". If its a case of a taxi being dirty, you will have no problem, if you do, phone the carraige office to report both taxis (the dirty one, and the one that refused to take you).


Looking back over the thread it would appear that the point of the international comparisons was an attempt at benchmarking or comparing ourselves to international best practice. That's a perfectly valid way to conduct an argument.
But you didn't compare it to international best practice. You picked out two exceptions to international best practice, and claimed that the Dublin drivers should do the same. Why should they? Why shouldn't the Chicago taxis fall in line with Dublin taxis instead?

MadsL

John, why don't you just come clean and admit that you are a taxi driver.

Whilst by and large most Dublin taxi drivers are excellent (and I've lived in Prague where it was a nightmare not getting ripped off) There is an attitude in Dublin taxi drivers unions that "If you don't like it, then Feck off" whilst at the same time trying to keep the Hackneys at bay - not in my bus lane, but I'll do your radio jobs and if someone tries to hire me on the street while I'm on the way - they can Feck Off too!

London cabbies ARE quite simply the best in the world. They do so by being knowledgeable, available to anyone who sticks out their hand without any 'on my way to a job, mate' nonsense, they carry change, don't have radios because they are proud of the fact they they earned the Knowledge. They drive Black Cabs recognisable throughout the world.

There's your best practice - stick that in your tatty '89 Nissan with a detachable roof sign that you never bother to turn off and 'if you don't like it, walk.' 'exact change only' attitude to customer service.

And yes I live in Dublin, a major european capital city. We deserve better.

Johnmb

Originally posted by MadsL
John, why don't you just come clean and admit that you are a taxi driver.
Nobody brought up the subject regarding me before. The story there is that I'm not a taxi driver, but I was for one year, from May/June 2001 to May 2002. As a result, I know what drivers have to put up with, I know what money they earn, and I know how they earn that money. I sold up because taxi driving wasn't for me.

Whilst by and large most Dublin taxi drivers are excellent (and I've lived in Prague where it was a nightmare not getting ripped off) There is an attitude in Dublin taxi drivers unions that "If you don't like it, then Feck off" whilst at the same time trying to keep the Hackneys at bay
It has always been my opinion the the unions brought on the deregulation themselves. The facts at the time was that most peoples complaints about lack of taxis regarded specific times, if the unions had any sense, they would have negotiated a way for hackneys to pick up the slack during those times (especially for night club patrons). They refused to budge, and payed the price.

- not in my bus lane,
That would be tough to police. I can see the taxi drivers point of view, but my own has always been that bus lanes should be returned to the road users, not just for taxis and buses, so I can't really defend them.

but I'll do your radio jobs and if someone tries to hire me on the street while I'm on the way - they can Feck Off too!
The simple fact is that the radio jobs pay the bills. If you take them away from the taxis, you will no longer have many taxis around. Picking up off the street and ranks does not make enough money to pay the bills and have something to live on.

London cabbies ARE quite simply the best in the world. They do so by being knowledgeable, available to anyone who sticks out their hand without any 'on my way to a job, mate' nonsense, they carry change, don't have radios
How often do you use London taxis? They have radios, and the main reason they usually have change is because there are less thick people using them. On one occassion, I had a passanger give me a 100 euro note as payment for a fare that was under 5 euros. Luckily that passanger had the good sense to ask me about it before the journey, and I happened to have the change. It was also the middle of the day, there's no way I would have admitted to having change of 100 euros if it had been a quiter time were I could be robbed. I also planned to finish up shortly, but if I hadn't, where would I get that 100 euro changed for the next passanger? It was a Saturday, so no banks open.

because they are proud of the fact they they earned the Knowledge. They drive Black Cabs recognisable throughout the world.
They are recognisable throughout the world for the same reason New York yellow cabs are, they've been in a lot of movies based in London (read New York for yellow cabs, obviously). That doesn't make them better. If lots of movies were based in Dublin, the roof signs would also become recognisable throughout the world.

There's your best practice - stick that in your tatty '89 Nissan with a detachable roof sign that you never bother to turn off and 'if you don't like it, walk.' 'exact change only' attitude to customer service.
Black cabs have radios, that the drivers listen to. If they are on a call, they can't pick you up. If passangers don't give them smaller change, they will run out. They are pretty much the same as Dublin taxis, if used often. If used rarely, you can either have a good experience, or a bad experience, with either.

And yes I live in Dublin, a major european capital city. We deserve better.
We have better, than many. People thinking that taxis are their personal change giving machines does not improve the taxi service. People deciding that taxi drivers should not be allowed to listen to a radio because they don't like Gerry Ryan does not improve the taxi service. And people deciding that taxi drivers should not be able to earn a living by being available for calls does not improve the taxi service.

MadsL

A few facts about Black Cabs

All black taxis have to pass the 'Condtions of Fitness'. This means that they must have a 25ft (7.6m) turning circle so the cab can U-turn off a central rank, that the passenger compartment must be high enough that a bowler-hatted passenger can sit in comfort, and that the entrance must be level with the floor, and not above 15in (38cm) from ground level. Cabs must also all be wheelchair accessible.

To ensure the taxis pass the Conditions of Fitness, and that they are safe to carry the public, they all have to pass a test three times stricter than the MOT1 for private cars every year. For instance, the tyres on a private car need only to be legal at the time of the test. A taxi will be assessed for wear and tear up to the next test. If the tires will not last a year, they will not pass. Taxis are also assessed by inspectors doing spot checks in the street. If the car fails, it will not be able to ply for hire again until it has been back to the passing station for a retest.

Taxis do not have to be black. They are allowed various forms of advertising on the panels of the cars, namely: single door advertising, double door advertising (the doors on each side must match), and full body advertising, called livery. Nothing is allowed on the boot, because the license plate and the registration number must not be obscured. But the basic shape of the cab makes it obvious that it is a Black Cab.

The Drivers
Most drivers own their own cars, and about 2/3rds of them PREFER not to use a two-way radio. Drivers do not have to stop if you hail them, whether or not the yellow 'taxi' sign is lit. This is because, legally, taxis are not plying for hire when they are moving. However, if they do stop, they are considered 'standing in the street' and cannot refuse a fare under six miles2 or that will take less than one hour. These regulations are to prevent the now non-existent horse3 from becoming fatigued or thirsty.

Compare this with the dogs dinner of vans, saloons and minibuses plying trade in Dublin. Where the 'knowledge' means a basic understanding of what forms to fill in and where pay your five grand.

Johnmb

Originally posted by MadsL
A few facts about Black Cabs

All black taxis have to pass the 'Condtions of Fitness'. This means that they must have a 25ft (7.6m) turning circle so the cab can U-turn off a central rank, that the passenger compartment must be high enough that a bowler-hatted passenger can sit in comfort, and that the entrance must be level with the floor, and not above 15in (38cm) from ground level. Cabs must also all be wheelchair accessible.
This is nothing to do with Irish cabs, and it also only applies to London (if at all). Outside London, taxis are similar to Dublin taxis.

To ensure the taxis pass the Conditions of Fitness, and that they are safe to carry the public, they all have to pass a test three times stricter than the MOT1 for private cars every year. For instance, the tyres on a private car need only to be legal at the time of the test. A taxi will be assessed for wear and tear up to the next test. If the tires will not last a year, they will not pass.
I'd like to see you provide a reference to back this up. It is impossible for a tester to predict how much wear and tear tyres will get, that is why they can only be tested as they are at the time of the test.

Taxis are also assessed by inspectors doing spot checks in the street. If the car fails, it will not be able to ply for hire again until it has been back to the passing station for a retest.
The carraige office carry out spot checks here too.

Taxis do not have to be black. They are allowed various forms of advertising on the panels of the cars, namely: single door advertising, double door advertising (the doors on each side must match), and full body advertising, called livery. Nothing is allowed on the boot, because the license plate and the registration number must not be obscured. But the basic shape of the cab makes it obvious that it is a Black Cab.
Which puts them on a par with Irish taxis, the manky looking roof sign makes it obvious that it is a taxi, regardless of the colour.

The Drivers
Most drivers own their own cars,
As with Dublin, since deregulation.

and about 2/3rds of them PREFER not to use a two-way radio.
Nearly every London taxi that I've been in had a two-way radio (I can't think of ever been in one that didn't). Where did you get this figure from?

Drivers do not have to stop if you hail them, whether or not the yellow 'taxi' sign is lit. This is because, legally, taxis are not plying for hire when they are moving.
Something similar to Dublin, yet people seem to be complaining about that.

However, if they do stop, they are considered 'standing in the street' and cannot refuse a fare under six miles2 or that will take less than one hour. These regulations are to prevent the now non-existent horse3 from becoming fatigued or thirsty.
So Dublin taxis would be better then, as they have to take you anywhere within the metered area, which could be up to 30 miles (one side to the other).

Compare this with the dogs dinner of vans, saloons and minibuses plying trade in Dublin. Where the 'knowledge' means a basic understanding of what forms to fill in and where pay your five grand.
Have you ever applied for a PSV licence? I'll answer that for you, no you haven't. How do I know? Well, simple. If you had applied, you'd know there is a bit more to becoming a taxi driver, or indeed a hackney, than filling out a few forms and paying a fee. As for the selection, that is a good thing. Some people prefer to have a choice. They vans are prefered by groups, and wheelchair bound people, the saloons are prefered by old people (both generalised). Most people don't give a damn, once it gets them from A to B.

MadsL

Cabs must also all be wheelchair accessible.
This is nothing to do with Irish cabs, and it also only applies to London (if at all).

**Yeah, right. No-one in a wheelchair in Dublin.

Outside London, taxis are similar to Dublin taxis.

**Tell that to Birmingham, Oxford, Manchester, Leeds, Cardiff...will I go on..

I'd like to see you provide a reference to back this up

** Hansard and Ms Glenda Jackson do you?

"6-ply-rated tyres are specified for London taxis by their manufacturers to ensure that they have the appropriate load and speed characteristics and adequate wear resistance, particularly at the shoulders. The Public Carriage Office requires the tyres to be marked "taxi" to indicate that they are approved for use on London taxis and are of the appropriate circumference to ensure accurate meter readings. "

Hansard Written Answers


The carraige office carry out spot checks here too.

**when was the last prosecution!

2/3rds of them PREFER not to use a two-way radio.

Where did you get this figure from?
BBC london I think they should have a clue.

Drivers do not have to stop if you hail them, whether or not the yellow 'taxi' sign is lit. This is because, legally, taxis are not plying for hire when they are moving.

Something similar to Dublin, yet people seem to be complaining about that.

**I'm complaining about stopping, asking where to? and if you don't fancy driving somewhere, refusing the fare. London Black Cabs are prohibited from doing that. The rules about distance make sense, London is a big city, but the knowledge covers the old city - Six miles from Charing Cross.

there is a bit more to becoming a taxi driver, or indeed a hackney, than filling out a few forms and paying a fee.

1. Pay five grand.
2. Pay insurance
3. Show NCT cert and Insurance cert.
4. Buy Meter and roof sign
http://www.taxi.ie/howto.shtml
What did I miss? A Garda background check perhaps, a test of how familiar you are with Dublin? Advanced Driving test?
Hmm, thought not.

Johnmb

Originally posted by MadsL
Yeah, right. No-one in a wheelchair in Dublin.
Truely pathetic that you have such a poor argument that you feel it necessary to partially quote, out of context, in order to try to make a point.

Tell that to Birmingham, Oxford, Manchester, Leeds, Cardiff...will I go on..
You can go on if you want. Birmingham, Oxford, Oldham and Manchester do not require their taxis to be Black Cabs. They operate similar to Dublin.

sard and Ms Glenda Jackson do you?

"6-ply-rated tyres are specified for London taxis by their manufacturers to ensure that they have the appropriate load and speed characteristics and adequate wear resistance, particularly at the shoulders. The Public Carriage Office requires the tyres to be marked "taxi" to indicate that they are approved for use on London taxis and are of the appropriate circumference to ensure accurate meter readings. "
Which says nothing about the inspectors having to predict wear and tear. What it does say is basically what the Irish Legal Metrology Service does, and what the NCT checks (i.e. making sure the tyres allow for accurate meter readings.

When was the last prosecution!
That I know off personally, when the Euro changeover happened, and a taxi was operating at Hueston station before having gotten his meter sealed. The carraige office got him, ask them what happened.

2/3rds of them PREFER not to use a two-way radio.

Where did you get this figure from?
BBC london I think they should have a clue.
I can't see anything about two-way radios there, but I did see this:
Taxi drivers are not legally obliged to give change. If a large note is offered the driver is entitled to take the cash, and offer to post the change to the passenger's home address.


I'm complaining about stopping, asking where to? and if you don't fancy driving somewhere, refusing the fare. London Black Cabs are prohibited from doing that. The rules about distance make sense, London is a big city, but the knowledge covers the old city - Six miles from Charing Cross.
The only time I have ever seen taxi drivers do this is when they are going home. The alternative is that they don't stop, and even if you were going in the general direction, you can just wait for another taxi. I'd much rather a driver going home will at least stop and say that if I'm going in that general direction he'll drop me off. If I'm not, I'll wait, but I'm no worse off than I would be if he didn't stop at all.


1. Pay five grand.
2. Pay insurance
3. Show NCT cert and Insurance cert.
4. Buy Meter and roof sign
http://www.taxi.ie/howto.shtml
What did I miss? A Garda background check perhaps, a test of how familiar you are with Dublin? Advanced Driving test?
Hmm, thought not.

What you missed. First, you need a PSV licence. You get that from the Gardai. To get it, they perform a background check (although the courts have interfered in this), and you must pass a test which shows you are familiar with all the main routes of Dublin (assuming it is the Dublin metered area you want to work). Then you get your car, and buy a plate (price depends on type, 6,350 for a normal plate, 130 for a wheelchair accessable), then you get your insurance, meter and sign. Then you get the meter sealed. And only then do you get the NCT, as they won't test you if the meter is not already there and sealed, and the wiring for the sign is not already in place. Then, and only then, can you operate. Within a month of buying the plate, you must return with the NCT cert and insurance, otherwise you will lose the plate.

MadsL

1. The point that I made was that ALL London taxis have to be wheelchair accessible - and because of the basic classic good design in the first place they are. No need to change much, just a ramp needed for the wheelchair which is stored in the boot. London made good laws but no such law in Dublin. Just an 'encouragement' through pricing made in the last couple of years. You said it had nothing to do with Dublin. C'mon tell us - Was your cab wheelchair accessible? - Or was it 'nothing to do with Dublin'?

2. Oxford for one (Where I once worked as a dispatcher for a mini-cab co.) does require its taxis to be black cabs. The rest are mini-cabs and cannot stop for passengers on the street.

3. The point about the PCO test is that it is much stricter than than the NCT - Taken EVERY year and for mini-cabs in London may soon be every six months. A much more regulated taxi service than Dublin, therefore cleaner & safer.

4. You are obsessed with the change thing, how hard is to keep basic change on board a cab? You are on wheels FFS! Go get some when you run out. When I ran a bar, when if we ran out change I sent someone out to get some. Didn't happen very often, as we had a float to start with. Not a big deal.

5. Euro changeover time the Carriage Office were making a big effort, especially given the numbers of drivers who 'couldn't get the time' to have the meter changed cus the guy 'was too busy'.

6.(Refusing a fare when flagged)

The only time I have ever seen taxi drivers do this is when they are going home

or on their way to 'a radio job' 'a call' 'me lunch'. The point is, it is none of the drivers business 'where are you going' - he should be hired the moment he stops, if he does want the work he shouldn't stop. There is no excuse for 'picking and choosing'.

Background check.
That'll keep out people like The Monk and that *******
convicted in 1995 of raping and having unlawful carnal knowledge of a 14 year old girl, then will it? Or perhaps not.

Test
I cannot find this 'test' published. Perhaps you would like to compare it to the 25, 000 street names and 400 routes that a London Cabbie is expected to know.
Most cabbies take 3 years to prepare and pass this test. I believe there is a one-night night school for the Irish test.

I'll finish with just one question. Which offers a better, more accessible, safer, cleaner, know where you stand, customer friendly service? London or Dublin? And if you think it is Dublin then why didn't you stay a taxi driver then?

Johnmb

Originally posted by MadsL
1. The point that I made was that ALL London taxis have to be wheelchair accessible - and because of the basic classic good design in the first place they are. No need to change much, just a ramp needed for the wheelchair which is stored in the boot. London made good laws but no such law in Dublin. Just an 'encouragement' through pricing made in the last couple of years. You said it had nothing to do with Dublin. C'mon tell us - Was your cab wheelchair accessible? - Or was it 'nothing to do with Dublin'?
There was more to the quote I was replying to than the wheelchair requirement, but you cut that part out to make it seem that I was only refering to the wheelchair requirement. No my car was an Avensis.

2. Oxford for one (Where I once worked as a dispatcher for a mini-cab co.) does require its taxis to be black cabs. The rest are mini-cabs and cannot stop for passengers on the street.
They seem to have no problem stopping for me when I'm there. I rarely go as far as the rank. having said that, the mini-cabs are cheaper.

3. The point about the PCO test is that it is much stricter than than the NCT - Taken EVERY year and for mini-cabs in London may soon be every six months. A much more regulated taxi service than Dublin, therefore cleaner & safer.
Do you know what the NCT requirements are for taxis? And the NCT for taxis is every year, from the start.

4. You are obsessed with the change thing, how hard is to keep basic change on board a cab? You are on wheels FFS! Go get some when you run out.
Where? Why should a shop have to provide me with change just because of some dumb passanger who decided I should be his personal change machine?

When I ran a bar, when if we ran out change I sent someone out to get some. Didn't happen very often, as we had a float to start with. Not a big deal.
Where did you get change? And how big of a float do you expect taxi drivers to have?

5. Euro changeover time the Carriage Office were making a big effort, especially given the numbers of drivers who 'couldn't get the time' to have the meter changed cus the guy 'was too busy'.
It had nothing to do with getting the meter changed. The dual currency period was more than enough. The carraige office are still doing the rounds to enforce existing requirements. If they aren't doing enough, that doesn't mean there should be new requirements, it means the carraige office should get more people.

6.(Refusing a fare when flagged) or on their way to 'a radio job' 'a call' 'me lunch'. The point is, it is none of the drivers business 'where are you going' - he should be hired the moment he stops, if he does want the work he shouldn't stop. There is no excuse for 'picking and choosing'.
As I said, I'd prefer he stop if there is any chance he'll take me where I want to go. I can gain something if he stops, I gain nothing if he keeps on going.

Background check.
That'll keep out people like The Monk and that *******
convicted in 1995 of raping and having unlawful carnal knowledge of a 14 year old girl, then will it? Or perhaps not.
The background check did keep them from getting a licence. The great judges in our wonderful court system overruled the gardai, and issued the licence.

Test
I cannot find this 'test' published. Perhaps you would like to compare it to the 25, 000 street names and 400 routes that a London Cabbie is expected to know.
Most cabbies take 3 years to prepare and pass this test. I believe there is a one-night night school for the Irish test.
I don't know what the school covers. As for the test, you are required to know all main routes, where all main buildings (hospitals, museums, government, landmarks etc) are, and how to get to them. There is no number given, you must know them all, as that is what you are tested on. You need to get at least 80% (IIRC) to pass.

I'll finish with just one question. Which offers a better, more accessible, safer, cleaner, know where you stand, customer friendly service? London or Dublin? And if you think it is Dublin then why didn't you stay a taxi driver then?
They are both the same. London taxi drivers are just like Dublin drivers. Some are good, some aren't. If you think all London taxi drivers are so good, then you obviously haven't gotten them too often. No Dublin taxi driver has ever tried to rip me off (although a hackney did once), whereas at least twice in London their drivers have. Why is that? Because there I'm a tourist, here I'm a local. Its the same all over the world, tourists are more likely to be ripped off than locals.

Sarsfield

I'm not a huge fan of Dublin taxis, but I have to say I don't have any particular problem with them. Since de-regulation I can get a cab home with no problem (as in just now!)

I can also confirm that London cabbies are just as likely to try to rip off tourists as any other taxi drivers. It's happened to me twice.

However I do think the black cab is a design classic and would be more than happy to see more of these in Dublin. In fact I wish all taxis all over the world were black cabs.

MadsL

Originally posted by Johnmb
Originally posted by MadsL
1. The point that I made was that ALL London taxis have to be wheelchair accessible - and because of the basic classic good design in the first place they are. No need to change much, just a ramp needed for the wheelchair which is stored in the boot. London made good laws but no such law in Dublin. Just an 'encouragement' through pricing made in the last couple of years. You said it had nothing to do with Dublin. C'mon tell us - Was your cab wheelchair accessible? - Or was it 'nothing to do with Dublin'?
There was more to the quote I was replying to than the wheelchair requirement, but you cut that part out to make it seem that I was only refering to the wheelchair requirement. No my car was an Avensis.

********OK I will quote what you said in full...********

I said ...
All black taxis have to pass the 'Condtions of Fitness'. This means that they must have a 25ft (7.6m) turning circle so the cab can U-turn off a central rank, that the passenger compartment must be high enough that a bowler-hatted passenger can sit in comfort, and that the entrance must be level with the floor, and not above 15in (38cm) from ground level. Cabs must also all be wheelchair accessible.

You said...
This is nothing to do with Irish cabs, and it also only applies to London (if at all). Outside London, taxis are similar to Dublin taxis.

****So therefore you don't care that ALL cabs are not accessible, as proven by the fact that you happily drive an Avensis even though the plate is massively cheaper for a disabled cab, the disabled can shag off.*****

2. Oxford for one (Where I once worked as a dispatcher for a mini-cab co.) does require its taxis to be black cabs. The rest are mini-cabs and cannot stop for passengers on the street.
They seem to have no problem stopping for me when I'm there. I rarely go as far as the rank. having said that, the mini-cabs are cheaper.

So you were unable to see all the Black Cabs the last time you were there? Because every Black cab is only in London IIRC your argument was. I lived in Oxford for 6 years and worked in a mini-cab co. I think I'm on safe ground here.

3. The point about the PCO test is that it is much stricter than than the NCT - Taken EVERY year and for mini-cabs in London may soon be every six months. A much more regulated taxi service than Dublin, therefore cleaner & safer.
Do you know what the NCT requirements are for taxis? And the NCT for taxis is every year, from the start.

And what exactly is more demanding on the Taxi NCT than the standard NCT, other than the requirement to have signage and a sealed meter?

4. You are obsessed with the change thing, how hard is to keep basic change on board a cab? You are on wheels FFS! Go get some when you run out.
Where? Why should a shop have to provide me with change just because of some dumb passanger who decided I should be his personal change machine?

some dumb passanger

I think the word you are struggling with is "CUSTOMER"

personal change machine

WTF? They are trying to pay for your living!
What exactly would you expect to happen if a publican poured you a pint and then said "I've no change for that, you idiot" when you offered to pay with a tenner, and then told you to go out in the rain and change it somewhere else. I bet you'd be really 'understanding'.

Now that has happened to me with a taxi fare of 5.20. I am not a mindreader. My fare could be 5.20 or 10.20 depending on the traffic, so I HAVE to take it on trust that the taxi driver has a reasonable amount of change. He doesn't and gets shirty that I didn't TELL him I only had tenners. Now why TF he didn't tell ME that he had no change. Best part is I hailed him off a rank where he had been sitting for 40 mins. So that's my fault then. Glad you made it clear.


When I ran a bar, when if we ran out change I sent someone out to get some. Didn't happen very often, as we had a float to start with. Not a big deal.
Where did you get change? And how big of a float do you expect taxi drivers to have?

Where did you get change? Let me think - pull it out of your ass, maybe? At the bank you fool. You run a business, think ahead. Keep a stock of change at home. Take it out on your first job, top up when you have a job close to your house. Buy a fivers worth of fuel with your fiftys. Cup of Tea at mcDonalds - pay with a fifty. Is this rocket science? I'd say 50 euro coins in a sock would serve a nice dual purpose. You could smack anyone with the temerity to offer anything other than exact change over the head with it.

5. Euro changeover time the Carriage Office were making a big effort, especially given the numbers of drivers who 'couldn't get the time' to have the meter changed cus the guy 'was too busy'.
It had nothing to do with getting the meter changed. The dual currency period was more than enough. The carraige office are still doing the rounds to enforce existing requirements. If they aren't doing enough, that doesn't mean there should be new requirements, it means the carraige office should get more people.


Who else has been prosecuted. Has anyone actually gone to prison for ripping off a tourist (way I see it it is Theft) or lost their licence?


6.(Refusing a fare when flagged) or on their way to 'a radio job' 'a call' 'me lunch'. The point is, it is none of the drivers business 'where are you going' - he should be hired the moment he stops, if he does want the work he shouldn't stop. There is no excuse for 'picking and choosing'.
As I said, I'd prefer he stop if there is any chance he'll take me where I want to go. I can gain something if he stops, I gain nothing if he keeps on going.


We'd all gain if any taxi (including hackneys) could pick up on the street and use bus lanes, and end this stupid situation where taxis are taxi one minute and then pretend hackneys the next.

Background check.
That'll keep out people like The Monk and that *******
convicted in 1995 of raping and having unlawful carnal knowledge of a 14 year old girl, then will it? Or perhaps not.
The background check did keep them from getting a licence. The great judges in our wonderful court system overruled the gardai, and issued the licence.


I believe it was the gardai that fecked up the licence for the rapist.

Test
I cannot find this 'test' published. Perhaps you would like to compare it to the 25, 000 street names and 400 routes that a London Cabbie is expected to know.
Most cabbies take 3 years to prepare and pass this test. I believe there is a one-night night school for the Irish test.
I don't know what the school covers. As for the test, you are required to know all main routes, where all main buildings (hospitals, museums, government, landmarks etc) are, and how to get to them. There is no number given, you must know them all, as that is what you are tested on. You need to get at least 80% (IIRC) to pass.


I bet the average dublin driver could pass that without studying. How many people fail this test?


I'll finish with just one question. Which offers a better, more accessible, safer, cleaner, know where you stand, customer friendly service? London or Dublin? And if you think it is Dublin then why didn't you stay a taxi driver then?
They are both the same. London taxi drivers are just like Dublin drivers. Some are good, some aren't. If you think all London taxi drivers are so good, then you obviously haven't gotten them too often. No Dublin taxi driver has ever tried to rip me off (although a hackney did once), whereas at least twice in London their drivers have. Why is that? Because there I'm a tourist, here I'm a local. Its the same all over the world, tourists are more likely to be ripped off than locals.

you obviously haven't gotten them too often.

I lived in London for 3 years...yes I have.

Its the same all over the world, tourists are more likely to be ripped off than locals.

That why you need stringent regulation, a sense of identity (colour scheme) and a very high bar for standards of entry and service. The taxi service is often the measure of a city. Tourist arriving here, gets chaos at the airport, and maybe a driver who does the 'local' test on him. Taxi drivers need to be their own policemen too and not put up with any scammers on the ranks. I agree Dublin taxi drivers are largely very good, but the service needs to become more professional.

Victor

OK guys, tone it down a little. Attack the post not the poster.

Johnmb

Originally posted by MadsL
So therefore you don't care that ALL cabs are not accessible, as proven by the fact that you happily drive an Avensis even though the plate is massively cheaper for a disabled cab, the disabled can shag off.
That has to be one of the most ignorant statements I've seen posted here. There are many disabled people, and not all of them get wheelchairs. Those that don't, but have trouble with their mobility actually request cars rather than vans. The elderly also generally request cars. Vans are not accessible to them.

So you were unable to see all the Black Cabs the last time you were there? Because every Black cab is only in London IIRC your argument was. I lived in Oxford for 6 years and worked in a mini-cab co. I think I'm on safe ground here.
More ignorance doesn't forward your argument any. I never claimed that there were no Black Cabs in Oxford, I said it wasn't a requirement. I was there earlier this year (just after Easter), ans they had taxis that were not Black cabs, just as they've had everytime I've gone over for the last three years.

And what exactly is more demanding on the Taxi NCT than the standard NCT, other than the requirement to have signage and a sealed meter?
The vans require different tyres, obviously, much like a Blac Cab would. For other examples I suggest you do some research rather than making claims about which you clearly know nothing.

They are trying to pay for your living!
What exactly would you expect to happen if a publican poured you a pint and then said "I've no change for that, you idiot" when you offered to pay with a tenner, and then told you to go out in the rain and change it somewhere else. I bet you'd be really 'understanding'.
Now you are trying to change the subject. The example that was brought up, was someone using a 50 euro note to pay for their fare. Besides, if we're going to compare taxis to anyone, it should either be other Dublin public transport, which is exact change only, or another taxi service, let's say London, where they'll post you your change. Given that, I think Dublin taxis are very good. If only more passagers would exercise a bit of cop-on, and have smaller change, there wouls never be a problem.

Now that has happened to me with a taxi fare of 5.20. I am not a mindreader. My fare could be 5.20 or 10.20 depending on the traffic, so I HAVE to take it on trust that the taxi driver has a reasonable amount of change. He doesn't and gets shirty that I didn't TELL him I only had tenners. Now why TF he didn't tell ME that he had no change. Best part is I hailed him off a rank where he had been sitting for 40 mins. So that's my fault then. Glad you made it clear.
Well, its strange that he didn't have change of a tenner, but that could be because the person before you gave him a 50 to pay for a short journey, and that used up all his change. You want taxi drivers to have to take large notes and give change, then get used to them not having any change left for you.

Where did you get change? Let me think - pull it out of your ass, maybe?
Yep, there's a sensible argument.

At the bank you fool. You run a business, think ahead. Keep a stock of change at home. Take it out on your first job, top up when you have a job close to your house. Buy a fivers worth of fuel with your fiftys. Cup of Tea at mcDonalds - pay with a fifty.
Banks don't open all day, and taxi drivers are trying to earn a living, why should they have to spend their money in order to create change? Why should thay have to spend half an hour queuing up to get change? They don't get pais when they are queuing.

Is this rocket science? I'd say 50 euro coins in a sock would serve a nice dual purpose. You could smack anyone with the temerity to offer anything other than exact change over the head with it.
50 Euro coins would only last for one passanger if that passanger uses a 50 euro note to pay a small fare.

Who else has been prosecuted. Has anyone actually gone to prison for ripping off a tourist (way I see it it is Theft) or lost their licence?
Have you asked the carraige office? Why not? Afraid they'd give you an answer that didn't agree with your claims?

We'd all gain if any taxi (including hackneys) could pick up on the street and use bus lanes, and end this stupid situation where taxis are taxi one minute and then pretend hackneys the next.
This is just sad. Taxis are perfectly entitled to answer calls. Many people who phone actually ask for a taxi specifically (not sure why, but they do). The fact that most people prefer to phone for a taxi means you are not speaking for all passangers.

I believe it was the gardai that fecked up the licence for the rapist.
I doubt it. Every scumbag I've heard off got their licience via the courts. If the gardai did issue one to a rapist, that is one example out of over 10,000, and given the size of the carraige office, that is damn good.

I bet the average dublin driver could pass that without studying. How many people fail this test?
All I needed to do to pass was to study a good map, and mark pubs, clubs, hotels etc on it. Also, it is a good idea to buy a copy of the regulations, as they are obviously going to be asked as well. And brush up on your rules of the road. For failure rates, ask the carraige office, I only know how I did.

I lived in London for 3 years...yes I have.
Well then you should have known that they do have two-way radios, they do listen to radio stations, and they do run short of change.

That why you need stringent regulation, a sense of identity (colour scheme)
That's B/S. All Athens taxis look the same, and they try to rip me off nearly every time I get one. A colour scheme does nothing other than cost drivers money in both lost revenue and repainting costs.

and a very high bar for standards of entry and service.
Given that you clearly haven't had a clue about what the standards of entry and service actually are, how can you criticise them?

The taxi service is often the measure of a city. Tourist arriving here, gets chaos at the airport,
That's Aer Rianta, not the Dublin taxi service. Moan at them if you have a problem with their service.

and maybe a driver who does the 'local' test on him.
That happens in every country. Singling out the Dublin service is very naive.

Taxi drivers need to be their own policemen too and not put up with any scammers on the ranks. I agree Dublin taxi drivers are largely very good, but the service needs to become more professional.
Dublin drivers do police themselves. I know of at least two examples of drivers being kicked out of the base due to passanger complaints.

De Rebel

Originally posted by De Rebel
My problem with this “………and if the driver refuses, the passenger can get another taxi” business isn't a questions of whether I can walk away from the first taxi or not, clearly I can. The problem is the reaction from the second and subsequent taxis in the queue. In my experience they always point you back to the first cab and effectively refuse you. I have tried this on a few occasions and never had any success. Your experiences may have been different.
Originally posted by Johnmb
And they are quite right to do that if the complaint is as sad as "I don't like the music". If its a case of a taxi being dirty, you will have no problem, if you do, phone the carraige office to report both taxis (the dirty one, and the one that refused to take you).

Pyrrhic victory, and not very practical. You offered the “skip one taxi and go for the next one in the queue” as a panacea for all sorts of ills (No change, unacceptable interior condition, loud radio making conversation with a colleague impractical, etc.). I have already given you my reasons why this is impractical and hasn’t worked for me in the past. Making a note of the taxi numbers and phoning the carriage office still leaves me on the side of the street. That’s not a solution. The thread is about what need to be done to improve the Dublin Taxi Service. Standing at a taxi rank reporting taxi plate numbers to the carriage office is not my idea of the way forward.

Originally posted by De Rebel
Looking back over the thread it would appear that the point of the international comparisons was an attempt at benchmarking or comparing ourselves to international best practice. That's a perfectly valid way to conduct an argument.
Originally posted by Johnmb
But you didn't compare it to international best practice. You picked out two exceptions to international best practice, and claimed that the Dublin drivers should do the same. Why should they? Why shouldn't the Chicago taxis fall in line with Dublin taxis instead?

Sorry, I didn’t pick out anything. Others did. I’m not sure why you consider the examples listed to be “two exceptions to international best practice”. But lets look at others, I’ll list 4 international cities with which I am pretty familiar, Milan, Brussels, Singapore, Hong Kong. I can confidently say that I have accumulated over 500/600 taxi rides in these 4 alone. Never once have I had to listen to Gerry Ryan or his international equivalents at high volume. Never once have I had problems about tendering reasonable notes. Never once have I been taken on a tour, or sussed out to know whether I know the lie of the land or not. Never once have I had smells and odours that made me queasy. Maybe I’m lucky. But in my opinion, these cities, offer a service that is superior to that offered in Dublin. Thats my opinion, and your "all out of step but my johnny" line is doing nothing to change it.

Originally posted by Victor
OK guys, tone it down a little. Attack the post not the poster.

Sorry Victor, its not my intention to personalise this, but....this thread started with a general question about what needs to be done to improve the standard of the taxi service in Dublin. There were a number of suggestions, some serious, some light hearted, some more practical than others. Johnmb is adding nothing to the original topic, simply trotting out excuses why things shouldn’t change/improve. His posts show him to be little more than an apologist for the current regime.

Victor

Thread locked for 24 hours.

MadsL

First re-opened thread whootage! In yer face John MB!!!!

Sorry, I'll calm down.

Ok, John we'll turn the question around, I'm prepared to listen. What would you do to improve the taxi service??

De Rebel

Originally posted by MadsL
First re-opened thread whootage! In yer face John MB!!!!

Ha Ha beat me to it!!!!!!!

Originally posted by MadsL
Ok, John we'll turn the question around, I'm prepared to listen. What would you do to improve the taxi service??

Ditto. I'm all ears John.

Johnmb

I already replied. Victor locked the thread before I pressed submit, and I'm not about to retype everything again. Instead, I'll simply unsubscribe from the forum.

As for mproving the taxi service, simple, practical recomendations are what would be needed. Ensuring that scumbags know that taxi drivers will alway have a minimum amount of whatever cash is not practical. Doing things like allowing hackneys to pick up from ranks during known peak hours that taxis can't cope with (e.g. midnight to 4am, etc) is practical.

Now, I'm going to unsubscribe from the forum, as I don't agree with the moderators behaviour in locking the thread when I was in the middle of a reply, which not only wasted my time typing it, but also took away my opportunity to respond to what was clearly a personal slur, and took away my opportunity to deal with some issues raised. I obviously won't be aware of any further responses.

MadsL

You taking your ball home then, John?

Victor

OK lads no need for that behavior. Everyone is entitled to a civilised opinion. /me looks at everybody accusingly.

Johnmb, we rarely see eye to eye, but you are perfectly welcome on the forum. Apologies for locking while you were replying.

De Rebel

Originally posted by MadsL
You taking your ball home then, John?

Our team WINS !!