Changes in Phantom

magpie

Being a wizened old Phantom listener I can't help noticing a few subtle chanegs in the station, which I'm sure are to comply with some silly BCI regulations, but sound a little corporate to these cloth ears...

1) "Dublin's Weekend ROCK". Now, if it was a Rawk! station how many of us would be interested. Ok, they play some US kiddie-punk type stuff, but also introduce us to interesting bands like Hot Hot Heat, Interpol etc, who unless I am mistaken are either "Indie" or "Alternative". "Rock" just conjures up images of white trainers and Metallica T-Shirts. Is this because the BCI don't understand what Alternative Music is?

2) What's up with the news every hour? Is this a BCI stipulation? At least give us music news, as the "news" news just sounds incongruous. And no offence, but the guy reading the news sounds more wooden than my sideboard. "And-to-day-in-the-news-in-Israel-a-number-of-miltants-were....". He sounds like a robot trained to speak like Rodney from only fools and horses.

3) Why oh why do we have to have Spin/Fm104/98Fm style "Buddy chat shows" with 2 djs, preferably one female, going on about a succession of old bollocks? What next, a phone in show to complain about taxi drivers? STICK TO THE MUSIC!

Now, I never did get around to sending that tape in to Phantom...

ferdi

Originally posted by magpie
And no offence, but the guy reading the news sounds more wooden than my sideboard. "And-to-day-in-the-news-in-Israel-a-number-of-miltants-were....". He sounds like a robot trained to speak like Rodney from only fools and horses

ah leave poor steve alone. they have the news to make them sound more pro so they get the oulde licencse and because some people ike to be informed about world affairs.

as for the US punk kiddie stuff, i've been listening to phantom for years too and i happen to revel in this genre as well as countless others, as do others.

as for "DUBLIN'S WEEKEND RAWK", it has a better ring to it than "Dublin's weekend "Indie" or "Alternative"." you seem to have a very narrow view of what rock music is if you connect it with white trainers and Metallica T-Shirts.

the talkin shows are cool, the 2 petes kick ass, lighten up.

i'm just glad to see phantom back, keep it up.

peace

BrianD

Magpie

Thanks for the feedback ... it's good to hear what our listeners are thinking and your opinions about the station.

In response to a few issues that you raised -

The tag line "Dublin's Weekend Rock" was simply selected to communicate as much information about the station in a "nutshell". We are a Dublin station, that broadcasts at weekends only and the music we play is predominately of the rock genre. As a term, "rock" is as imperfect as "indie" or "alternative" What exactly is alternative music ... an alternative to what? Remember Kylie Minogue, in the past, was officially an indie artist and was no.1 in the NME Indie charts for many a week. Why? Because she was on an independent label.

The news service is a not a BCI stipulation. It is simply in response to the overwhelming demand from Phantom FM listeners to have a news service. We do not want to trivialise or "dumb down" our news service by adding entertainment/news news - we put the entertainment/music news into our programming. Our aim is to have a short concise news service that keeps Phantom FM listeners up to date with local, national and international happenings. In the event of Phantom FM securing a full time licence, news and current affairs programming will be a necessary part of programming.

There are no "buddy chat" shows, as you call them, on 97.3 Phantom FM. The only talk show on the station is the Two Petes Talk Rubbish (Sundays 21:00-22:00). I think you'll find this a refreshing change to the salacious "lets talk about sex" shows on other stations. Then again, it may not be your cup of tea!

Cherry

Originally posted by BrianD
The only talk show on the station is the Two Petes Talk Rubbish (Sundays 21:00-22:00).

The best show all weekend.

No offense to the others

Steve Conway

Originally posted by magpie


2) What's up with the news every hour? Is this a BCI stipulation? At least give us music news, as the "news" news just sounds incongruous. And no offence, but the guy reading the news sounds more wooden than my sideboard. "And-to-day-in-the-news-in-Israel-a-number-of-miltants-were....". He sounds like a robot trained to speak like Rodney from only fools and horses.


Now, I never did get around to sending that tape in to Phantom... [/B]

Magpie,

You'd be amazed how many people (regular long-term listeners) have told us that the news completes the station. Two years ago, when I used to have the time to be able to come in 5 days a week to present the Breakfast show, I was similarly told by many people that no matter how much of a phantom fan they were, they wouldn't listen in the morning unless they could have a news content.

As Brian points out, music news is a feature of the main programmes - I'd point you particularly to "The Producers" on Saturday evening (international) and "ICON" on Sunday afternoon (Irish).

As regards the content and delivery, I refuse to subscribe to the notion - very popular in some circles - that because we are broadcasting to a younger audience, we must assume that we are dealing with Veeeeerrrry stupiiiiiiiiiiiiiiip Peeeeeooooplesssss and that we must present lightweight news, preferably in a sing-song "matey" style, with jolly tunes in the background.

Many (but by no means all) of our audience are young, and they are intelligent and interested in what goes on in the world around them.

Our policy is to have up to date, brief (2 mins mostly, 3 mins at 9, 1 and 6) news bulletins, read clearly and directly.

You will also find that unlike many outlets, we do not simply repeat the same bulletins all day, all are compiled in-house, read live and no two bulletins are identical.

Also, we make a point of going directly to music straight out of the news, avoiding endless promos and backchat.

In response to listener feedback, we introduced sports info to the news - our dedicated sports presenter joins us next weekend. As per the above, we are by choice staying clear of the "newsman chatting to sports man" and just including his reports directly - give the info, and get back to the music would sum up our news presentation policy!

And finally, no offence taken at the Rodney remark, but I have to correct you: I'm more like Uncle Albert really . . . . .

Tyrrial

Magpie... i think i know what you need....

it wont have any news, so you can stay in your shell
it wont play any music that may hurt your poor little head
AND
No people talking (because i'm sure your afriad of human contact).

what is this magical wonderful place i hear you ask??

.....

your Fúcking CD PLAYER!!!

magpie

I'm just jealous.

karma kabbage

I kinda see the 'rawk' point... it's not quite accurate, but lets face it unless it's called 'dublins weekend rock-with-new-irish-bands-and-a-large-content-of-indie-and-alternative-to-mainstream-music' it would not be quite so catchy! But classification has got o be the most insignificant detail really.

as for the news bit, I kinda agree. I'm sure many people like the outside of THEIR shells. But you could find that on absolutely any station (tv or radio) or even in a newspaper. But the public gets want the public wants etc...

And as for the two Petes... YEAH BABY!!!! could listen to em all weekend.

+ woah tyrrial....too much cunning wit n'est pas?

magpie

Right, I was too busy/lazy to post a proper reply earlier, but here goes...

BrianD: In the event of Phantom FM securing a full time licence, news and current affairs programming will be a necessary part of programming.

Why is this? BCI stipulation, or because 'proper' stations have news?

Tyrrial: it wont have any news, so you can stay in your shell

To be honest Tyrrial, I get my news from The Irish Times, or Ireland.com if I can't be bothered buying a paper. I don't fear news, or the outside world. I just prefer to get it from a source I trust. Much in the same way I don't look to the Irish Times to introduce me to interesting new music. That's what Phantom is supposed to be for.

Steve: As regards the content and delivery, I refuse to subscribe to the notion - very popular in some circles - that because we are broadcasting to a younger audience, we must assume that we are dealing with Veeeeerrrry stupiiiiiiiiiiiiiiip Peeeeeooooplesssss and that we must present lightweight news, preferably in a sing-song "matey" style, with jolly tunes in the background.

I couldn't agree more. There's nothing more aggravating.

Steve: Our policy is to have up to date, brief (2 mins mostly, 3 mins at 9, 1 and 6) news bulletins, read clearly and directly

OK, you say potato, I say potato. You say clearly and directly, I say hesitantly and monotonously. But hey, let's not fall out over it.

Steve: You will also find that unlike many outlets, we do not simply repeat the same bulletins all day, all are compiled in-house, read live and no two bulletins are identical.

Right, groovy. Fair play to you. I'd just rather see the time and effort going into your music programming. Stick to what you're good at. Being a DJ. And let the journalists stick to doing the news.

Steve: dedicated sports presenter

How dedicated? (sorry, poor joke). Now this I really take exception to, as a very dedicated sport-hater. Are we going to be getting scores from Croke Park? Analysis of Bohs versus St Pats? PLEASE say it ain't so?

I guess, to sum up your honour, I liked Phantom when it was a pirate station and now it's moving into the middle ground more and more (sportscasters....urgh) it is starting, in my humble opinion, to lose touch with what made it good in the first place.

Steve: I'm more like Uncle Albert really

Can you try reading the news in the style of Boycie? or Trig?

Steve Conway

Originally posted by magpie



Right, groovy. Fair play to you. I'd just rather see the time and effort going into your music programming. Stick to what you're good at. Being a DJ. And let the journalists stick to doing the news.

(and)

How dedicated? (sorry, poor joke). Now this I really take exception to, as a very dedicated sport-hater. Are we going to be getting scores from Croke Park? Analysis of Bohs versus St Pats? PLEASE say it ain't so?

Hi Magpie,

If we win a full-time licence in the future, there is a solid requirement for 10% news and current affairs - in theory that works out as 6mins per hour, but it's overall, so you can trade off wholly speech programmes such as Media Beacon against it etc etc, so that you could reduce it to something much more acceptable per hour in the "normal" hours. That, btw, is what all those late night phone-in shows on the big stations are about - to splurge as much as possible speech/current affairs content in one go.

(If I can diverge for a moment, there used to be a similar situation in the UK, where there was a tough restriction on "needletime" - the amount of time that you could devote per day to playing copyright musical recordings. It was something ridiclous like 12 or 14 hours per day. In order to get around this, many stations used to close at midnight and reopen at 6am, and the ones which went through the night often did so with endless phone-ins, in order to "save" the music for the daytime shows. This is why, even in the 80s, when most stations were on FM, the offshore pirate Radio Caroline was able to clean-up by playing music round the clock, even though they were on AM).

(I did warn you I was Uncle Albert - anyone on Phantom will tell you that my version of "Back in the war . . " is "When I was on Radio Caroline . . ." - their eyes glaze over and they usually find an excuse to leave the room pretty sharpish )

Back to the topic in hand - while we are not *required* to have any news on the current temporary licence, quite apart from the fact that a good section of our audience DO want to be kept updated, we are demonstrating that we are capable of running the various different functions that will be required for a full licence. We were forever being told that it was fine and dandy for us being a pirate, but that if we had to live in the real world, we wouldn't be able to do these things . . .

As regards sticking o being a DJ, actually I'm a journalist who became a DJ against his will! I was Head of News on the aforementioned Radio Caroline for 3 years, and only ended up being dragged into doing DJ work due to staff shortages.

I *do* enjoy DJ-ing on Phantom - the music is great and the people who contact me are very friendly - but news was always my first love.

As to the sport, have no fear. It is being put into the late afternoon news bulletins on Saturday and Sunday as an item in the existing bulletin, and will not increase the length of the news. I'm thinking roughly 30/40 secs for the short/long bulletins so your eyes won't have time to glaze over. And it is something that people were calling in to specifically ask us for. (I'm actually a rabid sport hater myself, but I accept that not everyone is).

To summerise, I know that you in particular may not like having news on Phanton - but there are quite a few people who want to hear Phantom's music AND also have these updates. We've though long and hard about it, and formatted the news to be a quick and seamless as we can - roughly half the length of the average track played on the station, no goofing about, and I'd bet you could fit 3 of our bulletins into the long advert/news/advert/sport/advert/weather/presenter&newscaster gossip that you get on the top of the hour at many other stations.

Everyone else on the station (the real DJs ) concentrates wholly on the music programmes - the fact that I concentrate on the news does not, I think, take anything away from the amount of effort that they can provide.

And finally, as you can see from my posts that I'm not a man who will use 50 words when he cn use 500 instead, you should marvel at my self discipline in keeping the news so short . . .

Thanks for taking the time to put your ideas down, Magpie.

magpie

Alright Steve, nice one. I bow to your loquacity and dedication.... not to mention having survived Radio Caroline being torpedoed by the Germans during the war!

Keep up the good work. I shall just close my ears for the sports news!

spoiltbrat

Magpie, just wanted to say fair play to you for having an honest opinion and not being afraid to highlight something that we're all reasonably wondering about.

ferdi

Originally posted by Steve Conway
Two years ago, when I used to have the time to be able to come in 5 days a week to present the Breakfast show,

those were the days, oh for those days again:(

Cherry

Originally posted by ferdi
those were the days, oh for those days again:(

I muchly second that.

A terrible loss.

karma kabbage

see this i think is the fundamental fear... those of us who have been avid fans of Phantom for year upon year... fear the loss of that. If the licence is (hopefully) gained will we lose all that phantommy goodness we've come to love over the years?

The addition of the news is rather a fundamental change to the phantom experience (one with alot of feedback even here). One I do not supposrt myself I must say.... BUT I listened in and found no problem with the news itself (other than its' existance). I'm willing to accept that not everyone appreciates uninterrupted music as I. I would of course prefer if they availed of newspapers of the tv or even the multitutde of other stations providing the service (as magpie mentioned). But having said that; Steve IS efficient and concise in his rendition and it makes little overall difference. If more than most listeners desire this then it is something to be bourne.

May I ask how strong the call for news reports were? Is it unquestionable? Otherwise would a re-count on the news matter satisfy the masses? Maybe? Suggestion only.

Steve Conway

Karma and Magpie, can I thank you again for taking the time to express your views, and the reasons for them (rather than just saying "it's crap"! ).

That is so much appreciated, even if we can't always agree on the detail.

As regards Phantom losing it's core qualities, I would be concerned if we were refusing to play unknown bands because "they're unknown - no one has heard of them - we need to play safe". I would be concerned if we were putting Madonna and Gareth Gates tracks into the playlist to try to appeal to a wider audience. I would be concerned if our news reports included details of who Britney Spears has been seen kissing this week.

I really, honestly, don't feel that including a small news service within Phantom is moving away from our ideals - rather I see it as including something that a portion of Phantom listeners would like, so that they don't have to go away from us to other stations to get news on the radio. (this is assuming that the news is kept in poportion and handled with sensitivity to the rest of the station output, see later).

Setting the above aside entirely, I can assure you that being seen to be able to provide a news service is something that cannot fail to help in the licence application, as it silences those people in the industry who have consistantly (and wrongly) claimed that you really have to get "real" radio people (i.e. the existing radio conglomerates) in order to be able to do all the things that a "real" licenced station has to do.

You have no idea how annoying it is to have these people look down at us over their glasses (metophorically speaking) wagging their finger and telling us "but you'll have to provide news and speech content" - the implication being that we're poor helpless little darlings who wouldn't be able to cope.

Knowing that providing a news content during this temporary broadcast is somthing which helps us in our overall quest, the next decision is HOW we do it.

We could simply take a feed from INN or whoever as many stations would. However, while this would be soooooooo easy, we'd be stuck with longer, often very repetitive bulletins that we had no control over. And there would be timing issues (I'll come to that later).

We could simply subscribe to a "rip & read" service, where an existing news orginisation sends a fully written bulletin through every hour, all ready to read. That's another easy option, and we could have control of the timing.

But we want to be able to stand up and say that we did everything possible, so we've gone the whole hog, and are entirely producing our whole bulletins in-house - i.e. going off to the Gardai and other bodies to get info, taking individual facts by agreement from news agencies, and using these to write our own bulletins from scratch. Ultimately we intend to be able to stand up with our heads held high, knowing we have made the maximum effort.

No one is going to be able to look over their glasses at us on THIS issue next time round.

We try also while including the main stories that are newsworthy, to also include more interesting stuff from overseas that might not get an airing (enviromental, science etc). I aim to have at least one story per day that is both interesting, and not covered elsewhere in Ireland.

Finally, presentation. From the outset I have wanted to ensure that this news service is as undemanding on those who DON'T have a preference for it as humanly possible. Hence keeping the bulletins fairly short, having them presented "straight" thus cutting out time-wasting chatter, hence the planned policy of going immediatly to music on completion of the bulletin.

Also, and something I'm not aware of other stations doing, we "float" our news at the top of the hour. We will absolutely NOT chop a song to be on time for the hour (a practice I find abhorrent) so news instead may be at a minute to the hour, or on the hour, or a minute or so past.

So:

* some Phantom listeners want it
* it helps the licence fight, and takes away one stick "they" use to beat us with
* we're trying to do it well
* we've tried hard to make it sensitive and unobtrusive

and:

* Trust me. I mean well!


As I said, thanks again for airing your views. At least at Phantom you can have a meaningful discussion with the people who make decisions like this one, which is, I feel, part of the "phantom spirit".

Now, back to when I was bombed during the war . . . .

BrianD

Hi

The call for a news service is very strong. As you may be aware, we have a listener survey on the web site for listeners to provide feedback on what they would like to hear on air. 1000's of these forms have been complete and they desire to hear news and other speech elements is continuously expressed. I was quite surprised at this as I thought most people would like to hear back to back music.

However, Phantom FM is a radio station and not a CD jukebox and I suspect people want more from a radio station which accompanies them at home, on the bus, on the dart and as they walk ....

Licenced radio stations have a legal requirement to provide 20% news and current affairs. This is an expensive overhead and would be particularly difficult for a niche station such as Phantom should we achieve a licence. We want to demonstrate that quality not quantity is the key - short bursts of relevant info and current affairs. The reason why we have these awful nightly phone in shows and inane news bulletins.

Our goal at Phantom FM is to keep you up to date with the facts and if you need extended news coverage we suggest Newstalk 106 or Radio 1!

rOBeRt frETt

ok , so we have to compromise a few things in order for our beloved station to be a fully paid up member, i think the spirit of phantom, alices resturant, x fm, was always a young anti-establishment kinda gig, obviously that was the front these stations put out but the reality was a lot of people doing a lot of hard work, and now those inexperienced, anti-corporate, beer swillin' ugly, ugly monkeys......where was I, oh yeah,

my point is this, everyone involved in phantom wants to take the next step and secure the future of a great radio station, but on the other hand, the listeners don't want the reciepe to change (although, that sing-a-long news thing might just be crazy enough...), anycase, thread carefully, there are many 16 year old silly billies who will jump at the chance at cutting of your head, setting up thier own pirate station, having no news, sport, chat shows, website, streaming world wide radio stations- and they'll truely live up to your slogan, "music that matters" and at one tenth the expence.

now wheres that microphone!!

BrianD

I don't think that any of the stations in your post could be described as being "anti-establishment" now or in the past. Far from it! They were set up because diversity was not created by the introduction of licenced local radio. These stations had to face up to the establisment because of the lack of a licence but that's about the height of it!

Irish people do not like when things change. It seems to be a part of our psyche and it dosn't matter if the change is better or worse - we still look back on with rose tinted glasses on the past irrespective of whether it was good or bad, wishing it was back again etc. Many people were surprised by the introduction of news/traffic/weather on the station as it hadn't be there before. Obviously some like it some don't but we believe most do because in this case, you actually did ask for it!

The presence of news on the station is hardly going to create a new generation of pirate radio enthusiasts! Our music policy and attidude is still the same. In the long run, we hope that our news coverage will be more thought provoking and cover stories not generally covered in mainstream outlets and which of course are relevant to our audience.

In any case, lets keep this debate alive as your feedback is very important to us.

polarbelly

Originally posted by BrianD


Irish people do not like when things change. It seems to be a part of our psyche and it dosn't matter if the change is better or worse - we still look back on with rose tinted glasses on the past irrespective of whether it was good or bad, wishing it was back again etc.

bring back the punt!!!

i think the news is great! i dont particularly read up elsewhere and so while listening its nice to be kept up to date. its short and sweet too, which i think is excellent.

however, i guess i'd prefer if it was kinda 1, 6 and 9, rté tv style

James_M

Fair play to you, Steve and whoever else gets involved in the process.

I think there is a great stigma surrounding Phantom as a pirate station (against the system and all that). Thats all well and good but the BCI are not going to stand by and allow pirates to broadcast, judging by the recent mass shutdown.

Phantom has alway recognised this and made clear that it wants to get a licence. This is the only way to go. With a licence, the future of the station looks bright.

With this in mind, it makes great sense to make the station look attractive to the BCI (by including news content) who at the end of the day are the ones dishing (I use that term loosely) out the licences.

Besides if you're going to listen to Phantom, you may as well take the opportunity to find out whats going on in the world at the same time.

Wacker

I am also a fan of the news bullitins. I buy the Irish Times every day, but to be honest, all that really interests me in that is the letters and opinions. Sometimes the simplex too. But not so much the news itself. Phantoms news bullitins are nice and short, while kkeeping me informed, which is what I want.


On another topic, this has got to be the most rationally conducted debate I have ever seen on this forum, which is such a refreshing change.

BrianD

Debate is great and keep the comments coming and doesn't need to be confined to news programming...is having the weather useful ... traffic news? What other speech elements would you like to hear?

How is the music sounding? The specialist shows? Presentation style?

The station does cost money to run so we will have some sponsors coming on board. What would you view a sponsor advertiser on Phantom? Do you think that you would have a higher opinion of them because they are supporting Phantom?

Wacker, maybe we should introduce an on-air crossword...perhaps on the Two Petes...one pete can be down, the other accross!!!

Steve Conway

Originally posted by BrianD
one pete can be down, the other accross!!!

Sounds sick

I'm sure they'd go for it . . .

AmberPhantomFM

Hi Magpie,

It's good to hear some feedback on the news service...however I just want to pick up on a comment you made about leaving the news to the journalists and not DJs.

The news on Phantom is being specifically compiled and read by those people in the station with previous professional news experience.

Steve Conway was Mr News on Radio Caroline for many the long year and knows his news stuff better than pretty much anyone.

I am also a news journalist and worked as a reporter in the newsrooms of Radio Kilkenny, Midlands Radio 3, CKR FM and INN for quite a few years.

Given the combined experience of the Phantom FM "news team", I'd hope that ours are bulletins you can trust for accuracy and fairness. We work from a combination of primary sources (such as Garda Press) and wire services.

We are trying to keep the bulletins snappy and non-intrusive, while not patronising our listeners' with "news lite".

Anyway, thanks for the comments - they are always welcome!

Keep listening...

Amber

Fridays - midnight to 2am
(amber@phantomfm.com)

ZENER

I believe Phantom FM are set to spread their appeal to a wider audience and are to widen the music content by including Irish tradisionalmusic - fifties musicals soundtracks - music from the 60's, 70's and 80's and some chart pop thrown in for good measure.

Confirmation please ???

Steve Conway

No, that sounds more like the plans for Country 106.8 !!!

magpie

I was listening to a spot of Phantom yesterday and after the mellifluous tones of Pearl (hmm, can she read news? that would work... ) I was listening to a bit of the "Ye Olde Radio Archives Showwe", the one with all the clips of Nova etc. Anyway, I hadn't realised that Steve Conway had literally been airlifted off the sinking Radio Caroline. Now that's dedication.

Unfortunately I now picture Steve in a smashey and nicey jumper...mate!

++Fade to Bachman Turner Overdrive++

Aidan Lynch

Magpie,
You need to picture most of the Phantom folk in the Smashie and Nicey jumper, complete with the leather patches on the elbows.

And you thought the world of Phantom FM was all highly stylish, drinking champaign and eating caviar.... in reality it's dodgy jumpers and pot noodle. Sorry to burst your bubble!

And don't knock Bachman Turner Overdrive - I think they're fab!

P.

Pearl

Excuse me! I would like to publicly state that I do not own any jumpers with leather patches on the elbows and never have! I do my show every Sunday in a one-piece leather catsuit. Just ask Steve Conway.

BrianD

... just wait until we start the TV station!!

ZENER

Quote:
No, that sounds more like the plans for Country 106.8 !!!

Fact is that there is a demand for that music format because it's not well supported in Ireland. The likes of TTTR proved that some years back.

The truth about commercial radio is that it costs money to run - this money comes from advertisers/sponsors who have a target audience. More likely than not this target audience will not be spotty teenagers (unless they are selling Oxy 10!!!) with little disposable income. So ultimately the format Phantom adopts will be goverend by the financial people involved with the station in order to sell ad space. Anyone who disagrees with this is fooling themselves.

Tinky

polarbelly

Originally posted by tinky
Quote:
No, that sounds more like the plans for Country 106.8 !!!

Fact is that there is a demand for that music format because it's not well supported in Ireland. The likes of TTTR proved that some years back.

The truth about commercial radio is that it costs money to run - this money comes from advertisers/sponsors who have a target audience. More likely than not this target audience will not be spotty teenagers (unless they are selling Oxy 10!!!) with little disposable income. So ultimately the format Phantom adopts will be goverend by the financial people involved with the station in order to sell ad space. Anyone who disagrees with this is fooling themselves.

Tinky

ball wax....

phantom are going for a specialist license anyhow... catering for a special audience. if they were to change their path now, they'd lose any hope of getting the license in the first place and if they did afterwards they could face having their license taken away from them

magpie

Pearl.. have you considered putting some woolie elbow patches on the catsuit?

ZENER

Quote:
phantom are going for a specialist license anyhow... catering for a special audience. if they were to change their path now, they'd lose any hope of getting the license in the first place and if they did afterwards they could face having their license taken away from them


You mean like Today FM ?

Business is business . . when the chips are down we will see !!

Of course if Phantom are determined to obtain a licence to broadcast - and the best of luck with that - they need to stick to the guidelines as layed out by the IRTC with regards the technical issues while they have a temporary licence. Failure to adhere will see them go back to their pirate roots.

At this stage phone calls of the wrong type to the commision will not do them any favours !

Tinky

BrianD

Well technical issues are the least of our worries. Phantom has always had a very high technical standard in terms of the equipment used etc. and we continue to do so. OK, in the past we may not have had extensive coverage but that was more due to low powered transmitters as opposed to anything else.

The challenge for a niche station is to keep its costs down. If it can't it will need more revenue and ultimately to get that extra revenue it will start moving towards the centre.

ZENER

Quote:
Well technical issues are the least of our worries.

I would disagree with you there. The IRTC take a dim view of broadcasters who fail to keep rigs and equipment in spec and publish strict conditions to new licencees.

It's nice to see someone here being realistic about the financial end of running a radio station by the way.

Tinky

Achille

only change i've noticed in Phantom is that new quilted toilet roll.

mmm, smoooth.

SimonMaher

Hello all,

Ive kept out of this discussion for the past few days and have really enjoyed it I must say. Good points, argued eloquently on all sides. Keep it up please.

However, I have to take issue with Twinky at a number of the comments he has made.

First of all Tinky, I would ask you, if engaged in a debate such as this to pin your particular colours to the mast so to speak, and reveal your particular vested interest in Phantoms temporary licence stituation and your broadcasting involvement. Ill leave that one up to you.

The selective use of a quote from Brian D's post was disingenuous at best. You know just as well as anyone that he was stating that Phantoms Technical operation has always been to a high standard, and continues to be so. In terms of technical compliance, Phantom is at the same level as any other licenced station.

You seem convinced that Phantom (if given a full licence) will somehow change to fit the requirements of advertisers. Phantom has always been pitched at as broad an audience as possible within our chosen niche. For Phantom to move away from that would be both broadcasting and financial suicide. The basis of financial success for specialist stations such as Phantom is to absolutely focus on serving that niche, keeping its cost base low and not deviating from that focused path. If a station the size of Phantom was to choose to attack a larger, established player like FM104 or 98FM it would be bankrupted in a week. So, in essence, the only way that Phantom will work is by sticking to its speciality. And thats exactly what it will do, and it is from that market that Phantom will derive its income.

Just feel these clarifications were needed. If you need any further information Tinky then please don't hesitate to contact me via PM or Email.

Carry on

Regards,

Pete Reed
Phantom FM
reed@phantomfm.com

ZENER

Quote:
The challenge for a niche station is to keep its costs down. If it can't it will need more revenue and ultimately to get that extra revenue it will start moving towards the centre.

Quote:
So, in essence, the only way that Phantom will work is by sticking to its speciality. And thats exactly what it will do, and it is from that market that Phantom will derive its income.


Spot the difference anyone ???

SimonMaher

Tinky,

Selective use of context again. Nice bit of ignoring on the awkward points, very impressive.

The challenge of niche broadcasters is to keep costs down yes. Phantom will keep its costs down in order to survive. Thats what the posting says. Others have moved towards the centre because they have failed to do that. Others have kept their costs down and thrived. Can you see into the future now?

Regards,

Pete Reed
Phantom FM

magpie

Speaking of equipment, you've got me curious now....

What set up do you use at Phantom? do you have decks/cd decks, or do you run everything from mp3?

Also, do you keep copies of all your programming, and if so in what format?

JackD

Speaking of equipment, you've got me curious now....

Me too. Your signal is very strong here in Meath what sort of TX, Antenna and height have you got ?

SimonMaher

Originally posted by JackD
Me too. Your signal is very strong here in Meath what sort of TX, Antenna and height have you got ?

Will get back to you on the transmission bit later on. Just have to get the science bit from our engineering boffins!

In terms of studio, the programming in the live hours is played mainly from CD, with promotions, voiceovers etc played from MiniDisc. Turntable and cassette output etc is also available but infrequently used. Overnight programming uses a computer playout system with music files etc stored as WAV files. Audio is then smoothed and processed before being sent out on air.

All of the stations output has to be recorded for the BCI and made available to them on request. Our programming is recorded on to long play 300 minute video tapes (giving us 10 hours between changes).

Visits can be arranged.*

Regards,

Pete Reed
Phantom FM
reed@phantomfm.com






* biscuits will be required to gain entry. Plain biscuits are not considered adequate.

ZENER

To BrianD & Pete Reed:

Having looked back over the posts I replied to I don't believe I have taken anything out of context.

BrianD made 2 points in his post on 3rd Nov. The first point I criticized is his attitude towards technical compliance with the license. The truth is Phantom was a pirate station. Technical compliance would be to turn off the TX and apply for the license before broadcasting so the "high standard" you claim to have adopted is irrelevant and unsubstantiated .

His second point I applauded. He appears to have a realistic view of the commercial side of broadcasting.

I accept your stance of staying away to let the debate continue, but I must question the intelligence/attitude of some of your "listeners". The narrow mindedness of the replies seems to be at odds with the opinions of BrianD. Why not interject sooner and comment on the route the discussion was taking - or did you really expect to just sit back and soak up the praise !!

The comment by polarbelly about the specialist audience is a fair one and I believe my reply about TodayFM was relevant as they changed their format shortly after coming on air due to financial pressures from advertisers ! No "out of context" there !

With regard to the pinning my colours comment, was this meant to berate me as a flamer in this thread ? I joined a discussion group and am entitled to my point of view. The thread was turning into a back slapping excercise with no real objectiveness in the comments and I believe I introduced a touch of reality to the proceedings.

I have explained above that I did not selectively quote BrianD and take it out of context, I replied to both his points in the post. I am not "convinced" of anything about Phantom, having been a part of the pirate scene in the early 80's and being a avid follower of all things radio I think my point was a valid one. Commercial radio costs money, please don't tell me you are in it to make everyone but yourself happy. You promote a warm fuzzy feeling about the station and thats great listener loyalty is obviously very important, but your listeners appear oblivious to reality.

If memory serves me right FM104 was originally called Rock104 or something similar and promised to do what you do, again the precious JNLR figures, which all advertisers pay attention to, dictated that they were going in the wrong direction and they changed and became the most listened to station in Dublin. The fact is, whether you like it or not you are competing with them and 98FM for advertising revenue and time will tell how successful you are.

In the meantime I wish you every success in your application for a license.

Tinky

BrianD

Tinky, I may have misunderstood when you spoke of technical issues I assumed that you were referring to the actual technology of broadcasting - transmitters, processors, etc. All our equipment is up to spec and well maintained so as I said it is not an issue for Phantom now or in the past.

I din't fully understand what you mean by:

Technical compliance would be to turn off the TX and apply for the license before broadcasting so the "high standard" you claim to have adopted is irrelevant and unsubstantiated

There was no transmitter on air before we started this particular project nor was there any on air for some months prior to Oct 18.

In reality most of the compliance and standards here are monitored by ComReg while the BCI look after the content end of operations. This is where the real challenge of broadcasting is - content and the commercials. All our content is logged (on VHS) as per BCI regulations

Radio is a low cost medium and a station that both sounds good and complies with technical standards can be put together relatively cheaply.

It wouldn't be fair to compare what Phantom does with the short lived Rock 104 format. It is difficult to explain but in essence the ROck 104 music policy and philospohy was very different to what Phantom has done in the past and is now doing. Their format was largely attracting a male listener and was a big turn off to many large advertisers. At the same time Rock 104 had big overheads in the form of staff, premises, advertising, news programming etc. on the same scale as their competitors at 98FM who were successfully pulling in 20-44 year females that the advertisers love. Had Rock 104 had a smaller cost base they could have stuck with the format longer.

We will be competing with all other radio stations for a share of the advertising cake but we will not be competing directly against them. We are serving a niche that is not well served by other stations in the market. In recent years, the media has been fragmenting with more media serving small audiences (look how many variants there are of MTV compared with the single MTV Europe that started 15 years ago). Therefore advertisers have to buy accross a range of media to reach the total audience. Phantom will get a slice of that advertising in proportion to it's market share but it can not operate like the likes of 98 and 104. We must have low costs.

polarbelly

Originally posted by tinky
The fact is, whether you like it or not you are competing with them and 98FM for advertising revenue and time will tell how successful you are.

i'd have to disagree with you there.... the overall market for radio listeners is a broad one. phantom fm would be/are aiming at specific segment of this market (ie. those who listen to indie/alternative/rock music) this market is not catered for by 98fm or fm104 (with the exception of the rock show on sunday evenings) and therefore it allows a niche market for advertisers that cannot be found on the more mainstream stations.

this is good for advertisers for two reasons...
1) they'll get their message direct to their target market (ie. indie/alternative/rock music listeners within whatever age group, i dont have phantoms listeners survey details) ... there's no point for a company to advertise on one of the larger stations if their target market isnt being covered

2) because phantom wont be appealling to as many people as fm104 and 98fm etc costs to advertise on their station will be much less.

an advertiser will come out with maximum exposure for their cash... everyone in marketing's/advertising's aim

so basically i reckon that ph wont be competing with these radio stations for advertising revenue. however, of course only time will tell how successful phantom end up

just to say i recall reading an article in the times? independent? about phantom fm which said they estimated their listener base to be approx 30,000 people. obviously because it was a pirate station at the time they couldnt be involved in the JNLR but if their estimates were accurate it could be a very very lucrative place for businesses to advertise

BrianD

Anyway, as I said the technical issues are largely irrelevant. I can never understand why large sections of license applications are filled with technical specifications and lists of equipment. Minimum standards exist and are enforced.

Content is king and it would be great if we could back onto the subject of programming ...

magpie

Brian Content is king and it would be great if we could back onto the subject of programming

I think you badly need a New Wave show.

ZENER

Polarbelly:

I accept and to a large extent agree with most if not all the points you make in your post. The one thing that cannot be disputed is the strong support that Phantom have gathered around them. This is positive and bodes well for their success in the future. Content IS king . . no doubt about it !!

I disagree with your point about Phantom not being in competition with the big guns for advertisers. Most companies have advertising budgets and the media compete with each other for a share of that budget therefore Phantom are in competition with these stations.

Quote:
There was no transmitter on air before we started this particular project nor was there any on air for some months prior to Oct 18.

Not sure about the meaning of this maybe you can clarify it. Phantom, I think, broadcast on 91.6 until the commission requested they shut down, is that not correct ?

Quote:
98FM who were successfully pulling in 20-44 year females

Mmm . . .must send in a demo tape !!

Anyway guys it's been interesting debating with you and I wish you every success for the future and heres hoping the business plan is successful. I have an assignment to prepare before Nov 9th so I'd better get on with it, maybe I'll drop back in afterwards.

Tinky

magpie

...oh, and are garibaldi biscuits acceptable?