IBB reliability

flogen

I just found out that I should be able to get an IBB connection, but from looking at other posts, it seems alot of people arent very happy with them.

I gather the connection is crap for gaming, but that wouldnt really bother me. What are they like for downloads etc.
On paper they have the best connection, a good price, no cap and doesnt interfere with the phone... but I know that doesnt mean theyre the best.

Should I hold out for NTL?

Flogen

Mutant_Fruit

they are grand for downloading so long as you don't get ripwave... that has a flexible download cap. e.g. ppl who use it a lot will be asked to lessen usage.

But the LOS product (home breeze?) is completely unlimited. I have home breeze plus and have never had really bad download speeds for longer than about 3 hours, and over the last 2 months, i'd say its been a lot less than 24 hours of bad download speeds.

Gaming should improve supposedly... so we can but hope, but download speeds are blazingly fast at the moment <450k (currently getting Counter-strike CZ at 52kb's)

Originally posted by Mutant_Fruit

Gaming should improve supposedly... so we can but hope,

Really? what are u basing this on?

but download speeds are blazingly fast at the moment <450k (currently getting Counter-strike CZ at 52kb's)

pm me a torrent




DL speeds are generally quite good on home breeze so if ur not into gaming go for this option.

flogen

cheers and thanks, I think i'll go for it.

and i am into gaming, but net gaming isnt a big deal for me. although if the speeds are decent I would have a go

btw, can I hook up xbox live with the breeze package?

Flogen

Pepe LeFrits

IBB has been utterly useless the past 2 weeks for me (webpages take forever to load) so i'll be ringing them tommorrow. Twas pretty poor before that as well though.

incubus

same situation as kif


ringing them doesnt do much good either...:rolleyes:

Dr4gul4

yea still findin it very weird no in fairness we dont use it 4 gaming at all, just downloads and there really is just 2 of us who do dat

The speed i find terrible i've heard mutant fruit sayin he can get linux distro from it over nite, at about 56KB\s

Personally i've never seen speeds over 15 KB|s and we're on 3 rock on the 1 meg package



This mornin in the space of an hour i saw our pings go from 500ms to 3000+ ms i mean WTF and this was in the spaceof 30 mins, with nothin extra running

Personally im kinda happy cos it's uncapped but the speeds a joke i mean we cant even browse the web !!!!

D.



holy crap i almost 4 got the biggest thing of all....the speed spikes like crazy all the time im runnin a bandwidth monitor on our firewall and it's givin me figures of 22KB\s incomming and dat to 2 machines with several d/l's running, dats 22KB\s over all, and then it spikes down to 12KB\s, then up to 36KB\s where's my 120KB\s and done go givin me **** abotu not being able to reach it i'd be ****in happy with 100KB\s not 1/3 of it


Sort it out chaz


D>

Mutant_Fruit

Personally i've never seen speeds over 15 KB|s and we're on 3 rock on the 1 meg package

ever think of ringing them? I did when i had ping problems.

Gaming should improve supposedly... so we can but hope,

They are upgrading their equipment to a new technology... and pings are typically in the region of about 7ms or maybe a tiny bit more to google.com during peak hours. Currrently available as a 100eur a month, uncapped residential offering (1meg/1meg). A bit pricy, but it should be tasty when it gets cheaper.

Chaz

Mutant fruit ..... there was no mention that there was such a product. I simply posted a question on that thread to feel the water IF there were some of you that would be interested in a high end type gaming res package .... nothing more.

Kevok is likely to change over and see - im dealing with him now.

Please dont make assumptions on 1 post.

tek

Ohhhhhh my GoD /me gonna sell all /me grannies in order to get this package ,im talkin about the high-end offer off IBB
That is so f**king sweet. Im here over in dnc cafe and staff is goin crazy tbh .Only one but Why or why its limited to those areas .I f**king hate Tallaght tbh.I guess ill have to move to knackers area in order to get it unless they (IBB) change their mind and offer it in Blanch

Mutant_Fruit

oh sorry, i thought you said there was such a product coming out. i misread the post.

Lex_Diamonds

With IBB its the luck of the draw as to whether you get a good connection or not. Definitely a risk signing up with them.

Canaboid

Originally posted by tek
I f**king hate Tallaght tbh.I guess ill have to move to knackers area in order to get it unless they (IBB) change their mind and offer it in Blanch

Blanch isn't a "knackers area" ?

flogen

hmmm, this is a tough decision... i dont want to sign up and then have to put up with a **** connection for a year.. but i could take the chance and it could be a great connection.

the thing is, the package is only €35 a month, which is only €5 more than the eircom or esat anytime packs, and theres no time or info cap on IBB, and a chance of a very fast connection.

choices.....damn choices.

thanks for your help anyway, at least i can make a more informed decision now.

Flogen

Mutant_Fruit

if you;'d care to look here... and noticve the bit that says... "unrestricted uploading and downloading"

mrbump

Well I got IBB installed last Feb and all was well till they did some maintenence work on the RTE tower (which I'm off) last april/may. after that the service has been down more times then not I'm talking crazy speeds of < 1 ****ing k a sec and Im supposed to me 1 mb, the last 2 months it has been practically usable my 56k modem is tons better. I have been on to their tech support team more times then I care to remember over the months and they have yet to send out an engineer although they said earlier this week that they would. I have been monitoring the connection speed and ping rates which can be anywhere up to 1500 with timeouts but averages around 200 - 800 most of the time. no doubt its excellent when it works but its basically a lucky dip as far as I'm concerned as the speed jumps all over the kip.

Funnilly enough I recommended this service to 5 friends when I got it first and they all have decent connections although 3 of them are off the Tree rock transmitter which seems to be the business, and the other 2 are off RTE (which I can see perfectly from my bedroom window as Im in clonskeagh) and live on my street and have had few problems, and before you ask my hardware is fine nothing wrong.

So I await the engineer to come over and have a look at the system to try and resolve the issue.

My advice is to anyone getting this service that you ask for a written confirmation that if it's not up to scratch within 1 month after you get it installed that they refund your installation fee.
Tell them that you have heard that the service is a bit sketchy and will only consider getting in the system if they can gurantee that it will work. they might agree to this because if the service keeps going the way it is they won't have many customers left very soon.

quank

I f**king hate Tallaght tbh.I guess ill have to move to knackers area in order to get it unless they (IBB) change their mind and offer it in Blanch [/B]

u live in blanch? me 2..... im going to try ring them over the mid term and see can i get a test....
i want to use it mainly for gaming, but now im not sure...
alot of you guys are saying its sh1te for gaming...
i play cs mainly... what kinda pings is it?
currently i have a 56k modem with a 28k line since eircom ripped me off when my dad wanted 2 lines, not 2 halves, eejits!
anyway, i get sometimes a good ping of around 200-250, dats VERY good for a 28k, but when , i mean, IF i can get IBB, what ping would i expect?

Dr4gul4

in my case n e where from 30ms to 3000 ms DEpending

Good luck !!!



D.

tek

Lets not forget that what Chaz is talkin about is a complently different experience in terms of pings ( fingers crossed tbh ) As i understood its different kit too and yeah its only for those who r willin to fork out 100 quid in monthky payments
Tbh i personnaly think its a very sweet offer so lets hope they r goin to bring it over to Blanch

chabsey

Ripwave claims to be unlimited downloads.

Mutant, where did you hear that they will ask you to lessen your downloads? I ask because we've signed up and I asked them about this at least three times. Typical conversation:

ME: Is it really unlimited?

THEM: Sure is.

ME: As in 'really' really? I ask cause of Netsource's so-called no limits which acutally has a limit if you go on a downloading spree.

THEM: The only limit is your harddrive size!

ME: So 100gig a month is ok?

THEM: That's fine.


I actually said 100gig to them and they weren't flustered.
Now I'll be nowhere near that amount (esp. if the speeds are crap!) but I want the freedom to suddenly jump to 100gig if I want.

So, am I dreamin' or is it really unlimited?

Mutant_Fruit

if you;d care to look here and in the faqs halfwaty down the page.....

Quote:
Does a download limit apply?
There is no download limit with Ripwave. However, to ensure fair and equitable access to all users, a fair usage policy will apply. Irish Broadband reserves the right to contact those users with excessive usage to request adherance to reasonable limits.

Unquote

chabsey

Hmmm....so 100gig is beneath the fair usage limit? That sounds ok for me then.

Mutant_Fruit

Why did you go for Ripwave instead of the LOS product? Did you have no LOS? Cos for an extra 5 eur, you get 512upload, AND completely unmetered, un-fair-usaged, uncapped service too!

chabsey

Well I went for it cause they assured me repeatedly that the DL limit was not there. That FAQ on their site wasn't there when I signed up, or at least there was no mention of the 'fair usage' thing.

They've not installed it yet though so I might kick up some crap about the usage. It's not that I'm a DL junkie, but if given no limits then I intented to take advantage of that on occasion, but not all the time.

The LOS thing is too much like hard work, sticking things onto my chimney makes me weep tears of pure blood. My chimney is like my second child, tall, weird-shaped head and made of bricks. I love it. No way am I sticking an antennae on top of it. Where would the birdies sit?

Ripwave

Originally posted by chabsey
Ripwave claims to be unlimited downloads.
...
THEM: The only limit is your harddrive size!

ME: So 100gig a month is ok?

THEM: That's fine.

I actually said 100gig to them and they weren't flustered.
Now I'll be nowhere near that amount (esp. if the speeds are crap!) but I want the freedom to suddenly jump to 100gig if I want.

So, am I dreamin' or is it really unlimited?

512*60*60*24*30 = 1,327,104,000 Kbits/month = 165G (more or less).

But RipWave is a 40:1 contention ratio service, so that's 165G between up to 40 people (assuming the system is 100% utilised 100% of the time). If you try to download 100G, you'll be taking it out of MY share, and I'm not going to be happy about that, and neither are the other 39 people you're stealing from.

Mutant_Fruit

**coughs** stealing? He is on 40-1 contention, true. But he is entitled to download as much as he wants on his connection. If he wants to download at full speed 24x7, he can. He;s not stealing off anyone, its his right to utilize his connectino fully, as it is the right of any other ripwave user. He;s not taking anyone's share.


EDIT: but if he is deemed to be ruining the service supplied to other people, then he will be capped.

chabsey

Well then, afore ye call me a thief and a blackguard I think IBB should train their staff not to lie to customers.

If I ask and am assured repeatedly that it is my right and my privilige to download 100 gig a month, then you can be damn sure I will (on occasion) download 100 gig a month and care not a whit for those other 39 people.

However, if it transpires that I have been lied to then the bone thou has to pick lies not with me, but with IBB staff.


EDIT: Thank you Mutant, for underlining the fact that calling me a thief is a little out of line.

chabsey

Actually Ripwave, what are your calculations based on?

I get the 24 and the 30, but the other parts?

I'm concerned because if you get 165 gig, divide it by 40 you get a little over 4 gig! Obviously not all the users will want or need their full limit but still, if it really equates to a 4 gig limit (above which you get a warning perhaps?!!) then it really is not a very good service at all.

Ripwave

Originally posted by chabsey
Actually Ripwave, what are your calculations based on?

I get the 24 and the 30, but the other parts?/B]

512K BITS per seconds, 60 seconds per minte, 60 minutes per hour.

I'm concerned because if you get 165 gig, divide it by 40 you get a little over 4 gig! Obviously not all the users will want or need their full limit but still, if it really equates to a 4 gig limit (above which you get a warning perhaps?!!) then it really is not a very good service at all.

????? Not paying much attention, are you? RADSL is 48:1.

Ripwave

Originally posted by Mutant_Fruit
**coughs** stealing? He is on 40-1 contention, true. But he is entitled to download as much as he wants on his connection.

If he wants to download at full speed 24x7, he can. He;s not stealing off anyone, its his right to utilize his connectino fully, as it is the right of any other ripwave user. He;s not taking anyone's share.

Yeah, all rights, no responsibilities. I don't need, or want 100G a month. But **** it, if some bollix is going to **** the service over by downloading more crap than he has time to watch or listen too, why not, I'll just set my system up to suck whatever crap it can find, 24x7 too. I might as well, the system will be practically unusable for day to day use if a couple of other users decide to be pricks about it.

He can hardly complain if I do this, after all it's "my right" to use my connection fully. I have just as much right to screw up the service for him as he does to screw it up for me. (see "tragedy of the commons" for historical references. See dictionary references for "Malthusian" while you're at it).

Mutant_Fruit

He can hardly complain if I do this, after all it's "my right" to use my connection fully.

It is your right... and this is what will happen...

EDIT: but if he is deemed to be ruining the service supplied to other people, then he will be capped.

and thats my imput to this thread.. i'm signing off.

EDIT: i looked up Malthusian. nice reference

Capt'n Midnight

Hmmm 165GB / 40 = 4GB = eircom cap !

Just a reminder on IBB reliability - if the RIP wave product on 2.4GHz is going over 100mW EIRP then the reliability will go through the floor when they are forced to adopt the CURRENT LEGAL limits* (in the USA power limits are 40 times the limits here and EIRP limits are even looser)

*this would also apply to the 3.5GHz version - but the power limits there would depend on the license and there would be less inteference anyway...

Ripwave

Originally posted by chabsey
Well then, afore ye call me a thief and a blackguard I think IBB should train their staff not to lie to customers.

You weren't lied too - it's not their fault that they don't make you site an IQ test before letting you subscribe to the service. The service is capable of delivering 100G, and they haven't implemented any hard cap. But it's a shared service, and if you try to take 100G, you'll a) fail, and b) piss off lots of other people.

If I ask and am assured repeatedly that it is my right and my privilige to download 100 gig a month, then you can be damn sure I will (on occasion) download 100 gig a month and care not a whit for those other 39 people..

You didn't ask if it's "your right and your privelege" to download 100G. You asked if it's (technically) possible, and you were told that yes, it is. And that IBB don't impose any hard cap.

However, if it transpires that I have been lied to then the bone thou has to pick lies not with me, but with IBB staff.

You weren't lied to, and you'll be the source of the problem, not IBB. if you're a RipWave customer, I won't be able to pick your house out by looking for an aerial on your roof, but that won't change the fact that you'll be stealing from the €30 worth of bandwidth that I'm paying for. You're more than welcome to use the Gig or two that I don't expect to use this month, but if you take the Gig or two that I do want/need to use, then yes, you're a thief.

EDIT: Thank you Mutant, for underlining the fact that calling me a thief is a little out of line.

Trying to suck 100G on a 512K 40:1 contended service is more than a little out of line.

cmdrpaddy

you are not stealing you are using the bandwidth you payed for.

Mutant_Fruit

**hopes this isn;t turning into a flamewar**

Here are the facts.

1) Its contended at 40-1.
2) He was told he can download 100gigs a month
3) There is a variable limit on the connection
4) They can impose it if he starts abusing the service

Those are the facts, he was just hypothisising (i wish i could spell...) about what would happen if he wanted to download that much.

THEM: The only limit is your harddrive size!

There is no download limit with Ripwave. However, to ensure fair and equitable access to all users, a fair usage policy will apply. Irish Broadband reserves the right to contact those users with excessive usage to request adherance to reasonable limits.

Next, Wireless is not like ADSL, all contention is done right in their offices. Therefore, bandwidth can be spread evenly among customers no matter Where the customers are based. So technically, if they wish, IBB could have 80 people connetced, and each will be contending with no-one (assuming IBB have bandwidth for 80 people running at full speeds).

but if you take the Gig or two that I do want/need to use, then yes, you're a thief.

So basically you;re saying that by accidenlt going over a limit that doesn't offically exist, you're a thief? That is more than a bit harsh. If you can find written documented evidance of a hard cap, then please post it, and we will all obey it to the letter. But if anyone wants to download 10 gigs (more than twice their download cap by your reckoning) they can.

rob1891

It doesn't matter what a IBB sales person or whoever says to you, when you sign up for the product you sign a 5+ page contract. Amongst other things it says that excessive use will have consequences (sorry I don't have a copy in front of me). Excessive isn't defined, I'm sure you could argue that one in the courts if you were so inclined.

There's only one contract there, you can sign it or go somewhere else, I doubt they care losing a customer who has expressed interest in using as much bandwidth as possible!

Capt'n Midnight

Just wondering - could you use Ethereal etc. to see who the hog is ?

Ripwave

Originally posted by Capt'n Midnight
Hmmm 165GB / 40 = 4GB = eircom cap !

Eircom (and UTV and IOL) have a 48:1 contention ration for that same 165G per month - that's about 3.5G per customer per month. Anyone who uses 8G (in the case of UTV or IOL) is doing so at the expense of other users (or users who haven't yet signed up, at this point in the story).

I went for RipWave rather than DSL because the "minimum contract" cost of €480 is still lower than the current special offer for any of the RADSL offerings, and because I want to support a service that offers genuine competition to eircom. I can also bring my RipWave unit to friends and neighbours homes and demonstrate broadband in their homes, on their own computers. I would have been quite happy to sign up for RipWave even if it had a 3G cap, because that's plenty for "ordinary" use (which is why residential services at 40/50:1 contention are pretty standard). I have no time for parasites who insist that they have the "right" to suck every last byte out of the system - they're on a par with spammers, who have abused the "right" to send free e-mail to the extent that e-mail has become a sewer.

SkepticOne

I think 'stealing' is rather an emotive word. The important thing is that if you take up the service you are authorising IBB to take action if they feel you are using up too much bandwith. This decision will be at their discretion.

If you aren't happy with this, don't sign up. If you sign up and push their resources to the limit, then don't complain if they no longer require you as a customer. No one will be interested. It is a private business arrangement between you and them.

tek

cant help it but to agree with Ripwav0r
/respect tbh

Ripwave

Originally posted by Mutant_Fruit
So basically you;re saying that by accidenlt going over a limit that doesn't offically exist, you're a thief?

Trying to download 100G a month isn't "accidentally going over a limit".

If you can find written documented evidance of a hard cap, then please post it, and we will all obey it to the letter.

There isn't a hard cap - that doesn't change the fact that you don't need a degree in theology to recognize what constitutes "unreasonable" behaviour on a service with a 40:1 contention ratio.

But if anyone wants to download 10 gigs (more than twice their download cap by your reckoning)

I never said that 4G was a "download cap" - I said it's a "fair share". And I would regularly use less than 2 gig a month, and I don't care who uses the remaining 2 Gig (though I'd prefer that they use it at 4AM, when it's a fair bet that I won't be impacted).

rob1891

If you sign up and push their resources to the limit, then don't complain if they no longer require you as a customer.

And they don't need to use bandwidth overuse as a way of getting rid of you. Contract says no services and no transmittion of copyrighted material. I'd challenge any home user to push 60GB of legitimate matieral in a 1 month period.

Ripwave

Originally posted by cmdrpaddy
you are not stealing you are using the bandwidth you payed for.

He didn't "pay for the bandwidth" - he paid for access to a shared service with a 40:1 contention ratio. But if he screws over ever other user, then there won't be a service for anyone to use after the 2nd or 3rd month.

(I mentioned "the tragedy of the commons" in another post - you might find the reference "Netsource" easier to understand).

Ripwave

Originally posted by SkepticOne
I think 'stealing' is rather an emotive word.

When you're using a contended service "100G" is an emotional word (or phrase, if you prefer)!

Maggie Thatcher said "There is no such thing as society, just people." She was wrong - if there was no society, no way of sharing resources, none of us could afford roads or schools or hospitals.

Or broadband.

SkepticOne

These discussions seem to occur again and again.

I agree with Ripwave. In a shared bandwidth situation (this includes all residential broadband services) the ISP has an obligation to insure that the a decent quality of service is experienced by the vast bulk of their customers.

One way is to introduce a hard cap and the other way is to monitor overall usage and curb excessive use in the small number that degrade the service.

I prefer the latter as it means that non-technical users won't be put off and these people are unlikely to be heavy users in any case.

If a voluntary group of people were to get to get together and share a leased line, for example, then some measure of fair sharing would be required. Those who hog the connection would have to be dealt with by the group. The situation here under discussion is no different.

Mutant_Fruit

Fact: The top 10% of users generate about 50% of internet traffic.

chabsey

????? Not paying much attention, are you? RADSL is 48:1. [/B]

Mmmm....48:1 isn't what their flyer says, it says 40:1.


Ripwave you seem to have taken offense at something I've said (100 gig perhaps?) and I'm not sure why.
As someone else said, 100 gig is excessive and was a number, plucked at random by me to illustrate to them that I, if given the freedom, might on occasion go crazy and download lots. Not so much that I don't have the time to use/watch/listen/whatever to it, but more than 4 gig I would think (Hey, maybe not.....I've never had the service before so how can I know?!)
So, I asked (and I feel like I should make this clear as you've claimed they didn't lie to me) if, and these are almost my exact words:

"If I download say, 100 gig a month then there won't be a phone call from you guys to say stop?"

They assured me repeatedly that no phone calls would happen, no cap, no limit would be placed on the line. I then said:

"But I've read about this crowd called Netsource who also claimed that and then throttled the speed on high usage customers. Do you guys throttle or limit or otherwise suddenly back down from offering so-called 'no limits' when someone downloads lots?"

Again I was assured that the only limit imposed was one I'd impose myself (ie. my HDD size). The person I talked to actually said that I could download 24 hours a day, 7 days a week without hassle! NOTE: WITHOUT HASSLE.

NOW....here's the thing, before you run out to your stables and saddle up your high horse or otherwise polish that soapbox of yours....I do not want to download 100 gig a month, I can't think of what the hell I'd need that would constitute 100 gig a month and I haven't got the time to bother downloading 100 gig a month.

My point was and always has been that if they claim I can (WITHOUT THEM HASSLING ME) then I will feel nice and free, no guilt and no compulsion to stop downloading when I hit, say, 10 gig. You understand?

I've learned a lot reading this thread as I don't normally have time to read or understand half of the technology behind this stuff. I for instance didn't know that there was a 165 gig limit on a line per month and that's what the other 39 people were 'contending' for. I thought it was a case of 'get what you can while you can' .

So, was I lied to? Yes.
Why? Cause they told me (3 times, two different people) that there was no limit and NO PENALTY for downloading like crazy.
Is there a limit? No, not technically.
Is there a penalty for excessive use? Yes <---- There's the lie.

Und dat is all I have to say about that.

chabsey

In a shared bandwidth situation (this includes all residential broadband services) the ISP has an obligation to insure that the a decent quality of service is experienced by the vast bulk of their customers.

I absolutely agree. However, if it's to be assumed that Eircom, Esat, UTV etc etc. all advertise their services with a download limit imposed (for most residential customer setups) to illustrate that very obligation to keeping the quality of the service high. Isn't it a little bit stupid to advertise a similar service as having no download limit when in actuality it's the exact same limit, maybe even half of what other people are offering?


If it's just to get more customers then they should expect quite a few annoyed downloaders hassling them.

I wonder what would happen if you went on a mad download spree during the free 7 day test period they give you. Would they keep schtum and be thinking to themselves ' Wait until this guy is signed on properly, we'll suffer his excessive use for 7 days then slam the little bastard when he's tied to 12 months'?

Also, I wonder if someone's usage went something like this:

January: 3 gig
Feb: 3 gig
March: 2 gig
April: 8 gig
May: On holidays in the Maldives, get bitten by a shark, lose a toe.
June: 2 gig
July: 24 gig
August: 3 gig
etc.
etc.

I wonder would they freak out come July or would they just think that it was an unusual month for the customer and leave him/her alone?

Mutant_Fruit

I'd challenge any home user to push 60GB of legitimate matieral in a 1 month period.

I take that challange! I am currently a beta tester for a new company that are starting up. They basically do "streaming games". A game can be up to 550 megs to buffer, and when you play it, you are constantly downloading/uploading (mostly downloading). I can typically waste several gigs per game i test, and i;d do one or 2 (sometimes 3) a week.

I see nothing wrong in that, as i will probably be using this company when they become officially opened aswell! That means in order to play any games, i'm going to be using several gigs a month, at least.

rob1891

Mutant, that's clearly a job you are doing (I hope they pay you!), not acting as a home user. My point was that the majority of home users who transfer large amounts of data are violating their terms of service in ways other than excessive use.

From what's been said here, it doesn't sound like IBB really care how much bandwidth you are using, which is nice to hear but I'd take it with a pinch of salt. If they ever do try to kick you off the service for excessive use I'd hope you would take them to the courts. I doubt other users would though, because what makes them heavy users is filesharing, and distributing anything copyrighted is breaking the contract, so why argue. (was netsource ever taken to the courts?)

Rob

Ripwave

Originally posted by chabsey
Mmmm....48:1 isn't what their flyer says, it says 40:1.

Learn to read, Chabsey. Ripwave is 40:1, RADSL is 48:1.

I'm not going to waste any more time replying to you, you're not worth the effort.