SKY - Twice the fun...?

okonski

SKY - Twice the fun...?
Now that SKY have let us join the world of having an additional box and card as an addition to the standard subscription ('mirroring' the main card), is there anyone having the same problem I am...? - and Sky Plus users don't have this issue.

When I bought my Digibox it was many years ago, and I paid full retail for it... something like IR£230 or so. and we didn't get the connection discounts that UK users got for keeping the box connected to a phone line. Anyway, been with them all that time and with Sjy Plus now appearing, they extended the ability for us to have an extra card. I took the opportunity to purchase a 2nd user Digibox on eBay and fitted my dish with a twin LNB, it works fine and I called Sky to request an additional card for my account.

The card arrived and I asked for it to be turned on - WHAT A CARRY ON! First qestion was 'is it conected to your phone line'? I answered no - its in the kids bedroom, and if they want to phone they can use their mobile. I'm then told that to be turned on, I must have BOTH my Digiboxes attached to the SAME telephone line. I explained that as I didn't get ANY discount from them, either for purchase or install of my first OR second box, and don;t want Box Office, the connection is not wanted or even required.

Whilst I was happy to pay the extra fee for the 2nd card, for them to state that I must have both boxes connected to a 'working phione line' was perverse, especially as I didn't need the phone line for the first card!!

Is anyone in the same situation, or before I take this matter up with COMREG, this seems that their onerous conditions are making my right to choose an entertainment supplier an impossible one. (Add to that the discrimination factor - I'm seriously considering dumping my home line as we all use our mobiles, and eircom are getting a monrthly rental for nothing).

Is there a way round this - or is COMREG the only way forward?

byte

That is the rules of "mirror subscription" I'm afraid. They request that both boxes are connected to same line so that one of the boxes doesn't get moved to a different house. There is no way out of it, and I doubt if Comreg can help.

okonski

Obviously it isn't a 'mirror subscription; my original sub has no requirement for a phone connection - it never had. The second box, is supposedly to mirror the first - but it will not, it will be the tail wagging the dog - the use of a second box will require changed to be made to the first! This isn't cricket - and if Sky won;t play ball, I'll just kill all the extra channels and return to the basic service. sure in the scale of things it's no big deal - but they get enough of my money already, and as it's the piper who calls the tune, I'm happy to vote with my wallet and just run an extra bit of co-ax from RF2 instead.

Owenw

I had a discussion like this with a dealer and came to the conclusion that a couple of temporary phone extensions to the 2 boxes will do to finish the installation & 'marry' the cards with the boxes.

Once done simply unplug the phone cables roll them up and keep them in a safe place in case Sky check the boxes are still in your house, which will probably be in 3-4 years time when the next sky viewing cards come out.

Unless you are paying full whack for the second subscription then it is a Mirror Sub. and having a phone line plugged in is part of the agreement terms.

Out of curiosity, do Sky insist on the phone line being plugged in for new installations nowadays?

Neither of my boxes ever had a phone line and I was never hassled about it by sky.

donhughberto

I just got a second box connected and this is most worrying! I have a first box down stairs and miles from phone line but i have second connected to my internet line in the bedroom.

watty

Of course you can have a 2nd box on a sub, and one sub or two.

BUT

If you want TWO subs, and one at a discount, sky call this a "mirror sub". They do regularly ask boxes on a "mirror" sub to Phone home and they MUST report the same CLI. Otherwise after 3 months or so Sky will disable the 2nd "mirror" sub.

If you don't want both boxes on phone line, then have one FTA and one on sub, or two full price subs.

Sky's attidute and contidions are perfectly reasonable IN THIS CASE, They don't make you have the discount, but if you want the discount then you have to abide by the anti-cheat mechanism, or else lots of "lads" would "sell" cut price subs to their mates.

okonski

Originally posted by watty
If you don't want both boxes on phone line, then have one FTA and one on sub, or two full price subs.

Sky's attidute and contidions are perfectly reasonable IN THIS CASE, They don't make you have the discount, but if you want the discount then you have to abide by the anti-cheat mechanism, or else lots of "lads" would "sell" cut price subs to their mates.

-
I think you are in error on a number of points - here we go:
1) There is no such thing as 'FTA' in Eire - if you don't pay Sky for a subscription (it can be Basic, if required) you will not receive the national broadcaster (RTE) on 101, 102 or TV3. The only options were to pay for two subs at the full price. This was despite the UK viewer having the ability to have a 'mirror' sub for more than a year earlier.
2) CLI is 'anti cheat'??? As a mechanism, it's a failure. I have two lines, one for voice calls which shows my number to people that I call. My second line - for 'data' has the permanently barred - showing 'PRIVATE' should I use it to make a call. Sky make no stipulation as to the availability of CLI information, so with much of Ireland's domestic users (80% according to the Telecomms Regulator) keeping their number private - if SKY's anti card-sharing business plan depends on the availability of the called number.... they've already lost this one.
3) The selling of cards to lads in pubs is not an issue - unless the buyer is brain dead. Users can only buy 1, and then have to pay each month for the package to be mirrored. Additionally, the card must be married to the box, making such deals as unlikely as someone not being ripped off trying it on!

donhughberto

Glad to hear that i pay 60 and i guess 80 this month as i have new box in, i have no intentions of paying 120, what a rip off!

I think its robbery the way it is as a sky customer should get extra box as a one off payment and 60 quid is enough for one household. This is my seventh year with sky and thats got to count for something i should say.

THE_INSTALLER

I have a question:

What if Joe bloggs down the road from me had Sky Digital installed.........say............3 year's ago or so when It was not compulsary to have a phone line and he also did not have one at the time. Now say all these years later, Joe Bloggs still has no phone line, but want's a mirrored card now seen as it's now available, is he turned away, or what is his road?

byte

Well, basically, it would seem that it won't matter how long he's had Sky. The same rules would apply to him as anyone else who wants a Mirror Sub, which is to have both digiboxes connected to same phoneline.

I reckon it would be handier to just have one of the boxes as an FTA box, since you'd get BBC's, most news, some sport entertainment and music channels. Would be less hassle IMHO.

carrolls

Originally posted by okonski
-
I think you are in error on a number of points - here we go:
1) There is no such thing as 'FTA' in Eire - if you don't pay Sky for a subscription (it can be Basic, if required) you will not receive the national broadcaster (RTE) on 101, 102 or TV3.

Just because RTE is not FTA in Ireland on satellite, you cannot reach a conclusion that therefore there is no FTA in Ireland.
All the BBC channels are FTA in Ireland as well as dozens of other channels.
There are flaws in the rest of your points, but I will let you work them out for yourself.
I am not a supporter of Sky's practices, but they are here for the money and the last I heard, it is not illegal to make money.

watty

Originally posted by okonski
-
I think you are in error on a number of points - here we go:
1) There is no such thing as 'FTA' in Eire - if you don't pay Sky for a subscription (it can be Basic, if required) you will not receive the national broadcaster (RTE) on 101, 102 or TV3. The only options were to pay for two subs at the full price. This was despite the UK viewer having the ability to have a 'mirror' sub for more than a year earlier.
2) CLI is 'anti cheat'??? As a mechanism, it's a failure. I have two lines, one for voice calls which shows my number to people that I call. My second line - for 'data' has the permanently barred - showing 'PRIVATE' should I use it to make a call. Sky make no stipulation as to the availability of CLI information, so with much of Ireland's domestic users (80% according to the Telecomms Regulator) keeping their number private - if SKY's anti card-sharing business plan depends on the availability of the called number.... they've already lost this one.
3) The selling of cards to lads in pubs is not an issue - unless the buyer is brain dead. Users can only buy 1, and then have to pay each month for the package to be mirrored. Additionally, the card must be married to the box, making such deals as unlikely as someone not being ripped off trying it on!

1) There have ALWAYS been FTA channels. But I never said anything about IRISH TV. It is not even FTV, a sore point. I have over 600 FTA channels. None are Irish.

2) I can't have a Mirror sub (if I wanted one) as my "wireless loop" phone line does allow phones, modems, Sky Box office etc, but no way to verify the two boxes are on the same line. Yes CLI a lot does not work, but if you want a mirrror sub, that is what needs to work. Possibly the boxes could "syncronise" via sat and check that the line is in use or free at pretermined times to see if both boxes are on the same line, if both succeed to dial home at same time then the "test" would prove "cheating". BUT AFAIK, Sky's defualt is to use CLI. Plenty of reports of problems when folks have used two different lines for convienience or don't have CLI.

3) It doesn't need "lads in pubs" just a relative or friend.


Sky doesn't need to offer a discount at all. If you are on Family pack then Mirror is not much saving, on less, it hardly saves at all. It is best value to Sport/Movie pack SkyWorld packs as these are very expensive.

After many years of Sky I decided I would pay 1/2 a family pack if I could chose my 6 channels. This is not on offer so I spend the money on DVDs and pay Sky nothing now.

I decided this some while before BBC became FTA.


Carrols is as per usual 100% correct, except in Quantity of channels.

With a 1m dish it has been established that in excess of 1000 FTA TV and a similar number radio are available. Of course some of these are UK or Croatian Shopping TV or Sex Phone Line adverts.

On a single fixed 80cm dish with 3LNBs (13E, 19E, 28E) you can get more than 550 FTA TV and 500 FTA Radio.

Sufficent quantity of these are good enough for the viewer to survive without a Sky or Chorus or NTL pay package.

FTV cards can be got (free in past on some channels) for small once off fees for UK, Netherlands, Switzerland easily. I had a whole weekend of Dutch FTV tv FTA when they where changing encryption. Many english programs. A Card would be good value If I had a Dutch Social Security number and a Dutch Post Code. A Swiss card is easier and once off payment of about €100 to any Swiss citizen, ANYWHERE. AFAIK they don't ask to see the passport

France has some decent low price packages that cost LESS than a mirror Sub.


Satellite does not begin and end with Sky.

okonski

Originally posted by carrolls
Just because RTE is not FTA in Ireland on satellite, you cannot reach a conclusion that therefore there is no FTA in Ireland.
All the BBC channels are FTA in Ireland as well as dozens of other channels.
There are flaws in the rest of your points, but I will let you work them out for yourself.
I am not a supporter of Sky's practices, but they are here for the money and the last I heard, it is not illegal to make money.

Dear me - you make an assumption on my part then accuse me of ignorance...? The fact that you can now see BBC channels is a quirk of their planning and method of operation - either way, I get enough bad programming from RTE without having to worry about what the Brits get. If I could get my RTE and channels as FTV with an 'RTE Card' and no subscription, I would - but I cannot. Until BBC changed their system, Irish viewers either had to smuggle a 'BBC card' or pay Sky for the 217/218 channels. Did you notice the sub go down when these channels went 'free'..? No, neither did I.

We agree on Sky's practices - but as to your dismissal of my other points as being 'flawed' - please, put me out of the ignorance you seem to think I'm suffering from.

I've no issue with Sky making money - they have a right to do this, HOWEVER if we are being subject to conditions that British users do not - then I remain annoyed. British users have had mirror subs with no phone line requirement right up until Sky Plus was launched. Do I take it this is fine with you...?

okonski

Originally posted by watty
Possibly the boxes could "syncronise" via sat and check that the line is in use or free at pretermined times to see if both boxes are on the same line, if both succeed to dial home at same time then the "test" would prove "cheating". BUT AFAIK, Sky's defualt is to use CLI. Plenty of reports of problems when folks have used two different lines for convienience or don't have CLI.

Carrols is as per usual 100% correct, except in Quantity of channels.

I think you have no idea how the call-back system works. How on earth could two boxes 'syncronise' in calling Sky - the phone line is mine, not theirs. If one box is using the line, it is looped and therefore unavailable to the other box to use. No CLI is specified and I've not come across anyone being challenged - at the end of the day Sky is getting revenue I seriously doubt they'll be seriously inconvenienced if the unlikely scenario you outline happened. Such a box wouldn't be connected to the line unless a Box Office request was made.

As to your support of Carrols 100-percentage (in your opinion) perhaps you could explain which part of his contribution explained anything? I'm not interested in a flame war, I'm simply wanting to get to the facts.

donhughberto

How often do they call the boxs and i see some people disconnect their boxes from phone line, it seems it happens to some people and not everyone.

What do sky do hen, send you a letter and what then, disconnect both boxes?

freetoair

The same rules have always applied in the UK for mirrored subscriptions, you must have both boxes connected to the phone line.
I can understand your frustration. I too have purchased two non-subsidised boxes, would love to avail of the mirror subscription but cannot due to the location of the phone lines within the house, plus the fact that I don't want the kids playing PAY-2-PLAY games on the digiboxes.

If you read through Watty's comments again about the synchronised boxes you'll see that he made the same point you are making in your reply to him !

Tony

Originally posted by Owenw
I had a discussion like this with a dealer and came to the conclusion that a couple of temporary phone extensions to the 2 boxes will do to finish the installation & 'marry' the cards with the boxes.


.

This is a dangerous assumption to make. Two things may happen 1. The sky retailer is not paid the true cost of the installation and 2. the customer is charged full price for the mirror subscription.

Guys can we stop giving the impression that temporary phonelines are ok and its ok to disconnect the line once the installer has left the building, this is simply going to cause more problems down the line. The retalier aint going to be happy at losing 200 euro + and most likely will try to reclaim this from the customer.

Tony

watty

Sky NEVER EVER call the boxes.

A signal by Satellite tells the box to phone Sky. If line is busy it tries again (This does not involve looping). Any electronic gear can tell if a phone line is already busy before trying to use it.


I have designed both Exchange (Central Office) and "Client" phone line equipment, so I am well aware of what is possible.


It is simple:

If you DON'T or cant connect both boxes to phone then you CAN'T have a mirror sub.


If you get a mirror sub and both boxes arn't mostly (100% connection is not required) connected to the same line and Sky (for whatever reason) can't establish it is the same line (commonly CLI matches), eventually you will be contacted. It will be a problem.

AFAIK They NEVER EVER CALL the boxes. The boxes are TOLD by satellite when to phone Sky.


If the problem is NOT resolved Sky HAVE disabled mirror viewing card.

For this reason those with a second box abroad or holiday home are advised by experinced to take a second full price subscription, not a mirror sub.


Listen to what Tony is saying.

If you want no phone line then pay full price or buy S/H and full price or no sub.

There are wireless extensions (if wiring is the issue). These are not the same as a "wireless loop", which probabily will work for a regular subsidized install but not mirror. (I can't do Western Union money transfer using my phone due to the non-existance of CLI).

Tony

Originally posted by okonski
I think you have no idea how the call-back system works. How on earth could two boxes 'syncronise' in calling Sky - the phone line is mine, not theirs.

Two boxes can be synchronised to phone sky very simply, bear in mind that the boxes simply follow instruction sent by sky via satellite. This is a method they use to determine if both boxes are on the same phone line,. Two methods may be employed 1. Sky instruct both boxes to call at different times and if both show the same no. as CLI then no problem if one shows CLI and the other does not or neither show CLI then 2. Sky instructs both boxes to call at the same time , if they both call back then it is clear that they are on different telephone lines and sky will take action.

Tony

dmeehan

how could sky call the boxes?
wouldnt that make your house phone ring too?

has anyone noticed the calls FROM the digibox to sky on thier itemised bills?

Tony

Originally posted by dmeehan
how could sky call the boxes?
wouldnt that make your house phone ring too?

has anyone noticed the calls FROM the digibox to sky on thier itemised bills?

They dont call the boxes they send an instruction via the satellite.

okonski

Originally posted by Tony
Two boxes can be synchronised to phone sky very simply, bear in mind that the boxes simply follow instruction sent by sky via satellite. This is a method they use to determine if both boxes are on the same phone line,. Two methods may be employed 1. Sky instruct both boxes to call at different times and if both show the same no. as CLI then no problem if one shows CLI and the other does not or neither show CLI then 2. Sky instructs both boxes to call at the same time , if they both call back then it is clear that they are on different telephone lines and sky will take action.

Tony

Hi Tony,

'Syncronise' is a rather unfortunate word choice as it is meaningless - Sky can request the box to make a call, whether it makes it or not depends on too many factors to be used as any certainty the subscriber is fully complying with the request that both boxes are connected to a working telephone line. For years I have had a working phone line, but my Sky box won;t connect to it. Why? It is ISDN.

Am I to downgrade to analogue to assist Sky? I don't think so. As to your scenarios, the issue is one where the boxes ARE legitimately in the subscribers house. If both are on the same phone line, and have CLI flagged as private, they get two call backs with no number shown. From your summary that particular case isn't addressed - and it still proves nothing, not the location and only that both boxes are connected to 'a' phone line. Therefore Sky are no better off by insisting on this phone connection.

As for an earlier comment of a dealer suffering a clawback on an installation - this certainly isn't the case here as all equipment is s/h and no dealer is/was ever involved.

Tony

Hi Raymond, unfortunately sky take the view that you are guilty until proven innocent. Sky do not differentiate in your case they simply say that the boxes must be connected to the same phoneline not just any phoneline. I think they take the view that to lose out on a few customers with a scenario like yours is the lesser of two evils, the greater being mirror cards being used in another household. Since they do not have any real competition they engage in arrogant behaviour such as this IE believing the customer should accomodate them rather than the other way around .

I dont agree that synchronise is an unfortunate word as that is exactly what happens and sky will not give either the customer or the retailer the benefit of the doubt.

Tony

Originally posted by okonski
Hi Tony,

'Syncronise' is a rather unfortunate word choice as it is meaningless - Sky can request the box to make a call, whether it makes it or not depends on too many factors to be used as any certainty the subscriber is fully complying with the request that both boxes are connected to a working telephone line. For years I have had a working phone line, but my Sky box won;t connect to it. Why? It is ISDN.

carrolls

Originally posted by okonski
Hi Tony,
'Syncronise' is a rather unfortunate word choice as it is meaningless -

Funny you should say that.:D

lawhec

Sky in this case are perfectly reasonable to ask that for them to sell you a mirror subscription at a reduced fee, that it has some way of monitoring both digiboxes in use that they are both under the one roof. Remember that Sky don't have to sell you a mirror sub. They are a broadcasting platform, amongst other things, and a business. The mirror sub system without a phone conection would leave the system highly vunerable to abuse. I believe Canal + France also have a similar mirror sub system for their subscribers and guess what? They have to have both boxes connected to the phone line as well.

On a different level I don't know how CLI is handled in the Republic, but in the UK any line that does NOT give out it's number by default but uses a service where the number of the phone line must be visible uses the prefix 1470 before the number dialled. This is the case with Flat-rate internet access packages where virtually all ISPs that offer them insist you cn only use the service from one number, therefore CLI has to be de-actived in this case. The Sky Digibox has a system where a prefix can be given to the number dialled out by the digibox and if a "reverse" blocking of CLI is possible in the south, what's the problem?

The only thing I have about the mirror sub is that it's a bit of a cost, but hey as mentioed above Sky are out to make money, not friends. Nothing of what they are doing is illegal.

dmeehan

Originally posted by Tony
They dont call the boxes they send an instruction via the satellite.

yes i know, that was my point. i had read watty's post before i added to the thread

watty

Originally posted by okonski
Hi Tony,

I have had a working phone line, but my Sky box won;t connect to it. Why? It is ISDN.

Am I to downgrade to analogue to assist Sky? I don't think so. .

ISDN does NOT stop analog equipment being used, in fact on the two channels you can easily have 2 + 10 numbers and have any two numbers in use.

The POTS (analog phone ports) can be on a cheap box that plugs into the RJ45 TE port (a kind of bus allowing I think up to 8 TA devices). Each TA device (ISDN FAX, PABX, PC ISDN/NIC card or ISDN Router) may have one or more numbers assigned to it.

Some ISDN TE boxes (all of the "Hispeed" installs) have two built in POTS ports for analog phones, but if not a box with 4 phone ports that will even work as an internal PABX can be got for under €200.

Both the "ISDN" ports (S-BUS) are the same connection, not one for each line. It is the configuration of the TA connected to the TE that decides which or both lines / numbers are used.


TA= Terminal Adaptor: The bit that does something for you
TE= Terminal Equipment. The box on the wall that is the "real" ISDN "modem" converting the analog signal on the copper wires to a 144K bps data on the S-Bus.

What people buy as "ISDN Modems" NEVER are, these are RS232 port on an ISDN Router version of a TA. The "real" modem is the box on the wall, which optionally can have a POTS TA built in for analog phones.

POTS = Plain Ole Telephone System.

ISDN is VERY undersold:

With a suitable POTS TA box and PC with internal ISDN / NIC you can:

Assign a few numbers to FAX feature of ISDN PC card
Assign different number or same to Data transfer feature
Assign a different number for an Analog Fax, Analog Answer machine, Personal phone, Business Phone etc all on POTS adaptor.

The small home office only pays for one ISDN, approx the same as 3 lines, and can have 12 dedicated phone numbers for different purposes, though on ly any two can be used at once.

Unlike Analog line where trying to share a line with phone, fax and modem for incomming calls is a disaster, the ISDN system can differentiate:
Voice
ISDN Data
ISDN Fax
Analog FAX
Other Modem

And route to the required SW on a PC (only on internal ISDN card, not on RS232 based TA) or "ring" required POTS port.


CLI is not a problem on ISDN either. Incommiong FAX on a PC SErver FAX system can be routed on basis of Calling party AND/OR destination number.

If the ISDN is configured properly two digiboxes can plug into the SAME POTS port via a regular phone splitter and will have same CLI, no matter which free channel is used to make the call.

If you have an external POTS adaptor (because only S-Bus on your ISDN TE -- the Wall Box = modem) then the same applies except once off at install you must assign a number to the POTS port you use. Again both Digiboxes MUST plug via a regular phone splitter to the ISDN.


In the past Eircom would not send a CLI part the national boundary "for consititutional" reasons. This gave me problems updating SW via ISDN from Germany as CLI was used. It is likely that the delay in Mirror Subs was getting round this problem no doubt by using an Irish Free Phone number.

Tony

Originally posted by dmeehan
yes i know, that was my point. i had read watty's post before i added to the thread

Then why ask "How could sky call the boxes? it was not clear that you were not asking a question

??

okonski

Originally posted by watty
ISDN does NOT stop analog equipment being used, in fact on the two channels you can easily have 2 + 10 numbers and have any two numbers in use.

Hi Watty,

In my case it does - I chose my workds carefully when I said 'ISDN' not HiSpeed! My terminal box is a main powered Siemens line termination unit, all I have is two RJ45 sockets for accessing the two channels. Channel A has an Alcatel ISDN phone for voice calls, and my USR TA for Internet. Sure I can sub-addressing if it was any use, but I have no analogue telephone sockets (either RJ11 or BT-stylw) available.

As to CLI, what everyone appears to overlook is that any argument Sky use for same line and same premises is negated by the user choosing to keep their number private. There's nothing in the conditions that require the user to have their number presented to the recipient party, so this so-called foolproof method of ensuring no funny business has a whapping big hole in it. Similarly, id you have multiple numbering or sub-addressing with an analogue capability, your 'same line' can give Sky different number, yet be fully compliant with their contractural condition!

As to the mirror sub, if all you have is the basic package, the savings of a mirror sub compared to an extra card is peanuts - and if I keep control of my phone line and the equiment used to access it - the value increases (to me!)..

What does stand up to closer scrutiny, is the telephone number Sky used to get the boxes to outdial. CLI as you probably know is always carried as part of the call set-up information. A Private or Withheld flag simply tells the receiving network not to display the number at its destination and to blank it. Now - what if Sky has reached a deal with its telecom provider to pass ALL the data, and not supress it? That is an infringement of your rights. To prevent such infringement, I feel no reason to keep my boxes connected to the same line, if they break the rules - so can I! <g>

watty

Yes I'm familar with those and have added phones, fax, modem etc via cheap 4 channel POTS box that plugs into the ISDN S-Bus socket.


Both RJ45 access both channels, they are simply S-Bus ports. There is no association between actual channel or channels used and the particular RJ45 connection.

There may not even be an association between a channel and the two numbers (Either number can use either or both channels on some configurations).


It does not stop you using the Digibox.

If you don't CLI and don't want to buy such a a box (which has many uses including 4 line internal phone system), this is of course your choice. You then can't have a mirror sub. There is no reason why a mirror sub should exist at all (other than Sky think that those on Premium packages won't take out two subs).

For a Family pack there is not a huge (but it is significant over a year) saving.

I don't bother anymore with even one sub, so not being able to have a mirror sub (if I wanted one) does not bother me. I did have two digiboxes, one on Sub and one slightly more than FTA.

When I cancelled the Sub I part swapped one Digibox for a HF transeiver. I don't miss it (maybe at Christmas I will) as I have 2 analog and a PC Digital Sat receiver also.

I can't at all have a mirror sub if i want, without changing phone line provider. You can have a mirror sub if you wanted, but obviosly the bother of buying a POTS adaptor and sharing your phone number with Sky (who already know it it you have a sub) exceeds the desire to save money on the long term. It is true too that you can take out a mirror sub, not connect (or connnect with CLI disabled etc) and wait and see what Sky do.

The process could easily take 3 or 4 months before they switch off a card in a box. They may indeed have some discretion on deciding to disable a mirror card or not. It seems to be a process where people rather than a sw program makes the final decision.

There are valid questions as to exactly what Sky get by phone from your box(es). It would not surprise me if it included viewing statistics, but this is so far unproven.

"Cli" on analog and Digital lines is a quite different beast. Analog does not need it and it is not part of any original signalling spec.

The source and destination is certinally an integral part "internally" on the network of any full digital system (end to end).

I used to design trunk signalling protocol convertors for analog, digital and hybrid (Hybrid is where the digital channels have converted forms of the old analog protocols either in channel, or on a separate signalling channel).

A lot of interesting possibilities arise when the customer equipment is a computer/Digital PABX/Call management system connected to Primary ISDN or higher bit rate "pipes". A lot of inforamtion would be available that a consumer with a little plugin CLI display on an analog line would not get.

I don't suppose given the lack of transparancy in Irish politic, busines and semistate that we whould know what deal there ir with Sky. But it took a long time to get the telecom infrastructure deal here and it is NOT with Eircom.

dmeehan

Originally posted by Tony
Then why ask "How could sky call the boxes? it was not clear that you were not asking a question

??

it was a rhetorical question

Tony

Originally posted by dmeehan
it was a rhetorical question

I know that now but it was not clear from your post that it was rhetorical as you did not quote anything to put in context.

Tony