c++ newb here, whats going on.

Boston · 10-10-2003 11:52am #1

helo, i'm about to start learning how to program in C++ but as yet i've no idea what exactly it is. i mean i know it makes programs and these programs make the computer go, but what is c++ is it a software suite i can get and use, the lecturer seems to just use a built in part of mac os x to program nad i think i've seen something similar in linux, but what program do i asctually use on windows to program in c++ and is it the same (compatible) with the programs used on imac's.

thanks, sorry i haven't a clue about this, most apear rather stupid looking.

Mick L · 10-10-2003 12:03pm

Boston,

C++ is a programming language (there are MANY of them) and as such you can't buy the language just as you can't buy English. However when you write program in a language such as C++ you can use a software package to compile your program so that it can be used on a computer. The compilers are basically what you can buy, e.g. Microsoft Visual C++ (included in Visual Studio). There are free compilers, especially for unix, linux and sun machines. I think most are based on the same basic compiler gnu??

Anyway, to just write C++ all you need is notepad. But to do anything useful you'll need at least a compiler and to make life a bit easier you'll need a nice editor to help you write the programs.

giolla · 10-10-2003 12:15pm

boston u sound very much like a first year student at trinity?
If so there's microsoft's visual c++ on all the pc's there. I found that much easier to debug programs than all this changing between the text editor (bbedit lite i think) and the terminal window.

Boston · 10-10-2003 12:18pm

its true i am a first year trinity student, i'll look into getting visual c++

Mick L · 10-10-2003 12:19pm

Originally posted by giolla
boston u sound very much like a first year student at trinity?
If so there's microsoft's visual c++ on all the pc's there. I found that much easier to debug programs than all this changing between the text editor (bbedit lite i think) and the terminal window.

That's a good point, to start off with i'd stick with the MS programs. Eventually you might have to program for non-Windows OSs in which case you might come across an editor called vi. All I can say is best of luck with that, has to have the most bizarre UI i've ever seen in a program.

Cake Fiend · 10-10-2003 12:24pm

That's why you should use emacs!

/me hides...

Boston · 10-10-2003 12:41pm

I would except i'd have more use for my new laptop

giolla · 10-10-2003 12:49pm

If your worried about passing the subject, don't.
The exam is all about learing off the programs u wrote (or copied of the nerdy guy) during the year.

Boston · 10-10-2003 12:53pm

not really all that worried, just think its problable a good hting to learn how to do, and it doesn't look that hard

Auburn · 10-10-2003 3:18pm

Originally posted by Boston
not really all that worried, just think its problable a good hting to learn how to do, and it doesn't look that hard

:eek:

Not to scare you ar anything, but C++ isn't easy. The best thing to do is keep on top of lectures, etc., and lots of practice!!

For first year you probably would get by with learning things off but you could find yourself screwed later when you discover you don't understand the basics!!

Lemming · 10-10-2003 3:37pm

Originally posted by Mick L
The compilers are basically what you can buy, e.g. Microsoft Visual C++ (included in Visual Studio). There are free compilers, especially for unix, linux and sun machines. I think most are based on the same basic compiler gnu??

Or you could try Dev-C++ which is a GUI working around the windows port of the gcc compiler (GNU compiler). It's free and quite good.

Peace · 10-10-2003 3:47pm

The lads are dead right boston, practice in writing/compiling programs is theonly way to learn properly. If you devote a couple of hours each week to doing a bit of programming you'll make bits of any exam paper they could throw at you.....

Saying that....i don't think i can but an old head on new shoulders

- 1st years tend to terrible men/wonen for the beer.

Evil Phil · 10-10-2003 4:06pm

Originally posted by Peace
1st years tend to terrible men/wonen for the beer.

Kettle... Black...

My advice Boston, and you're going to get a lot of it in here, is to keep coding. Come up with programs that do anything like ping webservers or calculate the time it takes to boil a given amount of water from freezing. Its the experience that counts and it will stand to you.

Mick L · 10-10-2003 4:12pm

Yeah and use pointers and throw them about willy nilly. Doesn't matter if you don't know what they are now........YOU WILL. Can you say memory leak??

You'll also learn how to curse compilers like you've never cursed before. One more thing, take a screen shot of this, put it on the wall next to your desk

and it doesn't look that hard

:mad:

Nah seriously though, enjoy programming

MWAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHAAAAAAAA :f33r: :f33r:

Boston · 10-10-2003 7:04pm

right i've obtained visual c++, anybody know any good tutorials, preferable somethign in a step by step pdf formatt.

Adrian · 10-10-2003 7:22pm

I find C++ very easy and I am only in secondary school. It's probably one of the easiest oop's out. I use Dev- C++ as i would not be bothered buying Microsoft Visual C++. You should start learning it by getting The book " The Complete Idiots Guide To C++". This will teach you the basics. Then from there you can go into Object oriented programming at machine level or visual c++ for windows programs. By far C++ is the most rewarding program to learn. Good look.

Boston · 10-10-2003 7:24pm

they only thought C++ in my school to the spanners that couldn't handle a science, wheres the logi in that. I have a book its called problem solving in c++ and object oriented programing.

Typedef · 14-10-2003 4:57pm

Originally posted by Sico
That's why you should use emacs!

/me hides...

emacs is for women and people who get amourous with sheep.

vim...
that is all.

mr_angry · 14-10-2003 5:12pm

Emacs is the height of ecstacy compared to the dog turd that is Vi - forced upon me in 3rd Year Operating Systems. Ugh. The memories still haunt me.

C++ is my favourite of all the programming languages, but it is horrendously difficult to manage in large-scale projects compared to Java. However, in C++ you're in control of everything, and Java is sh*t slow.

For now, all you should be doing is learning simple loops (like counting to 10, and printing out the results), and learning to test if your code works properly.

Typedef · 14-10-2003 5:39pm

Originally posted by mr_angry4
Emacs is the height of ecstacy compared to the dog turd that is Vi - forced upon me in 3rd Year Operating Systems. Ugh. The memories still haunt me.

Your minority opinion has been logged to.

/dev/null.

Typedef · 14-10-2003 5:42pm

Yeah Boston.

Dev-C++... do you really need to spend money on more M$ bloatware?

Boston · 14-10-2003 5:52pm

Dev-C++ is that some kindof linux based thing, i have mandrake nine somewhere, i think, never bothered to install it though.

sceptre · 14-10-2003 11:02pm

Dev-C++ is available for most platforms you can think of.

MS VC++ is more trouble than it's worth imho. Especially when you just want to compile simple programs like you'll be doing in first (and second) year. I used it when I first started learning c++ last year and I was so happy to use something with less bells and whistles instead. Make life easy for yourself and avoid it like the plague.

Boston · 15-10-2003 8:21am

where abouts would i obtain it.

Typedef · 15-10-2003 3:24pm

Goole use it sometime http://prdownloads.sourceforge.net/dev-cpp/devcpp4980.exe

k?

Gav_b · 15-10-2003 3:52pm

My advice would be to go with Visual C++.
When you go to look for employment you will find that most of the jobs in C++ are for windows developers, using Visual studio and the MFC. For example if down the road you want to get into game or audio program development, the SDKs for all the commercial programs are released as Visual Studio projects (Direct-X, VST etc)

Alot of people start out intending to use Visual C++, but give up after a few sessions, expecting it to be alot easier than it is. Because they failed to master it, they then totally dismiss it. While it is certainly long winded and complex, when you get the swing of it, the benifits are well worth the inital head scratching.
My advice would be to get a copy of Visual C++ in 21 days and go through all the leasons. This will give you a basic over view.
After that I recommend getting a copy of Microcsoft Visual C++ by Microsoft Press (latest edition is black with a spanner on the front)

Evil Phil · 15-10-2003 3:59pm

Editplus 2 is a handy little programmers file editor with syntax highlighting/colouring, auto-complete and all manner of wonderful things. You can link to external programs too, like C++ compilers. While I've never done this I have done it with Java and it worked a dream. It even has built in FTP functionality. There's support for loads of languages and filetypes and if what you want isn't there, you can create your own support files and upload them to the website.

I've used Editplus with:
Asp
VBScript
Javascript
HTML
Php
Java
C#
Sybase T-SQL
PL/SQL.

It's deadly

Boston · 15-10-2003 4:31pm

I'm not looking to become a professional programmer, just in hte course i'm doing its covered. I don't see myself doing it for a living, just something usefull to have, no point in being ignorant if some bloke in college is willing to teach moi how to program, even if its just the basics, but i think we do java as well later on.

DeadBankClerk · 16-10-2003 1:55pm

You don't do C++ in first year in Trinity.
Actually they never teach you C++.

Boston · 16-10-2003 2:19pm

Originally posted by DeadBankClerk

You don't do C++ in first year in Trinity.
Actually they never teach you C++.

Sorry but what are you ****ing on about? is this an attemp to be funny?

DeadBankClerk · 16-10-2003 7:35pm

Yeah, I'm going to clown school next year.

Boston · 17-10-2003 2:23pm

Originally posted by DeadBankClerk
Yeah, I'm going to clown school next year.

UCD?

DeadBankClerk · 19-10-2003 2:55am

Orts! Totally loike!

gerryk · 21-11-2003 3:54pm

Originally posted by Typedef
emacs is for women and people who get amourous with sheep.

vim...
that is all.

vi is for lightweights...
echo [code] >>file is the only way to go

mr_angry · 21-11-2003 4:03pm

Vi is for people with an unhealthy desire to cause themselves as much pain as physically possible. For masochists and torture-chambers only.

DeadBankClerk · 21-11-2003 4:29pm

That sounds like someone with a low midichlorian count.

Silent Bob · 21-11-2003 10:41pm

Microsoft Visual C++ 6.0 is THE worst C++ compiler I have ever used. Don't use it unless you really have to.
You will find that they use very generic error messages (LNK2001 anybody?) and the 'for' loop scope issue is also intensely stupid.

I haven't used VC++.NET. VC++6.0 put me off using MS IDE's/compilers.

Go for Dev-C++. The GNU Compiler Collection has probably the best C compiler that exists at this time and it's C++ compiler is also extremely good.

Don't listen to people saying that you should do most of your coding on MS Windows. That's also fairly daft. Learn how to do the MS Windows specifics and then as far as possible write good, clean, standards compliant code, avoid using system calls that aren't in the standard C API as far as possible, if you have to use other system calls, wrap them up in other classes/modules so that you only have to re-write the class/module. That way you can port the code to other OS's with minimum hassle AND you learn to write proper standards compliant code.

You'll probably also find that if you do any reasonable amounts of programming on 'other' OS's (particulary *nix ones) that they are far nicer platforms for programming on than MS Windows is...

Atreides · 21-11-2003 11:24pm

Having read this thread I've decided to switch from Visual C++ to Dev C++, all is going well so far.

tendofan · 24-11-2003 10:20am

I've grown very fond of the Comeau compiler - fully standards compliant as far as I can make out. I've set my sytem up to use Visual Studio as the IDE and the Comeau compiler as the backend. Works a treat for me, but then I avoid attributed C++ and Managed C++ like the plague. ;-)

Tendofan.

vorbis · 24-11-2003 8:42pm

just like to add an intense dislike for vi. I'm still not sure what the original designer was thinking about. I'm also doing c++ this year after 2 years of java. Its similiar but a bit messy with the whole memory pointer thing. Out of curiosity who exactly likes having access to that stuff?

Talliesin · 25-11-2003 10:33am

Originally posted by Silent Bob
I haven't used VC++.NET. VC++6.0 put me off using MS IDE's/compilers.

VC++.NET, especially the 2003 release, is vastly superior to 6.0.
ISO 14882 compliance is greatly improved (for "normal" C++) to the point that most of the time you'd have to make a concerted effort to find a failure, and it's good at letting you tell microsoft "extensions" to shut up.

Off the top of my head, proper for-loop inialisation behaviour, covariant return types (yes covariance isn't that important, but you don't half have to jump through hoops in cases where it is needed to fake it), partial specialisation and explicit initialisation of static const integer members are things that have made my life a bit easier since I upgraded.

DeadBankClerk · 25-11-2003 11:20pm

Originally posted by vorbis
just like to add an intense dislike for vi. I'm still not sure what the original designer was thinking about.

He was thinking of designing an editor that can be used over a connection slower than 9,600kbits/second.

c++ newb here, whats going on.

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