Fantasy Racing - October - "Winner Alright, Winner Alright" tracker

PH01

Use this thread to track your winners for the Fantasy Racing for October

PH01

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?postid=1145518#post1145518

3.00
1st - 3 COLOSSAL 2/1

Tote prices
TIME WIN
3.00 4.70

What do I get for my 1pt stake?

pro_gnostic_8

Well don, PH01. As soon as I saw your selections yesterday morning I had a feeling you would be on a winner with Colossal. The aidan O'Brien/Mick Kinane combination is always a force to be reckoned with.

I'm off now to check out all the other results. As it stands (if your other 3 selections lost) you are showing a profit of 2 points but your "bank" is down to 46.

pro_gnostic_8

Okay, PH01....... all results now checked.
Firstly, I'm going to suggest a little fine tweaking here, ok? It is :- that if you have a winner, then, the point(s) staked on the horse is added to the profits. (The stake is still subtracted from the 50pt bank, just as in the case of a loser) This is, I think, only fair. So in the case of Colossal (winner @2/1) you are credited with 3 points to your profit/loss account.

I also had a winner yesterday ..... 3pts Fear Siuil @7/4. Other two runners 3rd at decent prices but don't count. Incidentally I'm kincking myself over the winner of the last at Stratford in which I had ITS RUMOURED 3rd. Winner was Boing Boing at 20/1 who I backed and won a competitive handicap on the flat 2 weeks ago.

Anyway, as it stands the rankings by my calc at the mo is:

PH01 ........ bank 47pts, profit/loss + 3 pts

pro ............bank 41pts, P/L + 12.25 pts

There must be a cleaner, crisper way of posting up the daily P/L tallies than this ...I'll look into it.



A suggestion, if I may, that we use this thread that you started to answer questions regarding the comp or for resolving disputes and keep the other exclusively for posting up of selections?

PH01

A suggestion, if I may, that we use this thread that you started to answer questions regarding the comp or for resolving disputes and keep the other exclusively for posting up of selections?

Fair enough.

BTW, I had a NR in the 5:30 yesterday at Tipp with Central House. Shouldn't I get my point back for that?
I though about then putting a stake on 'Khetaam', but I chickened out. KHETAAM went on to win that race at 4-1 - gerrrr.

pro_gnostic_8

Originally posted by PH01

BTW, I had a NR in the 5:30 yesterday at Tipp with Central House. Shouldn't I get my point back for that?

Yup, PH01, that was factored in ............... you had 4 X 1pt selections so your bank shows 47pts having taking into account NR CENTRAL HOUSE.

pro_gnostic_8

So ................ Morgans and Hobart roar into contention!
Morgans wins 11.875 pts (including winning stake)
Hobart wins 8.625 pts
PH01 gets no return from his Downpatrick thru' the card
I win 1.91 pts.

Consequently the standings are:
PH01................. bank 40pts, P/L +3 pts
pro ....................bank 40pts, P/L +14.16pts
Morgans ............bank 43pts, P/L +11.875pts
Hobart ...............bank 42pts, P/L +8.625pts

Morgans

not companing or nothing, but what happens when you run out of your 50pts. Is it that you cant place any more bets? OR cna you use your pts profit to continue betting? It has implacations for strategy in the context of the competition. If there is only 50pts to bet with, your bets need to go on at as big a price as possible. For instance, i selected Xellence today when he was an odds against shot, 13/8 in places, however now that he is 4/6 - after the withdrawl of 2 horses in the race, he obviously has a better chance of winning, but frankly its a wasted 10% of my bank - if i cant use my winnings to rewager.

JUst wondering. Not a life or death sitaution.

Morgans

Horse lost in any case, but i think its still a valid query

Hobart

It's a valid point actually. But maybe we should restrict it to a % of the winnings in any one month. Maybe 25% can be added back to your kitty???

PH01

No. You shouldn't be allowed to dip into your profits (that's is if your lucky enough to make one) to continue financing your participation. It is after all your score.

But then again, it might add a bit more spice to the game if you're allowed to risk your profits on a loser. Yeah, it would probably make it more fun.

pro_gnostic_8

Originally posted by Morgans
not companing or nothing, but what happens when you run out of your 50pts. Is it that you cant place any more bets? OR cna you use your pts profit to continue betting?

I have to say that I disagree strongly.

The concept of maximisation of profitability IMHO is outside the terms of reference of this competition, and belongs more in the realm of staking plans, value-finding, etc. The sole objective with this comp. is as in other similar excercises (Sporting Life naps table) ......... picking winners. However, the participant in our competition is given added leeway and freedom to adjust his stakes according to his strenght of confidence in a selection. I believe in keeping it simple,straight-forward and manageable ...... playing up profits (or percentages thereof) would be a nightmare to administer.

QUOTE

---

If there is only 50pts to bet with, your bets need to go on at as big a price as possible.
________________________________________________
This is, respectfully, in error. The guidline rules actually encourage the selection of short priced horses because the winning stake is added to profits ....... and as you are aware a much larger percentage of "evens" shots will win as against 20/1's. ( Then again, punters can be devided into two distinct species :- the tortoise and the hare. The hare who plumps on 20/1 chances and who progresses stutteringly, and the tortoise who plugs away at short-priced favs and usually crosses the winning line first ). It is up to each contestant as to what style of "pick" he chooses. That is a strategic choice.

Finally, I need to emphasize that I am not trying to be a dictator here. I did post up suggested rules, and allowed a weekend for anybody to holler their objections. Nobody did. By all means we can change the rules, but let's see this months competition go to finality as it is before we do.

ps. At the end of the month, most of us (with the probable exception of Hobart ) will have less profit than the 50pt bank we started out with. Negative equity ! In the real world we wouldn't have any real profit to re-invest.

Morgans

Thats fine, but I dont see why the profits and the bank are separate.

you have 50pts , you win ten points one day, you have 60pts in your bank, if you lose 10pts you have 40pts in your bank. i think this would be easier to manage, and more reflects real life.

I dont have a problem with the competition rules, something to keep in mind for the next one however.

pro_gnostic_8

And Hobart storms into a seemingly unassailable lead.
But let's not lose all hope yet, people.

The Rankings:
PH01................ bank 36pts, P/L 6.75pts
pro....................bank 39pts, P/L 14.16pts
Morgans............bank 33pts, P/L 11,875pts
Hobart...............bank 34pts, P/L 46.5pts

pro_gnostic_8

Originally posted by Morgans
Thats fine, but I dont see why the profits and the bank are separate.

Because it is so much easier to keep track of how much a contestant has left of his 50pt bank for staking if the bank is kept separate from the profit column. Towards the end of the month you would have to go back through every single selection of a participant to see if he has over-staked his 50pt bank.

Like PH01 says, the profit is simply the score.

Morgans

I really dont want to get into an arguement here on this, but if teh profits were incorporated into the bank, wouldnt the person with teh highest bank balance at the end of the competition wins. In real life, the profits from Thursday can pay for Fridays betting. Its a small point and something worth noting for next time.

If you have 50 euro, and the aim is to make as much profit as you can for the month. You place 10 5 euro bets on one weekend, and win 200 euro. My question, is why cant you place a bet or make further priofits for the rest of the month? In real life you could use the 200 euro.

pro_gnostic_8

Originally posted by Morgans
, but if teh profits were incorporated into the bank, wouldnt the person with teh highest bank balance at the end of the competition wins.

Yes, just as the person with the highest profit will win it. Same thing, just that the bank is kept separate for ease of tracking purposes.

In real life, the profits from Thursday can pay for Fridays betting.
If you have 50 euro, and the aim is to make as much profit as you can for the month. You place 10 5 euro bets on one weekend, and win 200 euro. My question, is why cant you place a bet or make further priofits for the rest of the month? In real life you could use the 200 euro.

Indeed, you might do so and most punters will play up their winnings (or give it all back to the book as is usually the case). However, the shrewd gambler will put aside his winnings. Anyway, to get back to the point ............ this is, you will agree, a tipping competition ( far removed from the harsh world of reality where we may or may not play up our winnings). Most tipping or napping competitions are principally founded on one-a-day selections to level stakes. End of season or end of week/month is usually the cut-off with no opportunity to re-invest winning returns.

Sure we can debate it further in advance of next months comp, but I cannot quite honestly being in favour of this amendment tbh.

pro_gnostic_8

A lovely 10/1 winner, there, PH01 ........... jumps you straight into second place.

The Rankings:
Hobart ................ Bank 27pts, P/L 46/5pts
PH01 .................. Bank 31pts, P/L 17.75pts
pro ..................... Bank 37pts, P/L 16.75pts
Morgans ............ Bank 33pts, P/L 11.875pts

pro_gnostic_8

An update to the scoreboard to take into account my loss of 5 points on Saturday.

Morgans ................. Bank 33pts, Profit 11.875
pro ......................... Bank 32 pts, Profit 16.75
PH01....................... Bank 31 pts, Profit 17.75
Hobart .................... Bank 27 pts, Profit 46.5

pro_gnostic_8

Scoreboard:

Morgans ................. Bank 33pts, Profit 11.875
pro ......................... Bank 27 pts, Profit 30.5
carbsy .................... Bank 38pts, Profit 00.0
PH01....................... Bank 31 pts, Profit 17.75
Hobart .................... Bank 27 pts, Profit 46.5

PH01

Hi Pro,
Seeing that we're a week or so into the game (which I'm enjoying very much I might add and much appreciation to you for admining it BTW - fair play 2ya), most of us have nearly spent 50% of our alloted Bank points. So, to keep us going until the end of the month do you think that it would be an idea to raise the bank balance up to 100 points per month?

I know that this won't make a difference to chaps like Hobart, who looks to have sold his soul to the devil in order win, but it might give the rest of us mortals a chance of catching up

P.

pro_gnostic_8

Well that just would not be fair, would it PH0 ? It's like Ben Johnson steaming to victory in the Olympics 100 metre sprint and the rest of the field shouting "hey, lets lengthen the race to 200 metres to give us all a chance".

Originally posted by PH01
most of us have nearly spent 50% of our alloted Bank points.
P.

For some strange reason I'm reminded of the Biblical story of the "seven foolish virgins" who didn't trim their wicks (whatever that means)

pro_gnostic_8

Scoreboard:

Morgans ................. Bank 28pts, Profit 21.875
pro ......................... Bank 21 pts, Profit 47.25
carbsy .................... Bank 32pts, Profit 00.0
PH01....................... Bank 26 pts, Profit 24.75
Hobart .................... Bank 22 pts, Profit 55.14

carbsy

lol , I'm under pressure allready! :rolleyes:

pro_gnostic_8

Hang right on in there, carb. All of us started with zilch profit;)
Think poZitiF.

pro_gnostic_8

Update:

Morgans ................. Bank 11pts, Profit 29.075
pro ......................... Bank 15pts, Profit 47.25
carbsy .................... Bank 01pt, Profit 20.58
PH01....................... Bank 19pts, Profit 33.25
Hobart .................... Bank 16pts, Profit 68.14

carbsy

1pt , lol , need a big winner

pro_gnostic_8

Scoreboard:


Morgans ................. Bank 1pt, Profit 38.075
pro ......................... Bank 15pts, Profit 47.25
carbsy .................... Bank 0pt, Profit 20.58
PH01....................... Bank 13pts, Profit 40.25
Hobart .................... Bank 16pts, Profit 68.14

pro_gnostic_8

A bit late on the updated ranking following yesterday's results. Apologies. Was working last night and had a few subsequent Pinty-poo's.

Scoring:

Morgans ................. Bank 1pt, Profit 38.075
pro ......................... Bank 10pts, Profit 59.50
carbsy .................... Bank 0pt, Profit 20.58
PH01....................... Bank 8pts, Profit 45.25
Hobart .................... Bank 16pts, Profit 68.14

pro_gnostic_8

Scoring:

Morgans ................. Bank 1pt, Profit 38.075
pro ......................... Bank 9pts, Profit 59.50
carbsy .................... Bank 0pt, Profit 20.58
PH01....................... Bank 8pts, Profit 45.25
Hobart .................... Bank 16pts, Profit 68.14

pro_gnostic_8

Scorboard:

Morgans ................. Bank 1pt, Profit 38.075
pro ......................... Bank 7pts, Profit 59.50
carbsy .................... Bank 0pt, Profit 20.58
PH01....................... Bank 8pts, Profit 45.25
Hobart .................... Bank 9pts, Profit 85.14

pro_gnostic_8

So, Hobart is moving inexorably towards Endgame. Well done, a great performance.

Morgans ................. Bank 1pt, Profit 38.075
pro ......................... Bank 4pts, Profit 59.50
carbsy .................... Bank 0pt, Profit 20.58
PH01....................... Bank 8pts, Profit 45.25
Hobart .................... Bank 5pts, Profit 99.71

pro_gnostic_8

Scoreboard:

Morgans ................. Bank 1pt, Profit 38.075
pro ......................... Bank 4pts, Profit 59.50
carbsy .................... Bank 0pt, Profit 20.58
PH01....................... Bank 2pts, Profit 45.25
Hobart .................... Bank 5pts, Profit 99.71

pro_gnostic_8

Scoreboard:

Morgans ................. Bank 1pt, Profit 38.075
pro ......................... Bank 4pts, Profit 59.50
carbsy .................... Bank 0pts, Profit 20.58
PH01....................... Bank 0pts, Profit 45.25
Hobart .................... Bank 5pts, Profit 99.71

PH01

Originally posted by pro_gnostic_8
Scoreboard:

Morgans ................. Bank 1pt, Profit 38.075
pro ......................... Bank 4pts, Profit 59.50
carbsy .................... Bank 0pts, Profit 20.58
PH01....................... Bank 0pts, Profit 45.25
Hobart .................... Bank 5pts, Profit 99.71

Wow, Hobart will just about his money in the month - not a bad return.

Me, on the other hand lost 4.75 or -9.5% - could have been worse

Hobart

Just to see if I can dbl up this month:

PORTMAN PARK..11:50..Johnston Jolly..2PTs

NEWBURY........14:55........Peak To Creek..2PTs

pro_gnostic_8

Lads, ( and Hobart in particular ) I'm going to make a judgement call here and enter JOHNSTON JOLLY as a non-runner.

Why? Well, I'm kinda interpreting the rules for the Oct competition in so far as "All UK and Irish racemeetings valid for the competition.". Portman Park is not a "racemeeting" per se, but a computer-generated betting medium promoted by the Big-4 UK bookmaking chains with no real-life horse or jockey involvement. Neither are Portman Park results generally published on the mainstream newspapers or on Racingpost.co.uk.
Congratulations, however, are deserved on PEAK TO CREEK -- a juicy 5/1 which brings you nicely over the doubling-of-the-bank landmark.

Scoreboard:
Morgans ................. Bank 1pt, Profit 38.075
pro ......................... Bank 0pts, Profit 59.50
carbsy .................... Bank 0pts, Profit 20.58
PH01....................... Bank 0pts, Profit 45.25
Hobart .................... Bank 3pts, Profit 111.71