[Article] DART partly closed at WEEKENDS for 18 months

ixoy

I'm in shock. I just read this in the Irish Independent:

THE Dart rail network will be shut every weekend for the next year and a half.

The public is being given just four days warning of the extraordinary move which will disrupt the weekend travel plans of thousands of Dubliners and visitors to the city.

The big closure comes in two phases.

The first, starting on Saturday, involves the entire Dublin southside Dart line from Pearse Station to Greystones. It will be closed every weekend until next June at the earliest.

After that the northside and city centre Dart sections will be closed for a further nine months as part of an upgrading programme costing €176m.

The public, already reeling from Luas and the 'Mad Cow' roundabout chaos, is only being given four days notice of the massive disruption. The shutdown was approved by the board of CIE last January - but the news will only be released this morning.

Amazingly, no provision has been made for special buses to run from the closed Dart stations, as transport chiefs prepare for the Christmas gridlock.

The decision has sparked fears that the thousands of people left without weekend services will be forced back into their cars, increasing congestion around the city. Traffic problems have worsened since the contracts were signed in August but it is now too late to change them.

To do so would leave Iarnrod Eireann facing massive compensation from the contractors, it was learned.

The move is bound to cause travel problems for thousands of shoppers and workers using the Pearse-Greystones line.

Christmas shopping, the rugby internationals and the St Patrick's Day parade are among a huge number of major public and sporting events which will be hit. When the weekend shutdowns finish next June the northside Dart line will face a similar fate.

Asked why the work was not carried out on individual stations without disrupting the entire southside line, an Iarnrod Eireann spokesperson said they had to shut down the power as part of replacing overhead lines.

There was no option but to shut down the entire network, he said.

"The contractors can execute this for us and for the taxpayers most effectively by taking a large chunk of the network at a time," he added.

"There is no way you can make an omelette without breaking an egg," the spokesperson said.

The decision to opt for weekend closures was made to minimise the impact on the 90,000 peak-time passengers who use the Dart on weekdays.

The Dart is used by 50,000 people on Saturdays and 37,000 every Sunday.

The plan is to increase peak capacity on Dart by 30pc by building longer platforms capable of handling trains with more carriages.

Dublin Bus has been asked to double the number of buses operating on routes adjacent to the Dart on the southside (routes 7, 45, 46A, 59 and 84). But there will be no special buses from Dart stations and those holding Dart or commuter rail season tickets will have to go to their Dart stations to look for bus passes.

What the FCUK?! Of all the... I mean how can they..? Have they even THOUGHT the consequences through? Is there any little brain cell in their heads that will allow them project the consequences of these actions?!

I use the DART to get home every weekend. Fortunately, I can get a bus almost as directly but not everyone can. This could be adding hours on to people's journeys. And what compensation will they get from CIE? May a tanoy announcement, "We're sorry to announce that all the trains north have been cancelled [pause] due to operational problems at [pause] everywhere." Yeah, that's worth it. And no a bus pass is no compensation if you have to take two buses in place of one train journey.

CIE: bunch of incompetent twats.

And as for giving us four days notice? I spit on you, I SPIT ON YOU.
:mad: :mad:

commuterised

I heard this on the radio this morning and then checked it up online just to make sure. I can't believe they've only given 4 days notice to people who use the service at weekends. This is going to cause chaos coming up to Christmas.

I just don't understand why no-one has a brain, they are urging us to get our cars off the roads and use public transport and now they're pushing us back onto the roads.
fools

Borzoi

As Marion Finucane said this morning:
"I thought it was Aprils Fools Day"

Surely this is final proof the Iarnrod Eireann feel their job is to run a railway, and not to provide a public transport service.

Really for this piece of idiocy the board should be sacked as a group, the chief engineer replaced - preferably with the Spainiard who put the Madrid metro system in.

kamobe

I live in Blanchardstown, work in Bray, and go to college in Maynooth. The only way I can do this is using the trains. I have to work at least 20 hours a week, which means working saturdays.

If this is true, it basically means I have to quit my job, because there is no way I could make it out on time (9 on saturdays) using the busses.

dmeehan

i wasnt surprised at all...
its just typical of irish rail, nothing new here

ixoy

Originally posted by Borzoi
As Marion Finucane said this morning:
"I thought it was Aprils Fools Day"

Me too. I looked for a disclaimer at the end of the article. Something saying "CIE later admitted it was a joke". Obviously they knew they're going to slaughtered by the public, and wanted to stave off the bloodbath. And we're meant to bleedin' well sympathise with them and support their call not to broken up?! Well you've just shot your chances to hell with about 60,000-70,000 customers. Congratulations :rolleyes:

Really for this piece of idiocy the board should be sacked as a group, the chief engineer replaced - preferably with the Spainiard who put the Madrid metro system in.

Ah but we can't put the Spaniard in - he sounds competent. Would you really feel it was an Irish rail system if it was done well and within budget?
What's the betting it will run beyond 18 months, cost twice as much as predicted, and won't work properly in the end... Here's the link to them putting a positive spin on it. They spend most of the page talking about the great benefits of this work rather than focusing on how it's going to uttrely fcuk up people's plans. My favourite bit is at the end of the announcement because it's the Irishrail classic:

Iarnrod Eireann wishes to apologise to customers for the inconvenience this may cause.

Are they taking the proverbial or what?

Scruff

****s sake, it was a pain in the arse having to get off at Pearse instead of Tara Street for the last few months but this if ****ing rediculous. Why the **** cant they work from 1 am to 5am for 4 nights a week? They extra money they'd have to pay would be countered by not losing revenue at the weekends.
kuntz!

Mr E

What's the betting it will run beyond 18 months, cost twice as much as predicted, and won't work properly in the end...

Don't forget the ticket price hike by the end of it to make up for lost revenue.... :rolleyes:

- Dave.

Scruff

They're talking about it on newstalk 106 at the moment. seems they say they're working through the night during the week an all weekend from the last train friday night until the first train monday morning.

People who have monthly or yearly rail tickets will be issued with rambler tickets for the bus.

All stations to get wheelchair access.

Overhead lines need to be upgraded....

FinoBlad

I can't believe people are moaning about this, its great news.

TUTS

Whats all this Dart malarky?? Sure ye can all buy bicycles.......
ha! :rolleyes:

BuffyBot

Fair enough the work needs to be done, and people will be inconvenienced. I cannot for the life of me see why they haven't or couldn't organise a rail replacement bus service.

Walls

Do you BELIEVE this!! It's outrageous!! It is a serious inconvenience for me - for others it will be disastrous!

Kenshin

What. The. Fuck.

I'm completely dependant on the Dart, so now I can't go anywhere on weekends?

I don't think they'll be able to hold this up for long

Mr E

There are calls for all work on the lines to be suspended on the 4 weekends before xmas. Which is something, I suppose....

- Dave.

Victor

Southside DART services face disruption
From:ireland.com
Tuesday, 7th October, 2003

South Dublin and Wicklow residents face months of commuter disruption with the announcement that there will be no weekend DART services south of Pearse St station until the middle of next year.

Iarnród Éireann said last night the lines are being closed to allow for the first phase of the €176 million track and station upgrading designed to increase the capacity of DART services by 30 per cent.

The weekend service suspension begins this Saturday and the upgrading work will take place every weekend between Grand Canal Dock and Greystones until "mid-2004".

The company said improvements were needed in order "to allow DART capacity keep pace with our growing city".

Under the second phase of the work, some weekend services will be disrupted for up to 18 months. As well as the DART, the Dublin Connolly to Arklow/Rosslare service will also be affected under phase one. Extra buses will be provided to cater for commuters on all cancelled services.

Dublin Bus will double the number of buses operating on routes adjacent to the DART in south Dublin, including routes 7, 45, 46A, 59 and 84. Under the first phase of the upgrading, the maximum capacity on the DART every hour in each direction will be increased to 16,000, from 11,800 currently.

Platforms will be lengthened to facilitate eight-carriage DARTS, instead of the six-carriage trains currently in use.

The power supply network will also be upgraded in order to facilitate the bigger trains, and stations will be enlarged in order to accommodate higher passenger numbers.

All stations will have full wheelchair accessibility and a new turn-back facility will also be built at Dún Laoghaire to accommodate the larger eight-carriage trains.

Mr Peter Cuffe, DART upgrade programmer manager, said Iarnród Éireann had planned the works for weekends in order to avoid disruption to those travelling on weekdays. "We will move into the stations late on Friday nights after the last DART has gone and work around the clock through to early Monday morning so we can do a full week's work in a weekend, which is off-peak time for our DART and commuter services," he said.

The second phase of upgrading is to be completed by October 2005. An additional 40 new DART carriages are on order to coincide with the DART upgrade project, entering service in 2005. Iarnród Éireann has also ordered 80 new commuter rail cars, costing €115 million. They will service the greater Dublin area.

A €43 million rail car servicing centre to maintain this fleet is being constructed in Drogheda, and will be completed shortly.

A €117 million redevelopment of Heuston Station in Dublin is also nearing completion.

gmt

I wonder what they are going to do with the seven day tickets now since they got rid of the 10-journey tickets some months ago. I will probably end up queuing for a return ticket every morning.

DART-FART (sorry for being childish)

Victor

Title highlighted

Victor

http://home.eircom.net/content/irelandcom/breaking/1625787?view=Eircomnet

Iarnrod Eireann castigated over DART plans
From:ireland.com
Tuesday, 7th October, 2003

Iarnród Éireann has been condemned for its announcement that weekend DART users face up to 18 months of disruption as the line is upgraded.

Weekend services on the south side of the city from Grand Canal Dock to Greystones will cease this week for at least nine months. As well as the DART, the Dublin Connolly to Arklow/Rosslare service will also be affected.

Once this refurbishment is finished, work will begin on the northside line to Howth. It is expected the upgrade, which will cost €176 million, will be done by October 2005.

Dublin Bus said this afternoon it will double bus capacity on southeast Dublin routes over the weekends to facilitate DART customers. Iarnród Éireann will also supply Dublin Bus tickets for Rail Only Weekly, Monthly and Annual Ticket holders.

The Dublin City Business Association and the Small Firms Association claimed the disruption would have a huge negative effect on trade.

Mr Eoin Ryan, Fianna Fáil TD for Dublin South East and chairman of the Dáil Committee on Transport, said it was an "absolute disgrace".

He said: "The fact that the planned closure comes as a surprise to the vast majority of Dublin commuters is a clear indication that any information campaign carried out by the company was clearly inadequate."

Mr Ryan called for a transport users group to be established to prevent such "shoddy" treatment in the future.

Progressive Democrats TD for Dún Laoghaire Ms Fiona O'Malley described the row as a PR debacle for Iarnród Éireann. She said it was "an utterly contemptible way" to treat the public. "To give customers four days notice of such a dramatic suspension of service is unacceptable," she added.

Fine Gael spokesman for Dublin, Senator Brian Hayes, said commuters holding monthly or annual tickets should receive a refund.

The Labour Party's transport spokeswoman, Ms Roisín Shorthall, a Dublin North West TD, accused Iarnrod Éireann of showing "contempt" for DART users.

"Only four days notice has been given of closure of the southside line with piecemeal alternatives being put in place," she said. "Of course the upgrade . . . is welcome and overdue. But to do so in such a shoddy manner is a slap in the face to the thousands of people who regularly use the DART."

The Green Party transport spokesman and Dublin South TD, Mr Eamon Ryan, said the announcement has turned into "yet another tale of transport woe for the capital" due to the lack of notice. "The people of Dublin will accept the hardships that come with the construction of new public transport infrastructure, but only if they believe that there is a well co-ordinated plan in operation," he said.

Sinn Féin south Dublin representative Mr Daithí Doolan also criticised the length of notice given. "As a resident of Pearse Street and user of the DART I know firsthand how much this will inconvenience local people," he said. "The least we might have expected is a reasonable amount of notice."

However, Iarnród Éireann rejected the claims, insisting it had mounted a public information campaign to inform commuters of their plans.

Iarnród Éireann spokesman Mr Barry Kenny said: "We announced this work back in March when we had funding approval and obviously at that stage we were very clear that throughout the programme of works there would be closures of sections of the DART."

He also rejected concerns the work could take longer than planned. "By doing a full week's work at the weekend that's how we target it, that's how we get it done quickly and efficiently," he said.

Mr Kenny said the work will be suspended for two Saturdays in the run-up to Christmas to facilitate shoppers.

So people that go from Bray or Greystones into dun Laoghaire or town to shop/cinema/socialise etc at the weekend will have to get the bus.
Many won't bother.
A downturn in business is very likely.
Getting parking will be even more totally nightmarish than it is already.
and as for stopping the work for the two w/ends before Xmas, if people put off their shopping till then, oxygen masks will be needed in the shops.

Iarnród éireann should be re-named to adequately reflect it's bungling...
Any suggestions??

Victor

http://www.irishrail.ie/news_centre/travel_alerts.asp?action=view&news_id=87

€176m DART Upgrade begins this weekend by Media & PR
The largest investment in rail services in the Dublin area since the DART launch in 1984 begins this weekend.

The first phase of the DART Upgrade, costing €176 million, will see peak capacity on DART and commuter services through the central area (Connolly-Pearse) grow by over 30%, and will ensure that all stations currently inaccessible or partially accessible to mobility-impaired customers will be fully upgraded. The improvements are designed to allow DART capacity keep pace with our growing city, and will be completed by October 2005.

As a result, Iarnród Éireann will commence DART Upgrade works south of Pearse, between Grand Canal Dock and Greystones every Saturday and Sunday from this Saturday 11th October through to mid- 2004. No DART or Commuter services will operate at weekends during this time south of Pearse Station. Intending customers should make alternative arrangements - Dublin Bus will double the number of buses operating on routes adjacent to the DART on the Southside (Routes 7, 45, 46A, 59 and 84). Provision will also be made for weekly and monthly DART/Commuter Rail Only season ticket holders for travel on scheduled Dublin Bus services at weekends.

Furthermore, Dublin Connolly to Arklow/Rosslare services will also be affected at weekends. Bus transfers will operate on all Arklow and Rosslare services between Dublin and Greystones or Arklow, and delays of up to 40 minutes may result.

Phase 1 of DART Upgrade, to be completed by October 2005, will deliver:
· Platform extensions to facilitate the operation of 8-carriage DART and commuter trains through the entire DART area, increased from the current 6-carriage maximum
· Power supply upgrades to enable 8-carriage services to operate; replacement of overhead lines across network
· Improved station infrastructure to enable the safe and reliable accommodation of increased passenger flows
· All stations without accessibility or with limited accessibility will be fully upgraded, including new stations at Bayside and Howth Junction
· A bay platform turn-back facility at Dun Laoghaire to accommodate 8-carriage trains
· Additional sidings and storage facilities to accommodate the increased number of DART vehicles to be operated on the network

Phase 1 will see the maximum capacity for customers per hour per direction increase from 11,800 currently to 16,000.

The DART Upgrade project is driven by a need to deliver capacity in response to demand from routes feeding into the city centre area - DART, Northern commuter, Maynooth, and Arklow routes. A record 24.3 million DART and Commuter passenger journeys were made last year, up 20% in five years, with major growth forecast. Daily numbers travelling by DART have increased from 35,000 when the service began in 1984 to 90,000 today.

Lengthening of DART services from six to eight carriages will be facilitated by a separate investment of €80 million in forty new DART carriages, from Mitsui in Japan. These will enter service in 2005, to coincide with the completion of DART Upgrade.

Schedules of the DART Upgrade project on other sections of the DART network will be confirmed with contractors shortly. However, weekend services on different sections of the network are expected to be affected for approximately 18 months.

A spokesperson for Iarnród Éireann said "the DART Upgrade will deliver a dramatic increase in capacity on DART and commuter services, allowing thousands more commuters daily to escape gridlocked roads and avail of our services. We are delighted to also finally resolve all accessibility issues for our DART stations, to ensure all our customers can enjoy the benefits of our major investment programme."

On the service alterations throughout the works, the spokesperson said "we have planned these works to avoid affecting our customers on busy weekdays. We will move into the stations late on Friday nights after the last DART has gone and work around the clock through to early Monday morning so we can do a full week's work in a weekend, which is off-peak time for our DART and Commuter services."

A second phase of the DART Upgrade is planned which will involve resignalling the city centre to increase the maximum number of DART and commuter services through the central area from the current 12 trains per hour in each direction to 16tph in each direction.

Iarnrod Eireann wishes to apologise to customers for the inconvenience this may cause.

DART Upgrade is funded by the Irish Government, under the National Development Plan 2000-2006, and the European Union's European Regional Development Fund (ERDF).

Peace

Every ****er in a position in power in this country is a cu*t

Winters

WHY are Iarnróid éireann the only rail operator in Europe who believes that the key to getting more people on the trains is to extend their length insted of increasing their frequency?

This is pure stupidity. Already the DARTs are less frequent then they were in 1986. Iarnróid éireann are a pure fcuking joke. Hearld was out this evening with the front page stating that this would cost Dublin €300million. I think Iarnróid should be investigated or sued for damages. I know where I work there will be a HUGH drop off in customers due to the stopping of DARTs.

FinoBlad

dammed if you do and dammed if you don't,

pity they couldnt spend the money on customers that would appreciate the investment and put up with the inconvenience

Victor

Don't say ye weren't warned.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&threadid=88648&highlight=DASH
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&threadid=116683&highlight=DASH
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&threadid=101186&highlight=DASH

And how many silver Mercedes drivers use the DART for shopping? [/rhetorical question]

Mr Eoin Ryan, Fianna Fáil TD for Dublin South East and chairman of the Dáil Committee on Transport, said it was an "absolute disgrace".

sligoliner, time to pass around your business card.

Borzoi

While mulling over this fiasco today it occured to me, what are they going to do with the train drivers?

Given the notorious history of poor union management relations, in particular to do with rosters, are we looking at a situation where the train drivers who are rostered for w/e work will be paid for doing nothing?

Victor

Can people tone down the language please.

Originally posted by Borzoi
Given the notorious history of poor union management relations, in particular to do with rosters, are we looking at a situation where the train drivers who are rostered for w/e work will be paid for doing nothing?

Make 'em work the Northside - or give them annual leave. Either way It's a nice way to keep them away from overtime.

Originally posted by Scruff
Why ... cant they work from 1 am to 5am for 4 nights a week? They extra money they'd have to pay would be countered by not losing revenue at the weekends

1am-5am x 4 nights = 20 hours a week, allowing for set-up and clear-up times perhaps 15 productive hours.

Midnight Friday to 5am Monday = 53 hours. Allowing for set-up and clear-up times perhaps 45-50 productive hours.

ferdi

Edited and banned. Talk to me when you have a civil mouth - victor

ixoy

Knowing those unionised gits, they'll probably get paid for the routes they're not working and be given a special bonus at the end because of the trauma of getting off of work...
Naturally though there'll be a 10% fare increase to pay for all this, but I think that's fair: don't you?

Ro

Everyone that lives between Howth and Howth Junction put up with this earlier this year and I don't think there was anyone on here moaning about it. But as soon as they start on the Southside!

Considering they'll be working every night and from Friday through until Sunday there's no reason to complain. The people that are objecting probably aren't the ones standing on the platform every morning watching train after train pass them by because there's no room.

K!LL!@N

It beggars belief.
I had been told that something like this would be happening a few weeks back, but i dismissed it because it seemed so ridiculous.
I'm so pissed off about this.
I have to work weekends out in East Point and the dart was so handy for getting out there.
Now i don't know what i'm gonna do. Probably have to bus it into town and then get a dart.
Or else get a bike and cycle all the way or something like that.

Just one thing i'd be curious about.
Are the train drivers and station attendents taking a pay cut for all the days they won't be working?
I'd say it's safe to assume they aren't because if they were the whole thing wouldn't be going ahead.
The union would have none of it.

I don't think we should stand for it.
I mean, it's a public service, a state owned company paid for by tax payers and there's been no consultation process with the public.
This shìt could only happen in this country.

Killian

oneweb

Never use the Dart but I just could not believe that when I heard it on the news this morning. And at only four days notice, it's a disgrace that shows how utterly thick the transport managers are in this country.

How Irish :rolleyes:

MadKevo

As has been said already, the attitude in CIE has been to increase length of trains rather than their frequency for a number of years already.
[aside: Being in Dublin city centre stations at 5.30pm is scary when the platforms fill up - quess they don't want dead bodies on their hands when people start being pushed by lemming-like rush & crush of people - seriously...]

The reason for this seemingly illogical approach is simple: the Dublin coastal suburban system is mostly twin-line, and there are significant stretches of national single line.
So, in Dublin, commuter trains ("Arrows"), DARTs, inter-city and freight/bulk trains have to share the same tracks in the same direction.

Trains have to overtake at the limited opportunities to do so, usually in bigger startions (e.g. Pearse, Dun Laoghaire), and the timetable is geared to allowing these service to co-exist. Large margins of error are built in, leaving tracks idle where a modern signalling system would allow better utilisation - collision avoidance being a good idea - explaining the upgrade of the signalling system.

My sugegstion: build more overtaking points. This won't be easy, but it will be far less disuptive to the train system and can be done 24 hours a day (ha ha), not just at the weekend, as the power lines can be independently built and interconnected in the middle of the night, as can the tracks with points cut in when finished. The big issue is finding the space but I think it can be done if a there is a polotical willingness to really improve the system. Costs should be about the same either way.

Another practical suggestion: buy carriages with more then 2 doors per side - have the buyers never been on a suburban train elsewhere - they work so much better when there are 3 or 4 sets of doors per side/carriage. Quicker to fill/empty = less time at the station.

Ticket machines, put loads fo them everywhere* - get rid of 19th century queues at ticket desks. Retrain ticket sellers to be the drivers for the new train engines.

Integrated ticketing - getting to be a joke at this point. They are still the same company = CIE, despite marketing to the contrary.

* not used the DART in a while, assume it's still the same in the city centre with queues out the door at peak-times...

2c
Kev, Mad.

Kenshin

What about using Diesel trains while the power grid is turned off?
Also, can someone provide a few email addresses of people up there we can complain to?

oneweb

...and the train that fell through the bridge earlier :eek: news

Victor

Originally posted by Kenshin
What about using Diesel trains while the power grid is turned off?

It's just about possible, but if they have people working on the railway it's unlikely (too dangerous). I'm not sure what they are doing for InterCity passengers from Wexford.

Originally posted by oneweb
...and the train that fell through the bridge earlier :eek: news

So do you want them to neglect maintenance and repair then?

Originally posted by Kenshin
Also, can someone provide a few email addresses of people up there we can complain to?

browse http://www.irishrail.ie/home/

Further Information:
DASH Community Relations Unit Hotline (01) 888 7 999
dash@irishrail.ie or view this website which will be updated regularly. This web page can be easily accessed using the address www.irishrail.ie/dash

John R

What a bunch of selfish moaning gits.
How dare IE try to improve the dart service if it inconveniences any of you at all. I suppose it has to be the unions fault, why should those drivers be paid at all, they should be grateful for the opportunity to ferry all of you about.

Temporary closures are the only way to get major engineering work done, every railway company in the world has to do this, not just Irish Rail. Here is a list of UK rail disruptions, note the amount of weekend closures http://www.serco-online.com/html/engineering/engineering_ext.htm

Weekends are the best option as there is a much lower demand and more availability of replacement resources.

Dublin Bus will double the number of buses operating on routes adjacent to the DART in south Dublin, including routes 7, 45, 46A, 59 and 84.

Anyone who suggests that the idea of increasing train lengths is a strange IE concept is just wrong, commuter trains in most european cities are between 8 and 16 car trains, it is more efficent to run longer trains than more trains. (less of those horrible unionised drivers to pay for a start)

Power upgrades required for longer trains would also be needed for more trains. 10 4car trains use the same amount of power as 5 8car trains.

Running diesel trains instead is not an option as that would require the lines and stations to be kept clear, a bit of a problem when they are working on them

Victor

Originally posted by John R
Power upgrades required for longer trains would also be needed for more trains. 10 4car trains use the same amount of power as 5 8car trains.

Actually they use more, due to air and track resistance.

ixoy

Originally posted by John R
What a bunch of selfish moaning gits.
How dare IE try to improve the dart service if it inconveniences any of you at all. I suppose it has to be the unions fault, why should those drivers be paid at all, they should be grateful for the opportunity to ferry all of you about.

How often do you use the DART? Seriously? Does this impact on your life? Because if you did I'd imagine you'd sing a different tune. If you had to increase your journey time by about an hour each journey now, would you be so accomodating?

As for the drivers - you're missing the damn point. People are wondering if they're going to be paid for all those hours that they can't drive. They're not working, so why should they be paid? It'd never happen in the private sector.

MadsL

I would mind this so much...

....(although I'm now commuting West instead of South thank God!)

IF, and it is a BIG IF...we got 24/7 DART service when it came back, yes 24hours a day 7 days a week. This is a CAPITAL city remember.

IF IE didn't strangely think that the rush 'hour' ended at 5.55, and put on some more frequent trains to serve those who work past 4.55pm

IF an honesty-based (ie no Qs) inspected, integrated ticket system with LUAS & Dublin Bus was introduced,

IF there were security patrols that dealt with drinking, smoking & anti-social behaviour,

IF there were decent west-east feeder bus routes, serving the new big office locations instead of just routing into town,

IF every single station had decent facilities - look at Grand Canal Dock - brand newish - no toilet, no phone, crap shop, wet floor all the time.

IF all of this then maybe I would forgive IE.

embraer170

Outrageous!

There is no lack of foreign examples, where companies do things properly.

In Switzerland, a 13.5km 3rd track is being built between Geneva and Coppet (on the Lausanne mainline, handling 230 trains a day) causing only minimal disruption: the last regio train is replaced by a bus on certain nights. Work includes enlargement of the trackbed, lengthening of the platforms, extension of the underpasses, rebuilding of the stations, and of course the application of the railway fittings such as signalling..

Winters

Originally posted by MadsL
IF an honesty-based (ie no Qs) inspected, integrated ticket system with LUAS & Dublin Bus was introduced,

Is there not a government sponsored initive on the intregated ticiketing system already underway? I remember reading that DublinBus are spending €8million on upgrading the ticket machines on their 1,100 busses as part of aintregated ticked system being sponsored by the government.

And, you cannot expect all that from IE. For sure, they will never listen to reason but love to make outragous and silly plans.

Bee

Dublin City Councils (let me mis quote the Mikado! "I am the very model of a model civil servant")Mr. Owen Keegans dynamic management response to suggestions of an easing up on car restrictions at Dart closure weekends was " people should use the bus, cycle or walk"

As if this was actually feasible for the majority of Dart users :rolleyes:

Anyone got the survey? albeit an old one that showed that the majority of Dart users are just Dart users as other modes were neither practical or feasible.

With this further example of a lack of any positive response by the Traffic Dept. it is about time we had an elected traffic supremo whose renumeration would be based on results rather than time serving.

At the least we should have Operation Freeflow and scrap the bus lanes as they do not have the capacity to carry the Dart overflow at weekends.

Bee

jd

whatever about the stupidity of the dart disruption, it makes the wexford/rosslare line pretty useless for weekend travel. IR have said they intend to increase service to 4 departures each way in 2004. Perhaps theys should introduce an early bird on monday if disruption goes ahad, current service is useless if you need to get to work at a reasonable hour on Monday.

John R

Originally posted by ixoy
How often do you use the DART? Seriously? Does this impact on your life? Because if you did I'd imagine you'd sing a different tune. If you had to increase your journey time by about an hour each journey now, would you be so accomodating?

In order; At least 6 return journeys per week. Yes. Yes. No I am not singing a different tune, it will take me at least 40mins longer to get into the city centre during this disruption. Not using the DART means that I will have to get 2 buses just to get in and out of the city centre. I also have to use the service in the weekday rush and I am very accomodating of this inconvenience if it means less overcrowding for the future.
I am far less accomodating to the selfish fukkers who clog the entire city every day with their cars, without these mostly unnecessary car journeys the bus service wouldn't be such a lousy alternative to the DART.

As for the drivers - you're missing the damn point. People are wondering if they're going to be paid for all those hours that they can't drive. They're not working, so why should they be paid? It'd never happen in the private sector. [/B]

No I am not missing the damn point, the only point made was you using this as an excuse to have a go at public sector unions, you have shown no evidence of plans to pay drivers not to work.


And before you ask, no i do not, nor have I ever worked for Irish Rail, the unions or any public sector organisation.

MadsL

you have shown no evidence of plans to pay drivers not to work

Think about it.

Why is there no 24/7 dart service - the unions.

Why are there one day strikes every time any extra driver recruitment/training is on the horizon - the unions.

Why are so many trains cancelled to staff shortages - the unions protecting drivers rights not to show up for work.

Do you honestly think that the unions will allow drivers to be out pocket or even inconvenienced by these plans. Notice the unions are yet to make any statement or complaint.

vinnyfitz

There are 2 separate stories here.

Firstly, Iish Rail handled the announcement a bit badlly and so they are being beaten up by politicians, IBEC etc who are grandstanding and taking really cheap shots (I bet they were told in advance and did not pay any attention). Also RTE and other media are spinning for sensationalism. Its a cheap story and Irish rail are an easy target. OK so Irish rail should have put up osters in the stations 2 weeks ago but that is the begining and end of the story.


Secondly, the work needs to be done. So is this the right way to do it? On balance the discussion here seems to say yes. Inconvenience week end users on the south side for 9 months then inconvenience the users on the north side for 9 months. The debate now should be - how many relief buses? How much slower will they be?
Will they visit all stations? How many Xmas shoppers used the DART on Sundays last December? Should the N11 QBC also be bus dedicated on Sundays to speed up trips? How long will be dleays for travellers to Arklow and beyond? Does it really make sense to put people back on the train in Arklow to ramble down to Gorey Wexford and Rosslare?

Victor why don't you email Barry Kenny their PRO and invite him to participate here? He just might you know... He apologised for how the announcement was handled on the radio this morning.

BTW DART users - remember those of us who depend on bus routes may secretly be pleased you have to experience a bit of what we get all the time. I found it hard to shed a tear for all those people vox popped on the radio yesterday.

NIBBS

JohnR,

there are different issues here - first off the Unions, the Unions involved with the whole CIE organisation are a joke, and yes drivers in IE have been getting paid for not working for years and no number of letters of complaint about shortage of drivers has ever made a difference because the Unions have made the whole thing a closed shop - it appears to be opening up a little more now, but the they are very well paid for what they do, and there is no doubt that they will continue to be paid their normal pay during this disruption - the only people that ever loose out are the commuters.......

secondly I wouldn't mind the inconvenience if I believed that there would be any benefits at the end of two years of apparent improvement - but there won't be, they've been improving stations and extending stations for the past three years as it is - why wasn't some of this work done in tandem with that ??????
when the work is completed there will be a 30% increase in capacity on the line - great, but in two years time there will be an increase of around 50% in the number of people wanting to use the service with the number of developments in the areas towards the ends of the lines, I live in Baldoyle and the longer this takes the worse things will be, of course it was an 18 month job yesterday and now its 24 months, by the end of the week it will be a three year job and are they doing this to increase the capacity of todays commuters or future commuters - no point making any improvements unless they can carry the estimated number of people that will use the service in 3-5 years time.......planning has never been their strong point, I'm not complaining for the sake of it, I'm just looking at the plain simple facts, the stations were supposed to have been extended in the Millenium year, this is still not completed and the service is continually getting worse year on year, I don't believe they will make any improvements, you will just be on a bigger train with more people........

and making comparisons between our Dart system and a rail system in the UK is stupid, in most countries this sort of work (especially if it will be carried out during the week at night) would all be carried out through the night..........

I'd like to be proved wrong but I can't see the benefits here !!!!

Scruff

Originally posted by MadsL
Do you honestly think that the unions will allow drivers to be out pocket or even inconvenienced by these plans. Notice the unions are yet to make any statement or complaint.

According to yer wan from IE talking on Newstalk 106 yesterday afternoon all staff will complete their currently rostered hours during the upgrade. She didnt say doing what when pressed. Just said that any staff rostered to work weekends will work weekends.

I take work to mean they will clock in. sit around drinking tea and reading the news paper cause they're unionised and god forbid that they do anything else except sit on their arse and drive trains of sit on their arse and sell\check tickets. Clock out.

Did ye get those flyers that they are hading out today? how nice of them. 3 days before the start of the work. Such knobs.

I for one wont be too inconvienced, theres a 7 and 45 bus stop just 10 mins walk away. If however i have to work weekends i'll have to get a taxi cause i work in Dalkey and the bus service to there is basically non existant since they got rid of the number 8.

I cant beleive they are so stupid that they havent put on bus services from the stations to town. Taking dalkey for example, there is one bus (7d) into town at 7:35 and one out again at 17:40. Even quadroupling this will mean only 4 buses a day to make up for the 50+ darts that stop there. Other than that there is the 59 bus service that goes to\from Dun laoghaire once an hour where you'd have to get another bus.
I'm sure its the same story up and down the dart line.

Ridiculous.

kamobe

In Switzerland, a 13.5km 3rd track is being built between Geneva and Coppet (on the Lausanne mainline, handling 230 trains a day) causing only minimal disruption: the last regio train is replaced by a bus on certain nights. Work includes enlargement of the trackbed, lengthening of the platforms, extension of the underpasses, rebuilding of the stations, and of course the application of the railway fittings such as signalling..

If they can do it, why can't we? We'll sit here and bark about it, yet on Saturday those lazy sh1theads are still gonna screw over half the city on weekends. The above example shows that the lines DO NOT have to be shut down, it's just a cheaper (well, on paper it appears cheaper, but I'm sure by June we'll have paid more than the Swiss) way to upgrade, bearing no regard for the people who have to use it.

As I said earlier, it is now impossible for me to make work (Blanchardstown - Bray) for start of work on Saturday morning - 9.00am.

Thanks IE.

Winters

From Breakingnews.ie

DART work is put on hold
08/10/2003 - 1:43:11 pm

The Taoiseach has confirmed that work on the upgrading of the DART line between Dublin and Greystones will be put on hold during the month of December.

Bertie Ahern told the Dáil that Transport Minister Seamus Brennan discussed the matter with the chairman of CIE, arising out of public anger, after it was announced that works on the line would get underway this weekend.

The Taoiseach said work would resume after Christmas, when passenger numbers are low.